Are we to blame?


We saw Kevin Rudd say sorry, which was a emotional yet pleasent speech. Currently I'm studying this topic in class, on history of Torris strait islanders. But for those in Australia, we're not really Australian. We are english, people consider us as Australian when we are really not. Were english. So maybe WE SHOULD OF said sorry, I know we have but some people disagree, which is there opinion. But we are English, if the European Settlers didn't come to the land we'd wouldn't be here now. Think about it, the land in your background used to be owned by Aborginals which European Seterlles came and stoll. So we'd should of said sorry, we all should of. And if you think we shouldn't think again atleast you are Aborginal. Some people are selfish.

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AustralianIMDb

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OK I think I get what your saying but I'm sorry I have to disagree. I am Australian. I was born here, my parents were born here, 3 out of 4 of my grandparents were born here. 3/4 of my great grandparents were born here, and most of my great great grandparents were born here. That makes me a 5th generation Australian. I can vote, I am an Australian citizen I hold an Australian passport. I am however not eligable for an English passport so therefore I am not english. Yes my ancestors came from the UK but I did not. Just because my ancesters haven't been here since the homo sapiens migrated from Aftica to Australia doesn't make me any less Australian then the next person. I have lived in this country for the same amount of time as an aboriginal who is 18, I have been ruled by the same governments, confined by the same rules, I have learnt the same compulsory history of Australia (and some in year 12 as well) as they have. So what in your eyes gives them the right to call themselves Australian and I am titled English when I've never even been to England (and most of my family is from Ireland and Scotland.

Yes I respect that I live on Noongar (I don't think I spelt that right) land and I am thankful for the tribes who have preserved the land so people can still live on it today. I accept that they were here first and my ancestors came later. But if the English didn't come I'm sure another country would have.

Finaly I don't understand why your saying maybe we should of said sorry because we did. I'm pretty torn over this one. I think what happened was wrong and I'm sorry for the pain and suffering it caused people, however I'm not willing to take responsibility for what happened because I wasn't even born. But Kevin Rudd said sorry, and saying sorry is taking responsibility for what happened, which I don't agree with. Say your great grandfather killed a man in WW1, are you going to take responsibility for that? are you going to find the family of that man and say I'm sorry and pay for compensation to that family because they were affected by it? I will say I'm sorry for what happened but I'm not going to take responsibility for it. One of the main reasons the Howard government probably didn't say sorry was because they knew that by taking responisbility for it many people would claim compensation which is something that would either decrease the budget for other areas or increase the rate of tax that people pay, which is something they probably didn't want to do to people who had nothing to do with the stolen generation in the first place.

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Well, that all depends, doesn't it?

First, there are practical reasons for an apology and reparations. They establish a firm legal and political precedent that renders future such actions against the Aborigines illegal (not impossible, but harder to implement in the future). Until then, there's basically nothing to prevent them save public opinion--and 9/11 showed us just how fickle that is when it comes to human rights. At least an apology sets a precedent. These events happened into the 1970s. That's less than forty years ago, well within living memory.

Second, the only reason nobody has apologised before now is because generations have continued to pass the buck (even continuing the offending practice and pretending they didn't). What makes it okay for you to continue passing the buck? You benefited from what happened to the Aborigines, didn't you? I mean, you are living on their former land and you wouldn't be if your ancestors hadn't shoved them right off it. If you don't want to apologise, try at least thanking them. And if you think that would offend them, ask yourself why, then, they don't deserve an apology that would make them less bitter about what happened to them. It's not as though things are now all wonderful for the Aborigines.

Third, what makes you think you're immune from genocide and ethnic cleansing just because you're white? Most of the early Europeans in Australia were prisoners forcibly transported there after the American Revolution shut off the Thirteen Colonies as a handy dumping ground for convicts. People back home whose sentences weren't commuted to transportation (which many didn't survive) were hanged, often for offenses as small as stealing food for one's family. Australia's European history, like the European history of every former European colony, has been shaped by the ethnic cleansing of native European populations, not just native colonial populations.

The Irish, Scots, Welsh, and Cornish didn't just happen to want to spread out to the far corners of the British Empire. Many of them were forced to emigrate, driven out of their own countries by famine, disease, grinding poverty, and having their own land stolen out from under them. Why do you think so many European immigrants were really so unsympathetic to the Aborigines? How about because they had had the same thing done to them recently and were willing to do it to someone else so they would never have to go through such hardship again?

