I love films that have deapth and inteligence. I can't say that I was able to follow this one. The filmmakers basically lost me around the last fifteen minutes. They never made anything clear. Any help on what this movie was about?
shareSPOILERS!!! BIG TIME! OK! this movie was soo good. The girl drown the boy never got over it. His father dies bringing him back to the place he wanted to forget.. notice the lecture he gives in the begining. Then he meets this chick on the train. is she real or imaginary?? dodo dodo! He sees her jump off a bridge help her out of the water. She's not breathing. Here is the tricky part.. A. The spirit of the child hood friend jumped into her body and lived in her for those last moments that the body could servive or b. She is completly a figment of his imagination. Either way I think the film was genius. But you'll notice that she doesn't interact with anyone but him and he doesn't go into the dance hall, he watches her..I can't say enough good things about this movie.
shareI am will you 100 percent. I was shocked actually by the plot and the amount of talent that went into this film. I've always been a fan of Pearce but this movie just blows my mind. I do think that she was a figment of his imagination though.
It was horrible when Silvy died, it broke my heart not only that she died but how she died. It's really quite a haunting movie isn;t it? We all have things on our past that we regret, maybe not to that extent but everyone has something they run from, something they can't take back. I wish more people understood the theme of this movie.
very well put 'redshoegrl'
or C. Silvy was reincarnated into Ruby. Ruby was supposed to die.
I liked how they used Scrabble to give clues... RUBY ME --> BURY ME.
I like endings like that, makes you really think.
The film was an exploration of the lead character's psyche (Pearce), and his voyage of self-discovery through the ritual of finally laying to rest the tragedy that occurred in his youth. Ironically, he is a psychologist himself, and the repression of Sylvia's death, and the ensuing guilt, have altered, or rather dictated, the course of his life. His father actually modeled some of this behavior-if you remember, his father gave him virtually no attention; at dinner they were silent, when he came home after spending the evening with Sylvia, his dad did not even listen to his story about the dead bird, and when his father arrived at the police station after her death, he could not even hold his son and comfort him, but only tried to quiet him. The woman (Ruby) and his interaction with her, were his creation, aimed at reliving the relationship in an effort to finally work through his conflicting emotions, and essentially release himself from guilt, and get on with his life. It was an absolutely brilliant film. I watched it a second time immediately, and gained further insight. They even set the stage for us in the beginning-he was discussing with his class the types of repression, and said that day they would be focusing on dissociation, which was exactly his own condition. Watch it again. The movie also speaks to the aleatoric nature of life-the idea that at any moment tragedy could befall any one of us, and alter our lives forever.
[deleted]
If she was a ghost and not something created by his mind then why would she come back? a mean spirits come back to fill a quest before doing to heaven. I guess you can say she came back to him so he would be able to get over her death but do you really think sh'd come back as someone else to decieve him? I am not going against anything you said, i've been running this exact question in my mind since i saw the movie and still i have come to no conclusion. It would be great to have the author of the story shed alittle light on it
shareFor those who wonder "why would she come back as someone else" etc., here's
my theory:
She came back as herself, her soul, but not in the image of her original body,
partly because he needed to see her as someone else and partly because she
needed to be seen as someone else (or as someone else at first, or as herself
only older, etc.). (Also possible/probable: She didn't necessarily get to
choose her appearance etc., it was chosen by God/the angels/whoever/whatever
one thinks/feels/believes is responsible for such things.) She "came back as"
a grown woman because he was a grown man. (Also, if she had at first "appeared"
to him as the young Silvy, he would probably have just ASSUMED that he MUST
be ONLY imagining things...instead of having a voyage of discovery etc. [why
is that reminding me of the boat? too many things remind me of other things!].)
How she is seen (as Ruby) can be his imagination, or both their imaginations,
or whatever, and yet, that her spirit is contacting him can still be real.
Anyone else like that idea? ^_^
Kit =^__^=
=^__^=
We all tend to perceive each other (and ourselves) as at least somewhat different
from how we actually are, anyway.
Besides, what is life, and what is death, anyway?
It's a very symbolic movie, but that doesn't mean that one of the main
characters in it necessarily has to BE only symbolic. ^_^
(Hint: Stop thinking so literally, maybe? ^_~)
Kit =^__^=
=^__^=
Most ghost stories include some doubts as to whether or not the ghost(s)
is/are "real". Ghosts are like that. Death is like that. Life is like that. Etc.
Kit =^__^=
=^__^=
omg, I am so dumb!! I think I am the only person on this board that totally did not get it, until I read your posts!!
This is what I thought...
I thought that Silvy didn't actually die. I know he read the headline in the paper saying they found her body, but the whole film I was waiting for something like "oh they made a mistake it was someone else's body".
I thought that Ruby was actually Silvy all grown up. I thought that Silvy had partially drowned, but as a result of the trauma of almost drowning had lost her memory from that point onwards and had somehow grown up in another town and never saw her parents again.
Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, expecting a happy ending as a result of too many hollywood films, eh?
