MovieChat Forums > Hart's War (2002) Discussion > Why were they treated so well?

Why were they treated so well?

posted 20 years ago by gshivers
76 replies | jump to latest

What I dont understand about this film was how well the POW's were treated. Bruce Willis punked the German officer on several occasions. Nazis are known to be ruthless, but yet they had separate bunks for the officers and the common soldiers. There is a scene where the German officer invites, yes invites, Farrell's character into his bunker to discuss his background and finds out they went to the same college, how touching. Bruce Willis' character gets away with so much. Plus it never shows how they get their getaway materials, all the sudden they have this huge tunnel with German officers clothing and bombs and weapons. The Germans were bastards but were thorough and disciplined, and they wouldn't have allowed anyone such a huge chance for escape. And if a Nazi wanted to kill a POW, he's not gonna allow him to have a fair trial, he would just kill him, no questions asked. I just cant see this happening, especially with all of the horrors of a POW camp (ex. The Deer Hunter, or The Great Escape - which looks vaguely familiar) The soldiers treated the prisoners with a sort of mutual respect. I have heard firsthand stories of these camps and they were not a vacation. There's places in the USA worse than this. I just dont see this as being accurate.

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[–] ziggy_98_99 20 years ago

Although the film can be considered innaccurate on the account of pows being treated almost like they weren't prisoners you have to remember that during WWII not every german was a mindless cruel nazi that wanted to kill. POW Camps were guarded by Whermacht, these guards, with exception of course would basically be regular people that either enlisted or were drafted and had no interest in flat out cruelty

[–] Scarlet_Illuminati 20 years ago

I agree with Ziggy. The Stalag was ran by Wehrmacht soldiers as opposed to the murderous 3rd SS division (Totemkopf), whom ran many of the prison camps.

[–] tnvethistories 19 years ago

Most if not all Stalag Luft guards were luftwaffe (German air force) personnel, not wehrmacht. The wehrmacht were infantry and thus were needed elsewhere. As for the inacurracies in this movie, remember that it's a miserably written screenplay based on a boring and tedious book. Lt. Hart, of the title, is barely necessary to the story while Willis is clearly the star.

[–] WM4668 18 years ago

Just FYI

Wehrmacht was a collective term for the armed forces, comprising Heer(Army), Luftwaffe (Air Force) and Kreigsmarine (Navy). As you say Stalag Luft camps were administered by Luftwaffe personnel, and tended to house Airmen rather than the predominantly army prisoners shown here.

[–] SpiltPersonality 13 years ago

Damn, I hate it when you beat me to an answer. You only beat me by four years, but still...

SpiltPersonality

[–] statistician_t 15 years ago

Well, beside the SS vs. Wehrmacht and the "not every Nazi was cruel" there is another explanation.

After the Germans attacked Poland and then the Soviet Union, they did not care much about treating prisoners well. Knowing that nobody can guarantee POW rights, the only resort is to trust the enemy is treating our soldiers the same way as we are doing.

In addition, the Soviet Union did not sign the 1929 Geneva convention on POW treatment, but Britain, the U.S., France, Germany and Italy were members of that treaty. However, every member party has to treat non-member nation's prisoners in the way prescribed by the Geneva convention. So as the Soviets did not have any obligations towards German POWs, they were treated badly. In retaliation, the German forces negated the Geneva convention rules and mistreated the Soviet prisoners equally.

About the comparative death rates of POWs in the Second World War:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II#Comparative_death_rates_of_POWs

[–] simon-lever 11 years ago

As someone has mentioned on here - read the Colditz castle books. They were in an "escape proof" castle for POWs that had escaped from standard Stalags. They dug three tunnels and even a glider which they were going to launch from the roof.

There are other examples of prisoners and guards becoming friends. When Nelson Mandela was on Robben Island the prisoners were treated very badly. However over time they developed maybe not friendships but a working relationship with the guards. I have met a former prisoner (who gave us a guided tour of the prison) - he is now good friends with one of the former guards.

