MovieChat Forums > El Bola (2000) Discussion > Did I miss something?

Did I miss something?


OK, so I probably have no gaydar at all, but where does it come about that his friend's dad is gay and his mother is a lesbian? They live together, and they seem very fond of each other, particularly during the trip to the mountains (La Pedriza, my stomping grounds!!) So the Da calls his friend 'Maricón', but a lot of Spanish men greet their friends like that.

Another thing: there is no big deal about his friend at the fairground asking him for a kiss. It is a chaste kiss on the cheek, and he doesn't ask him for a kiss to leave him in. I live in Spain and have a 15 yr old Spanish son, and I see nothing strange or sexual about a family friend asking for a kiss from a 12 year old boy (or girl for that matter).

Also, Achero Mañas in the interview with the director on the Spanish version, makes no mention of this. He just mentions how both are marked: one by love, one by violence; one physically by the tattoo his father gives him, and the other, also physically, by the marks of the beatings his father gives him.

I think the friend's da is a bit unconventional, and has may have had problems with the police about substance abuse. I also think this is why his friend is dying and why his friend says he is tired of seeing his friends dying of AIDS. I was in Spain in the 80's, and I know at least two people who died of AIDS, from heroin use. Of course, the heroin problem has reduced a lot: they are all dead now. Great social planning.

Otherwise, marvellous film. The performances by the two kids are excellent, and the look on Juan José Ballesta's face is absolutely expressive.

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irlandesa,
I don't know if you will ever see this reply, as it is quite awhile after your post. However, I just saw the movie a couple nights ago. I was struck with the same response when reading ricrisci's comment. Maybe I too missed something, but my take on it was that the information given in the movie was not such that you could logically jump to those conclusions. It would be interesting to hear how he arrived at those beliefs. This would be a good example for the Philosophy 101 lecture on "belief" vs. "knowledge," where we learn that beliefs are based on subjective truth, and knowledge, or to "know" something, is based on objective verification. The "kiss on the cheek" comment would cause some to believe that some homophobia is at play here. It's pretty common knowledge that many cultures practice this greeting or show of affection, and, I for one, think this is a beautiful way to say hello or goodbye to a friend (and,no, I'm not a homosexual too). To ricrisci's credit though, I will say that his comment on the "abnormal vs. normal family" was an astute and enlightening observation (although the concept of the "normal family" is kind of a fantasy).
One thing that struck me about the movie was the way the case was handled upon knowledge of the boy's physical abuse. As one trained in Social Work, one of the things you learn now is that you are required by law to report cases of abuse as a social worker, as are members of many other professions - at least in America. One thing is for sure. That man deserved some punishment, and, as did "Pellet," needed treatment. I guess, at the end we see that maybe that happenned, or at least Pablo looked to be getting some kind of counseling. I am glad that we didn't see the guy getting the tar beat out of him like we do in many movies (although I must admit I would have enjoyed seeing it, I guess). This just reinforces the idea, as does beating the child, that "might is right," and he who is the strongest and the most violent, is who wins. "He who has the biggest stick wins" leads us down the road to 12-year-olds with .25 automatics in their pockets. Unfortunately, here in America, we are a long way away from changing some of these cycles of behavior, and we, in fact, have probably gotten worse. It is a complicated problem. For example, I think we can blame some of the right-wing "family values" and religious groups (along with the spineless breed of politician that has evolved as the norm) for a failure to allow change. But then, on the other hand, we might also say that a break down in the family and in religious values, has been a cause of the matter. A strong and loving family, or extended family, has been found to be one of the biggest positive influences on how we will turn out, and although I have no way of knowing if there is a God or not, or whose God is the "real" one, I do believe religion has been valuable for giving people a system of moral values and beliefs to help guide our lives, and a place to discuss them (er, well . . or maybe to "get preached" them).
One could say that an important criterion for determining a film to be meaningful is that it stimulates us to think about and to discuss topics important to our lives or our society. I think that this film does a pretty good job of accomplishing that, or at least for me it did. I wouldn't call this a monumental piece though, but, all in all, a pretty decent flick.

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Thank you guys for bringing this up. Again, the last post to this topic was several months ago, so you probably wouldn't read this again. But I too was truly baffled by the reviews on here that stated Alfredo's parents to be gay? I didn't even pick up on that?

In fact, I thought they were a believable hip couple who truly loved each other and shared many things in common (like the tatoos, etc). Where on Earth did anyone get the idea/suggestion that these two people were gay? Is it mentioned in a version of this movie that is not available in the US?

I saw no indication that the father/mother showed affection for other men/women. Nor did I even pick up any "gay relation" to the AIDS storyline. I have extremely good gaydar and I thought the father (Jose) was very attractive, but alas, I didn't for a second think that his character was gay.

Maybe I blinked/sneezed (I doubt it) during the dialogue where either parent talks about their sexuality? I just don't get where these reviewers picked up on this?

