Come on, Ed is homosexual - The Man Who Wasn't There (2001) Discussion

He liked Birdie, didn't he?

Ignore the smoke.

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[–] notelrahckcirtap 15 years ago

• The magazine for which Crane has written his account of the tragic events that have landed him on death row, he tells us three times, is a men’s magazine.

• A copy of one such magazine, Muscle Power, with a flexing hunk on the cover, lies displayed on his prison cell desk (remindful of a wall poster of a body builder glimpsed earlier in the barber shop).4

• Crane’s boss and brother-in-law, Frank (Michael Badalucco), shouts three times at Crane in court—echoing the earlier, twice-uttered complaint of Crane’s wife’s boss and lover, Big Dave— “What kind of man are you!”

• Crane refuses sex from the precocious teenager, Birdy, to whom he is strongly attracted but apparently only platonically (“sentimentally,” in Klawans’ words).

• Crane not only admits to not having “performed the sex act” with his voluptuous wife Doris “for several years,” but he earlier seems as curiously unaffected by his own celibacy as by Doris’s affair with Big Dave. (“I wasn’t going to prance about it,” Crane tells us. “It’s a free country.”)

• The stiletto-like letter opener with which Crane kills Big Dave in self-defense is referred to by Crane’s lawyer, Freddy Riedenschneider (Tony Shalhoub), as a “dame’s weapon.”

• Crane tells us that a couple of weeks after they met on a blind date (in what would have been the late 1930s or early 1940s!), Doris proposed to him.

• One of Crane’s in-laws asks Doris at a wedding reception of Doris’ cousin: “How come you got no kids?”

• Doris, for her part, is unperturbed at finding Crane alone with Birdy at a party at Big Dave’s department store.

• A man approaches Crane at the party and asks out of the blue: “Haven’t I seen you up in Ladies Wear?”

• Instead of gaining more traditional “tough guy” revenge on Big Dave—who himself later says, “I’d understand if you came in here and socked me in the nose!”—Crane secretly scams him out of $10,000.

• When the salesman and future murder victim, Creighton Tolliver, subtly tries to seduce him, Crane not only discerns the “pass” instantly, but turns it down with surprising nonchalance—especially for a small-town “straight” male in the United States of the late 1940s. Moreover, he proceeds to consummate their business deal rather than reject “the goddamn pansy” (as Big Dave calls him) out of hand.

• Crane visits Tolliver in a cheap hotel because Crane, even when earlier shaving his naked wife’s legs, can’t stop thinking about…dry cleaning. (“It’s clean…and no shrinkage.”)

• In the context of their asexual relationship, Doris treats her husband like the house eunuch, having him zip up her dress as she puts on her make-up and shave her legs while she reads in the bathtub (a ritual that is homoerotically—and sado-masochistically—reversed in the end when a male prison guard shaves Crane’s legs as he sits strapped to the electric chair).

• Crane was rejected for military service in World War II, Doris snickers, “on account of fallen arches.”

• Crane’s barber occupation: the one thing in his life, he will tell readers of the men’s magazine, about which he “felt remorse.”

• Crane’s name: an intertextual reference to Psycho’s Marion Crane that also alludes, as in Hitchcock’s film, in a “femininely” symbolic sense to birds. The feminine aspect is reinforced in Man through the rhyme of Crane’s platonic love, Birdy.

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[–] spijkertje 15 years ago

Interesting. Will think about it when I'm watching it again.

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[–] cbartal 15 years ago

Nope. I don't buy it. Not in the least.

Ed shuts down Tolliver without hesitation. "You're way out of line buddy, way out of line".

Ed is just a brow beaten, sexually repressed, husband. It happens.

You go without long enough and you forget what the thing down there is there for.

Birdy lit a fire down there, but Ed was moral enough to know that he needed to channel his feelings in a different way.

It might be interesting to read these types of feelings into Ed Cranes character, but I just don't see any truth to it.

It makes for an interesting thread, and I'll be the first to say that any thread on this board is a good thread.

But I just don't buy this angle at all.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] OsbourneRuddock 15 years ago

No - I'm not remotely convinced. Most of the points hold no water, and none of them convincingly prove he's gay.

