MovieChat Forums > Tmavomodrý svet (2001) Discussion > "To lend and to borrow"

"To lend and to borrow"


Well folks, I am from Slovakia, so I'll just explain this. I haven't seen this movie with subtitles. In original version there are NO subtitles...if you don't understand English or German....well, neither did many of Czechoslovakian pilots, so what's up? It is really perfect and realistic.
But to the point: I don't know how it was translated, but just in case you didn't understand: in Czech (or Slovak) there is only one word for both "lend" and "borrow". I am just trying to excuse Karel. Maybe he looked stupid or what, but the point of this was how difficult it was for our boys to learn so many things at once. If you have any question about translating or anything else, just ask. (For instance the situation in Czechoslovakia after 1948 and so on)

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Hey thanks for the information! It didn't really make Karel look all that stupid... different languages are always tough to learn. Actually, at the time I saw this movie, I was trying to learn Czech. I've always wanted to travel there, and I'm really interested in learning the language... Unfortunately things have been really busy in school, and I haven't been able to learn much more. Anyway, thanks for the clarification. This was a beautiful film, and I've been raving about it for ages now.

-Kayla-

"Remember, there's nothing wrong with the weird..."

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Hello! I've just seen this movie and I musst say I liked it very much. I've lately become a bit interested in how different nationalities helped the british in the BoB. I doubt people find Karel stupid. Most people know how hard it is to learn a new language, (and I'm from Sweden so I can't write that good english either).. But now to my question. I know the basic history about (Czechia?) and Slovakia in the 20th century but what happened to the pilots, they musst have been let out eventually? And are there any other good movies on the same theme? My interest started after I had read the book (final combat if you transalte it directly from swedish) by Wskuniczak, which is a book about polish pilots in BoB, and seen the movie Battle of Brittain which I've heard they shall make a remake of?!

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There is one other Czech movie dealing with Czech pilots in Great Britain during the ww2. Its name is "Nebesti jezdci", which means something like 'The Sky Riders' and in my opinion this movie is much better then 'Tmavomodry svet'. I guess however that, unfortunately, it's not that easy to get hold of it in other countries, but if you ever have a chance to see that, I recommend it.

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There is one of my favorite books of all times: 'Gloria in excelsis' (author Miljenko Jergovic) and part of the story is about Croatian pilot who flew for RAF and has been monitored by the communists after the war. He is constantly drunk and can't make up his mind where he belongs...

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Hi guys, I'm Czech and it is funny to read this on imdb.com. The problem about "pujcit, pujcit si" you hited off (rypadielko + svatto) exactly.

And nice is the continue in the movie, talking about "to land" and "to lend" :-)

Cool movie, Spitfires are the nicest planes of the world ever. Fun from Czech. Every war fun must see!!!

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In the version I saw on IFC over the weekend it said the pilots were released in 1951 (right after the movie was set) but they were still under observation. It said they weren't fully rehabilitated until 1991.

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he didn't look stupid, in fact a lot of native 'English' speakers don't seem to understand the difference between the use of 'lend' and 'borrow' either...

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A lot of native English speakers don't seem to understand the difference between "borrow" and "keep" either. Many of us find that out by lending yard tools to our neighbors :)

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Hi, your nickname "rypadielko" means "provocateur", so I am going to be little provocative here. You´ve said that "in Czech (or Slovak) there is only one word for both lend and borrow". That´s all very nice, except it isn´t true in fact. Lend - vypožièa si, borrow - požièa (similary in czech). But don´t take me too serious, I am circumstantially a teacher. (My english may not be too perfect also, so I am not going to be too cocky :-))

And one more thing just for you, my compatriot (so I´m going to be little rude to the others, I hope they´ll forgive me) - asi si nevidel film v kine, ale na nejakej pirátskej kópii, však? V kine totiž boli anglické èasti samozrejme titulkované, takže nie je pravda, že v originálnej verzii žiadne neboli :-) Dúfam ale, že si sa neurazil, som rád, že som tu narazil na krajana.

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Yes, it's true that we have two words (I'm Czech, so for me vypujcit a pujcit), but pujcit is usually used in both meanings.

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i ve got nothing to say about lend and borrow, i would just like to say its really great movie, i wached it 3 times in one week, funny but i did understand few things in czech (i m from slovenia), you czech can be really proud of it, i got one more question i really like theme song can you give a title or hint where to get it. Thanks

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I suppose you mean the song, which Machaty plays on piano... Its title is the same as title of the movie Tmavomodry svet [Tmavomodrý svět] and was written by Jaroslav Jezek [Ježek] and recorded sung by Jan Werich. I think you would be able to find it in some peer-to-peer nets in MP3. I myself have got it only on MC, otherwise i would rip and send to you.

