MovieChat Forums > 61* (2001) Discussion > it's a joke that maris isn't in the hall...

it's a joke that maris isn't in the hall of fame. really it is.

posted 9 years ago by emncaity
12 replies | jump to latest

Maris was good enough to be a player in the majors for 12 years, and he broke a home-run record that had stood for decades, passing even the great Mantle and several other greats along the way, along with playing on three championship teams in six appearances in the World Series.

He was also a four-time All-Star and a two-time MVP of the entire league, the first time on an AL-pennant-winning team and the second time on a World Series champion.

Yeah. Pretty thin on record, that guy.

He also ended his career with a .982 fielding percentage, so it's not like you could take it away from him on the basis of fielding.

Anytime you have a guy who does something earth-shaking like he did, you can understand why voters might want to look at the rest of his career to see if it's substandard enough to indicate that the one big achievement was a fluke. But there's no way you can look at his record and say that. If he were a career .210 hitter, okay. But power hitters are valuable even if they hit .260; they're told to drive runs in and not worry about average. And a guy who won not one but two league MVPs, and went to the All-Star game four times, and who did it all on the highest-visibility team in the majors while they were winning championships, is no fluke. It's an absolute joke that he's not in.

In the end, the point really is this: Everybody, and I mean everybody, who knows baseball at all knows and appreciates what Maris did. That should end the discussion about whether he belongs in any Hall of "Fame."

The truth is that the perception that Maris doesn't belong in the Hall is a holdover from those "he doesn't really deserve it" days of the pro-Mantle and pro-Ruth prejudice in 1961. There are guys in the Hall right now who can't come close to matching Maris' achievement or notoriety.

For the record, I'm the rare Red Sox fan who likes the Yankees and appreciates what they've done. All those years the Yanks were winning pennants and World Series in the '90s and '00s, and most Sox fans were ragging them with the "you suck" stuff, I was thinking hey, we ought to pay attention and learn how to play like these guys. ("Jetah, you SUCK!" No he doesn't.) Joe Torre is still one of my absolute favorite people in the game, and I'm a big fan of Joe Girardi, too. And I actually root for them when the Sox are out of the race or out of the playoffs. I just love the game and anybody who's playing it well.

Which is exactly why I know, and you know, that Maris ought to be in the Hall. And it's sickening that he's not. On the other hand, to anybody who knows the game, he's in the one that actually matters -- the one where real fans and real players know who did what.

[–] sharebear42019 9 years ago

Great post. Grey movie. Great player

I agree on all points, and being a born diehard Yankee fan I respect the sox too, big papi is my favorite non Yankee player right now

[–] sharebear42019 9 years ago

Great* not grey lol

[–] emncaity 9 years ago

...and here I am, rooting for Yankees since the Sox are long gone this year... ;-)

I mean, greatest franchise in baseball history, over the long run. Everybody has down years; that's just the way the game is. But NY has had fewer of them than anybody, and more great years. It's not even close. Like I have to tell you. But they amaze me, they really do, year in and year out.

[–] boutetr 9 years ago

I haven't followed baseball enough to really judge if he should be in or not. The fact that he managed to break Ruth's record with all that animosity from his hometown fans towards him says a lot about his character. I wonder how many more home-runs he could of hit if he wasn't so stressed out. Not sure if you have ever seen this poll/thread about him getting in. Seems the majority feel he shouldn't be in for various reasons. A bit of a knock against him is he only played 11 seasons but one guy points out that apparently it was kept from Maris that he was playing with a broken hand during the 1965 season.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?47708-Roger-Maris-In-or-Out&highlight=roger+maris

[–] emncaity 9 years ago

To me, it's a fairly simple question: Since it's a Hall of "Fame," is Maris famous for 1) what he did on the field, and 2) in a positive way? If so, it ought to put him in a category for consideration. Then when you look at the fact that he established a home-run record not for a single game, not for a week's worth of games, but for an entire season, against an array of the best pitchers in the American League, and the record stood for nearly four decades...I don't even know what the argument is about.

[–] boutetr 9 years ago

I agree with everything you say and I think this post #49 from the link I provided says it best:

"I'm for Roger in the HOF. I don't think that the MLB story can be told without him. The incredible pressure that he endured can't be measured. Plus he was a winning player. The Cardinals benefited from his presence. He was a great RF. He made the play of the season in the 9th inning of the 62 series. He had good years in 62 and 64 also. I think that the HOF has a place for Roger."

[–] mwgfgrey 8 years ago

In my opinion I think his is still the record. The steroid boys don't count.

[–] HOKfilms 8 years ago

You remove the record and chances are you wouldn't even know who Maris was. He was really good for a couple of years and happened to he on a great team. But his career isn't anything like Mantle's, for instance. He hit a career 275 home runs. And he hit almost a forth of those in 61. Lol hardly what you wouldnt consider a power hitter to excuse his sub par batting average.

If you want to put im in the Hall simply for what he did in 61, im all for it. Im a Yankee fan and theres plenty of people in the HoF who I've never even heard of. His two time MVP is the best thing he has goin for him.

[–] tempmail1974 8 years ago

There are few metrics used to statistically evaluate players and their numbers for the HOF.

Black & Grey Ink (# of times a player lead the league in a category, # of top 10 finishes in a category). Maris is at 18 & 57, with the average HOF member at 27 & 144, so he is sub-standard by this measure.

The "Hall of Fame Monitor", a Bill James formula, rates him at 89 (average HOF at 100), so he is sub-standard here, too.

The "Hall of Fame Standards", another formula, puts Maris at a 22, with 50 being the average HOF member. Way below average by this rating.

Jay Jaffe's WAR system shows him below average in all measures for a HOF Right Fielder.
Career 38.2 vs. 73.2, 7-year 43 vs. 58.1

If Maris made the HOF, he would be one of the worst RF's enshrined (3rd worst, actually), even with the record. The only two guys beneath him are from the 1800's.

[–] emncaity 8 years ago

It's a good case. But the reason you'd put Maris in is simple: Not for year-to-year consistency, but because he held the single-season record for 37 years.

Hall of "Fame" ought to have something to do with fame. Maris indisputably had that.

However, there's no doubt that to be in it, it would take a kind of special admission. It's true that over his career, he's not on a level with many others there.

[–] tempmail1974 8 years ago

I agree. I wouldn't complain if the Veteran's Committee put him in, and he is certainly more worthy (in my view) than some of the other players they have chosen in the past.

[–] redban (5202) 2 years ago

The only argument for Maris is that his name has a certain mystique, largely because he was a Yankee who hit 61 HR and won 2 MVPs.

Looking at the numbers objectively - he's not a HOFer. His numbers are comparable to Maggilio Ordonez, Brian Giles, Bobby Abreu, Darryl Strawberry (some of these players may have been better than Maris, infact)