MovieChat Forums > The Other Side of Heaven (2002) Discussion > Is Annie Morman?

Is Annie Morman?

posted 20 years ago by Kajee2
99 replies | jump to latest

Anybody know?

Never judge a book by its movie.

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[–] anthonyvaldivia 19 years ago

First of all it is spelled Mormons. Secondly, I am a Mormon and live in Califorina so your logic makes no sense.

[–] UltimateJoolsFan 19 years ago

Point: I am a Mormon.
Point: I live in Australia which is like half a world away from Utah, New Jersey and America.
Point: I have been a Mormon my whole life, yeah 16 years.
Point: My dad's family were converted when he was about 20. He is now 43 and is very devout. As am I
Point: You've got your points screwed up. YOu don't need to live in Utah to become and remain a Mormon. Me and my family are living proof of that.
Point: Have you been to Utah? I haven't.
Oh yeah the real Jean is a Mormon but that's a given.

[–] procrastinator4 19 years ago

Anne is definately not a mormon, trust me I met her. I am one of (the many) of John and Jeans grandchildren and i know for a fact she and Chris are not mormans.

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[–] Timekeeper1 11 years ago

I wish u did have to live in Utah................

[–] Shearer_Goddard_Russell 19 years ago

I heard that Anne Hathaway is in a new porn movie, so I'm highly doubting that she's a mormon. And um, by the way, I'm from new YORK and i've been mormon my whole entire life. Thanks for your prejudiced remark about us being in "backwater states".

[–] tldsyouth 19 years ago

I am a Mormon and I live in THAILAND

[–] SDSandARG 19 years ago

Mormans live all over the world including New Jersey my best friends family lives there and they are mormon. and i dont know if ann hathaway is mormon, she doesnt dress like one, but i know a couple mormons who dont either, but i dont think she is, i think we would know if she was. and i wasnt born or raised in the mormon church me and my family converted a couple years ago and most of my friends were raised in the church and like half of them don't even have relatives who live in utah.

[–] NediamNori87 19 years ago

...you guys are morons. ctomvelu was obviously joking around.

[–] locuster5 19 years ago

well if that was a joke it didnt exactly come through that way... it sounded a bit more like a slam

[–] alamda 19 years ago

Don't you dare dis on Utah. Not everyone there is Mormon! I've lived there all my life. And my family isn't Mormon. And who are you to be dissing on Mormons? They live a whole lot better than you. There's no corruption in their church. That's probably why I chose to convert. And no I didn't convert while I was in Utah. Don't you dare. That's just crap right there!

[–] blacksheep19622001 18 years ago

Well Maybe there is no Corruption in the Churches you are associated with or in ...but I was a Mormon from Birth- 5th Generation down....---and a very active One at that== until I was 19 years old.....and I tell you from personal experiance there was and is corruption in many of the Churches .....and in fact I was one who suffered because of some of it...Do not tell me either that Woman are looked as equals with Men....in fact they are considered lower then the Mormon Men......even my own Brother who was of the 12 came to question some of this himself when he saw a Mormon woman come before the Church with the Abuse she was suffering through at the hands of her Mormon Husband --"And who came out Chastised"? "The Woman"......I was being sexually abused by my step Dad who was a Mormon... And I went to the Church and do you think even one tryed to help me? No-one cared.... they turned the other cheek--and acted like I had never said anything to them........Maybe most of you have been blessed with being in good Churches with good [people] I was never in Even one compassinate and caring Mormon Church ----all my 19 years of life as an Active Mormon... and in fact not one Mormon woman even cared to ever wrap their arms around an abused lonely Mormon girl who despite of all that-- strived to be a strong faitful Mormon until at age 19 several things happened and God led me out of it.....Utah is where my family on my Moms side were based and most still live there ....I am not saying that there are not some wonderful Mormons who are fervent to their beliefs but I have to question a Religion that directs their Members to treat their own Biological familys as non-existant when they are no longer Mormons.....I in my own experiance have found not open arms but cold numb shoulders.....You ask me if I am bitter? Yes I am----- Through all the abuse I endured I would have loved to have one understanding compaassinate person who would have reached out to me with Gods Love ---but never found that when I was young...In fact Out of most of my Mormon family side I have found one{ mainly One}--who has offered me unconditional Love-- for years even though I am not an active Mormon..--and I thank God for this Lovely Woman --she is one of the main bright Blessings That God has sent to me......There is not a Church today whether Mormon or Any of the others that is with out Corruption today....Jesus said all have sinned and come short of the glory of God ...but in all the Churches I have tried since leaving the LDS Church The Mormon Or The Church of The Latterday Saints is the least Loving and least accepting that I have found so far and I am now in my 40's. Maybe it is because I was always in it from Birth that no-one had to pretend to show love to convert me...I never had one truely reach out to me... I am still on the Membership list of The LDS but unactive and will "never ever go back"...... I do blieve if that is what you chose then live it 100% --I am now a Christian Non-Denominational and have found something that I never found no matter how much I searched for all the years I was a Mormon......I do say this one thing.... Do you believe it so fervantly as to put your Eternal life on the line, not just of yours but your Entire familys? Cause Eternity is a real long time to find out then after its too late to change that you were wrong in what Your Church Doctrine taught you.... If you find anything contray to sound Doctrine in which I mean The KJV Bible then now is the time to start pondering and Questioning ....for as it is also Written in the KJV Bible It says if they speak not according to The Word it is because there is no light in them. In Christ fervantly------

[–] swirl000123 18 years ago

blacksheep19622001, I was so sad to read what happened to you as a child and I hope you find happiness and peace in whatever religion you choose. I'm sure the Mormons you knew who hurt you and looked the other way when you needed them will be judged for their actions by Almighty God.

However, I must point out that the LDS Church itself does not accept or condone either child or spousal abuse, or abuse of any kind. LDS Church leaders have spoken out against such evils repeatedly and frequently. No man or woman can truly call themselves a Latter-Day Saint if they engage in such heinous crimes or fail to help victims of such crimes. In the same vein, no LDS Bishop or leader is worthy of his/her post (or even membership in the Church) if they ever chastise someone for being abused or fail to discipline someone who is abusive (and by discipline I mean disfellowship or excommunicate from the Church).