I was wondering why she would write 'bury me'...I was thinking "okay, maybe adult Silvy has a condition and knows she is going to die soon and wants to die in the town where she grew up"
I can't believe how bad I am at understanding films...but now I get it, thanks to all of you!!
*goes away to try and grow a brain* :-P
To Anja: Don't worry, it isn't the most obvious movie to "get", at least not
the first time.
Here's what I thought at first:
I didn't even realize right away that the older Sam and the younger Sam were
the same person, or that Sam and Ruby were a few decades later in time than
young Sam and Silvy. So I was thinking something like, "why are these two
couples alike?" THEN when I caught on (during the hypnosis scene) that Ruby
was Silvy, THAT'S when I really knew for sure that middle-aged Sam and young
Sam were the same person, that Silvy had drowned years ago, etc. (In my defense,
I should add that I was a bit bored by the beginning of the movie and only paid
half-attention until the parts where the young-Sam-and-Silvy scenes were being
shown with/near the older-Sam-and-Ruby scenes.) Also, I didn't catch on at first
(I mean, when I first caught on about who she was) that Ruby was a ghost,
I thought she was the living reincarnation of Silvy (so it was a bit of a
mystery when she suddenly "died" again for no apparent reason [until I
suddenly had a feeling that when Sam came back to the boat, there wouldn't
be anyone in it, and sure enough, there wasn't]). (Anyway, I thought until
almost the very end that Sam was probably supposed to keep Ruby with him
and alive, and not let anything happen to her [this time, this life]...but if she
was a ghost already, then it wasn't even his choice any more.)
So Anja, you're not the only one who didn't understand. (I think it's actually
the kind of movie where the audience is supposed to suddenly realize bits and
pieces of things about it as they watch it [you ARE supposed to figure out by
the end what happened, but honestly, I didn't really know either UNTIL the end!].)
You're not stupid or something. It's a weird film. I still don't completely
understand EVERYTHING in it, I'll probably have to see it again to really
understand more of the "clues" to the "mysteries" etc.! (But that's sort of
partly what's good about it, I mean, that it's a maze of mysteries like that!
I love when stories are like mazes! ^_^ [Even if it is sort of difficult to
find a path through them sometimes! ^_~])
Kit =^__^= (the mystic^_^/magic^_^ cat=^__^= who=^__^= is definitely
NOT all-knowing/all-seeing/etc.!!!)
"I am not young enough to know everything."
------- Sir James Matthew Barrie (author of Peter Pan)
(I bet he would've liked Till Human Voices Wake Us! ^_^)
(He liked ghosts/spirits/etc. [In the book Peter Pan,
it says that when children died, Peter Pan went partway
(to the other side) with them, so they wouldn't be frightened. ^_^]
[I think that the Peter Pan of the book and play is sort of like
an ancient (but very youthful ^_^) spirit or something. Or ghost.
In some ways. ^_^] ["I'm youth, I'm joy, I'm a little bird that's
just broken out of the egg..." ^____^])
=^___^=
Words that I JUST now thought of, on the subject of Sam NOT needing to or
being supposed to COMPLETELY "let go of" Silvy/Ruby:
He needs to be able to carry her spirit with him through the rest of his life,
because without her he is only half-alive. (And/or only half-himself.)
Anyone else like that idea too? ^_^
I want to write (and read ^_^) ghost stories! ^_^
(Especially of the love story/friendship story variety. ^_^)
(Anyway, I think that Sam HAD "let go of" Silvy too much in the wrong way
[he didn't even have her with him in dreams or imagining her with him or
anything] [unless she was with him in dreams that he couldn't remember? ^_^].
I think that she "came back", whether literally and/or otherwise, to give him
the message that she wasn't really "gone", that in spirit she was still there,
and still with him as long as he really remembered her and really loved her. ^_^)
(If you "let go" too much and too utterly, what happens is that you have
nothing left, and THEN you really ARE lost...with your spirit not just bereft
but shutting down, almost like you aren't really "there" any more either. To
keep those you love with you in spirit is to keep being yourself. ^_^ And it's
also a way of remembering to be your BEST self [the self that they, and God/
the angels/whatever, would want you to be ^_^]. [That's not exactly entirely
my own original idea, but it's still good/true/etc.! ^_^])
(Letting go in a good way is...just another way of holding on. ^_^ And love is
ABOUT holding on. ^_^ Forever. ^_^)
Kit =^___^=
=^___^=
You are not dumb! I had similar thoughts myself as well--that Silvy had somehow survived and lost her memory. I must also add that with all the references to mermaids as well, I even began to wonder if the young Silvy had desired to be a mermaid..free from her handicap. She sometimes had a rather haunted, unearthly look on her face at times--almost as if she wasn't of this earth and desired to be elsewhere. Remember when they were floating in the water holding hands and there was one shot where we (the viewer) could see beneath them? It was a beautiful shot, but I also had the impression that there was something in the water, watching them, perhaps calling to Silvy? She did act strangely right after that. What I don't remember is if she let go of his hand or vice versa? If it was Silvy who let go of his hand, perhaps my mermaid theory is correct.
