Made Me Cry!!! - The Grey Zone (2001) Discussion

[–] johnbutt 17 years ago

This was a common occurance during the Holocaust. It's a truly shocking outright despicable thing. I'll openly admit it, that part brought some tears to my eye as well, and again at the end when everyone was facedown getting executed.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] mr_interlocutor 17 years ago

Thank G-d, or perhap T-m Nelson, that we can have our catharsis and eat it, too! I mean, that's what the Holocaust is all about, right? A good cry?

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[–] BasqueNYC 16 years ago

so sad it was such brutality they say "never again" but it has happened again with other races and religons and will again a sad world we live to kill someone cause there different

"never again"

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[–] HLB1 16 years ago

It doesn't even happen because people are different. Research Pol Pot in Cambodia or Stalin in Russia who killed their own kind. How these beasts come to power is a mystery.

Go ahead, make my day....

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[–] myk-harwood 16 years ago

I didn't cry, but I swear, I didn't speak for almost two days after watching this. The best word to describe how I felt would be "haunted."

--Myk

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[–] brandon_rss18 16 years ago

As somewhat of a World War II historian, yes this was sad, one of the most dispicable times, I believe, in known human history. One thing about all of the Holocaust films though is they all show the Jews being gassed, and yes this did happen but not actually until 1944. The chemical used was known as Zyklon-B. This chemical was originally created for the use of a farming pesticide. When they tried to use it they realized that it was making the farm animals and local wildlife sick or possibly killing them. Most of the victims passed on either from malnutrition, disease, lyme disease, shooting, etc. The "mass killings" of the gas chamber was used as a last attempt to get rid of the "evidence" before the eastern threat (Russia) reached the camps, finding out what had happened and what was going on. This obviously failed and the truth was found. To get a real idea of the pain these people went through, I suggest visiting a Holocaust Museum. The one here in Houston is really great, they often have real survivors come in and tell their stories free of charge. I often urge people to visit with the elderly, weather they be a Jew from the Holocaust, a soldier who was fighting, or just a lady at home with a victory garden waiting for her loved one to return, before it is too late. There will always be books and videos but to talk to someone who was there, is the most interesting thing you would want to hear. If you have any questions involving the history of the Holocaust or the Second World War, feel free to contact me. [email protected]

Thank you and God Bless,
Brandon Sivek

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[–] Thurisaz314159 16 years ago

I mean no disrespect to brandon_rss18 and I agree with his description of the Holocaust as one of the most despicable times in human history, but I have to disagree with his description of the gas chambers. Zyklon-B was a pesticide, invented by a group of scientists led by Fritz Haber (one of the fathers of chemical warfare and a Jew who fled Germany after Hitler's ascension to power. Zyklon-B hydrogen cyanide gas was only used at Auschwitz and Lublin-Majdanek (not to discount the huge death toll at those camps). All the others used carbon-monoxide. The first gas chambers were built in the late 1930s during the "T-4 Aktion" euthanasia in which nearly 100,000 mentally and physically handicapped people were murdered in Germany. The "shower" ruse was also perfected during this time. During the war, large numbers of Jews were executed by Einsatzkommando firing squads, and high Nazi officials sought a method that was not as traumatizing to the murderers. The first gas chambers for this purpose were constructed in 1940-1 when the Germans were still advancing. Several books written by survivors describe the operation of these chambers during the early 1940s. I will have to check out the Houston Holocaust Museum. I've lived here nearly all my life and never been. Is it as good as the one in Washington, D.C.?

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[–] SteveResin 16 years ago

The "mass killings" of the gas chamber was used as a last attempt to get rid of the "evidence" before the eastern threat (Russia) reached the camps

Sorry but I have to disagree with your statement. And this isn't a personal attack so please let's try to avoid a drawn out "internet fight" over it.
The use of zyklon B and mass extermination certainly wasn't to "get rid of evidence". It was a thought out and highly organised plan to exterminate an entire race of people, chiefly the Jews of Europe. The Nazi's wanted every last jew in Europe destroyed and had started working out ways of disposing of them as far back as 1941. I'm confused by your statement, you seem to study the holocaust so why do you imagine the acceleration of murder at the end of 1944 was to cover crimes? It was accelerating because Hitler and Himmler knew the war was lost but were intent on finishing their mission of genocide. Hitler called WWII a "racial war of annihilation". The fate of the jews was sealed the day he came into power.