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I too, as an American viewer was a bit confused. I recognized that Alfredo kissing Birras was probably 'a European thing.' I didn't read anything into that, but Birras made some comment about 'missing your Dad, tell him to call me' or something. I wonder if Jose is just a bohemian, and as a tatoo artist associates more with a gay metropolitan crowd, or if that is just an americanization.

When I saw the four adults on a day trip to the mountains, I did immediately wonder, which were the two 'couples.' I think certain ambiguities were introduced but i also felt that they were not central or essential to the main plot. I do have the feeling that something was 'lost in translation.'

Overall, I loved the film, very well done and superbly acted.

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I too didn't hear about the gay issue until I read this thread, but I completely accept it now that I think about it. First off, let me state that I too love this film. It is strongly cast and shot, and the poetic feel you get when you watch it (great score) only emphasizes that the director is a skilled artist, knowing what he's doing with a difficult subject as the one at hand. On the same note. In Europe, as opposed to America, being gay is far from an "issue". I don't know where you, rabbit, are from in America, but some places - quite strongly - disapprove of gay marriage, still in 2005. I find this amazing alongside scary. This is not a comment on you personally, not at all, but an attempt to explain that this director might very well have chosen Alberto's parents to be gay just because a lot of people are. This is something we haven't seen since R.W. Fassbinder. A movie about a subject (domestic violence) and some of the characters in the movie just happen to be gay. Nothing to do with anything, but liberatingly chosen because this is a real portrait of real life. If that is indeed the case, I absolutely love it.

- Y'know who we got here?
*beep* Charlie Bronson!!

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"So the Da calls his friend 'Maricón', but a lot of Spanish men greet their friends like that."

Hum, no. I'm spanish and It obviously can be used like a joke, but it's not usual to greet friends this way (at least not where I live).

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Umm, yes. I'm Spanish too, and I personally am straight but wouldn't really give it much thought if I was called that way.

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seneca84

it is common in mexicao

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I am pretty sure that they are straight and it is never suggested that they are homosexual. Where did you get this idea?

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yeahhhhh, obviously whoever started up this whole thing clearly had no idea what they were talking about. i´m living in spain for the year, and when I first got here, kissing each other on the cheek took a little getting used to, but really, it´s nothing at all sexual. Normally it´s only between girls or between a girl and a guy, but if it´s family, or close friends, then it´s completely normal for two males to kiss eachother on the cheek. Furthermore, the word maricón is thrown around all the time, as a joke between two male friends, or in this case, as a way to greet a friend.

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And also, it's normal for adults to ask children for kisses, so there's nothing wrong with the guy at the amusement park asking Alfredo for one. Seriously, the word 'maricón' is thrown around like 100 times in any informal conversation. I live in Spain and people use this word in a very friendly way to kind of tease other people, of course friends. It's not something you'd say to your boss. But really, I've heard even stronger swear words being used in friendly conversation.

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I really doubt the theory, particularly because it was never mentioned by the filmmakers (to my knowledge). I saw no evidence of this. I think the family was just the kind of loving family who values friendship and community--and thus always has friends around. As for Felix dying of AIDS, that doesn't mean that he was gay; I know a number of people who are HIV+ and are straight; the assumption that AIDS is a gay disease is so...80s.

I also have no idea how the whole 'give me a kiss' thing could be interpreted as anything significant. I'm not Spanish, but I've lived in Spain, and everyone is always giving kisses for greeting. Sure, that would be weird in America, but whatever. In cultures like America, people automatically think that same-sex affection = being gay (or being repressed GLBT). But other places I've lived (Middle East, North Africa), it's totally normal for friends of the same sex to hold hands while crossing the street or have their arm around the other's neck while riding in a taxi (etc).

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It seems to me that one of the ways people might be catching AIDS was through the tattooing process. Maybe not likely but possible, I suppose. I imagine a tattoo needle could draw blood or just a tiny bit of bodily fluid and under less than hygienic conditions be transferred to another person. Nothing seemed gay about the characters in the film, and the AIDS sub-plot seemed more like a device that framed the movie in a time period (80s) than some reflection on the attitudes/beliefs/practices of the characters.

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I saw nothing in this film to suggest anything gay. You cannot always associate AIDS with gay. That is stereotyping and plain silly. If Felix had Lung Cancer would you automatically believe he was a smoker? Did you know that only 12% of all Lung Cancer cases are caused by smoking?

José and his wife had two sons. I don't believe that would be the case if they were gay. Nothing anywhere in the film or storyline or director's comments EVER mention any gay undertones to this story. Why put something there that never was?

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The parents are 100% straight. The problem was the subtitles, which were probably done superficially: "Maricón" does mean "gay", but it's also an affectionate word when used amongst people who are very close. It kind of means "you're a bit of a bastard, but I like you!". Surely you've heard people saying "what a bastard he is" in admiration, well, same here.
As for those who've said "I'm Spanish, and we never use maricón that way", well, it is true that most people don't speak like that, but many do. (it's a little surprising that they wouldn't know though).
I hope that clarifies the matter.

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