• Crane’s boss and brother-in-law, Frank (Michael Badalucco), shouts three times at Crane in court—echoing the earlier, twice-uttered complaint of Crane’s wife’s boss and lover, Big Dave— “What kind of man are you!”

LOL, he's not accusing him of being gay - he's annoyed at him because he thinks he's responsible for the death of his sister Doris and for blowing all the money (his money) which he got from handing the barber shop over to the bank. And Big Dave asks him the same question because he's tried to blackmail him and is ruining his livelihood . They're asking him what kind of person he is, not suggesting he's gay.

• Crane not only admits to not having “performed the sex act” with his voluptuous wife Doris “for several years,” but he earlier seems as curiously unaffected by his own celibacy as by Doris’s affair with Big Dave. (“I wasn’t going to prance about it,” Crane tells us. “It’s a free country.”)

That only proves that they no longer find each other physically attractive, not that he's gay. Sex is only one aspect of a relationship - their relationship seems to work quite well on other levels.

• One of Crane’s in-laws asks Doris at a wedding reception of Doris’ cousin: “How come you got no kids?”

So a couple in a long term relationship without having had kids is evidence to you that one of them is gay? Really?

• A man approaches Crane at the party and asks out of the blue: “Haven’t I seen you up in Ladies Wear?”

Yes, and if I remember correctly he replies that his wife works there, and that's why he's seen him there.

• Doris, for her part, is unperturbed at finding Crane alone with Birdy at a party at Big Dave’s department store.

She looked a little perturbed to me. Besides, all they were doing is talking.

• Instead of gaining more traditional “tough guy” revenge on Big Dave—who himself later says, “I’d understand if you came in here and socked me in the nose!”—Crane secretly scams him out of $10,000.

Perhaps because he's not the 'traditional "tough guy"'. Also, Ed Crane doesn't seem like the emotionally passionate type. He feels justified in screwing Dave out of the money because Dave is screwing his wife, but he doesn't seem particularly angry about it. He seems quite detached about most things, and drifts through most of the film like some kind of somnambulist.

• When the salesman and future murder victim, Creighton Tolliver, subtly tries to seduce him, Crane not only discerns the “pass” instantly, but turns it down with surprising nonchalance—especially for a small-town “straight” male in the United States of the late 1940s. Moreover, he proceeds to consummate their business deal rather than reject “the goddamn pansy” (as Big Dave calls him) out of hand.

I disagree - Crane seemed quite annoyed to me, and said something like "boy, you're way outta line!". But he accepted the deal because he could see that the man had just made a mistake and was willing to move on. I mean why hell would he reject the deal "out of hand" when it involved so much money? That would have been totally pointless and unnecessary.

• Crane was rejected for military service in World War II, Doris snickers, “on account of fallen arches.”

• Crane’s barber occupation: the one thing in his life, he will tell readers of the men’s magazine, about which he “felt remorse.”

• Crane tells us that a couple of weeks after they met on a blind date (in what would have been the late 1930s or early 1940s!), Doris proposed to him.

What do either of those points have to do with him being or not being gay?

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[–] notelrahckcirtap 15 years ago

No guys I honestly think he is a seriously repressed homosexual, there are way too many hints for it to be a coincidence.

I understand the answers youve given, and the fact that there are perfectly explainable answers to the points i raised is testiment to how subtle his homosexuality is aluded to.

Theres a good article which I will find later and post on this thread for you to read if your interested. I read it and there are plenty of convincing points, which if you dont believe are none the less interesting.

http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/jc46.2003/brook.pansies/pansies2.html

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[–] bhoover247 15 years ago

"You're out of line, mister way out of line".

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[–] barryshaft 15 years ago

I think it's a possibility. But if it were true of the character, I think he's in the dark about it himself.

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[–] notelrahckcirtap 15 years ago

The fact Ed said "Your way outta line.." isnt irrefutable proof he isnt gay.

Theyre relationship should have been stricly business and not all gay men would be attracted to other gay men.

Also Ed is (I think) a 'closet' homosexual, probably denying it even to himself.

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[–] cbartal 15 years ago

The "way outta line" line isn't irrefutable proof, by any means.

But it makes sense within the context of the rest of the film.