Also, the LDS Church does not "direct their members to treat their own Biological familys as non-existant when they are no longer Mormons." If your family believes that, then it is they who are in the wrong, and I hope that they, along with any other members of the Church who feels that way, repents and changes their ways.

(by the way, What's with All the weird Capitalizations?)

[–] ashcooney 16 years ago

Richard g. scott just gave a talk about this during the saturday afternoon session of general conference.

[–] LOTR_FrEeEk 16 years ago

No matter how many good practices and beliefs our church has there will always be those that choose not to follow them. Even our leaders are not perfect (they're only human) and that's something they must carry every second of their lives. I've seen the same thing happen to a lot of my friends. It happens all the time. And usually when stuff like that happens anyone looking at them who isn't a member will automatically rationalize that ALL LDS members are like them.

[–] Devillicious14 18 years ago

LDS (Mormons) live all around the world so what you (ctomvelu) said is completely wrong. ~.~ I'm from Red Deer, Alberta, Canada and there are a fair amount of members here. And perhaps there are alot of members in Utah, that doesn't mean a thing. A member could go off the straight and narrow path just as easily there as almost anywhere. It all goes on how strong your testimony (if you have one) is. My parents are converts and have been very strong members for many years now. I was born and raised in the church (as were most of my siblings) and am still an active member (though most of my older siblings aren't).

Anyway, as far as I've read in this thread, Anne isn't a member. Though I was wondering that same thing too. I don't know much about her so I have no clue if she isn't for sure. I'm just going to go by what everyone said in this thread. :)

Has anyone seen The Best Two Years? I love that movie. Kirby did such I good job. :D

What does everyone think of this movie (The Other Side of Heaven? Pretty good, eh?

"You can't be right by doing wrong, you can't be wrong by doing right"
- Thomas S. Monson (favorite ^-^)

"Vulgar language is only an admonition of a small vocabulary"
- Gordon B. Hinckley

"Popularity ends on yearbook day, but respect lasts forever"
- John Bytheway

[–] UltimateJoolsFan 19 years ago

Strange question. Why?
I would say no, she is not a Mormon.

[–] musicalnotes88 19 years ago

Anne Hathaway is not a Mormon, but as for no Mormons living in New Jersey that is a complete myth! What good reason would there be for no Mormons to live in New Jersey?

Besides! I live in Iowa and my parents became members HERE in IOWA not UTAH and we will ALWAYS be Mormons.

Music 4 me

[–] brompotje 19 years ago

I don't know if Anna is a Member, i gues not.
But i know some other things.
- I'm a Member to, And i live in BELGIUM!!!
- My partens are members for almost 20 years now.
- we are all very strong in our faith and we don't live in Utah!
- And i will be a member for the rest of my life, and i don't have to live in America to be strong in my believes!

[–] everpure_17 19 years ago

no she's not mormon, and just b/c she was in a very (very) inapproppriate movie doesn't mean she's not a good person just to let anybody know

By the way I am not a "mormon", I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints whether or not I live in Utah or ever set foot in Utah has nothing to do with it. The only thing that matters is how I live my life, serve my Heavenly Father and my fellow man.

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[–] candy281-1 19 years ago

Im also LDS...and i live in Australia. I have been a member for 17 years(since birth) ...and plan to be for a long time...even after i die! And my parents have been members since they were 14 and now one is 45 and the other 51! The church might have came from Utah but that was 200 years ago. Things grow dear, now its HUGE. And i think its the best place to be. Dont pay out my church. Anne is not a member, ans yes she was in a porn-like movie.

Gerry Butler "sexiest man on earth!"

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[–] everpure_17 19 years ago

Watch yourself elf_lover1. People do leave the church as a result of something they read on the internet. It starts a tiny little doubt and feeds on other areas where your testimony isn't the strongest. "By small and simple things, great things come to pass"-Alma
I have seen it happen many times before when people get obssessed w/ anti-church literature. Know enough that you can correct peoples inaccurate assumptions, but focus more on what the church is about and it's history then what others are wrongfully saying it is. Do you catch the drift?

[–] ZaneyMcBanes 19 years ago

The whole Anne Morman started as a rumor but oh if she was...*_*. Don't read that stuff elf_lover1, nobody is strong enough to read material that is against their religion and not be affected and eventually you don't know what to believe. Trust me it happened to me.

[–] gax3000 19 years ago

I grew up with Annie in Short Hills/Millburn, NJ and have known her since she was 8. For the record, she's not a Mormon.

[–] jensenbilan 19 years ago

I'm a mormon, born in Philiphines, now in Hong Kong.

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[–] crazze 19 years ago

Finland in tha house! <- LDS

[–] tickledpink332 18 years ago

thats nothing I live in LAS VEGAS and I am LDS!!!

Im sure she is not, its called acting y'know!

There are TONS of Mormons in Las Vegas, btw

[–] blondefreak06 18 years ago

Im not trying to start a fight, but that whole "there is no corruption" in the church is a lie. Every man is a sinner and therefore there will be corruption. As a Christian I see those splinter groups like Tom Green and other polygamists as LDS just like the non-Mormon world, even if yall dont consider his sect to be. It matters how the Christians and other religions see you not just how you see yourselves. I am highly prejudice against Mormons, but im working on getting over it, Its just that I grew up in a town in Virginia (where there is a Mormon college SVU) where half the population was Mormon and they treated the rest of us like we were dirt since we werent LDS. Thats just my view point and im working on it.

[–] tickledpink332 18 years ago

umm, that makes no sense.... maybe you should go back to school....