"Attack Dickie! Attack!!!"

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[–] yeah_sure 15 years ago

Do bear in mind, however, that NO ACTUAL PROOF of any gas chamber was found, just constructions built by the Soviets. All death camps tours, display these Soviet-built constructions, but no tour guide will tell you this. They act as if these manufactured "proofs" are in fact the real thing.

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[–] couzijn 15 years ago

Ah! I see the holocaust deniers are still alive, kicking, and prepared to continue spreading their lies and innuendo. You could waste a lifetime doing that. Have fun.

The rest of us have better things to do.

Michel Couzijn

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[–] yeah_sure 15 years ago

Yeah, couzijn, at least the ones that still havent been ARRESTED for DEBATING the holocaust. Because thats what happens to you in some "free" countries, you know. So much for freedom of speech...

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[–] bayowolf 15 years ago

Well, fortunately, they're not killing the idiots. The Nazis were also killing idiots (whom they would call die Bloede) faster than they were killing Jews.

~~Bayowolf
If we die... it will be for GLORY, not gold.

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[–] myk-harwood 15 years ago

The one at Majdanek wan't built by the Soviets.
As far as I'm aware, they never touched that one - that's the one that is *STILL* stained blue by the ZyklonB by the way...

--Myk

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[–] lufts 15 years ago

Sorry but you are incorrect. The gassings of Polish POW's started as early as late 1939, early 1940. It began by putting them into trucks and piping in the exhaust fumes. This was the original purpose of Auschwitz. Later, Russian POW's were added to the mix.

There is an outstanding documentary called simply "Auschwitz" which shows the horrific Nazi films taken to document the improving methodology. as they perfected their "technique".

In addition, the mass killing began far earlier. The gas chambers were as much because the use of bullets became too expensive.

Before the crematoria the Jews were simply lined up and shot and buried in mass graves. Later, when the ovens were built, they were exhumed and burned to try and hide the crimes.

There were tremendous outbreaks of typhus and of course, deaths from starvation, but the numbers of each cannot be confirmed.

In fact, if you believe the Wetzler-Verba report (two Hungarian Jews who were assigned to the "bookeeping" department who escaped back to Hungary in late 1944 and dictated the first generally accepted account of the killings at Aushwitz/Birkenau), the numbers killed was actually much higher.

There is some credibility to this as Verba, who became a professor of pharmacology in Canada, had a photographic memory.

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[–] yeah_sure 14 years ago

Sorry, but I dunno if you're joking, or trying to sound serious. In the second case, what are your sources? Your high school teacher, some Spielberg movie, or that "outstanding Auschwitz documentary" you've seen?

And WHO financed and produced that unquestionable source of truth? Probably some money controlled by jews was involved, but you find that natural, right? Like you would find normal, neo-nazis producing "documentaries" about Hitler, and WWII... of course they're all unbiased. Right?

«The bullets became too expensive»... Yeah, its much cheaper to build death camps, with trains, guards, gas chambers, endless fuel, and crematoria, than bullets. Sounds completely logical.

I do hope you're joking.

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[–] mycroftson 14 years ago

It is true that lufts has attached various bits of information (correct in thier own rights) to each other to create some incorrect conclusions, but you do exactly the same:

for example they would have needed to invest in the crematoria and the fuel for them whether they used bullets or whether they used gas.

If lufts had watched the documentary more closely he/she would have realised that they switched from bullets to gassing for a reason entirely divorced from the financial cost of bullets.

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[–] yeah_sure 14 years ago

«lufts has attached various bits of information (correct in thier own rights)»

Like what? Let me guess:

- «The gassings of Polish POW's started as early as late 1939, early 1940?» (hey, why not late 1937, early 1938? That would be even more extreme)

- «There is an outstanding documentary called simply "Auschwitz" which shows the horrific Nazi films»?

