"Whatever it is that YOU are getting off to, there are movies out there".
I wasn´t talking about myself, or viewers in general, but rather the performers performing it. And if you really think that everyone - or much of anyone, really - engaging in extreme sex acts is "getting off on it", then you´re hopelessly ignorant and naive. In fact, very few female performers are literally "getting off" on the most common, straight forward sex acts. Should be obvious enough that the industry is irresponsibly taking advantage of dumb, sometimes literally semi-retarded young women with little in the way of any integrity or self esteem, by casting them in unambiguously humiliating situations where they´re gangbanged, bukkaked, facef-cked to the point of vomiting, choked, spat and urinated on etc. It is ridiculous to suggest most them actually enjoy it - even if they eagerly coo so themselves as expected by their employers. And even if some do "get off" on such degradation, the proper thing to do would be to help them get psychiatric treatment, not exploit them for profit (and make no mistake, these industry sugar daddies do not agree with the spin they feed their so-called "stars" that end up babbling about degradation being cool, or fun, or normal, at all). Paid sex that blatantly crosses over to abuse and violence, is not normal.
"I don´t see your point".
Obviously. To reiterate - my point is that f-cking in public is culturally not normal or natural. If it were, most people would be rushing into porn
and only a minority would think that there´s something undignified about it. In reality, only a limited number of performers have no internal conflicts about their profession whatsoever - in an industry that, as noted, is dominated and run by males who hardly even bother to hide their misogyny and contempt for women who are making them money. I´m not at all anti-porn, mind you, but that don´t mean that I´m blind to the inherent peculiarities, potential problems and deviations from cultural norms that the profession involves. It´s not "evil" or anything like that, necessarily, but certainly not a "job as any other", evil. Some performers come to terms with it all right, but when even a pampered superstar like Jenna Jameson urges young girls contemplating a porn career, to keep away from the industry because of how brutal it can be, things can hardly be as innocent as that. It takes a strong character to emerge unscathed. It´s purely a male pipe dream that sees women in porn as nothing but happy, uninhibited party animals.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
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puschit-1
12 years ago
You totally misunderstood me. I tried to explain to you that there is a very broad spectrum of porn regarding content, quality and things the actors do or don't do. You picked the worst of the worst and assume that all and every in the industry work that way. And then pour some more generalisations on it. What you described will be degrading for most, but not all. And it isn't the norm either. It cannot because people like different things and many, including men, are turned down by the things you described.
Of course there are gulliable women lured into the industry with false hopes. But again, that's not different from regular actors. People are way too fast pointing out the negatives while never acknowleging the positives when it is about porn (or sex for that matter). Even when the same mechanics work in similar industries as well. I confronted you with actual numbers about suicides among actors but you just ignored them. Reminds of the debate about marihuana where the same people that condemn weed think it's okay that alcohol can be bought in the supermarket.
Anyway, I am just rambling at this point. The topic is too complicated, the positions too different and it's too hard for me to express what think in english. I won't be able to convince you of anything so I let it go.
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franzkabuki
12 years ago
"You picked the worst of the worst".
Yes, but in the latter part I did discuss the more common, mainstream porn that doesn´t involve outright perversion or humiliation and thought I drew a clear enough line between it and the extreme.
"What you described will be degrading for most, but not all".
Come on, it is even marketed as degradation. Also, if someone enjoys such indignities, it is precisely ´because´ it´s degrading by definition; it´d be a different deal if they engage in such acts privately, but if they´re stupid enough to indulge in it publically, someone should really take responsibility and intervene because these people obviously are not responsible and have no real idea what they´re getting themselves into or what the consequences are liable to be.
"That´s not different from regular actors".
For some super-tiny group of people, perhaps. Not for the 99,99% of the other folk, though.
"Never acknowledged the positives".
Such as? That they earn a good deal of money? There ARE no other "positives", at least from the performers point of view.
"I confronted you with actual numbers about suicides amongst actors".
No you didn´t; have no idea who you think you´re talking to. And while the numbers are generally disputable and the factual, statistics based reality difficult to discern, it is safe to say involvement in porn doesn´t exactly lessen the possibility of suicide or other manner of dysfunction. As for Karen Lancaume, the porn actress in question, then while the entire truth about her suicide is not known, involvement in public sex clearly seems to have played a role, even if a secondary one, considering her bitterness about the smut career, and the nature of the industry (as some interview snippet concerning the nature of the industry I somewhere read, clearly indicates). The very least we can say is that this line of work with its generally brutal environment is very much liable to compound whatever pre-existic emotional problems or addictions there are. Apparently, words from actual porn performers´ mouth count less than your idealistic fantasies and the pristine self image the industry peddles for business reasons.
"Reminds of the debate about marihuana where the same people that condemn weed think it´s okay that alcohol can be bought in the supermarket".
This doesn´t make any sense, because these issues are not even in the same ballpark (even if they might perhaps become comparable in the future - you know, when public sex ceases to be something out of the ordinary and parents happily plan their offspring´s future in smut as a respectable career choice. However, as long as the general perceptions held by the majority don´t change, porn will not be viewed as something remotely similar to "normal" acting). And yes, FWIW, marijuana has indeed been found scientifically less dangerous than booze - but then again, the whole drug policies in the Western world - or anywhere else - don´t make much logical sense.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
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