[–] UltimateJoolsFan 18 years ago

I'm not going to say there is no corruption in the LDS church, because i'm sure there have been cases that I simply dont know of, and you're right, no one is perfect. But if it's a matter of seeing polygamists as LDS, well i think you should know we stopped that practice like 150 years ago and not because of all the persuecution that saints got from it. I think it's also important to understand the principle of why that practice was allowed in the first place.
As a Ancient Historian in my last year of High School, we've been discussing polygamy when talking about Ancient forms of marriage. i know even then in Ancient History where everyone was corrupt and had no morals (a big generalisation but that's what it feels like sometimes in calss) it wasn't widely practiced, but recently i read an autobiography of a woman who was the seventh wife of a man. She was LDS.
In the early days of the church when, because of persecution, the Saints were trekking to Utah, there was a lot of death and a lot of poor people. (let's not get into that Evil and Suffering debate that I've been studying in religion at my Catholic school). This woman became a widow, and she also had no children or any family left. In order to be able to live, she married a wealthy man who already had six wives so that she wouldn't die of starvation and because of the elements. Because of this woman (true story) there is a lot more freedom for women today.
Polygamy was there to look after the widows/poor and only in specaily circumstances did people have many wives.
AS a Christian (which I am) I can see the compassion in this, and I shared it with my class, and they all saw why it was a sensible thing. Those splinter groups have nothing to do with it. Anyone who practives polygamy now who's a member i'm pretty sure that they get excommunicated.
I'm glad your working to get over it. You should come over to Australia, my wards the best! we have such wonderful people there. I don't know what's up with the Virginia people, but like you said, no one is perfect.
I hope i dont come a cross as harsh or preachy anything, i just understand the whole principle better now where as before it was a concept I couldn't get my head around... me hopeless romantic :D

[–] hippyangel96 18 years ago

ha! NJ is backwater? NJ is minutes away from NYC, why don't you get your facts straight before posting such ignorant drivel? Backwater areas are areas like the Florida everglades, and certain areas in the southern states where people are poor and don't have much money or education. These areas need help, not your scorn. But certainly NJ would not be considered backwater by any stretch of the imagination. Your 'opinions' are not only false, but they are not facts, and therefore should not be presented as such. In fact, maybe you just shouldn't post at all. This is a forum for discussion of movies. Not religions, and certainly not a forum for broad generalizations and insulting people's home states/countries.

[–] chokesamfreedman 18 years ago

I wouldn't really call the Everglades area "backwater", considering I live in an extremely developed area thats less than a mile away from the glades themselves. The highway forms a solid border between here and the wetlands.

I assume you were referring to the areas by the Everglades, because there is really nothing of any sort in the wetlands. Maybe secret gator-towns.

It's actually rather sad; because all the development is forcing us to drain and build on more and more wild areas every day.

Well, continue rocking.

[–] everpure_17 18 years ago

I live in VA, and I can't say anything for the people you are talking about, but our leaders stress greatly that we shouldn't look down or think we are better than people of other faiths--they all have some truth to them--but then just as in all religions you find people who are prejudiced to other religions. I'm sorry that your past experiences have made such a bad reflection on our religion and I applaud you for seeing past that and trying to see that not everyone is like that who's LDS.
with some movies, you merely watching people get paid to read lines

[–] johnnycastellanos 18 years ago

about 65% of Utah's population is Mormon and only 45% of the population of Salt Lake City is Mormon. I have visited Utah a few times because I have relatives there;One married a Mormon girl. And, it's fairly obvious that Mormons don't have to live in Utah. Just look at the missionaries, kids. They are obviously trying to convert people to their faith. Did the converts in "The Other Side of Heaven" fly to Utah after they were converted? I've been looking into the Mormon faith and i realize that all religions have certain backdrops that shame them and corruption that plague them, but that is where a person's faith must come into play. I am not a Mormon, though.

[–] ribena58 18 years ago

Just thought I'd keep the train going...proud to be LDS for nearly 2 years, baptised at 18 and I'm from London, England.

[–] pocahedgie 18 years ago

I know that a lot of Church members can be cold to people of other religions sometimes. At the same time, I know so many members of the Church who are so kind to others and so accepting of other people. I struggled with this myself- feeling like members of the Church were self-righteous and closed-minded- until I really looked at myself and realized the reasons that I, as a Mormon, could be seen in that way. I was somewhat stand-offish toward people not of my faith because I believed that no one but Mormons liked Mormons and that they all thought I was going to go to Hell- this is the feeling I got from the Protestant people I grew up around in Missouri, I had a difficult time separating some of the things that others did from who they were, and so it was difficult for me to be open-minded to others. When you feel like people aren't going to accept who you are just because of what you believe in- it's difficult not to be cold to others. You don't know who you can trust and you hesitate to make friends outside of your Mormon community, because once they find out you're Mormon, they'll probably turn on you. I think a lot of Mormons spend a good majority of their lives trying to get over those feelings and trying to learn how to let the negative things said about us not bother us. It's really hard. But the church itself doesn't teach any doctrines about hating or shunning people of other religions. Our prophet constantly talks about being kind and embracing people from all walks of life. He himself id good friends with Mike Wallace and Larry King, both Jews.

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[–] calsweety823 18 years ago

u might think again..

http://www.contenderministries.org/mormonism.php

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[–] calsweety823 18 years ago

-Joseph Smith said that tall men dressed as Quakers live on the moon.
-Brigham Young said that men live on the sun, as well.
-Joseph Smith prophesied that Jesus would return by 1891.
-Brigham Young prophesied that the Civil War would not free the slaves.

some of many false prophecies of your religion

real christianity has no false prophecies. every single prophecy made in the old testiment about the Messiah are true in the life of Jesus

Born of a Virgin
Isaiah 7:14, "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."
Matthew 1:18, 25, "This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary...was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit... But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."

Son of God
Psalm 2:7
Matthew 3:17
Genesis 22:18
Matthew 1:1,

Son of Isaac
Genesis 21:12
Luke 3:23-34

House of David

Jeremiah 23:5
Luke 3:23-31

Born at Bethlehem
Micah 5:2
Matthew 2:1

Deuteronomy 18:18
Matthew 21:11

He shall be a Priest
Psalm 110:4

Hebrews 3:1
Hebrews 5:5-6

He shall be a King
Psalm 2:6
Matthew 27:37

He shall judge
Isaiah 33:22, "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; it is he who will save us."