And if you really think things like the Highland Clearances and Irish Famine couldn't happen now, you might want to read up on what was happening in the British Isles in the 1970s--things like the Troubles in Northern Ireland and the forcible suppression of spoken Welsh in Wales. And not so long ago, not being English would not save a young Australian man from being drafted to fight a British war.

Don't delude yourself that you are somehow "safe" just because you aren't a member of an aboriginal population in your country. If for no other reason, apologise because you don't want to create and live in a society where that could end up being you.

Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com

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This is old, but you gave a most excellent answer.

Just recently the prime minister or whatever they call their head of state in China apologized to ethnic Chinese for their horrible treatment. Their leader accepted graciously.

Sometimes, you just need to say your sorry.

Unfortunately, in America that will never happen to the descendants of slaves and Native Americans and the OP would be the answer most white Americans would give, but your answer is the best I've seen for why people who are the descendants of people who abused other peoples should do so.

And now white Americans (not all, but too many to bring this country together) are fearing immigrant (especially of brown people, specifically Mexicans and Muslim). Muslims have been radicalized because of the west's treatment of other people. Now whites are afraid that what they did will be done to them. And as you stated so well, it is exactly why they should have apologized long ago and created an equal society instead of the sloppy mess that's only getting worse. Truly apologizing means you empathize and you can't brutalize a human-being that you can relate to.

Applause for your response.

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Not to be picky, but....was shocked to see that you're 14, given the state of your English. What the hell is wrong with our schools these days?

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I just want sausages and mash and a bit of cake. Not twigs fried in honey or a donkey in a coffin!

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Liked the movie alot. Can I just ask...what IS wrong with an apology and compensation? It wouldn't break the bank. Just do it, finish and move on. It would heal both sides and create a nation. What it feels like sometimes is a 'principle' thing, which I think shows some immaturity. From this side of the world, it is very clear the divisions that run through Austrailia and the odd way in which it insists that, no, Austrailia is fine, and anyhow, we can't be responsible for our ancestors actions. I wonder then why Austrailia pretends to take the Environment so seriously. Taking responsibility has nothing to do with assigning or accepting blame. I don't see the problem. Thoughts?

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Its called genetics. The very FIRST people in Australia were the Aboriginals. Unlike the English Scots and Irish who settled in Australia, they murdered, raped and displaced no one. Let us not forget that the English are actually descendants of germans (angles) although it has no bearing on the above fact.

And the rule of law you speak of was written by white people for the betterment of white people and to the exclusion of others. That same rule of law says that if your father gives you a car and you use it for ten years (but which he actually stole from me) I should get it back because I am the legal owner. you could say (as you do above) that you have gotten used to using the car for years and years but in point of fact you have no right to cry foul when it is returned to me. From your point of view, it looks like you are giving me your car, but actually it is I who am RECOVERING what is mine.

Yet this same white law DENIES this principal to black people when it comes to LAND. This is an obvious case of racist double standards.

The land that you inherited from your white ancestors was never theirs to give. You are in receipt of stolen goods (land). And yet you cry foul and change the law to suit your own selfish needs (see how Howard changed the law in an unconstitutional fashion despite mabo judgement decided in favor of the fact that the entire country of Australia is in fact stolen property). Democracy is meant to separate church, law and state. However when it comes to further extinguishing native rights to land and further the selfish greedy white hegemony, the white man changes the rules to suit himself, yet again.


"I'm pretty torn over this one. I think what happened was wrong and I'm sorry for the pain and suffering it caused people, however I'm not willing to take responsibility for what happened because I wasn't even born."

No but you can use your voting right as a citizen and call for financial restitution to the Indigenous population. Stop passing the buck.


I read this and I actually cried because you stated your case quite succinctly. I know that others will try to poke holes into your statement because of their inherent beliefs. But just ignore them because their ignorance is their bliss so trying to convince them to see things differently is a moot point. Further more I just had to say thank you for not only getting it, but putting into layman terms for those who never will.




Never expect someone to lead you from a ditch if they benefit from you staying in it!

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I too shall give a standing ovation to this direct attack. It's very well worded and avoids being needlessly offensive. Bravo.

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There are several very well written posts here. This whole land has really been stolen from the native Australians, completely the same as whole America, both north and south has been stolen from different nations and tribes who had been living there for millenniums building their own civilizations.

However... this is a way that happens all through the history. It seems to be so clear when you have some "wild", "savage" tribe like Aborigines, like Zulu, Ashanti, Aztecs. The bad white men came and stole their land.