[–] jpslefty 20 years ago

Also, on the fair trial issue the Germans used it as a source of intertainment as well. I assume that they found it interesting to watch. If the Germans wanted to they could have just shot the man they thought was the killer but they allowed the trial because it was like a sporting event for them. They used it to take their mind off of things and to see how the "American way" was.

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[–] exploitedyouth 20 years ago

Also, in some German POW camps they treated the POW's very well hoping they would turn to their side, or at least give them valuable information.

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[–] Bloody_Duo 20 years ago

It was policy to treat the american and british POWS well. For a few reasons one hoping to win them over. Two because Hitler was racist he saw people like jews and russions and such as sub human but as a whole he saw british and american as less then germans but more then jews and russions.

[–] 20 years ago

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[–] pedigree7 17 years ago

"executions of British soldiers by SS in Africa."

The Afrika Corps were never accused of war crimes. Please provide some evidence there, because Rommel was not like that and he would not have allowed that to happen.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[–] nyc1298 18 years ago

My Grand Father was a POW in Germany. He was not treated very well at all. He was captured with a gun shot to the leg. The only medical attention he received was a roll of toilet paper to stop the bleeding. Several of his friends in the camp were shot to only make an example of their ruthlessness. The prisoners did have some freedom. My Grand Father was able to steel some patatoes to help a sick prisoner, who later turned him in for stealing...

[–] Napoleon799 18 years ago

That was mentioned as a treatment by the *beep* in WW2 from 'The Great Escape'; so it was that bad.

Thanks

[–] nyc1298 18 years ago

I haven't seen the great escape but I wouldn't be suprised if some of what's in the movie happened like my grandfather said. I remember telling him about harts war before he passed away and before I could tell him the prisoners were trying to escape he already knew. He said there were many escape attempts in his stalag... He even got out a couple times but he was found that day or the next and returned, and later sent to a punishment camp. The camp in the movies was exactly that.

[–] tnvethistories 19 years ago

Everyone who believes the Germans treated English and American POWs well should read books by former POWs. They had little food, little firewood for the few small stoves in their uninsulated huts, and usually only one thin blanket for Germany's harsh winters. Red Cross parcels supplied most of what decent food they got. Yes, POWs weren't tortured or worked to death as happened in the concentration camps. But in all the books I've read, not one former POW described his treatment as anything positive.

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[–] Nihil_476 19 years ago

Anglo-Allied (i.e., British and American) captured personnel were treated more or less in accordance with the Hague Convention (the 1907 predecessor of the '49 Geneva Convention), which called for humane treatment of POW's.

It should be noted that even under the Geneva Convention "slave" labor is permitted (although more euphemistically termed as worker-details) for enlisted men. Officers were treated relatively well, as German officers would expect the same military courtesy they extended.

As for the lack of food, clothing, etc., the Germans were fighting a war after all, and those supplies were badly needed on the front, their own soldiers taking first priority. I do not say any of this to exculpate German actions during the war, but to lend a more realistic perspective as it concerns treatment of POWs.

In the US Army "Soldier's Manual of Common Tasks," (as well as FM 21-76, Surivival, Evasion, & Esacpe) all captured soldiers have a duty to attempt escape; under both Hague and Geneva Conventions, POW's attempting to escape forfeit the basic "legal" protections regarding their treatment. As such, it was (and still is) legal to shoot prisoners attempting to escape.

It is not at all implausible that a German officer received an education at Yale following WWI, or that Germans admired certain aspects of American culture, such as jazz music (jazz was so popular in fact that the Education Ministry banned its play, for obvious political reasons; there is even a horrible early 90's movie about it, Swing Kids: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108265/).

Having said all this, I do not find the plot as far-fetched as others seem to. Life was certainly not pleasant in captivity, but German treatment of Anglo-Allied captured personnel was, relatively speaking, humane. "Hart's War" shouldn't be expected to be a realistic depiction of life in a POW camp as an Anglo-Allied soldier, but neither should it be understood to have glaring inaccuracies.