John 5:30, "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."

He would be preceded by a Messenger
Isaiah 40:3, "A voice of one calling: 'In the desert prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God.'"

Matthew 3:1-2, "In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea and saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.'"

Rejected by His own people
Isaiah 53:3, "He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not."

John 7:5, "For even his own brothers did not believe in him."
John 7:48, "Have any of the rulers or the Pharisees believed in Him?"

His side pierced
Zechariah 12:10, And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one mourns for an only son.

John 19:34, "Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water."

Crucifixion
Psalm 22:1, 11-18, "For the director of music. To the tune of "The Doe of the Morning." A psalm of David. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?...Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan. Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing."

Luke 23:33, "When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals -- one on his right, the other on his left."
John 19:33, "But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs."
John 19:23-24, "When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom. Let's not tear it, they said to one another. "Let's decide by lot who will get it." This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled which said, "They divided my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing." So this is what the soldiers did."

[–] trunkyelder 18 years ago

I COULD rip your anti-Mormonisms to shreds. I COULD supply documentation that those assertions are all lies. I served a mission in Texas and believe me, drivel like that are a dime a dozen. Nothing unique or innovative. I have heard all of those many times and are so easy to refute that it's laughable. I will not respond though, because like the anti's I've met, I will not bring the spirit of contention in. Just like the Sadduccees and Pharisees of old, you try to ensnare other systems of belief in your feeble traps. You purvey religious pornography without sympathy. You should be ashamed of yourself.

P.S---Anne Hathaway should be a member :)

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[–] emmys314 18 years ago

Wow, I just looked at this message board because I was interested in the movie.. and stumbled upon a HUGE arguments about Mormons! Yes, I'm Mormon.. living in CT. I didn't read every single post here, but would like to say to girlfriendmb87 that pretty much everything you mentioned about us is incorrect. Haha, you "do your research?" Where is this information coming from exactly? If you want to know the truth about us try checking out the OFFICIAL church website- www.mormon.org

[–] girlfriendmb87 18 years ago

How about the history books? There is no record of any sort of tribe the mormons mentioned in the book of mormon. No proof exists yet the bible is very accurate in its historical content. Of course the mormon chruch isn't going to tell you this, they want the 15 percent of ur income. And Yes, i've read the book of mormon, I take it as seriously as Lord of the Rings

[–] emmys314 18 years ago

Uh huh. You've read the Book of Mormon.. okay. You seem to know a lot about the church (all though most is wrong) except that you have those numbers there wrong, buddy. Guess you don't know everything, now do you? It's not 15%

Haha, oh yes, the church always tells non members "secrets" about the church, so they can take our money! I'm still wondering where you found this information. Ask any intelligent person-- the OFFICIAL website (meaning it even has .org after it) will give you the correct answers.

[–] girlfriendmb87 18 years ago

".org" yes a cult is defined under as an organization. I've asked intelligent ppl, they agree with me. Offical website, yeah right, offical cult.

How about you ask some historical scholars about evidence that the so called jaredites and nephites existed? Oh yeah cause your a tool.

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[–] girlfriendmb87 18 years ago

they are trying to force their beliefs on them!! don't do it!!

and im not in any religion. I choose to make my own beliefs instead of following for my morals. When you do that, you actually have a better satisfatction. But when ur in a cult, ur life isn't ur own.

I don't care about ur meaningless life. Go off and have 5 babies like every mormon family I have ever known. Ill just be the one who changes the world.

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[–] emmys314 18 years ago

Hah.. yeah, good luck in that "changing the world."

Being in a church doesn't mean "your life is not your own" as you say. The church gives guidelines that will help you. For example-- the Ten Commandments says Thou Shalt Not Steal. It is helping us in a way that we are obeying God, AND if you don't follow it you can end up in trouble with the law. See what I mean? It is your OWN CHOICE if you will follow the rules, not the churches, so it isn't controlling or restricting us.

I'm interested in what your "morals" are,, and why you think you get a better satisfaction from them..?

And no, not all families have five children, you should really stop stereotyping every single person in the church, or is that one of your morals?

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] emmys314 18 years ago

Just because it's not against the law, that doesn't make drinking, smoking, and caffiene OK. In this case, your own health is at risk. All three are terrible addictives that can lead to health problems. Obeying the rules not to do these things will keep you safe, healthy, and happy. From not obeying the rules, people end up in consequences that aren't good -- like if someone crashed their car in a DUI accident, or have tar-filled lungs from smoking, or ended up as a pregnant teenager because they didn't obey the law of chastity. Are these the types of things you want? Because this is what can happen when you don't follow the rule. God isn't trying to restrict you, he's trying to help you.

[–] girlfriendmb87 18 years ago

Actually, a little bit of alcohol is actually good for you.

lol not every teenager who has sex gets pregnant, only the stupid ones who don't know about birth control.

But its so obvious you were spoon fed that its not even funny

[–] emmys314 18 years ago

The only 100% safe birth control is abstinence.