Ed becomes fixated on Birdy. He finds little inspiration in any other member of his circle. Big Dave, Doris, his brother in law, even Reiden-Scheidner. There is no spark there with him. He has passed judgement and dismissed them in one way or another. They are all masculine images that Ed has no use for. Even Doris fits into this masculine mold.

He only finds his revitalization from Birdy. He masks his sexual impulses with noble intentions, and when confronted with a sexual the opportunity he stifles his sexual impulses as the moral framework of the era would dictate, even with a hot young girl's face in his lap.

Ed Crane gay? It simply doesn't work for me.

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[–] franzkabuki 14 years ago

No he´s not homosexual nor is he an alien - although it´s kinda cool to think he is. You know - alien; not homosexual.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[–] j_money77 14 years ago

I always not of Ed as a non-sexual, like a being incapable of having sex, at least thats the way he seemed to be played---especially the way he talks about not having done 'the sex act' in many years---it sounded like sex, with anybody, wasn't something Ed was interested in, his refusal to accept a bj from birdie aroused my suspiscion as well.

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[–] Bzine 14 years ago

Hmmm interesting.

That made me start thinking about the following lines just after the suicide which because of the overuse of the indefinite article "it" almost seem like Ed's confessing his transvesticism:

ED (V.O.)
She'd hanged herself. I'd brought
her a dress to wear to court and
she'd used the belt. I didn't
understand it either. At first I
thought maybe it had something to do
with me, that she'd figured out
somehow how I fit into it and couldn't
stand it, couldn't stand knowing...

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[–] intexor 14 years ago

I also see Ed as being asexual. He's not bothered by it, just as he isn't bothered by most other things so it seems. To me that's what him not being there is all about. He's unattached. Not being interested in sex with women doesn't make him interested in having sex with men automatically. I didn't pick up any of the scenes mentioned as indications that he might be gay and I don't think they were meant in that way.

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[–] cbartal 14 years ago

I agree that there are no indications of Ed being gay. Pondering the implications may be interesting, as a poster stated, but they don't represent the angle or purpose of the film.

But I would also disagree that Ed is asexual. He'd been repressed for many years. But I think it's pretty clear that Birdy lit a fire in his loins.

He couldn't express it because of the time and the circumstances, but he certainly felt it.

I'm not processing a long, Freudian analysis of the film. I'm just calling them as I see them. Ed Crane, depressed, oppressed, celibate introvert. Birdy, young, hot, malleable. It's an easy call for me.

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[–] intexor 14 years ago

Yes I can see that. But I didn't view his interest in Birdy as something sexual. I think it was the music he liked. That drew him towards her before he had even seen her face. Yes it lit a spark in him, as in something to care for. But I don't think it was sexual.

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[–] cbartal 14 years ago

You have a point intexor. He was drawn up to the relatively quiet room in Nerdlingers by the piano and not the girl.

But it never takes long for a man to hijack an innocent agenda and subvert it with sexual thoughts.

The sexual drive in men is calculating, permutating, and even diabolical in its expression.

The best outward intentions often mask the most primal instincts.

Take the Woody Allen scandal, for instance. I'm sure the standard familial intentions were in play with Allen up until the moment that his relationship with Sun Yi turned the corner. Was it Allen's intent all along to go down the road he did. I reckon not. But at some point the sexual drive kicks in. Allens explanation has always been, "The heart wants what the heart wants". But I have a sneaking suspicion that there were other organs pulling the heart strings at the critical junctures in the situation.

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[–] GretaF 14 years ago

Surprised you didn't mention anything about the Piano Teacher Ed took Birdie to see.

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[–] Caractacus23 13 years ago

"Surprised you didn't mention anything about the Piano Teacher Ed took Birdie to see."

Yeah, THAT guy was gay. Also, I thought it was a little odd that both Tolliver's wig maker, and the piano teacher, were both San Franciscans named "Jacques." I have no idea what, if anything, to make of that, however.

Been making IMDB board posts since the 90s, yet can't bring up any from before December of 2004.

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[–] voided-1 13 years ago

The question of sexuality needs to be addressed because of all these pointers. However, I dont think they are pointing to Ed's suppression of his homosexuality. In fact, Ed is presented as an asexual being, completely devoid of sexual motivations.
His interest in Birdy represents a wish for purity. To him she is a bird singing a sweet tune. Her youthful innocence could be a chance for his redemption. His quest to guide this youth onto a meaningful path - a beautiful life where nothing goes to waste (in contrast to his wasted, meaningless, alienated life). Of course, Ed's perceptions of Birdy as pure are tarnished when she tries to pleasure him in the car.