Personally, I found the film entertaining, and somewhat educational, as Farrell's character learns late what it means to be a junior officer and doesn't comprehend the political decisions/implications behind the orders from a commanding authority (in his case, LTC Hart's), which showcases his character's naivette.

"Tradition is the democracy of the dead."

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Napoleon799 18 years ago

Exactly. If you read "The Great Escape" by Paul Brickhill, they were starved most of the time. This gave them escape fever.

[–] donny-31 17 years ago

Concerning your Post: German prison personnel were not interested in getting POWs to "turn to their side" but were to some small extent interested in attempting to extract information. Mostly the extracting of information was not done by POW Camp personnel but by the Gestapo.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Kram99 16 years ago

I also wondered about this part of the film.

I asked my mum about family that served in the war recently and she said my Great Uncle was a German POW. She said that he was treated relatively ok and the Germans respected them as soldiers. He did however have a couple of big scars on his head from rifle butts, but he received those when trying to escape so I guess that was fair enough.

[–] pedigree7 16 years ago

"He did however have a couple of big scars on his head from rifle butts, but he received those when trying to escape so I guess that was fair enough."

LMAO

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[–] Shc-Shc 19 years ago

Actually, for the Americans and the rest of western Europe, the POWs were treated quite fairly and even as gentlemen..

Most Germans treated their POWs fairly well. And yes, in several ocassions (real life), the Germans did offer a trial to the POWs but I'm less sure about that in 1944 though...

Don't let the stereotype get you.. Not all Germans were evil!
It's still "fairly" accurate...

The British/German (especially in North Africa) is probably the best example where the POWs were treated well.

If anything, the mistreatement is against the Russians.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] dbdumonteil 19 years ago

And do not forget it was 1945!I do think the german had other fish to fry;then this "and justice for all" does not make any sense.

[–] gwgraham 19 years ago

dbdumonteil is correct. It was now 1945 and while in the camp commander's office, you could hear the radio playing. Rest assured, he knew the status of the war and knew that the end had to have been drawing near. Any humane treatment of the prisoners would look favorably in the eyes of their soon to be captors. Dog fights in the skies deep over Germany had to mean that the Allies were knocking on the door.

[–] Renaldo Matlin 18 years ago

I'll give you a clear evidence of how well treated Allied POW's were by some Germans - from the true story behind what became the movie "The Great Escape" (1963). The German commander of the Stalag Luft camp, himself an officer in the Luftwaffe, was relieved of duty by the Germans after the mass escape. But years later, after the war, when many of the surviving Allied POW's gathered for a reunion they invited the German commander to their party and he was welcomed with open arms and treated as an old friend.

Now would they do that if they felt he was being the monster that German officers are so often portrayed as in WW2-movies? I doubt it.

And you all gotta remember that most German soldiers and officers were NOT nazis (members of the nazi party). There's a huge difference between officers in the SS and officers in the Kriegsmarine (navy), Luftwaffe (air force) etc.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Napoleon799 18 years ago

Interesting. Where'd you read.hear that? I'd like to know more

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] InRoom118 18 years ago

Germans treated P.O.W.s with a very nice amount of respect and always treated them well. The concentration camp-esque things only occured during genocide and for the Russians!

[–] Movies_For_Life 18 years ago

The movie sort of seems to copy 'Stalag 17' but with more violence, guess it's difficult to make ww2 POW movies without appearing to plagiarize.

[–] dreamdemon-1 18 years ago

Actually the manner of treatment is quite realistic.
In WWII POW's were allowed to keep military ranking (but any POW ranking was considered inferior to any prison guard's rank) and usually had separate barracks for enlisted men and officers. This allowed for easier control of the prisoners (and POW officers were usually responsibles for men missing from their ranks, eg escapees or dead, eg Willis' character should've suffered some punishment when those trying to escape were captured and executed). Aside from that life in POW camps were more than harsh since you were still basically at the mercy of nazi's despite all the leeway.
Towards the end of the war things became even better for POW since in most camps nazi's that were aware of the fact they were losing the war tried to be more humane towards POWs and gain sympathy.