Unrealistic


It's a fantasy version of the uprising. The Jews are well-armed, they even seem to have more submachine guns than the Germans. The Germans too look like the front-line troops, they even have the Tiger I tanks(!). In reality, it was police and reserve of the SS, and many were not even Germans. In the movie, the Jews inflict massive casualties on them, and the Germans are dropping left and right, and usually seems to be killed. It wasn't like that.

And this all only from the military viewpoint.

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well do research with first hand accounts before you make judgements like that
They tell you a version pretty close to that which the movie show....
And the the real number of German causualties go up to the thousands...unfortunately it will never be known because Stroop, the Head of that division of SS, smudged the numbers, making him look better, usually reporting only a couple officers and men per day, and inflating the Jewish causualties . And they even mention that in the movie. Do some research dude....

You can find a great book by the real life Kazik, and one EXTREMELY detailed book by Yitzkak Zuckerman, David Schwimmers character.

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Oh, come on. The uprising was by just several hundred people, most of them unarmed at all besides hand grenades and other thrown weapons (no, no machine guns and submachine guns like in the movie, just several dozen pistols and some rifles).

And the "Tiger tanks" were really French-made light weapon platforms (technically not a tanks at all). SS police and reserve cavalry with the Tigers, because don't you know every German threaded vehicle was a Tiger tank. And so on. Silly Hollywood history.

Stroop was actually rather sincere in his recollection of the events he told when in prison. Check out the flags story, makes whom look good? And see The Pianist, how the attack on the marching column is shown in this movie (talking about eye witnesses).

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Inaccuracies are typicl in such movies, whcih have become some sort of revenge movies. I guess this movie was made mainly for an american audience, and as such, it has to manipulate facts in order to be more attractive.
Tiger I tanks in the uprising? Marching SS soldiers singing the Erika song??
Hollywood trush of highest caliber

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I think the "singing column" scene was in The Pianist too. Except there only some shots are fired and one German drops dead. The rest return fire and retreat.

It reminded me on the scene from Empire of the Sun where a marching Japanese column is attacked by a Chinese guerrillas firing pistols from the roofs of Hong Kong.

Edit: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fw04sfrAN78 Nah, not singing.

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The uprising was by just several hundred people, most of them unarmed at all besides hand grenades and other thrown weapons (no, no machine guns and submachine guns like in the movie, just several dozen pistols and some rifles).


Actually according to Richard Lukas in his book The Forgotten Holocaust, the Jewish fighters from ŻZW received from the Polish resistance 2 heavy machine guns, 4 light machine guns, 21 submachine guns, 30 rifles, 50 pistols, and over 400 grenades.

Also on the Stroop Report for the entry for May 24, 1943, Stroop reports that they uncovered a large stash of machine gun ammunition.

Don't you look stupid now...

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Armed with pistols, grenades (many of them homemade), and a few automatic weapons and rifles, the ZOB fighters stunned the Germans and their auxiliaries on the first day of fighting, forcing the German forces to retreat outside the ghetto wall. German commander SS General Jürgen Stroop reported losing 12 men, killed and wounded, during the first assault on the ghetto. On the third day of the uprising, Stroop's SS and police forces began razing the ghetto to the ground, building by building, to force the remaining Jews out of hiding. Jewish resistance fighters made sporadic raids from their bunkers, but the Germans systematically reduced the ghetto to rubble. The German forces killed Anielewicz and those with him in an attack on the ZOB command bunker on 18 Mila Street, which they captured on May 8.

Though German forces broke the organized military resistance within days of the beginning of the uprising, individuals and small groups hid or fought the Germans for almost a month. To symbolize the German victory, Stroop ordered the destruction of the Great Synagogue on Tlomacki Street on May 16, 1943.


http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005188

"Don't you look stupid now...", for some reason defending a totally retarded flick in which the Jews are literally massacring Germans and even blowing up Tiger tanks?

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for some reason defending a totally retarded flick in which the Jews are literally massacring Germans and even blowing up Tiger tanks?


