MovieChat Forums > Buffalo Soldiers (2002) Discussion > Are We Supposed to Root for Some Scumbag...

Are We Supposed to Root for Some Scumbag?

posted 15 years ago by Jakealope
19 replies | jump to latest

where the he betrays his kindly commanding officer, sleeps with his wife, sleeps with a teenager, deals heroin on the side, steals the government blindly, consorts with Turkish gangsters, sells stolen weapons to said gangsters yet comes up the good guy? These guys are stationed in the heart of Europe in peacetime with all the material goods they need yet all they can do is get wasted and play childish games, I don't feel sorry at all for them.

What the heck is wrong with you people, are you a degenerate like him?

[–] irishaspaddyspig 15 years ago

He's not a "scumbag", he's an oportunist.
Elwood's dubious character is the heart of the story. He's not put forth as a good guy at any time. He didn't deal heroin, he just cooked it. The fun of the film is watching him get by on his wits. He didn't get away unscathed. He could have quit, but he was incorrigible. The ending left us with, "here we go again".

"a malcontent who knows how to spell"

[–] marcheurfr 10 years ago

No, he's definitely a scumbag, and an opportunist also. This isn't really a happy ending type movie

[–] Gwasgray 15 years ago

Does the term "antihero" mean anything to you, Jakealope?

[–] Jakealope 15 years ago

Ok, good point!
Yes it does but usually in the end the anti-hero does something redeeming or else utterly fails.

[–] Gwasgray 15 years ago

Not necessarily, an antihero is just a protagonist whose traits are more or less the opposite of the traditional good-guy hero, Travis Bickle is a classic antihero and what he does at the end of Taxi Driver isn't exactly redeeming (although with great irony the film shows it being received as an act of heroism). Or how about Michael Douglas in Falling Down, he doesn't become redeemed, at the end he just forces the cop (Robert Duvall) to shoot him.

I think Elwood becomes slightly redeemed when he takes Knoll under his wing and falls in love with Robyn. I think Elwood is a character who seems pretty amoral and scummy at the start, but gradually we see his nicer side. And by the end he has been completely strongarmed by the Turkish gangster and Sgt. Saad into making the massive batch of heroin (when Stoney gets killed he wants to back out of the whole deal but the gangster threatens to kill him). At the end he has probably learnt his lesson with drug dealing, even though he still seems to be doing some wheeler-dealing (when his new CO looks at his familiar requistion for 1000 gallons of mop-n-glo) it's more of a throwaway gag. He doesn't really get to have a grand redeeming moment, he just has to save his skin from the borderline psychotic Sgt Lee.

[–] bemorecynical2001 15 years ago

I don't think Elwood was ever intentioned to be seen as redeemable even though he is a charming opportunist, which makes him even more dangerous. Also, this film is a very dark comedy, so basically you're meant to disapprove of him, while laughing at his misdeeds, and yes, even rooting for him even though it goes against all natural inclinations towards decency.

It's also important to note that this film is based on the novel of the same name, and in the book, Elwood is actually far nastier than what the film draws out, I was actually surprised how the drugs, violence, and sex were all towned down in the film. But the adaptation is very good, it captured the story fantastically even while it reworked some details, and Phoenix really understood how to play this character brilliantly, and not to spoil too much for anyone who intends to read the book, but the ending is different in the novel, Elwood doesn't quite get off so easily and to be honest, I preferred the film's ending where he slides out of trouble unscathed. Take from that what you will.

"Why would a banana grab another banana? Those are the kinds of questions I don't want to answer."

[–] Gwasgray 15 years ago

Is the novel worth tracking down?

[–] bemorecynical2001 15 years ago

I think so, I really enjoyed it. I saw the film first, liked it, and was interested in the source material. I thought it was a very interesting read, darker than the film and it's written in second person, not a terribly common choice for a novel. So, not only is the book dark, but it feels as if you are put in Elwood's shoes. It's written like, "You walk down the hall and hear a noise, instinctively you grab your gun...." (<not a quote from the book, just an example). Due to Elwood's nature, this is almost disturbing, but in a great way. It was actually one of the more interesting works of fiction I've read in recent years.

You can find it fairly inexpensively online at Amazon or Alibris.

"Why would a banana grab another banana? Those are the kinds of questions I don't want to answer."

[–] drtturner 15 years ago

2 Schools of thought. 1. You cheer for him the same way millions cheer for Tony Soprano, Scarface or the Godfather Family, or 2. Don't cheer for him, root against him The Top is the opposite and viable choose to root for if you wanted or maybe the story can be seen as interesting within itself with rooting for anyone.

[–] jamiemcgrory 15 years ago

Everybody knows the right thing to do, lifes not always about that though, I'd much rather see a realistic human who chooses to do bad than an autonomous drone who only does good. Elwood in this movie does bad things for personal gain, that applies to a lot more people than being a saint for moral gain, so you could say cheering Elwood is like cheering humanity, we on the most part do crap things to each other, hooray!

I eat Lions

[–] Nizzemancer-1 13 years ago

Did someone say Ultimate Anti-hero with no redeeming qualities?

Two words:

Keyser Soze!

Light travels faster than sound,
that's why people seem bright,
until you hear them.

[–] donald-vanvliet 13 years ago

Why would you think you're supposed to "root" for him (or anybody else)?
It's not a sports match.

[–] Nizzemancer-1 13 years ago

You might want to adress the right poster next time...

Light travels faster than sound,
that's why people seem bright,
until you hear them.

[–] donald-vanvliet 13 years ago

I thought my wisdom would benefit you more.

[No sorry, my mistake!]

[–] databyter 13 years ago

It's just a peek into a darker side.

There is a darker side, so it's not completely unbased in reality.

It is an entertainment.

There are many great films where there is no Dudley Doright who wins in the end.

Some people find it honest,refreshing, and entertaining.

I agree that almost all the characters in the movie were unlikable in a real sense, and yet I found the movie very interesting and entertaining.

In fact it is a testament to how good the movie is that I was entertained by it without the hook of actually liking or approving of any of the main characters.

Bravo.

[–] Jakealope 13 years ago

I was in a bad mood when I posted that. I watched it again later when I wasn't so serious and enjoyed it more. But I still think that Scott Glenn stole the show from Joaquin.

[–] irishaspaddyspig 13 years ago

Glen was perfect casting.
The role was supposed to go to Ed Harris. He read the Berman part and asked for it. It was a good choice. Both men suited their parts.

I don't think Glen stole the movie, but he was a perfect foil for Phoenix.

"a malcontent who knows how to spell"

[–] geoffrey-jackson 12 years ago

I know it's just a movie but I don't condone that sort of thing at all. Others can like the film and defend it if they want to but they shouldn't complain when they fall victim to antisocial people like this who have no consideration or respect for others.

The acting was OK. Story was obviously incredible and a bit hard to accept. Directing seemed OK.

I would rather abstain from voting all together. If this was a boxing match then it would be like seeing a couple of clowns up there playing the idiot. None the less, I spent the time and watched the movie - regretfully. Seeing I am compelled to vote I would have to give it 7/10; but I didn't enjoy it at all.

Sorry folks, that's my honest opinion.

[–] Reallusion1 10 years ago

I don't care who I'm SUPPOSED to root for. You're right. He was a scum bag. I wasn't pulling for him. It was an entertaining story though.