[–] girlfriendmb87 18 years ago

Joseph smith attacked with force a newspaper that pointed out the faults in mormonism and was put in jail where he belonged. If mormonism was the true religion, he would have just let it be. He was a criminal in a country that allows freedom of religion, he is not a martyr

had nothing to do with religion, just selfishness and lies

[–] trunkyelder 18 years ago

I have read this thread for the past week with great interest. I want to commend my LDS sisters for their knowledge, courtesy, and integrity. My advice is to treat the detractors with kindness. One of our Articles of Faith states (I will paraphrase) that we claim the priviledge of worshipping almighty God according to the dictates our own hearts, and allow all men the same priviledge, let them worship, how, what, or where they may. I am willing to let you worship what you believe to be true and share my beliefs with you, all we ask is the same respect. There have been many dispersions cast on Joseph Smith, each of these points are decades old and have been debated. I could answer each of these points thoroughly, however, would you be willing to listen? I don't know where you've received your information. Perhaps it could have been a pastor, friend, a falling out with an LDS friend. You could have been curious and found the Anti sites online. I served a two-year mission in the Bible Belt of Texas. I spoke to many "anti" ministers and churches. I've heard every allegation in the book. Alas, I was able to find an answer to all. If you are truly interested, I will post those websites or answer those concerns for you. However, in order to do so, you will have to really want to know. In the end, many of the "anti" churches and preachers were scared of us because we were a threat to their livelihood, and were told as much. I came to Christ when I was 23. Before him, I wasn't such a good person. However, through the miracle of repentance, and a change of heart, I am living a life of true liberation. I feel the blessings of Christ and the wonderful news from the prophets of our day. Again, I commend my sisters in the Gospel. The detractor, I have no doubt you are also a very good person, the challenge is up to you. Hurrah for Israel,

J. Feagin

[–] jesebelle1-1 18 years ago

And as we can see....abstinence has worked SOOOOO well on the American population!! *very very dry tone of voice* I truly hate to be the one to point this out, but abstinence and teenagers rarely go together. Even when they truly make the attempt, it often fails, hormones being what they are. Isn't it more intelligent to inform them, pack them down with information (and for Todd's sake every form of birth control that is on hand) and show them how to PROPERLY use it? Because yes, abstinence is a hundred percent affective, but only if a horny hormonal teenager has vast amounts of self control. I don't know many of those, really. I certainly didn't when *I* was a teenager.

And I'm not just talking about the 'good kids' who go to church or whatever fulfills that role for you, frankly they are all good to me but my religious believes do not enter into whether or not a child is 'good'. I'm talking about all teenagers. The ones that come from whole families, healthy families, and dysfunctional as all Hades families. Because the ones that are dysfunctional are just as likely to break under the yokel of physical needs as a kid who comes from a happy two-parent two car family. I know, I know just how many of my friends had sex in highschool, how many didn't, how many wanted to and just couldn't for various reasons, and how many got pregnant because they weren't careful enough. And those are the ones I wanted to bash in the head for not taking better precautions, for believing 'oh it can't happen to me'. Because they ALL believe that in their heads in truly unbelievable proportions even if they don't realize it. They have an infalliability complex about them, until it DOES happen to them and suddenly it's "Oh *beep* What now?"

So yeah, abstinence is a great idea...just doesn't work so well in practice (or non-practice, as it were...*wry*).

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] calsweety823 17 years ago

Missionaries:
(Knock, Knock) Hello, we represent the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We would like to tell you about a wonderful program for families called "Family Home Evening." May we come in for a few minutes?

Christian:
Just a minute, let me get my Bible. (Christian leaves the door and returns with a Bible.) Perhaps you could answer a question for me - Is Mormonism based on the Bible?

Missionary:
Oh yes! The Bible is one of our standard works. (The other three are: The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.)

Christian:
I understand Mormonism teaches, "AS MAN IS, GOD ONCE WAS, AS GOD IS, MAN MAY BECOME." Is this true?

Missionary:
Yes, we teach that.

Christian:
In other words, God wasn't always God, there was a time when he was just a man, and he progressed to become God. Is this true?

Missionary:
(Reluctantly) Yes, this is Mormon doctrine.

Christian:
(Handing his Bible to the missionary) Would you please read Psalms 90 verse 2 and tell me how this verse fits Mormon doctrine?

Missionary:
"Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Well . . . Uh . . .I'm not sure.

Christian:
According to this verse, how long will God be God?

Missionary:
To everlasting.

Christian:
According to this verse, how long has God been God?

Missionary:
Uh.. Well... it says from everlasting.

Christian:
You mentioned earlier that Mormonism was based on the Bible. Doesn't this verse refute the teaching of the Mormon Church that God wasn't always God and was at one time just a man?

Missionary:
Uh...Uh... What about the two sticks in Ezekiel?

Christian:
That's a very good question. After we discuss this most important teaching about God, let's look at the two sticks mentioned in Ezekiel. Let's reconsider the statement, "AS MAN IS, GOD ONCE WAS; AS GOD IS, MAN MAY BECOME." Doesn't this indicate that there were gods before our God, there will be gods after our God, and in fact, there are many gods?

Missionary:
Yes.

Christian:
Would you please read Isaiah 43:10 for me and explain how Mormon doctrine deals with this verse?

Missionary:
"Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." I don't know. I've never seen that verse before.

Christian:
Would you read and explain Isaiah 44:6 then?

Missionary:
"Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." This probably means there is no other God that pertains to this world.

Christian:
But it doesn't say that, does it?

Missionary:
Well, no.

Christian:
Tell me - Does your God know everything?

Missionary:
Certainly! He's all knowing.

Christian:
Would he know if other gods exist?

Missionary:
Of course.

Christian:
Read Isaiah 44:8 and see what God says about other gods.

Missionary:
"... Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Well. . Uh... The Bible has been copied and recopied so many times, it's just not trustworthy, besides, we only accept the Bible as far as it's translated correctly. (8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church.)

Christian:
Perhaps you could tell me where is it incorrectly translated and give me your documentation.

Missionary:
I don't know. I haven't been told.

Christian:
What about your prophet? Certainly he could give you a correct translation.

Missionary:
We!!... I TESTIFY TO YOU. I KNOW THE BOOK OF MORMON IS THE WORD OF GOD, I KNOW JOSEPH SMITH WAS A PROPHET OF GOD, I KNOW...

Christian:
(Interrupts testimony) Wait a minute! How do you know these things are true?

Missionary: Because I?ve prayed about it and the Holy Ghost has revealed to me these things are true.

Christian:
Do you know that nowhere in the Bible are we told to pray for an "inner feeling" to know if a prophet is a true prophet, or if a book is from God, or if a teaching is true? The Bible says in I John 4:1 - "... believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." Deuteronomy 13:1-5 gives a test for a true prophet. It says if a prophet tells us to go after a different God than the God of the Bible, that's a FALSE PROPHET! According to the Biblical test, Mormon doctrine and Joseph Smith FAIL THE TEST!

