MovieChat Forums > The Matrix Revolutions (2003) Discussion > If Neo is just another control/system by...

If Neo is just another control/system by the Architect to keep the whole


matrix working then why go to all the trouble of having agents try to kill him?

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Because that's how he ended up becoming the One in the first place. He needs to believe it himself and he does that by facing dangers like the Agents.

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The Architect's plan relies entirely on the illusion of freedom. The agents (who are apparently deemed most effective if not let in on what's really going on) are an important part of helping to create that illusion both for the freed humans and for those who remain in the Matrix.

For the latter, remember that whenever one of the "free" performs a reality bending act in front of someone an agent takes his/her place. This serves to keep them in check by forcing them to act in the shadows, thus limiting the damage they can do to the illusion of freedom for those who think of the matrix as their reality. When the One appears they get desperate and start engaging in public acts that they normally wouldn't, but by that point the system is reaching the point where it needs to be reset anyway as the check provided by the agents only delays the inevitable.

A system reset, by the way, is necessary because of an anomaly whereby .1% of the population are inclined to reject the matrix as their reality regardless. As the Architect pointed out "those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster." To solve this problem the system of the One was devised. The One comes in, resets the system, picks 23 people who are inclined to refuse the program, and those 23 help to pick and remove more problem people from the matrix. When their numbers reach 250,000 they are all killed, the next One resets the matrix, and picks another 23 problem individuals.

Essentially, since .1% of the population is inclined to reject the matrix as their reality, the Architect devised a system to continually find and remove them so that the damage they do to program is limited. However, since it's a flawed system which involves giving them a different illusion of freedom whereby they are unwitting participants in helping to keep their kind from ruining it for the 99.9% and since they are never able to completely eradicate that .1% a regular system reset is necessary.

However, the work they do helps to keep the program running for such long stretches between resets and the agents play a role in that because just as it would be bad to leave all those 250,000 in the matrix to contribute to the problem, imagine how bad it would be if those who were set free thought their best way of defeating the machines was to pull a Neo and regularly expose themselves like he did at the end of the first film in order to expose the matrix for the illusion that it is.

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good explanation. I don't know if the agents are in on it, but agent smith apparently was, as his line in Reloaded "its happening exactly as before".

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That could be read as "it's happening exactly as the last time, when he destroyed me", a reference to the previous movie. Seemingly, Smith must have started roaming the Matrix only very recently, thus it's not impossible he is referring to his previous status as that of an Agent of the Matrix as "before".

In any case, it's true, Smith by that point does know the whole plan, as near the end of Reloaded he surprises Neo by waiting for him on his way to the Architect and tells him he was expecting him to show up in that particular corridor. A corridor that only people that must know (such as the Keymaker) know about. Which means he knew who was Neo going to meet. As for how he gained that knowledge, in Revolutions we are shown that when he copies over somebody he retains their memory and perhaps abilities. Thus the logical explanation is that he managed to copy himself over someone that had knowledge of the Matrix cycles.

But it's also clear that in the first movie he didn't know any of that. He thought his goal was to get the access codes to the Zion computer and penetrate it. In the sequels we learn that the Machines know precisely where Zion is and can destroy it at any time in just a few hours - thus he was being played. Once he learned the truth, the reality that he could escape the Matrix "zoo" at any moment if the Machines actually wanted to launch an attack on humans, must be sickening him.

And if Smith didn't know then definitely the other Agents don't know at all.

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That could be read as "it's happening exactly as the last time, when he destroyed me", a reference to the previous movie. Seemingly, Smith must have started roaming the Matrix only very recently, thus it's not impossible he is referring to his previous status as that of an Agent of the Matrix as "before".

Perhaps. But I don't think so. In the first movie, Smith inexplicably develops a desire for personal freedom. But he doesn't seem to understand the real nature of the Matrix and Zion. He remains obsessed with getting the "Zion mainframe codes", falsely thinking if he destroyed Zion it would allow him to become free.

As we learn in Reloaded, Smith is destroyed by Neo which allows him to become free of the Mainframe and Machine City overlord(s). I think it is implied that once Smith becomes free, he becomes aware of the cycles and the real reason for Zion and The One, etc. (What he doesn't realize is the true nature of the Oracle and how she is using him [and Neo] as pawns in her game against The Architect.

Smith naively thinks he can assimilate The Oracle and use her "vision" for himself. But, as we learn at the end of Revolutions, The Oracle, as always, is several steps ahead of everyone else. It is she who assimilates Smith from within, using him and Neo against each other and against The Architect to create a better world/Matrix for herself and her followers.

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"Smith inexplicably develops a desire for personal freedom. "

Because he's the check against Neo. As Neo becomes more powerful and self-aware, so does Smith, and each become more unpredictable and dangerous for the game (Neo refusing to reset the Matrix, Smith actually becoming able to infect and thus overtake the machine world), forcing the Machine Leader to accept Neo's offer of conflict resolution.