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In legal terminology there is a diference
Vypujcit si - for example car - i return same car that i borrowed
Pujcit si - for example eggs - i eat them, then i buy new ones nad return them

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Hello svatto and stareko. Nice to see you here guys. Just to be polite to our friends I won't switch to Slovak.
Well, you got me. There actually are two words, but...do you really use them correctly? I always say "pozicat". And to the teacher...I am not only rypadielko, but a lawyer too, so I can tell you there is a difference between the words "vypozicat" a "pozicat", but a little different from what you mean. One of them means to lend and want back the same thing (for instance the car), and the other one means to lend something and want back the same amount and quantity (for instance some money, sugar or what).
I am from Košice, where are you guys from?
I am not annoyed at all. And my nick rypadielko doesn't only mean provocateur, it also means, that every statement of mine is a little masterpiece (dielko).
I saw the movie on a CD, I wasn't at the movies, but since I understand both English and German I've enjoyed it even better.

That night,I thanked God for seeing me through that Day Of Days and prayed I'd make it through D+1.

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Hey there, teacher is back :-)))
Yes, you were right about all that "vypožièa" and "požièa" stuff, although I am not sure if you can "vypožièa" (borrow) something to someone. You can borrow things only FROM someone and that´s my point. Even if you use "požièa" for both meanings, lend and borrow (as many people including myself), still there is a difference - when you are borrowing something, you´ll say "požièa si" (that "SI" is very important).
So much for this linguistic disquisition. Movie was great, personally I loved the score and cinematography.
So, you are from Košice? Nice, I was born there, but now I live in Hurbanovo (Zlatý Bažant - does it ring a bell?) :-)
It was nice to see you here again, Masterpiece ("every statement of mine is a little masterpiece" - THAT WAS GREAT !!!)

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Good to see you around again.
Well, by the terms of our law, you really CAN "vypožièa" something to someone. It takes two different contracts, one of them is "požièa" and the other one is "vypožièa".
I'll bet we all are pretty tired by this topic so let's quit right now :)
Well, this movie is among the best ones. I wouldn't call it absolutely realistic, but it was perfectly made and I like it very much.
Well, call me rypadielko please for this is my nick and almost my trademark...I just wanted to explain all the different meanings hidden in it. But sure, you were the first to translate our foreign friends it's real meaning, that is provocateur :)
Actually, what do you teach? Let me guess......English and Slovak? :)

That night,I thanked God for seeing me through that Day Of Days and prayed I'd make it through D+1.

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Hello rypadielko.
Wow, I take that as a compliment. No, I don´t teach English. I am suposed to teach Art and Slovak (in this one you were right) at elementary school, but now I do teach almost everything except music classes at special school (I haven´t much work opportunities arround here). So, that´s me. Now I am totally exposed, only thing you don´t know about me is size of my boots. How do you lawyers do that? Everyone is telling you their secrets just like that :-)))

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Actually, I DO know the size of your boots. You know, the Slovak Intelligence Service knows everything and needs lawyers. We have already tracked you down, so be careful :))

Well, I know how the situation in on our work-market is....I was forced to stay at Bratislava for almost half of year until I managed to find a job here in Košice. Your English is pretty good and I really mean it.
Actually, I have taught English, so I guessed we were collegues.
Sorry if I've asked too many questions, I was just curious....but on the other hand you are free not to answer anything, so for me it's just the fun. Have a nice day.

That night,I thanked God for seeing me through that Day Of Days and prayed I'd make it through D+1.

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Well, what size are my boots then? :-)))

So, you think my English is pretty Good? Thanks, I really appreciate that. I´d say the same about you of course, but I never actually studied English, so I can´t really tell if is that so :-) (All I know is from movies mostly.) But I´ll bet you are a hell of a lawyer :-)))))))

And I´m not bothered with answering questions - after all i am a teacher.

Have a nice day too and I wish you PLENTY of easter eggs!

(BTW, that phrase at the bottom of your messages, where is it from?)

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Well, let me not trust you that much...I really can't believe you learned English just from the movies. You seem to know the gramtics etc....I really can't believe. Please don't take me wrong, but it is quite surprising. Well, have you spent any time abroad then?
As for my English...I am not a pro, but as long as my buddies here at imdb can understand me it's okay.
Thanks for the compliment, I don't think I am too good lawyer. I am sure you understood the SIS thing was just a joke.
I am glad you asked me about the phrase...actually it's from a great mini-series called Band Of Brothers. I highly recommend it to you. It was translated as "Bratstvo neohrozených". If you can get it by any means, well, do it.

That night,I thanked God for seeing me through that Day Of Days and prayed I'd make it through D+1.

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[deleted]

Well, I really really really never studied English (and I´ll bet some IMDB visitors would say "that explains a lot") and I also haven´t been in foreign countries for longer period... except Germany perhaps, but they have language of their own, of course :-)
I was allways BIG cinema fan (thank god for subtitles) and recently I am DVD fan instead. So, that´s my school of languages.
I saw "Band of Brothers" about a year ago, but it was dubbed in Czech, so maybe that´s why i didn´t recognize that phrase. Really great mini-series (in some way similar to "Dark Blue World" - is that an accident?) :-)
You inspired me for updating my IMDB profile, I´m sure you´ll know what movie is my recent signature phrase from :-)))

"Get away from her, you BITCH !!!"

