MovieChat Forums > Werckmeister harmóniák (2001) Discussion > Any intellectuals out there who didn't c...

Any intellectuals out there who didn't care for this?


In reading the many glowing and articulate reader reviews,I find myself quite surprised, not arrogant but humble. This film just did not resonate with me.
All of the positives- the premise, the allegory, atmosphere, cinematography- were overwhelmed by the overbearing length and repetition. It felt like one long somber note, and I know it will not stay with me. Ah well, I'm glad the creative and hard working director and film crew have so many appreciative IMDB fans for this labor of love.

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More to the point: any intellectuals out there, period?

Nothing left except Clorox bottles and plastic fly swatters with red dots on them!

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What a stupid, lazy answer!

look at this here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0249241/board/thread/71218657?d=181749322&p=3#181749322

And come back and criticise merely because your fragile ego is smarting :)

The challenge has been set!

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Actually it was an excellent answer. You're just a baby.

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Intelligence is not in words, but thoughts. Just something to consider.

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oh,gorbo, you say such nice things.

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[deleted]

I mean the film looked spectacular, the acting is good to very good, the hidden elements in the film are subtle and cleverly used but the repetitive use of long takes where literally nothing happens and the complete lack of plot or character development made the film drag and drag and drag and drag.

I may watch this again at some point and see what I missed but I will have to do a LOT of reading.

HELP ME!!! I need to know if I am alone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFzThGyt5vM

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YOU are going to have to do a LOT of smartening up, but have a nice love affair with film o phallus in the meantime :)

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did you delete him? Don't tell me that you did! Purporting to be an intellectual, but cowardly reverting to censure - PIG IDIOT.

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Maybe it works better for sensualists.

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now, that word intrigus me. tell me some other films that you think work well for sensualists. maybe i'll have found a word/'type' that helps define my likes/dislikes. thanks much.

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I just thought of it the other day - I suppose I mean sensualists wouldn't necessarily need films that have a strong narrative structure, or plot, action, or even make sense, just as long as the visual imagery is striking - a feast for the eyes, in short. So, films like "The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover", "Prosperos Books" (I went through a Peter Greenaway phase a while back), "Last Year in Marienbad", "Stalker", "Woman of the Dunes", Bela Tarr and Luis Buñuel films. Oh, and some Michael Haneke.

Not that some of these films don't make sense, but I don't think that is the primary reason why they please me, it is also because I find the images mesmerizing. Not that they aren't also fun to try to figure out, but I don't usually try to hard to make sense of them, it is enough that they are beautiful.

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what a very articulate explanation.this is a very important line of thought for me to consider in the areas of 'why we see films'; 'different ways of appreciating films' and 'what films mean to us'. i consider woman of the dunes and prospero's books to be two of the most memorable films i've experienced. last year... has been high on my list for a long time because i really have liked many of resnais' more recent pieces (mon oncle d'amerique esp.)and his Muriel is in my dvd player as we speak...
the others you mentioned are yet to be seen, though an early early v early
(35 yrs ago!)taste of bunuel didn't appeal to me......ha!
haneke-HOW i resented cache; the others disappeared in memory.

i guess when it boils down to it, for ME as a film viewer, it's the films that are both visually ,intellectually , and heartfully stunning- that go to the top of my list.and i become less tolerant/admiring of the ones that embody only one of those attributes. experiences like Cache and Days of Heaven- cause such disdain/resentment in me that it far overpowers the one or two positives of the film.

you have given me some suggestions; I have one for you. Leolo. very hard to find. one of the few films that became a bit of an obsession for me(transcribing the long poem, finding its translation, etc. oh my!) hope you can see it.
best to you.

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Thanks for the suggestion - Leolo sounds like a real gem. I will no doubt have some difficulty finding it in the UK, as it is only available in region 1. But it almost sounds like it is worth buying sight unseen?

If I may ask, why did you resent Cache? I thought Haneke broke a lot of rules in it, but in a good way, for me anyway. In Funny Games as well.

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i thought it played too many games w the audience.paticularly how the very very end explained an extremely implausible situation vis a vis the son and his cohort. i was fuming "ridicule" as i departed the cinema.
i have not seen funny games.

leolo- for me, obviously worth buying. a very bizarre unsettling movie in many ways however, just so you know. if taking a chance doesn't bother you, i say 'do!'. if so, plse tell me how you felt about it!( you can contact me via my imdb member pg).
best to you.

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[deleted]

idiot alert in previous post

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Film Ophile. You do not articulate what it is about Cache (Hidden) that you don't like. To say you were "fuming" and that the ending was "implausible" are insufficient and demand a more rigorous analysis.

In my opinion, Hidden is the best film of the 21st century. I cannot imagine a more sophisticated, cerebral and ultimately terrifying celluloid experience. Ostensibly, the film starts out as a thriller, but is much more than that. Over the course of the following couple of hours, Haneke taps into our collective consciousness and conveys to us our basest anxieties and fears without ever overtly vocalizing them. From the portentous opening long shot of the Laurent’s house, to the incredibly subtle ending (probably the most jaw-droppingly subtle ending ever), via one of the most shocking acts of violence ever committed to film, Hidden is never what it seems. The genius of the film though, is that it is executed in a way that is subtly aimed at what we, the viewer, bring to the table. Much has been made of political metaphor and motivation within the frame: the guilt of France following the shame of its involvement in Algiers. And yes, the POSSIBLE adversaries of the protagonist are indeed Algerian. POSSIBLE, because we are not sure. Not sure of where the film is going, what is really going on under the surface, or of who is watching who. Those who have analyzed and made sense of the film from a political context are missing 99.9% of its raison d ’etre. Not for nothing is the film called Hidden: what you see on the screen is not to be mistaken for the reality of Georges’ (or his adversaries) motivations.