I think your list of pointers are relevant because they show Ed's emasculation. He is an alien and can't relate to conventional ideas of masculinity. He is outside of society and has no concept of belonging. He has no sexual urges, no need for family, no pride or joy in his work.

Ultimately, I don't see how anyone can view Ed as having any kind of sexuality whatsoever. The movie is constantly telling us that the opposite is true.

"This sounds like a dialogue from our script!"

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[–] stephan-128 13 years ago

i like larryromano's take on ed's personality best.

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[–] duderunner 12 years ago

Um, you do realise that magazines such as Playboy etc. are what are referred to as "Men's magazines"? The term means magazines aimed at men, heterosexual men is implied.

The rest of your reasoning which I skipped over is pure waffle as well, so I'll leave it at that.

You clearly don't get Ed's character at all.

The film isn't about someone not fitting in because he's secretly gay, but because he's "not there", he's exists outside of everything, he can't connect.

Perhaps some gay men might interprate the film your way, I don't know, but it wasn't the Coen's intention because his problem is pretty well defined throughout the film.

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[–] onepotato2 11 years ago

• The magazine for which Crane has written his account of the tragic events that have landed him on death row, he tells us three times, is a men’s magazine.

• A copy of one such magazine, Muscle Power, with a flexing hunk on the cover, lies displayed on his prison cell desk (remindful of a wall poster of a body builder glimpsed earlier in the barber shop).4

etc.

by - notelrahckcirtap on Mon Sep 28 2009 12:11:24
________________________________________

Wow. Some very thoughtful analysis.
Nevermind the literalists on this thread. It's all they can do to follow a plot

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[–] cbartal 11 years ago

Ed's not gay.

I've posted ad nauseam on this.

He's not gay.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] TequilaMockingbird5150 11 years ago

together it makes a compelling argument. However, there is one, the second to last one that you have listed, that doesn't seem to belong. He says he has remorse that he is a barber. Isn't that historically a popular occupation for gay men? Yes, most of them call themselves stylists, but isn't a stylist just a glorified barber in a sense.

The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. Samuel Beckett

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[–] Zuider_Zee 11 years ago

All that smoke and not one bit of fire.

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[–] WavesBeneath 10 years ago

Good observations.

I also agree, but the Birdy scenes threw me off guard.

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[–] kkhsiivonen 14 years ago

That explains the title. Maybe he's not gay, but he's not a man. Considering the 40's context, it propably means he's gay. It may also refer to alot of homosexual innuendos found in movies of the era (but then maybe it should've been a western)

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[–] davespeaker_11 14 years ago

I don't think he's homosexual just depressed and impotent. I think he had feelings for Scarlett jonhanson's character but because of her age couldn't pursue it.

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[–] Gong5 14 years ago

Well, interesting take didn't cross my mind, and doesn't conveinve me now either.

But a more interesting question to those posing this interpretation, is what are the implications of he is a repressed homosexual? Because I haven't read anything about the implications of that.

In any case he is a repressed man most of all, and a depressed man too.

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[–] tomimt 14 years ago

Ed might be closer of being an asexual with no real sexual needs.

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[–] jcappy 14 years ago

If he's the man "who wasn't there," then it makes little difference whether he's gay or not. What matters is: what is there in modern life that makes him Not There? How is it that his life about him offers him nothing? Or nothing except the food he can't stomach.

But then again, if he's gay, he may be experiencing a heavy dose of oppression along with his obvious depression. A deadly duo.

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[–] jriley555 14 years ago

right. remember the uncertainty principle talked about, which is also brought up as a theme in their more recent movie "a serious man"

we don't KNOW if he's gay, though that is certainly hinted at, we might assume he's not an alien. what we do know is that he is disaffected, alien-ated, repressed, oppressed.

what, why or who to blame, besides ed crain himself, who seemed to drift into his various situations in life, is nothing that can be defined with certainty.

the first autonomous act we see: blackmailing big dave to capitalize the dry cleaning business - which turned out badly.

the second: his mentoring of birdy - which also turned out badly.

another possibility to throw on the pile: he was a born loser. unable to engage with the life around him.

