MovieChat Forums > Heist (2001) Discussion > most overused words in the script

most overused words in the script

posted 18 years ago by HellBoy13
31 replies | jump to latest

*beep*
*beep*
'Burnt'
'Lame'

I understand that Mamet has a lot of fans, and he's obviously successful. I even enjoyed The Spanish Prisoner, but that was probably because the plot is closer to being a play, and it's believable that characters can remain erudite and calm.

I've seen parts of Heist previously, and I enjoyed the movie, but now, seeing the movie again in its entirety, I found myself cringing at the stilted dialogue and wondering if the characters were trying to convince each other that they were hip to thief-speak. I found it unconvincing that a criminal would not have more than one adjective to describe the unenviable predicament of being 'burnt'.

Mamet doesn't write in iambic pentameter, so can someone explain to an outsider if there is some formula to which he adheres when he writes his dialogue? And please, please refrain from attempting to ridicule my love of action films and comedies starring Rob Schneider, or for that matter, any other entertainments I may enjoy that are irrelevant to this genre. Please make no guess of my age, laugh at my user name, nor make derogatory remarks regarding the film that inspired my tagline. I am in no way criticizing anyone's way of life or choice of fandom. I'm actually curious about Mamet films and am wondering if it's worth it to seek out his other films.

"What do we do now?"
"Enjoy it..."

[–] SlowRain 18 years ago

Mamet often uses extreme repetition in his movies, but that is intentional and not stilted. Mamet feels that people don't really pay attention to themselves when they talk, and that the dialogue in Hollywood movies is too contrived. We think it sounds strange because every movie (and novel, for that matter) tries to avoid using the same word more than once. Mamet says that's not how we really talk, that we don't care if we used the same word a few minutes ago. I think he overdoes it, but you must admit it gives his movies a very surreal feel. In The Spanish Prisoner he says "the process"; in Heist he says "the gold", "the Swiss thing", and "cute as a..."; in Spartan he says "the girl".

His dialogue is very creative, whereas most other screenwriters don't put that much effort into what they write. If you can't get past the dialogue, you'll never enjoy a Mamet movie. However, his writing isn't difficult at all to understand, as some people on these boards keep complaining endlessly about.

The only second chance you get is to make the same mistake twice. - David Mamet

[–] zxcv-9 18 years ago

Incredible! Mamet thinks dialogue in Hollywood movies is contrived. Pot. Kettle. Black.

[–] docjtg36 17 years ago

ha ha ha...that just made my day. Thank you.

[–] defiant-10 17 years ago

"The thing"
"That other thing"
"Chinese [insert]"

What I had in mind was boxing the compass.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] DavidSist 17 years ago

The "...sheep count *him*" line is brilliant. It's a play on the old "count sheep to help you fall asleep" old wive's tale, a way of explaining that *nothing* phases Joe, nothing rattles him. And it's every bit as brilliant as Blake's dialog in "Glengarry..." or Scott telling Jackie Black, "Don't you teach 'em knife fighting. Teach 'em to kill. That way, they meet some sonofabitch who studied knife fighting, they send his soul to hell."

It's the cadence with Mamet, and either you love it or hate it, but it's the way the man writes. In a way, he writes the way an ordinary man speaks when he wants to sound profound. It's the repetition, the cadence, the odd placement of common words ("You be the go-getter," "Cute as a pail full of kittens") that makes Mamet work for those of us for whom he works.

And it's choosing the right actor (well, maybe not Rebecca Pidgeon, but the rest of the cast) to fit the dialog.

"Everything you do is evil for somebody." - Joseph Cambbell

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] HellBoy13 15 years ago

I also am not oblivious to the old practice of counting sheep to sleep, like counting ceiling tiles.

The quote about being cool still doesn't make sense. I get the sheep thing, but not the cool thing.

THIS is what makes sense to me:
"My man is so BORING that sheep count *him* to go to sleep."

'Boring' works. 'Cool'? Not so much. If you understand it please explain it to me.

[–] kings21416135524 13 years ago

This is like a year late, but when he says "cool" he doesn't mean it as in "Oh, I wanna be just like Michael Jordan when I grow up, he's so cool!" He means cool as in calm, and at ease. Much like you would be when you're asleep. Some people use counting of sheep to help them go to sleep, or to "cool" down. So, we have that Joe is SO COOL(calm, that is to say), that when he goes to sleep, the thing that normal people count to cool down, counts him, out of respect for his calmness. BOOM! Explained the *beep* outta that *beep* Oh yeah!

[–] pauljfrain 15 years ago

i loved that sheep line....i wouldve just said "dont sweat it, hes cool" but thats me

This Bellini is starting to look like a real Kapuchnik.

[–] jon-gwynne 12 years ago

No. What's he's doing is turning the old saying around. Everyone counts sheep... Joe is so cool that sheep count him.

It is like the other like "Why did the chicken cross the road? Because the road crossed the chicken!"

Mamet likes to change things around.

The use of wit in this sense... changing the meaning of something and forcing the listener to think about it is an act of aggression on the part of the speaker. One could argue that it is an act of aggression by Mamet against his audience and that's why so many people react negatively to his dialog.

Think about why some people don't like Shakespeare... they have to think about what the characters are saying instead of just listening to it.

[–] Prismark10 11 years ago

Thats not far off from those Chuck Norris jokes!

Chuck got bitten by a viper, after 5 days of agony the snake died.