Missionary:
Thank you for your time. We had better go now.

Christian:
Before you go, I would like to tell you what Jesus Christ has done in my life. I have received his free gift of eternal life, based on the finished work at the cross. According to Ephesians 2:8,9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." I base my eternal destiny on the trustworthy word of God, the Bible. Also, I would like to give you these two tracts. You may think they are anti-Mormon, but the only quotes in them are statements from your own prophets and apostles, or the Bible. If you think they are in error, please come back and show me EXACTLY what is in error. I love both of you, and want you to know my Jesus.

Missionary:
Thank you. Good-bye

[–] calsweety823 17 years ago

http://www.challengemin.org/mormonch.html#Anchor-12879

look here.. everything is layed out

[–] calsweety823 17 years ago

i see that it is "all laid out" in this site...
but everything is supported by either Joseph Smith or Brigam Young's teachings..

the point is.. THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS!

what they say doesn't matter...

[–] dino-141 9 years ago

Well that is your opinion and of course you have a right to have it.
God Himself thinks differently though, because it was He who called Joseph Smith, Brigham Young as well as Thomas S. Monson, the current prophet.

[–] dino-141 9 years ago

Yeah right, that is exactly what the Bible teaches:
"And from this time forward, this book shall be your God instead of me, pray to it, and never, ever turn to me if you strive for wisdom.
Just rip out James 1:5 because that does not fit this new commandment"

No, the missionaries do not reply that the Church of Jesus Christ is based on the Bible, nor does Jesus Christ Himself.
It was Christ Himself who told Peter that His church would be built upon the rock that is revelation - and as we read in Acts Peter made a lot of experiences with that.

Your course of argumentation is very similar to the pharisees btw. They also rejected Jesus Christ by throwing their scripture and their interpretation on Him, denying His deity and the loads of revelations that followed and that we can find now in the New Testament.
History repeats itself.

[–] pocahedgie 18 years ago

Actually, many historians refute the historical accuracy of the Bible because there's not a whole lot of evidence out to validate it. I belive in the Bible, but what you said is incorrect. By the way, just for your curiosity, if you are curious, there is a lot of historical/archaeological evidence to back up the Book of Mormons. You can find it in FARMS research (look up their website) and in a book called "The Book of Mormon on Trial"

[–] katie_anne 18 years ago

I am a Latter-day Saint (Mormon) and:

I know that salvation comes only in and through the blood of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith was a Prophet like Moses, Abraham, or Isaiah, who's sole puropose is to teach and testify of Jesus Christ and bring men unto him.

I know that Joseph Smith was legally married to several women before his martyrdom. This fact has never been kept a secret from me.

I had an uncle who was excommunicate from the LDS Church, and we spoke regularly.

I have a 20 year old brother who is not now, nor will ever be, a missionary. I still love him and speak often with him. He is still an active member of our faith.

The practice of polygamy had been practiced by many of the Prophets of old, and was acceptable before God when he commanded it. For example, Abraham took another wife and had a child with her when Sarah was unable to have children.

What else have you got?

[–] rachy88 18 years ago

umm...maybe this is irrelevant and repetitive but...i just want to say that i am mormon. and i'm happy...and as far as i know...i haven't been brainwashed.

[–] girlfriendmb87 18 years ago

a brainwashed person wouldn't know he/she is brainwashed.

what about DNA evidence that proves the native americans came from asia and not the middle east?

what about crops and horses mentioned that didn't exist before the precolumbian days?

plz challenge me

[–] emmys314 18 years ago

"a brainwashed person wouldn't know he/she is brainwashed."

Making you legable to be a brain washed person, too. Brainwashed to believe everything against Mormons, that is.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] johnnycastellanos 18 years ago

it's funny when people claim that other people are brainwashed. How do you know that you yourself aren't brainwashed? It might be that you were trained to hate mormonism or just anything in general. Us americans could be brainwashed as a society into thinking that we're individuals and that we're a righteous nation. It's all up in the air so i dont think that mormons are brainwashed. They're just nurtured a different way for an obvious reason: they're Mormon, uh, so they're like going to abide by their guidelines of life just as a Muslim or a Catholic would.

[–] emmys314 18 years ago

Perfectly said, johnnycastellanos. =)

[–] LilTeapot 18 years ago

ROFL, this whole thread fills me with ironic laughter, but perhaps this post the most. Ahhh, good times, good times.

Why settle with words what you can settle with a flamethrower?

[–] pocahedgie 18 years ago

The middle East is in Asia.....and there were several groups of people that came from several different places. There are also studies that have been done comparing the similarity in facial structure of American indians and Jews

[–] tldsyouth 17 years ago

Hey girlfriendmb87

read this

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/DNA.shtml

http://comevisit.com/lds/bom-evid.htm

You'll be surprised how the book of mormon can be true!!

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] calsweety823 18 years ago

who do the mormons think Jesus Christ was?

and what exactly is the difference between what Christians and mormons believe?
there must be something.. there are so many arguments

[–] janaem15 18 years ago

I am a born again Christian and I believe the bible. Visit www.bible.ca It is a really good site about world religions. Oh, and I really liked this movie, but I do not believe Mormanism. I respect what they believe though.

The Bible
The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever."
Isaiah 40:8 NIV

The Bible
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Matthew 24:11 NIV

DIFFERENCES:
The Bible
Jesus is only head of church Col 1:18

Book of Morman:
Joe Smith is head of Mormon church D&C 28:2-6

The Bible:
"Jesus was born in Bethlehem" Mt 2:1 + Mt 21:17

Book of Morman:
"He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem" Alma 7:10

The Bible:
3 hours of darkness at crucifixion Lk 23:44

Book of Morman:
3 Days of darkness at crucifixion Hel 14:20-27

The Bible:
God is spirit without flesh &bones Jn 4:24; Lk 24:39

Book of Morman:
God has flesh and bones like man: D&C 130:22

The Bible:
Church began in 33 AD Mt 16:18 Acts 2

Book of Morman:
church began in 147BC, Mosiah 18:17

The Bible:
"disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" 40AD, Acts 11:26

Book of Morman:
Alma 46:13-16 supposedly written in 73BC refers to Nephites as Christians.