"I think it is implied that once Smith becomes free, he becomes aware of the cycles and the real reason for Zion and The One, etc. "

It's not implied, it's clearly stated when he says in the park that both of them are "not free" and thus compelled to "disobey".



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"Smith inexplicably develops a desire for personal freedom. "

Because he's the check against Neo. As Neo becomes more powerful and self-aware, so does Smith

Yes.

You see that. I see that. But many others do not. Most think Smith's rise to viral dominance was an accidental unplanned thing.

each become more unpredictable and dangerous for the game

Yes, exactly.

Are you realizing that "the game" is being played between the Architect and The Oracle? And the end result of the "dangerous game" is "change". Change which is desired by the Oracle but NOT desired by The Architect.

Smith became viral because his "Mom" the Oracle made things turn out that way (via Neo destroying him from within). Neo refusing to reset the Matrix happened over love for Trinity, which was ALSO set up by The Oracle. The changes in both her pawns were all her doing and for what purpose?

We see the purpose at the end of Revolutions. Humans? Well, they have a decimated Zion to live in, but at least they aren't all killed. But they are still caged (in the Matrix) and isolated (underground in Zion) where they can't really cause more mischief (as they did in the past when they destroyed Earth).

But the real winner is the Oracle and her machine followers (Seraph and Sati, and probably more). They now get to live in a beautiful, new Matrix full of grass and sunrises. No longer does the Oracle have to hide out in a nasty, graffiti-covered urban apartment building.

Very nice. But it might not last forever. So...apparently, we learn, they will bring back Neo if he is ever needed again.

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"But the real winner is the Oracle and her machine followers"

Very true. Zion is left in ruins and most of its high tech stuff is gone. And as we all saw, the machines can pretty much come in anytime and erase it if needed.

Doesn't seem like Neo got really that much out of the deal...

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Very true. Zion is left in ruins and most of its high tech stuff is gone. And as we all saw, the machines can pretty much come in anytime and erase it if needed.

Doesn't seem like Neo got really that much out of the deal...

So true, though so few see it.

At least Zion didn't get wiped out, to be re-populated with 23 males and 17 females or whatever it was The Architect said. They are stuck with a mess, but I suppose it is better than them all being dead. So, I guess Neo and Trinity got SOMETHING out of sacrificing their own lives.

Quite clever misdirection on the part of the Wachowskis in disguising the true winner.

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They key part is "now whomever wishes to leave will be allowed to".

And as the first movie stated, NOBODY in their right mind would choose that!

Remember Cypher (forever wishing he never got out of the Matrix) and how Morpheus stated that after a certain age they don't release people because they can't cope with the reality of the situation.

Since Neo is obviously in late twenties or early thirties, that rules out most of the people in the Matrix.

Most inhabitants of Zion were born there, they were not freed humans (they lacked jacking ports).

SO clearly the arraignment will result in leaving each other alone, thus ensuring most of humankind (just how many people can survive in Zion? The place ain't exactly Texas large) will remain enslaved as human batteries.

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They key part is "now whomever wishes to leave will be allowed to".

This is a very clever and deliberately ambiguous statement. We think it applies only to humans in the Matrix. But look who is saying it. Machines.

There are machines, like The Oracle, Sati, even the Merovingian, who have been forced to hide themselves away in hidden corners of the Matrix because they have been marked for deletion. Now these programs can live (in the Matrix) in peace without fear of deletion. For how long will this "peace" last? As long as it can.

Let's think about all the people in The Matrix at the end of Revolutions. What has happened to them? Every last one of them has been assimilated by Agent Smith. And what happens, in the end, to these copies of Agent Smith? They die, killed by the self-destruct program fed to all of them through Neo, their "One".

Throughout 3 movies, the Matrix city is a nasty, crowded, dirty place packed full of people. What happens after all the Smith copies are deleted? The city is empty. They are all dead. The Machines will have to re-populate this Matrix with new "crops" of humans (in their wombs) being grown.

Notice who survives being assimilated by Agent Smith and the self-destruct program. Only three people: Sati, Seraph and The Oracle. They are the only ones left in the Matrix. And they are not human beings. They are programs. That's who really benefits from the whole chess game which was played.

Remember Cypher (forever wishing he never got out of the Matrix) and how Morpheus stated that after a certain age they don't release people because they can't cope with the reality of the situation.

Yes, the bargain the Oracle makes does also seem to include any humans who want to get out of the Matrix will be freed. Clearly most will not wish to get out.

Most inhabitants of Zion were born there, they were not freed humans

Correct. But remember (as the Architect says) Zion is completely destroyed every 100 years or so and re-populated with a handful of men and women chosen from The Matrix by The One.

This time, Zion isn't (completely) destroyed and the Zionites actually get to keep living and not be replaced by new people. That's the bargain Neo made with the Machines. To save Zion this time rather than destroy it.