If Hidden can be read as a thriller, then it contravenes all of the machinations of the genre. There is no music, scenes are long without the usual visual locus, there is no obvious plot as such, no noir atmosphere, no collective “ahhhhh, twas he what done it!” from the audience at the end. What we do get is layer upon layer of tension, the result of Haneke allowing his viewer to interpret the film’s clues in their own subjective way. A dozen different people could see and fundamentally understand Hidden, each with their own explanation of events. And each one of these people will not necessarily be wrong. It could be said that Hidden is more a whydunnit? than a whodunnit? This viewpoint is close but still lacking. Haneke constantly surprises us with where he takes us and he is always one or two steps ahead of his audience. Second-guessing is futile. And just when we think we have a handle on just what the hell is going on, the last frame of the film completely throws everything out of focus, forcing us to go back to the start and reflect on what has happened in a whole new way.

This is how I like films. This is how I think films should be. This is why I like Haneke, Tarr, Lynch, Jodorowsky, Noe...It's not about being exclusively sensual OR cerebral. These guys engage ALL of my critical senses.

You seem like an intelligent person, and I do not write this to try to make you (or anyone else) change their opinions about Hidden (Cache). I just wanted to counter your assertion that the film is crap and doesn't make sense.

"What's your name?"
"F uck you. That's my name"

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I like your style, but film o phile deserves a slap, not help.

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yes, film ophile is a total idiot. Or are you referring to someone censored - are you with the fascists, or with the thinkers??

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Yeah, Cache is kinda lousy.

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You might add Tartovsky and Lynch to this list.

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You might add Andrei Tarkovsky and David Lynch to this list.

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I just don't get why you indulge this person this way. I appreciate very much your comment - but you enter a dialogue with someone you haven't seemed to notice, has a passive aggressive LACK of anything sensual. Don't think I'm some hypocrite - what I do is aggressive, without false pretences, ie. the passive part. I just don't like these types (the original post jerk) who kind of go fishing out there, for people who agree and implicitly help support their ugly narcissism, (yes, there are narcissisms that are NOT ugly.)
In few words you seem to have far more intellectual capacity, but in your democracy / diplomacy, you end up celebrating this pig who, in reality, closes off intellectual discussion. I like/d your style, but stop being a doormat to lesser beings. Please.

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I wonder if you've changed your mind since April. The pace of the film leaves a space for the viewer to bring their questions, reflections, identification etc to think about what they see on the film. The humble silence you write about sounds like the perfect place to begin your personal enquiry. I saw the film last night for the first time, and was confronted with my humility, and my lack, too. What happened in Hungary? What might it be like to live in a country sandwiched between fascism and communism, where people lose a sense of who they are. I found the scene with the chief of police, dancing drunk with his gun and another man's wife, almost unbearably anxiety provoking. Frightening to think what happens in a country when people lose the sense of the structures they have built that allow them to live together at least a little bit. The scene with his children out of control was even more uncomfortable.

Music as a structuring metaphor might be worth more thought too - you say the film did not resonate with you. It rather sounds like it did. The silence that you heard in your soul might be unfamiliar, what you already did with it (your post) suggests it moved you more than you know.

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thank you for the thoughts.i'm so glad that it worked for you. the world certainly needs adventurous filmmakers and they in turn certainly need appreciative audiences. it just did not work for me. i did and do and will - remember the eye of the whale, but that's pretty much it. thanks again.

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and what do you make of it - this eye of the whale? The director said that the whale was one of three main characters in his film, each of whom have a deep connection with eternity. It will be interestng to hear what your personal response to it has been; I hope you will say more.

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janet, i simply saw an icon of wisdom and sadness, maybe because i have been interested in and felt simpatico w/ whales for a very long time.

sorry, but this is end of conversation w/ me about this film. too many other films to learn about- that i really connected with. but glad you liked it.

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"Any intellectuals out there who didn't care for this?Re: Any intellectuals out there who didn't care for this?"

No, but I am an Intellectual model #7.53. Intellectual models built after me have a foreign film appreciation randomizer unit resulting in a 50% likelihood of loving or loathing a film. (Models #9.4 and newer are required to base friendships on these randomized whims, so I can still be friends with people who don't like Bela Tarr.)


______________________________________________________________________
"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad." ~ Samuel Goldwyn

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oob, thank you for that laugh. i was feeling a little low and now my day is going to be much better because of you!!th you.

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[deleted]

I'm about half-way through a PhD in philosophy, so if that qualifies me...I thought it was pretentious and overwrought.

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No, it doesn't qualify you. For anything.

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You and me baby. But could you use your insight to vilify the original post - a quite despicable narcissist and sadly, not really smart at all. (All what could be smart used to maintain a kind of popularity - what the hell is with all the censorship on this post!?)

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I know you made these posts quite a while back, but you are the definition of pseudo-intellectual. If you are going to pretend to be smart to a whole bunch of people on an online message-board, at least check that what you are posting is legible.

"I would never want to belong to any club that would have someone like me for a member."

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wake up. NO, it does not.

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All of the positives- the premise, the allegory, atmosphere, cinematography- were overwhelmed by the overbearing length and repetition.


I think his use of repetition is wonderful. Length and repetition is precisely what Bela Tarr is about. He constantly combines long shots and ultra-slow camera movements with repetitive sounds and music to create a hypnotic effect. For me, watching Tarr's films is like being in a state of trance, which helps me to view his work on a more intuitive level rather than on one that depends too much on rational analysis.

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