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I really got no idea from which movie the phrase is. First of all I guesed South Park, but I don't know...perhaps you've ment something different. It might also be any of the great Czech comedies...but I really don't know. Well...explain, please.

Mine is from the end of the Episode 2 of the mini called Day Of Days. Actually, did you know that you can find the Memorable Quotas at IMDB? Just in case you didn't...go to the movie you like and under the list of the actors you can always find the word "more". Click it and you'll find a longer list. Click any of the characters (right) that is blue and there you go.

Hats off to your English again.

That night,I thanked God for seeing me through that Day Of Days and prayed I'd make it through D+1.

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...South Park??? Well, I guess somebody is not sci-fi fan, huh? :-))) My quote is from "Aliens" - scene called "Queen vs. Power Loader" (Ripley wearing transformer-like suit fighting with alien queen). Evidence here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090605/quotes

Just few months ago I´ve bought "Alien Quadrilogy" 9-disc set DVD (in case you are sci-fi fan after all, I highly recomend it to you). Lots of bonuses... After 4 months I still haven´t seen all of the special features.

Any favourite movie except wartime movies? :-) There are lots of guns in Aliens too.

(That was a joke)

"Get away from her, you BITCH !!!"

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Actually....I'm not a sci-fi fun. You know, wartime movies are my favourite, but I'm not into guns, I prefer ones where people are at the first place.
Besides war movies I love Stanley Kubrick's movies, out of which some are sci-fi, but I'm really not into Aliens. But I can understand how happy you have to be after buying that DVD pack with some added scenes.
My favourite ones are Full Metal Jacket, Band Of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, One Flew Over Cuckoo's Nest, Shining, Kelly's Heroes, A Clockwork Orange, Dr. Strangelove and movies like those. Sorry, no Aliens :)



That night,I thanked God for seeing me through that Day Of Days and prayed I'd make it through D+1.

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I have theory that Stanley Kubrick must be alien - therefor you ARE into aliens and you don´t even know it :-))) I saw only his "2001" (terribly boring*) and "Eyes Wide Shut" (What the hell??? BORING BORING BORING*) so I am not very capable to talk about his movies.

*my subjective opinion

About that DVD I mentioned, it´s not just "some added scenes", every movie is in two versions (theatrical release and director´s cut - very different from original version) plus 5 discs full of bonuses. Even for not-alien-fan it´s really something.

But I like "Saving Private Ryan" and "One Flew Over Cuckoo's Nest" at least something we have common :-))))))

"Get away from her, you BITCH !!!"

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You guys are funny. I had a good laugh when I've read your discussion. :) By the way. I think there are many of us, Slovaks, surfing IMDB. :)
Ale fakt ste ma pobavili. :) Pekny den!

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A Cesi take!!!!

"Killing me won't bring back your apples!"

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Great, that's exactly what we meant to do, just to have a little fun. I am glad to see my countrymen around, they are quite precious to me since I am in UK. Cheers to you all.

That night,I thanked God for seeing me through that Day Of Days and prayed I'd make it through D+1.

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When you wrote your post, back in 2004, I don't think Google could be used to translate. But now it's 2011, and Google can translate quite well, and we get to see what you wrote. Now we don't have to be left out :)

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It's not just an English phenomenon.

In Spanish, there are 2 words for "to be", so English students have to learn both ones.

I kinda felt that the English teacher, while she was trying, was not effective at explaining when to use "lend" and when to use "borrow.". That kid's explanation was just backwords: (e.g. I borrow your notebook or You lend me your notebook)

That was great how she stood him up: "I am fighting the enemy by teaching you English; Don't sabotage my war effort"

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[deleted]

I don't think Karel looked stupid! (Plus, he was adorably cute!) If anything, it made the English teacher look stupid for being impatient too. Although I liked it how she said that was her bit for the war. I thought it highlighted a part of the English language that must be very hard to learn.

That's strange how you didn't see it with subtitles, that must have been confusing.

I think it must also be difficult for a lot of people to learn the difference between "make" and "do" - they have the same verb for both in a lot of romance languages. And some equivalents are very hard for English speakers, like "ser" and "estar" in Spanish, or "por" and "para"!

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Teaching the difference between lending and borrowing was a bit off.
She should have been teaching them to say: "Good afternoon. Don't shoot. I am on your side".
I would bet my life that more than one Polish or Czech pilot met his end in a field, at the end of a sharp tine.

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I think that's the point...the classes were overly academic and not terribly helpful. It was sadly ironic when you considered the deaths/possible deaths of a lot of the guys.

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