Is Dumbledore not a bit of a douche at the end? - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (2001) Discussion

[–] Delta_Orionis 10 years ago

That bothered me as well. He's a headmaster and should know better than to get any houses hopes up and then just screw it up for them. Was that in the book, I don't remember...?

*May the force be with you.

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[–] BuzzHanks 9 years ago

No he was being fair and showed the school that even at the last minute, certain changes in circumstances can change the outcome. These remarks had already been brought to his attention. Besides, this Dumbledore was no where NEAR as big a douche as the *beep* that replaced him (tapping Ron's bandaged foot so pointlessly in PoA, slamming Harry against the wall in GoF, "Don't you all have studying to do?" etc.) What were they thinking in casting Gambon, especially considering that Harris was David Heyman's godfather? What an amazing way to honour his memory by replacing him with a gruff douche. I understand that they did not want Harris to be replaced but the fact is they are telling a story that like Heyman has said on multiple occasions "is one big story", yet especially in completely changing Dumbledore's character among other abominations that they have done, has greatly contradicted this statement. They were able to replace the following quite seamlessly (and i know most came out AFTER POA, and some are just voices but still):

Edward Norton as Bruce Banner with Mark Ruffalo

Josh Dallas as Thandral with Zachery Levi

Jim Varney as Slinky with Blake Clarke

George Carlin as Fillmore with Lloyd Sherr

The Patil twins, Pansy, Hermione's Parents, Kreacher's voice in these films

Jim Hanks replacing Tom Hanks as Woody in Toy story video games

So WHY could they have not done so with Dumbledore?

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[–] Dejay 8 years ago

I truly hated Harris in the role. He had zero charisma, gravitas and didn't feel like a powerful wizard at all. That whispering is so lame! Gambon was brilliant in the role and saved the movies together with Yates.

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[–] Kuato_and_George 9 years ago

It was an awful scene that came from awful writing in the book. She had a habit of just making whatever needed to happen in order for the good guys to win, regardless of how little sense it made. This scene is a perfect example of that.

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[–] Daenerys-Stormborn 9 years ago

He's a bit harsh towards fellow Slytherins :(

Nothing like a nighttime stroll to give you ideas.

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[–] pc-daisy 9 years ago

Dumbledore wasn't a Slytherin. When he visited Haryy in his room he said he always hated the curtains, having set fire to them in his fourth year. That makes him a Gryffindor. That is in one of the films, not sure if it comes from the book or not.

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[–] ShadowsGathered 9 years ago

If I recall correctly, it was in the book, as well... and yes, Dumbledore was a Gryffindor.

~ the hardest thing in this world... is to live in it ~

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[–] pc-daisy 9 years ago

Yes it is in Philosopher' Stone. Hermione tells the others as they are going to the school for the first time that she read Dumbledore was a Gryffindor.

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[–] Daenerys-Stormborn 9 years ago

As a headmaster, it is against his will to favor towards Gryffindors. Yet he chose to be like a head of Gryffindor than an Headmaster of all four houses.

▌│█║▌║▌║ ғυяү ║▌║▌║█│▌

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[–] louiseculmer 9 years ago

he's more of a douche at the beginning. Leaving hArry for ten years with a family who treated him like dirt is deplorable.

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[–] pete-293 9 years ago

except he had to in order to keep him safe.

Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)

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[–] louiseculmer 9 years ago

well, I can't help feeling that Dumbledore could have done something about the rotten way they treated Harry. The Dursleys were obviously afraid of magic, he could have intimidated them into treating harry better. Or he coukd have got Miss McGonagall or someone to go round there in the guise of a social worker and threaten them with prison if they didn't treat Harry better. The whole thing seems very odd to me.

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[–] chilone 9 years ago

It was a story mechanism that a lot of events hinged upon. Would have been kinda lame if he was cherished and loved being there.

Also Gambon was GREAT!!

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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[–] Henrietta_S 9 years ago

Let it be known: When your plans depend on the suffering of a person, you're a douche.

Harry didn't need to be loved and cherished there in order for later events to work. Treating him decently but strictly would have done the job just as well.
But strict yet decent caretakers don't make the audience go "Awww, dat poor kid!", and so wouldn't make your protagonist pitied and, therefore, pleasant to the audience.

Rowling always does these contrasting in order to have her characters appeal in a certain way to her readers. At least a few of those were softened in the movies - luckily.

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[–] chilone 8 years ago

I agree. I think it was vital.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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[–] Henrietta_S 8 years ago

Doesn't make it any less douche-y.

