MovieChat Forums > Bonhoeffer: Agent of Grace (2000) Discussion > Violence - is it morally justifiable?

Violence - is it morally justifiable?



The movie's moral dilemma is whether violence can ever be justified. Bonhoeffer decides it can be justified if there is someone out there perpetrating particularly widespread violence (including killing) toward others - lots of others in Hitler's case.

In spite of Bonhoeffer's agonizing decision to conspire to get Hitler killed, I still am of the opinion that there were other more valid choices he or someone else could have made, that did not involve violence, and still attempt to remove Hitler from power.

Surely those who believe in Jesus would have a hard time finding a passage in the bible where he says violence is wrong unless you're up against someone like Hitler. And Jesus didn't preach "an eye for an eye."

I believe violence begets more violence, and the only truly effective way to stop violence is to stop doing it, and that means starting with ourselves. I believe it is important not to condone or perpetrate either physical violence including killing, or emotional violence - whether at home, in our communities, or on the world stage.

In the end, this movie shows a failure of people to come up with a more intelligent and nonviolent response to removing Hitler. Is there anyone out there who can use more thought and imagination than Bonhoeffer and his colleagues did, and think of a way that Hitler could have been stopped without attempting to kill him, and not perpetrate more violence? This is a particularly important question today for situations where people are dealing with those who have malevolent power over others.

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[deleted]

Good question. Would a kidnapping be justifiable? Maybe discredit or humiliate him? Wage an underground war to undermine him? This sounds like some of the stuff the CIA would try to do!!! To tell you the truth, killing him seems like the simplest and most direct solution. How would history have viewed all this if the assassination plot had failed?

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I just did some reading and there were 17 PLANNED attempts on Hitler's life. He had an uncanny knack for being in the just the wrong place at the right time. He didn't stick to a schedule and came and went by surprise. All of a sudden he would be surrounded by SS guards. He planned events like reviewing or being in parades, then changed his mind. I would guess that he knew not to make himself an easy target. There were almost 3000 conspirators (and supected conspirators) executed as the result of just 1 attempt. There were a lot of people in the resistance movement, many of them army conservatives that had some real power but the purges disjointed their efforts. I'll have to take the other side on the non-violence issue because it was clear to these people that Hitler was going to destroy Germany and kill an awful lof of people on both sides in the process and that is precisely what happened.

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This is just too interesting. Two things:
"Military conspiratorial groups exchanged ideas with civilian, political and intellectual resistance groups in the Kreisauer Kreis (which met at the von Moltke estate in Kreisau) and in other secret circles. Moltke was against killing Hitler; instead, he wanted him placed on trial. Moltke said, "we are all amateurs and would only bungle it". Moltke also believed killing Hitler would be hypocritical. Hitler and National Socialism had turned "wrong-doing" into a system, something which the resistance should avoid."
And... The conspirators compared themselves to citizens of Sodom/Gomorra who would be spared if only 10 righteous men were found and that Germany's guilt might be similarly dealt with if even only a few people tried to stop Hitler.

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The Bible is full of violence, especially the Old Testament. God was always smoting people. Even in the New Testament, He struck Annanias and Sapphira dead when they lied.

Bonhoeffer's decision to join the Resistance stemmed from his realization that Hitler had to be stopped. At that point, a non-violent solution was no longer possible; if indeed it had ever been. Had Hitler lived to face trial at Nuremburg, he would surely have been executed.

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So true. When jesus came. he ended the old laws. I did not agree where bonhoffer says it is worse to be evil then to do evil. Both are wrong. and i believe that is a scapegoat for doing evil.

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