SO clearly the arraignment will result in leaving each other alone, thus ensuring most of humankind (just how many people can survive in Zion? The place ain't exactly Texas large) will remain enslaved as human batteries.

Exactly.

Which is how the Wachowskis see our real world. They may have made the first Matrix movie with the idea that it could free all our minds. But by the time of Revolutions, they realized that most of humanity is happy living in a world of illusion and control, and perhaps it is best to leave things that way. As long as there is SOME safe sanctuary somewhere, for those few who prefer to live in the "real" world (whatever that may be).

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"Let's think about all the people in The Matrix at the end of Revolutions. What has happened to them? Every last one of them has been assimilated by Agent Smith. And what happens, in the end, to these copies of Agent Smith? They die, killed by the self-destruct program fed to all of them through Neo, their "One". "

Hadn't thought of that. But if true, how is that any different from a system crash (where all humans would also die)? That's exactly what the One is supposed to avoid, so I'm not sure all people just died.

"They may have made the first Matrix movie with the idea that it could free all our minds. But by the time of Revolutions, they realized that most of humanity is happy living in a world of illusion and control, and perhaps it is best to leave things that way."

OK, but wasn't that already stated in the first movie? When Morpheus explains that they will have to kill whatever people (cops, soldiers, engineers, etc) get in their way because they're already a part of the system and thus not only they cannot endure being freed but will fight to protect it?

From that moment it becomes obvious that whatever they're fighting for, it doesn't include the vast majority of people in the Matrix. They are doomed/hopeless/helpless already. AT best they're fighting for Zion, not the world.

Which is quite a creepy enough message already, only the "enlightened"/"chosen" count for squat, screw everybody else (whom "chooses" the people to be freed? The One and his followers, nobody can "choose" to be freed by themselves unless "chosen" first by this merry band to be made aware of the choice at all).



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Hadn't thought of that. But if true, how is that any different from a system crash (where all humans would also die)? That's exactly what the One is supposed to avoid...

Right. He avoids that by choosing the correct door. But this time/cycle The One chooses the wrong door. And so perhaps everyone in the Matrix died as The Architect said they would. He also said everyone in Zion would also be killed, so perhaps that's all that Neo managed to avoid.

so I'm not sure all people just died.

I'm not 100% sure either. But it really looks like that's what happens. All copies of Smith are destroyed. We see them as millions of dots of light going out. And then the city is empty.

We know that The Oracle, Sati and Seraph were assimilated by Smith. And we even see The Oracle's dead body lying in the rain after Neo does his self-destruct trick. But what happens next?

In the empty city we see a deja vu cat (hm....) and then we see Sati rise from the dead. Soon she joins The Oracle and Seraph in the newly created grassy park. My interpretation is that programs, such as these three, have the capability of making (and hiding) secret copies of themselves, to be brought back after death/deletion. Human beings like Neo and Trinity are unique biological beings and thus can't be copied. When they die, they are dead. And, it would seem, so is every other human in the Matrix who had been infected by Smith. As warned by The Architect.

OK, but wasn't that already stated in the first movie? When Morpheus explains that they will have to kill whatever people (cops, soldiers, engineers, etc) get in their way because they're already a part of the system and thus not only they cannot endure being freed but will fight to protect it?

Yes. Clearly Morpheus and the others consider regular people in The Matrix to be expendable. But I still get the impression, at the end of Matrix 1, that Neo's role is to ultimately free everyone from the Matrix. (cue superman scene)

In the next two Matrix movies, the ultimate goal becomes muddled and unclear. Which is probably why they are not nearly as liked as the first Matrix.

Which is quite a creepy enough message already, only the "enlightened"/"chosen" count for squat, screw everybody else (whom "chooses" the people to be freed? The One and his followers, nobody can "choose" to be freed by themselves unless "chosen" first by this merry band to be made aware of the choice at all).


Yes, many have commented on the arrogance of Morpheus and his team in the past here. A very valid criticism.

But doesn't that reflect reality? Don't most/all revolutionary groups feel they are special? Chosen ones who have the right to murder and bomb and destroy whatever might be in their path because of their righteous goals.

We can see that attitude from the American Revolution to the French Revolution to the Communist Revolutions to the IRA all the way to ISIS today.


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Thanks. This clears up a lot of stuff that I was confused about.

Basically the Architect designed the Matrix to be almost 100% efficient, and Zion and the One are his way of bringing that to 100%. The problem humans are funneled into Zion to separate them, but the only way to do that is to make them feel like they are choosing it. Having the agents chasing them makes it feel like they are choosing to escape to Zion, not that the Architect is letting them go.

How does the Oracle fit into this? All of her advice that I remember was advocating for Zion and Neo becoming the One and resisting the Matrix. Is she just there to help separate the troublemakers and send them to Zion?

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