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[–] chilone 8 years ago

Oh, definitely douche-y.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

i don't actually see that it is necessary for harry to be ill treated at home in order for the story to work. his aunt and uncle could be people who don't want anything to do with magic without being monsters.

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[–] chilone 8 years ago

The post above explained it perfectly.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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[–] Dejay 8 years ago

Realistically I would even say that it would be counter productive. A kid growing up in a loveless environment never learns to love himself, and thus can't love anyone else. It's possible to turn out like Harry did but seems unlikely to me.

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[–] Furienna (3320) 5 years ago

Yes, Voldemort proved how that often works out. Dumbledore was only lucky that his awful plan worked...

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[–] teatat 9 years ago

I agree. The Dursleys are terrified of magic – sending someone by now and then to make sure Harry is happy – a reminder that they had ways of checking up on them. They could have been kept in check. McGonagall could have handled them beautifully.

My theory is that Dumbledore’s reasoning is more cynical than he ever admits. Almost a “whatever doesn’t kill Harry will make him stronger” type attitude. He took a big risk, Harry develops a hatred of bullies and a type of inter strength but it could easily have gone a different way and in many cases would have.

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[–] gollumsmeagolrocks 8 years ago

Actually, it's left out in the movies BUT, in the last book it's mentioned that Dumbledore actually did threaten them with magic a couple times in order to take him in at all and to treat him as best as they could.

~NW~

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[–] zaphod08 9 years ago

There was a better than even chance of turning Harry into a Muggle hating, Tom Riddle clone. I never saw how Harry was remotely protected by living with his aunt and uncle.

In the kingdom of the blind, you're the village idiot.

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[–] pete-293 9 years ago

then you don't understand the blood magic Dumbledore used to protect him. as long as he lived in a home where his nearest blood lived, there he could not be harmed by magic.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)

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[–] samhmd-7489 9 years ago

The blood protection his mother gave him was amplified when he lived in the same home as a direct blood relative of his mom. Lily was the only one left by the time the story started.

And really, the Dursleys weren't even that abusive to Harry. They did lots of silly, stupid things but nothing that really put Harry's life in danger.

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[–] louiseculmer 8 years ago

you can be abusive without putting someone's life in danger. making him sleep in a cupboard, making him wear his cousin's ill fitting cAstoffs, never buying him any presents for his birthday or Christmas, never showing him any warmth or kindness - all these things are not silly, but very cruel.

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[–] samhmd-7489 8 years ago

But if he were abused...wouldn't he be more messed up? He acts perfectly normal!

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[–] spasek 9 years ago

Read the books, genius. Actually, that's way beyond your capabilities. Perhaps, Cliff Notes?

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[–] bit-14-860360 9 years ago

pepole are always saying this but dont forget that slythern won the house cup the last 7 years under dombledor so its not like he always takes it from them in fact we have no idea who one in harrys 4,5,6,and 7th years so it could very well have been slythern again.
the fourth year hufflepuff was most likly winner as cedrics sacrifice probubly earned him points.
5th year the slytherns took points from everyone so they mostlikly won
6th year its anyone's gusse but id say no one got it out of respect for Dumbledore.
7th year due to the hell the school was in it would have been slytherin but probably went to noone after all the death

so out of 14 years we have
8 slytherin
3 gryffindor
1 hufflepuff
0 ravenclaw
2 years no winner

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[–] Henrietta_S 8 years ago

[quote]pepole are always saying this but dont forget that slythern won the house cup the last 7 years under dombledor so its not like he always takes it from them/quote]

Even one act of favoritism by a teacher is TOO MUCH.

If Slytherin got the House Cup in that year, then they deserved it. Awarding points for not even school-related activities that were breaking the rules only to see your own house win is _biased_, it is _partial_ and a teacher should be neither.

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[–] pete-293 8 years ago

"If Slytherin got the House Cup in that year, then they deserved it."

but did Slytherin really deserve it. many of their points were due to dirty tricks. many were due to Snape who constantly took points away from the other houses and reoutinly awarded points to Slytherin-many of which were undeserved. when you come down to it all Dumbledore did was restore the points taken from Harry, Ron, and Hermione by Draco's dirty trick and to award 20 real points.

Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)

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[–] Victoriousn09 9 years ago

Did you see how Snape looked at Dumbledore when he pulled that crap? Honestly, I don't blame him for doing so. I mean, how you gon tell the Slytherins "they won," but then humiliate them like that? And you can also tell that Snape was kind of hurt.