- «Later the ovens were built, they were exhumed and burned to try to hide the crimes» (so after burying so many victims, the evil germans thought: this is a dead giveaway, lets build some large crematoria, dig up the corpses, and burn them... after all, we have plenty of time on our hands, its not like we're in a war or something... and lets leave plenty of jewish "witnesses" behind)??

- «There were tremendous outbreaks of typhus and of course, deaths from starvation, but the numbers of each cannot be confirmed» - they CAN be confirmed, there are records from the german camps! - maybe they just dont "CONFIRM" the official "holocaust" version?

- «There is some credibility to this as Verba, who became a professor of pharmacology in Canada, had a photographic memory»... I cant argue with that, the "photographic memory" of Prof. Verba is indeed the last word on ANY subject.

So are you defending lufts "arguments", or not? If not, then why say they are «correct in thier own rights»? Maybe because they fit your "holocaust" view, that no logical argument can support?

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[–] mycroftson 14 years ago

not

i will reply to lufts' post to answer that

i will try to make it clearer: lufts has some correct information «correct in thier own rights» as i put it, but leads to false conclusions and arguments from this information in exactly the same way that you do.

One easy example of this is the use of records:

"they CAN be confirmed, there are records from the german camps! - maybe they just dont "CONFIRM" the official "holocaust" version?"

because you have used what you consider to be accurate information to justify your position in challenging the Holocaust.

the records in the camps only inculude those who were registered at the camps, not those who either died in transit or those too ill to be processed, the numbers though being taken on embarkation (and in some cases the names also). Auschwitz would not have needed as many krematoria for only a few thousand inmates over a four and a half year period.

- «Later the ovens were built, they were exhumed and burned to try to hide the crimes» (so after burying so many victims, the evil germans thought: this is a dead giveaway, lets build some large crematoria, dig up the corpses, and burn them... after all, we have plenty of time on our hands, its not like we're in a war or something... and lets leave plenty of jewish "witnesses" behind)??

I'm not sure what you want to say here, the digging was done by inmates, with only two German guards to up to a hundred prisoners.
The point that you should have latched onto (and as you didn't i suspect that you don't know anything about the subject) is that these corpses were not burned in the ovens, but in pits.

yeah sure, i have no problem with you rubishing the claims of people who have heard a story about the Holocaust and believe it to be true and are so outraged that they want to spread it, but i do disaprove when you then go on some crazy conspiracy theory driven crusade that is all white and black where you have all of the right answers, this would be an impossibility even if you were well informed. As such i do attempt to point out when these misconceptions occour.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bayowolf 14 years ago

When I step on a cockroach, I don't ask it its name. Same with the Nazis: Once the individual (who was a "cockroach" in the Nazis' opinion) is "in the system", the Nazis didn't give a tinker's damn about how the individual died. The only reason the Nazis collected names in the first place was to be sure the area was "Judenfrei".

~~Bayowolf
I see the fnords!!

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[–] lacedemonians 14 years ago

Uh huh. And where if the "proof" for your interesting theories?

"The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." - A.E. Van Vogt

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[–] faista-1 11 years ago

I didn't cry, but some scenes made me cringe...

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[–] unisol26 16 years ago

The final scene of the remaining survivors lying down just talking about normal life is really what pulled the tears out of me. Especially David Arquette's simple, shaking "Bye."
If anything that scene showed the destruction of their self-worth of feeling like a living being, how beaten and destroyed the characters had become. Almost as if the uprising were not for the chance to live, but more for the idea of futile attempts to stop a mammoth machine, or simple vindication.
A lot of the acting felt introverted, as characters were displaying extreme signs of the loss to continue living, but yet never being able to succumb to the idea of death.