Pre-Existence

LDS - teach that everyone pre-existed - we all exist eternally.

Bible - Only Christ pre-existed - not man. (John 8:58; Col 1:17) We didn't have a spiritual existence prior to earth. (I Cor 15:46)

Fall [Of Man]

LDS - teach it brought mortality and physical death - not fallen nature - believe Adam was given two conflicting commandments and was supposed to fall.

Bible - God tempts no one. (James 1:13-14). Man is basically sinful. (Rom. 8:5-8; I Cor 2:14)

Sin

LDS - Specific acts - not man's basic nature.

Bible - We are in spiritual rebellion until conversion. (Eph 2:3; Rom 5:6). We do not just commit sins - we are basically sinful. (Matt 1:21)

Repentance

LDS - Repent of individual acts - not sinful nature.

Bible - Must repent of basic rebellion. (Jer. 17:9; Luke 5:32)

Atonement - Salvation By Grace

LDS - believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection - Salvation by grace is universal resurrection - beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven.

Bible - Salvation is not universal but based on belief of each individual. (Rom 1:16; Heb 9:28; Eph 2:8-9)

Redeemed

LDS - from mortal death only - not sinful rebellion or spiritual death.

Bible - Christ redeems from more than mortal death - redeems us from spiritual death. (Rom 6:23; Eph 2:1)

Gospel

LDS - Mormon Church system and doctrines.

Bible - Message of Christ's death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (I Cor 15:1-4; Gal 1:8)

Born Again

LDS - Baptism into LDS Church.

Bible - We are spiritually dead until our spiritual rebirth. (I Pet 1:23; II Cor 5:17)

True Church

LDS - Only Mormon Church - true church taken from earth until Joseph Smith restored it.

Bible - As a born-again Christian, we are part of God's Church. (I Cor 12:12-14; Matt 18:19-20; Matt 16:18)

Authority - Priesthood

LDS - believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc - have two-part system of priesthood - Melchizedek and Aaronic.

Bible - Christ brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the ONLY High Priest after manner of Melchizedek. (Heb 5:9; II Tim 2:2)

Baptism

LDS - Must be performed by LDS priesthood.

Bible - Emphasis is on Believer - not priesthood authority. (Mark 16:15-16)

Sons Of God

LDS - We are all literal spirit children of God.

Bible - We become a child of God at conversion. (I John 1:12)

Eternal Life

LDS - Exaltation in Celestial Kingdom - ability to bear children in heaven - must have a Temple Marriage.

Bible - Not limited to certain ones in heaven - no mention of parenthood or temple marriage but is given to ALL Christians. (I John 5:12-13)

Immortality

LDS - Universal gift - ability to live forever but not Eternal Life.

Bible - Makes no distinction between immortality and eternal life. (II Tim 1:10)

Heaven

LDS - Divided into three kingdoms - Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial - place for almost everyone (misuse of I Cor 15:40-41)

Bible - Only mentions two conditions - everlasting punishment or life eternal. (Matt. 25:31- 46)

Kingdom Of God

LDS - Means Celestial Kingdom - only those in Celestial Kingdom are in God's presence. Those in Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms aren't in presence of Father.

Bible - All redeemed will be in God's presence. (Rev. 21:1-3). All believers are part of Kingdom. (Matt. 13:41-43)

Hell

LDS - Hell as an institution is eternal - inmates come and go as in jail - don't spend eternity there - stay until one has paid debt to God.

Bible - No mention of people getting out of Hell. (Rev. 21:8; Matt 13:24-43 and 47-50; Luke 16:26)

Godhead

LDS - Father God is a resurrected man with physical body, Christ is a separate resurrected man with physical body. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body - 3 totally separate Gods.

Bible - God not a man. (Num 23:19). Only one God. (Isa 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22). Father is Spirit and Invisible (John 4:24; I Tim 1:17)

Holy Ghost

LDS - Is a separate God from Father and Son - different from Holy Spirit - Holy Ghost is a person - Holy Spirit is influence from Father and not personal.

Bible - Same Greek word used for Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit (I Cor 3:16 and 6:19).

Virgin Birth

LDS - believe God, as a resurrected, physical man, is literal Father of Jesus - same manner in which men are conceived on earth - believe Matt 1:18 in error.

Bible - says Mary was ". . . with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt 1:18)

[–] emmys314 18 years ago

Okay, well you obviously don't know everything from this website, which isn't even an official church site. The LEAST you could do is learn how to spell Mormon correctly! (Yes, the title of this thread is spelled wrong.)

[–] aleara_cerridwyn 18 years ago

He wouldn't marry her if he wasn't Mormon..common sense.
Funny how she isn't wearing any garments at the end of the movie though LOL.

[–] Tigatron1 17 years ago

" am a born again Christian and I believe the bible. Visit www.bible.ca It is a really good site about world religions. Oh, and I really liked this movie, but I do not believe Mormanism. I respect what they believe though.

The Bible
The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever."
Isaiah 40:8 NIV

The Bible
and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Matthew 24:11 NIV

DIFFERENCES:
The Bible
Jesus is only head of church Col 1:18

Book of Morman:
Joe Smith is head of Mormon church D&C 28:2-6

The Bible:
"Jesus was born in Bethlehem" Mt 2:1 + Mt 21:17

Book of Morman:
"He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem" Alma 7:10

The Bible:
3 hours of darkness at crucifixion Lk 23:44

Book of Morman:
3 Days of darkness at crucifixion Hel 14:20-27

The Bible:
God is spirit without flesh &bones Jn 4:24; Lk 24:39

Book of Morman:
God has flesh and bones like man: D&C 130:22

The Bible:
Church began in 33 AD Mt 16:18 Acts 2

Book of Morman:
church began in 147BC, Mosiah 18:17

The Bible:
"disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" 40AD, Acts 11:26

Book of Morman:
Alma 46:13-16 supposedly written in 73BC refers to Nephites as Christians.