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[–] hemantfantastic 9 years ago

The house points were added/subtracted throughout the course of the year during various academic activities. The house points at the end of the school year were result of these additions/deletion according to which Dumbledore declared Slytherin as winner.

However, Dumbledore wanted to distribute more points in the light of special circumstances and exceptional bravery and character shown by 3 youngsters of Gryffindor. It was completely right of him to give due credit to Slytherin for their win, but it was also completely reasonable to tell the whole school about the contributions of Harry, Ron and Hermione before granting additional points.

To me, he acted very responsibly in at least giving a chance to Slytherin to rejoice for the points they accumulated in academic year. He could have directly made Gryffindor winner but abstained from doing so. And Gryffindor truly deserved to win after what Harry, Ron and Hermione achieved.

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[–] Victoriousn09 9 years ago

I see what you mean and you make some really good points, but couldn't Dumbledore add those points to just Harry, Hermione, and Ron individually?

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[–] hemantfantastic 9 years ago

Adding points to any individual from any of the houses automatically add points to the tally of their respective house, resulting in higher score.

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[–] Victoriousn09 9 years ago

Oh okay. I see.

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[–] Henrietta_S 8 years ago

but it was also completely reasonable to tell the whole school about the contributions of Harry, Ron and Hermione before granting additional points.

No, it wasn't.
A. The competition was over.
B. Harry, Ron and Hermione's actions that lead to those points were not school-related.
C. They were also breaking a ton of school rules.
D. The competition was OVER.

To me, he acted very responsibly in at least giving a chance to Slytherin to rejoice for the points they accumulated in academic year.

That's not "responsible", that's public humiliation! Of his own students. And people wonder why fanfictions portray Dumbles as the monster?

And Gryffindor truly deserved to win after what Harry, Ron and Hermione achieved.

No, it did NOT. Gryffindor did NOTHING. You get that? They landed on the LAST place by their own actions. Obviously none of them have even tried to win points throughout the school year.
Then, three first-years break a bunch of rules and get awarded for that? They get awarded with points AFTER the competition is already decided? For something that hasn't even anything to do with schoolwork, for which students are awarded the points?

For something that you maybe should not tell your underage students? "Hey, guys, Imma let Gryffindor win because a crazy mass murderer got into the school and they fought him off, alrighty?"
WTF?

Gryffindor deserved to loose. If it didn't, it would have put in some effort of winning points during the school year.

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[–] Gypsy12 8 years ago

Henrietta, points are awarded for more than just academics. For leadership, sacrifice, how you treat fellow students, etc. It is NOT just about academics.

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[–] KellyAB77 9 years ago

It could be looked at in this way: Throughout the movies/books, when points are given or taken, it is typically in small increments (e.g. 5 points, 10 points) with the exception being for extraordinary awards or punishments. Also, in the books, the students and faculty can see how many points each house has at that precise moment. (I haven't read the books in a while, but I think they could see stones in an hourglass type mechanism - one for each house.) Having been a Gryffindor himself, Dumbledore would have to announce to the whole school how his former house suddenly came up with an additional 170 points (when they only managed 312 throughout the entire year), so that no one could dispute it. (If the students saw a house go from 312 points to 482 points with no explanation right before the awarding of the House Cup, all hell would probably break loose.) And since the events in question happened at the very end of the year, the only time / place he could do this would be at the end of the year feast. Dumbledore does congratulate Slytherin on their exceptional year before making the changes. But given a large group of teenagers always competing, the way the points system is set-up and a headmaster who could be accused of favoring his former house, I'm not sure how else it could have been done.

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[–] Henrietta_S 8 years ago

It shouldn't have been done at all. He could have given them awards for services to the school and left it at that. Instead, he awarded points _after_ the competition was already over, to his own house, a house that throughout that school year never saw it fit to put some effort into winning some points by doing actual work and therefore deserved the last place.

Dumbledore congratulating Slytherin is nothing but a slap in the face at that point.

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[–] Jingizu (30) 7 years ago

Gryffindor did do good work and earned many points. They were in the lead with points when Malfoy's dirty little trick caused Harry, Neville and Hermoine to lose 150 points, putting them in last place.

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[–] !!!deleted!!! (59101971) 9 years ago

I'm so glad that she started cutting down on the points crap as it went on, and that the movies totally dropped it after Columbus. Such a stupid, irrelevant part of this series. It really only works as a point of comparison between how much they used to freak out about the House Cup and how nobody cares once Voldemort's back, but even then it's pretty dumb.

And yes, it was hilariously douchey of Dumbledore 

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