Not defending the movie per se...I'm just correcting your ignorant statement:

no, no machine guns and submachine guns like in the movie, just several dozen pistols and some rifles


There actually WERE machine guns and submachine guns. The Polish Home Army gave them to the ZOB. There were also almost 400 grenages, rifles and pistols. And why is the word of a NAZI Jurgen Stroop taken at face value while the words of survivors aren't?

Jurgen Stroop had every reason to minimize his losses in his reports to his commanding officers. The Jews not so much. Survivor and former ZOB leader Marek Edelman reports that hundreds of German and Auxiliaries were killed. Why is his word not to be trusted but that of a mass murderer is?

The truth is yes, this film is a dramatization and as such will take liberties with the story and will depict some things as being more badass and exciting than they really were but I find it disturbing how much effort you've been putting in this board denigrating the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

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There actually WERE machine guns and submachine guns.


A handful, literally. And the SMGs were quite rare even in the German army (most of the Germans had bolt-action Mauser rifles, even at the very end of the war after they have introduced G43 semi-automatic rifles and StG assault rifles). Anyway, most of the Jewish insurgents had handguns, at best (most had nothing).

Which was not untypical in the realities of Warsaw, Warsaw Uprising was the same (situations in this style: an "assault platoon" armed with an old Russian revolver and 8 bullets, 2 stick grenades and Molotovs, and that's all, at first).

Jurgen Stroop had every reason to minimize his losses in his reports to his commanding officers.


"his commanding officers": Heinrich F-g Himmler. "Oh, Herr Reichsfuhrer-SS, so you did find out I lied to you? Man, relax, come on. No biggie?"

Survivor and former ZOB leader Marek Edelman reports that hundreds of German and Auxiliaries were killed. Why is his word not to be trusted but that of a mass murderer is?


And why was (he's dead now) he not even mentioning ZZW (ZOB's semi-rival milita)? Oh snap.

There was an article in Haaretz how the ZOB survivors chose to not tell the whole thruth, for example how they were killing Jewish and Polish women and children alleged to be informants (later with no "trials", and sometimes even "not wasting bullets"), or how they were robbing rich Jews at gunpoint, how they were leaving civilians for death (an example: a crying infant in a burning building, they just walked right by without picking up him/her) and their friends too, how one of their commanders apparently stole all their food for himself after his group's escape to the forest (they wanted to kill him, he later returned to Warsaw and was killed by Germans), etc.

Do you think they were some kind of angels, uncapable even of lying? They weren't. They were humans.

And Uprising is a fantasy film.

There was also a lot of self-serving heroic myth-making about the Warsaw Uprising. ALL LIES. I even sort of believed in this, until I've read one honest memoir of a guy who went through the hell, and staying alive involved remnant of his unit going AWOL, and in the end him pretending to be a civilian. It was a shattering experience for me, but at least I'm no longer naive like you. I even wrote on this very board how the German losses were supposedly 16,000 killed. Well, NOT. More like 10-12,000 total, killed AND wounded (3,000 or so killed). There was an archival research of the real German losses. It's however supressed by these who believe in romantic *beep* of the German pyrrhic victory or whatever. Oh, and most of their losses was completely worthless trash, cannon fodder like forcibly conscripted criminals of Dirlewanger and eastern "volunteers". This, in exchange for much of the best of Polish youth. Depressing.

The truth is yes, this film is a


The truth is yes, this film is a stinking pile of bull-t. The Pianist is no much more honest (the original memoir too) and a much better film altogether too. About Warsaw Uprising watch Kanal (Sewer), it's an old film from 1957 but with no fantasy approach to the subject whatsoever. Here's how it ends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VGFIsjGF9k (everyone dies, which is a proper end).

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Oh, and how it would look like if the film makers decided to not make a silly heroic-fantasy movie after all:

http://niniwa2.cba.pl/rudnicki_likwidacja_getta.htm

Run it through some translator and maybe you'll then understand what kind of "fighting" was this.

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Btw, even Edelman later distanced himself from the claim of a burned tank, saying it was just a rumor ("they say, I don't know"):

http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/warsaw_ghetto_testimonies/f ighters.asp

If they wanted a Jewish revenge fantasy film of Tiger tanks blowing up, they should have done it like Tarantino did, without any pretense of "based on a true story".

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