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[–] avalonflyer 16 years ago

I'm with you on the emotion of that scene. i think because it's just so normal. 2 friends chatting about their lives like two guys in a line at Starbucks. the first time i saw it i was hoping for something fantastic to happen... but in the end it was not to be.

an interesting point is that the sonderkommandos at the time were actually less fatalistic than this film suggests. many adopted a "You must live to tell" coda and some even had regular prayer and torah sessions when they weren't on duty. you can see how they rejected the widely believed approach of "Eat and drink well tonight cos tomorrow we die" attitude.
i think that's probably the only real aspect of the film that's slightly false.
but it makes for a better movie though.

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[–] Vallontina 16 years ago

I'm glad I didn't see the entire movie because I know I would have had nightmares for weeks. I remember seeing actual Holocost footage in history class in high school. It truly traumatized me and for that reason I avoid movies like this one and Shindlers List. I was flipping channels today and caught the last 10 minutes which was traumatizing enough. How sick these Nazi's were to murder innocent people. Once depraved mans concept followed blindly by his underlings. Some willingly and some because it was the only way for them to survive. Why didn't someone just put a bullet in his brain?

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[–] gugrad94 16 years ago

I saw this movie today. I'll never watch it again. However, I think every man, woman and child, no matter was ethic, racial or religious group should see this. It was a tremendous movie as well as disturbing. I can't get out of my head the way those Nazi Fu_ks shot those women in the head and then systemically killed the men laying down. The sound of the guns actually gave me a headache and left me trembling.

And that little girl, they let her run and then killed her like she was nothing.

Armistad is another movie I saw once and can't watch again. The suffering in that movie, different, but heartbreaking as well.

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[–] cdjunkee-1 16 years ago

Another poster said they felt "haunted" while watching the movie. that pretty much sums up my feelings about it. I'll admit I cried a river when the two men were talking as others around them were being shot knowing they'd soon be next. my heart dropped when the young girl was shot. the final voiceover of the film was absolutely chilling. this movie was amazing.

*Grabs his shoulder* "Hey... we did *something*!"
"Yes... *sniffles* bye!"

"Life is good I can't compain... I mean I could but no one's listening."

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[–] poorlittleteacher 16 years ago

In the part were the jewish men and women were fooled by thinking they were going to go to the bathrooms but instead they were going to the gas chambers. I got so mad the only thing I could do was cry.

I totally understand. I never knew David Arquette could work a scene so well. You could see the self-loathing in his eyes behind a "I don't give a f'ck" exterior. What breaks my heart is, most of those sent to the chambers KNEW what lay ahead, and some riots and ravings did break out but led to nothing but death in the gas. Everything became so futile once they were pushed into ghettos...dark acceptance of fate (and a smattering of painful hope) was all they had left. Good God, we should never, never forget this...it still goes on today and I can't be quiet about things like this. I have to speak out and say that genocide is the quickest path to Hell one can find. Only a few might hear, but by God, at least I'm not going to sit on a f'cking fence. Life is too god-damned short for hate.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] naples-884-346409 8 years ago

What breaks my heart is, most of those sent to the chambers KNEW what lay ahead, and some riots and ravings did break out but led to nothing but death in the gas. Everything became so futile once they were pushed into ghettos...dark acceptance of fate (and a smattering of painful hope) was all they had left.

This is not true.

I bet your thinking is based on Bruno Bettelheim's 'ghetto mentality' concept
which is rubbish.

The jews didn't go to death knowingly: They were tricked most of the time.
And when they finally knew sometimes, they were powerless to do something.

Even Oskar Gröning, the SS soldier from Auschwitz that got a trial this year,
said that the arriving jews were clueless about their fate.
These people were in fear, but they always had hope to survive,
because the system was designed to give them a false hope.

There were only very few incidents were the victims knew they would die soon,
because one of the inmates or Sonderkommandos told them or some mistake happened.
But then it was too late:
They were inside a heavily guarded concentration camp, inside a room with one entrance guarded by soldiers with machine guns.

The jewish people and the other victims were deceived all the time.
That is the reason why the Holocaust 'worked'.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] naples-884-346409 8 years ago

shadowgirliee,

it's very obvious to me that you are some kind of Neo Nazi,
so I don't waste my time with educating you.

Everything you wrote is wrong.

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