But why do we have to leave Europe to look for trails of stolen land and destroyed cultures and civilizations? Why don't we start with Etruscan nation? Illyrians? Moravians - so many people consider them to be just a tribe in Czech nation that they started to believe it themselves (my late great-grandmother probably can't r.i.p. if she can hear the news over there where she is now). Or Macedonians - the ancient ones, not the Slavic nation that just took the name? Where are Vikings?

There are so many nations that have been swept away in European history and their members have been either physically erased, or assimilated. This is a never-ending process that is still happening here, so why would anybody be surprised by Australian or American history (or present)? Some of these nations, like Saami or Frisians have been recognized as separate nations in the countries where they live, so they have been given certain rights and partial autonomy (and yes, an apology somewhere as well), but they still depend on larger nations, and though they might keep their language and tradition for a while the future is uncertain, because in modern world that stimulates migration they will inevitably be mixed with the dominant nation, having to talk their language and accept their rules and traditions to survive.

And when some of today strong nations, divided among dozens of small principalities, duchies, shires, ended the process of unification in 19th century (Italy, Germany), some small nations have been incorporated in new country quickly losing most of their national identity.

So how many apologies, how many blaming, how many compensations should have been done in so small part of the Earth... and this is just the beginning!

Nobody should be proud for what have white people done to Aborigines. But nobody of those living today is responsible. The only ones to be blame are those who would deny what has been done and who would try to preserve the consequences, let alone repeat it all.

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przgzr,
your argument is flawed from the outset because you are assuming that the apology was for the original invasion alone.

i am assuming you have watched this film at minimum, even if you haven't read 'bringing them home'. so you should be aware that until the 1970's it was official government policy to remove children from their families based on their race.

this is just one of many injustices that have been inflicted on indigenous people since 1788 (there are hundreds of thousands of people alive TODAY who were not entitled to minimum wage, had to ask permission to go anywhere, had to ask permission to marry, were denied the right to vote...i could go on), and the consequences are catastrophic to an entire race of people. the indigenous population are still suffering, and still living in 3rd world conditions. in f&*king AUSTRALIA for god's sake!!

until we acknowledge that the past has had a severe, lasting impact on today's indigenous people, there is no way that we will begin to close the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous living conditions.

kevin rudd saying sorry was just a small first step. second would probably be for the rest of the population to catch up and own that there is a gap that needs to be fixed.

just because you or i didn't personally do anything, doesn't mean we aren't reaping the benefits of living in this beautiful, affluent country. just be aware it is at someone else's expense still.

of all the other nations you mentioned, are any of them living in 3rd world conditions today? as a racial group i mean?
it has nothing to do with trawling world history searching for displaced peoples - it has to do with fixing todays problem and acknowledging that what has been done for 200+ years has lead up to todays problems.

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To me it's not so much about your race and nationality and whether you count regarding the need for admission of guilt or not.
It is the British empire which Australia is still part of that is responsible.
As individuals even you shouldn't feel the need to apologise to those who have been wronged, but to demand more than a simple apology from those responsible, and it's even worse of them if they apologise on your behalf.
The British (Anglo-American) empire is alive and well today, and they are still up to their old tricks causing pain and suffering.
So don't feel guilty for what they did then, and don't feel guilty for what they are doing now. Only feel guilty for sitting by and letting them carry on doing it, I know I do.
I'm English btw.

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I am currently writing about the odyssey [LA FAMILIA HAYBURG: DOWN UNDER] my family had 27MAY-15JUL2006 and we are now (30JUN2006) on Victoria Quay, Freo, at the Child Migrant Statue. Are the deportations of children a version of 'Rabbit Proof Fence'? I connected it and "The Mission" with the statue, and had a range of feelings. Once again, it is another example of 'the authorities' committing a wrong and harmful action with the best of intentions. (Though sometimes those intentions are NOT the best!) Is this a different action from removing children, convicts, or others from the Mother Country? All we can do is use the past as a road-map to the future; we absolutely MUST learn. Unfortunately, we do not. The present administration in Washington DC USA has forgotten the disastrous results of a 25-year involvement in Vietnam, and does not acknowledge the impossibility of the Middle East, specifically Afghanistan. Not only did the Soviet Union finally admit it could not "win" (especially if the USA was supporting puppets like Bin Ladin) but that might have been the straw which broke it apart. Oh, before you start to question me as to why it is taking me so long to write, I do have another life--actual income producing work, family, etc. Besides, I rushed my previous two books and had I just taken a little longer....! I am about 3/4s finished with the rough draft, and am planning on completing it within a month--a half-hour per day! Hopefully! Sincerely--John Eyberg aka Juanito Hayburg aka BIKERJOHN www.juanitohayburg.com

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