Pre-Existence

LDS - teach that everyone pre-existed - we all exist eternally.

Bible - Only Christ pre-existed - not man. (John 8:58; Col 1:17) We didn't have a spiritual existence prior to earth. (I Cor 15:46)

Fall [Of Man]

LDS - teach it brought mortality and physical death - not fallen nature - believe Adam was given two conflicting commandments and was supposed to fall.

Bible - God tempts no one. (James 1:13-14). Man is basically sinful. (Rom. 8:5-8; I Cor 2:14)

Sin

LDS - Specific acts - not man's basic nature.

Bible - We are in spiritual rebellion until conversion. (Eph 2:3; Rom 5:6). We do not just commit sins - we are basically sinful. (Matt 1:21)

Repentance

LDS - Repent of individual acts - not sinful nature.

Bible - Must repent of basic rebellion. (Jer. 17:9; Luke 5:32)

Atonement - Salvation By Grace

LDS - believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection - Salvation by grace is universal resurrection - beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven.

Bible - Salvation is not universal but based on belief of each individual. (Rom 1:16; Heb 9:28; Eph 2:8-9)

Redeemed

LDS - from mortal death only - not sinful rebellion or spiritual death.

Bible - Christ redeems from more than mortal death - redeems us from spiritual death. (Rom 6:23; Eph 2:1)

Gospel

LDS - Mormon Church system and doctrines.

Bible - Message of Christ's death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (I Cor 15:1-4; Gal 1:8)

Born Again

LDS - Baptism into LDS Church.

Bible - We are spiritually dead until our spiritual rebirth. (I Pet 1:23; II Cor 5:17)

True Church

LDS - Only Mormon Church - true church taken from earth until Joseph Smith restored it.

Bible - As a born-again Christian, we are part of God's Church. (I Cor 12:12-14; Matt 18:19-20; Matt 16:18)

Authority - Priesthood

LDS - believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc - have two-part system of priesthood - Melchizedek and Aaronic.

Bible - Christ brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the ONLY High Priest after manner of Melchizedek. (Heb 5:9; II Tim 2:2)

Baptism

LDS - Must be performed by LDS priesthood.

Bible - Emphasis is on Believer - not priesthood authority. (Mark 16:15-16)

Sons Of God

LDS - We are all literal spirit children of God.

Bible - We become a child of God at conversion. (I John 1:12)

Eternal Life

LDS - Exaltation in Celestial Kingdom - ability to bear children in heaven - must have a Temple Marriage.

Bible - Not limited to certain ones in heaven - no mention of parenthood or temple marriage but is given to ALL Christians. (I John 5:12-13)

Immortality

LDS - Universal gift - ability to live forever but not Eternal Life.

Bible - Makes no distinction between immortality and eternal life. (II Tim 1:10)

Heaven

LDS - Divided into three kingdoms - Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial - place for almost everyone (misuse of I Cor 15:40-41)

Bible - Only mentions two conditions - everlasting punishment or life eternal. (Matt. 25:31- 46)

Kingdom Of God

LDS - Means Celestial Kingdom - only those in Celestial Kingdom are in God's presence. Those in Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms aren't in presence of Father.

Bible - All redeemed will be in God's presence. (Rev. 21:1-3). All believers are part of Kingdom. (Matt. 13:41-43)

Hell

LDS - Hell as an institution is eternal - inmates come and go as in jail - don't spend eternity there - stay until one has paid debt to God.

Bible - No mention of people getting out of Hell. (Rev. 21:8; Matt 13:24-43 and 47-50; Luke 16:26)

Godhead

LDS - Father God is a resurrected man with physical body, Christ is a separate resurrected man with physical body. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body - 3 totally separate Gods.

Bible - God not a man. (Num 23:19). Only one God. (Isa 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22). Father is Spirit and Invisible (John 4:24; I Tim 1:17)

Holy Ghost

LDS - Is a separate God from Father and Son - different from Holy Spirit - Holy Ghost is a person - Holy Spirit is influence from Father and not personal.

Bible - Same Greek word used for Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit (I Cor 3:16 and 6:19).

Virgin Birth

LDS - believe God, as a resurrected, physical man, is literal Father of Jesus - same manner in which men are conceived on earth - believe Matt 1:18 in error.

Bible - says Mary was ". . . with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt 1:18)"

I know an atheist who found this offensive...thats gotta tell you something about it.

[–] Jabberwocky_59 17 years ago

*snort* You know that the Bible has had words changed and some parts taken out right?

Yonder no sorghum stenches shut ladle gulls stopper torque wet strainers

[–] cbethany92 17 years ago

Holy shucks! This place is getting too heated up about the LDS religion (which I belong to). All the religions are based on the same Holy Bible. Now please, don't attack me because I don't want to be involved, I just want to point some stuff out.

[–] Ghost_Writer1 16 years ago

I find it interesting that you choose to gradually phase out lds scripture references as you go. As for the things that you do reference; I was handed the same exact list by someone while on my mission who got it off the internet and I suppose like him, you didn't actually look up the scriptures for yourself to verify. Just to let you know, it is wrong to present something as truth without studying the information on your own, and if you did study it and still persist then you are comitting an even greater wrong because the above references are blatantly taken out of context. I would also like to point out that every scripture that you quoted from the bible doesn't hurt the churches doctrine. We believe the bible and all of those verses you presented. The only differnce is in the interpretation. The only way to know for sure witch interpretation is correct is to go straight to the source and ask for yourself (James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God). The people in the LDS church are never scared to make that challenge and we (and the scriptures) promise that the earnest seeker will have the truth revealed to them. You don't even make that promise about your claims. You just expect people to take your word. If you are sincere, then I implore you to check your sources. If you only wish to lead people away then this message is for those who have ears to hear.