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[–] larryromano 14 years ago

I do believe that we are certainly meant to at least question Ed's sexual preference. As mentioned there are more than enough implications of his being homosexual throughout the film. One that has not been mentioned is during the confession scene between Big Dave and Ed, when Big Dave begins to weep, Ed touches his hair in a way that for a moment appears to indicate an act of consolation. When Dave becomes startled by the movement, Ed explains that he was afraid Dave was going to set his hair on fire with his cigar.

I can not say whether the man is gay or not. There are doubtlessly people in each of our lives for whom we wonder that very thing. It is an elusive part of his character, and is not the one that defines Ed as a man or a non-man.

I think that the title for the film more describes his lack of confidence or ability in his own life. In Ed we have a man who married his wife because she suggested it. We have a man who is a barber because that is his wife's family's business. When he is presented with a business opportunity for which he would have to make no decisions at all, he finds the idea irresistible. Always, throughout the film, there is someone else driving. It is never Ed who is in control of any aspect of his own life.

Even when he talks about church. He mentions they go on Tuesday nights to play Bingo and that his wife is not interested in the here-after. Despite the fact that he is telling this story, he feels no need at all to offer his own opinion on that matter. Just like in every other aspect, he's just along for the ride.

Another example is the scene where Ed is approached by a salesman offering to tar his driveway. When his wife shows up she tells the guy to get lost right in the middle of the speel and then looks at Ed disapprovingly because she knows just how susceptible to suggestion Crane is.

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[–] GretaF 14 years ago

Re: Come on, Ed is homosexual
by larryromano (Mon Jul 12 2010 16:06:34)
One that has not been mentioned is during the confession scene between Big Dave and Ed, when Big Dave begins to weep, Ed touches his hair in a way that for a moment appears to indicate an act of consolation. When Dave becomes startled by the movement, Ed explains that he was afraid Dave was going to set his hair on fire with his cigar.

To me, it looked like Ed slowly grabbed Big Dave's cigar, pulling it away slowly. I didn't see any touching of the hair. Maybe I missed something. Will have to look later.

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[–] sim7396 14 years ago

No, he's not. He's simply an asexual person. As for Birdie, he either felt fatherly love, or saw his youth in hers: "I don't want your talent to be wasted". In the remote case that Ed felt attracted to Birdie, he decided to channel that attraction through legitimate means, such as paying for her lessons.

Some viewers claim they saw Ed with an erection while she played the piano. Is that right?

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[–] brock22 13 years ago

/Some viewers claim they saw Ed with an erection while she played the piano. Is that right?\

HAHA I noticed this too! However, I think it's just a 'pants tent': where the fabric of the pants is rigid and folds up when the man sits down, creating the illusion that he has an erection.

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[–] soma-2 13 years ago

I first read the theory about Crane being gay in December 2001 in an article in The Nation that raises many of the same points addressed above. Here's a link to the article: http://www.thenation.com/article/static-electricity?page=0,2

For what it's worth, I think the theory is correct. The clincher for me was when Birdy made advances on Crane and he reacted almost in disgust.

The Coen Brothers made this movie in a noir style from an earlier era, when controversial plot lines were conveyed through subtle suggestion and innuendo, rather than hitting the audiences over the head. And I think that's exactly what they are doing here. Sure, each of the points raised in this thread can be interpreted different ways. But that's exactly the Coens' intention.

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[–] idol_wild 13 years ago

http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/jc46.2003/brook.pansies/text.html

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[–] dbhstockton 13 years ago

Yep. Occam's Razor, folks. Closeted homosexuality is the simplest, best explanation for the enigmas of Ed Crane, with plenty of wonderfully subtle clues dropped.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] brock22 13 years ago

I am sure that, whether he is gay or not, it is not relevant to the main themes of this movie. The reason he is not sexually active and why he doesn't seem to have any sexual desires (not even for Birdie whom he seems infatuated with) is because he is so subdued and numbed by his redundant and unfulfilling existence. I think you provided some good evidence to make your claim seem very plausible, but I don't think the Coens intended for him to be gay.

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