Its that man again!!

[–] bob-deniro 17 years ago

I disagree with the whole 'love him or hate him" attitude. Personally, I consider some of the films that David Mamet has written to be exceptional, particularly Glengarry Glen Ross, The Untouchables and Wag The Dog. Others I have found to be very enjoyable, including Ronin, State And Main and The Verdict. Some have been merely average, such as Hannibal, and indeed, Heist. The dialogue in a lot of his films is quite wonderful, but alas, not here. It's poorly written, clumsy and very irritating, which is a shame as it spoils what could have been quite a good film. Hackman is typically solid, and probably has the best lines. But for the most part, it's quite excruciating, especially with Rebecca Pidgeon and Ricky Jay reeling off a whole host of corny one-liners at every opportunity. At frequent points during the film I just became exasperated and annoyed with it all. Mamet can do so much better than this.

"I'm drownin' here and you're describing the water!"

[–] Holdaro 17 years ago

f ** k
Including alterations to the word

Stan: Oh My God Our Parents Are So Stupid Dude

[–] Mr_fizzlepop 17 years ago

Well, the most used phrase I can think of for that is "Made"

You been Made.

I do agree that the word burnt was over used.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] carl_must_die9 17 years ago

i cant believe someone needed that explained to them.

yes i can.

[–] mittenz-1 16 years ago

I was in a creative fiction class in college, and someone wrote a short story (about criminals) where the people spoke like the characters in this movie. Way, way overdone. For instance, one of the characters' nickname was Cucumber. You know - because he was COOL in tough situations. Cool as a cucumber! Hurr, hurr!

I thought it was lame then, and I think it's lame now. It's beatnik CRAP. Are you hip to my jive?

[–] lukezilla-1 17 years ago

I didn't think "burnt" was overused. If you were used to using it, it wouldn't stick out. To them it wasn't slang.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] ghostdog2041 17 years ago

That's his thing. In Spartan, it was, "Where's the girl?" and "Don't smoke in the dessert."
Personally, Mamet makes me feel stupid. Like I've missed something. I have no idea what the characters are talking about. Without visuals, like just in script form, I would be as lost as the oldest brother after Party of Five.
That was my Mametism for the day.

[–] r3volut1on 17 years ago

and that's what i love about mamet, he writes in the periphery. it's like all the denouement is hidden in the shadows, at the edge of your vision. the characters know what's going on, they know what they're talking about, it's up to us to glean it from the conversation.

Tiocfaidh ar la.

[–] JimmyConway2 16 years ago

the word "job" must have been used at least 200 times..."The job was the job in the job and out the job job job job is the job and isn't the job when the job is not the job but will be the job sooner or later" ok this is an exaduration but not as much as you would think.

[–] RoundTheTwist 16 years ago

Saw the film for the first time last night and I thought the overused words was really annoying.

All the ones mentioned were starting to grate after a short time.

The sheep line was funny though. I did wonder whether it had been plucked from the Chuck Norris emails that fly around though.

[–] popebambi 16 years ago

People are fixating on "Mamet's Line" about the sheep...

...The point is that it's not "Mamet's Line" as such, it's SUPPOSED to be what the not-too-bright gang-member Ricky Jay character says, under stress, when he near-panics about Jimmy Silk compromising the whole situation with the State Trooper ~ so, when Jimmy asks if the Hackman character, Joe Moore, is "cool" dealing with the cop, Pinky just says the first thing that comes into his head to prevent Jimmy from screwing up.

End of discussion.

*

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] jeff82072 15 years ago

The sheep thing makes sense one who is tense and cannot go to sleep would count sheep to calm himself down and doze off thus cool makes sense. An adjective does not always have one meaning (I do not mean that as sarcastically as it sounds.) I think you are reading too much in the dialog unless you have been a thief yourself how can you tell if continuing to call the lame a lame isn't exactly how a thief would speak in that setting. I found a good movie with actors I do not even normally like giving good performances and plot twists even when you think you have it figured out. But I do not blame you for questioning I do the same thing myself often with movies.

[–] HellBoy13 15 years ago

I find sheep irritating, not calming at all. Calm to me is palm trees swaying in the breeze, not a crowded herd of live animals. Explain away to those of us who don't get it, it still doesn't work, literally, figuratively, visually, or otherwise. I don't buy that the sheep line is intentionally lame, a panicked excuse to cover up by one of the characters. I think it's just unintentionally lame.

As for overused terms, when my friends start to overuse a term, I make fun of them until they stop, because repetition not only shows a lack of imagination, it's darned annoying to listen to, in a movie or in real life.

Imagine having fried chicken for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, for a month. Don't try to argue that people repeat meals without noticing. The people *I* know go out of their way to change up their routine. "I had chicken yesterday, let's do something else for lunch." I hear that all the time.

It's not that I don't like anything Mamet did. There are certain movies mentioned in this thread that I didn't know about, but that I thoroughly enjoyed. You can't change the fact that some of us find repetition in dialogue stilted. You who do can find the dialogue 'cool' and 'inventive'. I will continue to find it 'lame' and 'annoying', although I did enjoy other parts of the movie. Let's just agree to disagree. I'll just move on to watch some of his better work.

End of discussion? ha ha...I doubt it...

[–] HomerDPoe 15 years ago

The worst Mamet repeats are in "Glengary Glenross"
The same few swear words used many dozen times in the timeshare boiler room scenes.