Don't feel bad, I just finished watching it now for the first time and did not get it AT all. I knew to come on these message boards and find the truth. lol People are very insightful. It was an excellent movie, I'm just glad I understand it now.
"Happy endings are just stories that haven't finished yet."-Jane Smith
I like your comments-I’ve worked over the ‘spirit of Silvy’ argument in my mind, and I still don’t like it. Just because he did not seem to recognize Silvy in Ruby in the beginning does not mean that she was not a creation of his psyche-I still think he conjured her, perhaps somewhat unconsciously, for the purpose of exorcising his guilt and shame over her death. Remember he has the tools of an analyst, but has suppressed the whole thing for most of his life since her death. Here are two ideas that I think support my theory-in the beginning, on the train, he fell asleep and then was awakened when his book fell off of his lap. This is when he first met Ruby. When he returned to his seat after talking with the conductor, Ruby was gone-it was his first meeting with his figment, as he was on his way to the town where Sylvie lived and died.
Secondly, in the end, when he sets the boat off with her in it, the boat drifts back and he finds she is not there. If this were Sylvy’s spirit in another body, where did the body go this time? I think the whole thing of him getting the boat, putting it in the water, and setting it adrift was symbolic of his finally letting her go, after reliving interacting with her as a contemporary, which he had to do in order to release her, since he was no longer a teen. Of couse a movie like this is prone to having many interpretations, none really right or wrong. That’s what made it so good.
[deleted]
I saw it a few days ago and I'm still simultaneously enchanted and haunted
(yes, parts of it scare me too, and for me at least, I think I do know why,
it's the idea of losing people so easily etc. [too like "real life" in that
way, maybe?]). (I'd MUCH rather any beautiful ghost story than some slasher
movie, though [I more-or-less accidentally saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre in the
middle of the night and it was plain disgusting, but I kept watching anyway
(well, listening, really...I deliberately didn't look at every bit of it!)].
I don't mind some semi-horrific movies like the Candyman movies and the Poltergeist
movies, but honestly, give me a ghost story any day [even a horrific one]
[like Candyman, Poltergeist, etc.] [or Audrey Rose etc. (I think the book
For the Love of Audrey Rose was scarier, though, but then again I was quite
young when I read it)] over some stupid slasher thing that's only "scary"
because it's gross [I'd rather see the X-Files episode "Home" than The
Texas Chainsaw Massacre! ("Home" is the one that was banned because it was
so gross etc.!)].) (Anyway enough about gross movies...my point was/is,
I'd MUCH rather be pleasantly haunted by a GOOD movie even if it is a
bit creepy sometimes! ^_^)
I think Ruby is a real ghost, but I also think that whoever said somewhere
that it doesn't necessarily really matter very much if she's "real" as much
as it matters what the feelings etc. are has it right too. (Part of the point
of such stories IS usually that the feelings of the live person about the
ghost/spirit would not be understood by others, that the ghost/spirit would
not be seen by others, etc. [Also Sam doesn't seem to interact much with
anyone else either except in the past...is he a ghost too? ^_~])
Anyway it may be because I love ghostly love stories, but I honestly don't
think that COMPLETELY letting go is the point or is necessary...I think that
he was supposed to "lay the ghost to rest" but WITH the knowledge that she
will always be in his heart...this is implied in the ending of the movie too,
I think. (Note: Unless you're a very unusual kind of person, you CAN'T really
healthily let go UNLESS you keep a part of the other person with you. To JUST
set them adrift and that's all is NOT to let go, it is to refuse to acknowledge
that anything has even happened...there has to be SOME sort of closure afterward,
I think. [And I think that I'll quit talking like a psychologist now, because
that sort of thing eventually just ruins>_< the beauty^_^ and magic^_^ of
ghostly love stories!])
Kit =^__^=
=^__^=
Note: I think, really, what scares me a little about it is that they did both
"let go" of each other too much, for a while (at first literally, in the water,
and then later, when for many years he couldn't find her anywhere, not even
in his imagination or in dreams or anything). Whether literally or symbolically,
I think that really what she came back for was to STOP him from always
"letting go" (of her or anyone/anything) TOO MUCH. To really let go in
a good way isn't like that. It should be more relaxed than that. (Well,
admittedly they were both very relaxed, probably too relaxed, in the water
when they were young...that's probably how they came to let go of each other
TOO easily, and TOO literally, in the first place.)
I don't think that the movie is about the typical modern varieties of "learning
to let go". I think that it's really about holding on...which is usually part
of the good kinds of letting go in the first place.
Most people today seem to talk/think far too much about "letting go" etc.
What on earth do they think is wrong with HEALTHILY holding on, which,
if anything, usually HELPS people to be ABLE to healthily let go?
Life, and love, and death, and everything, isn't limited to human knowledge
of psychology. (There is more in heaven and earth than Horatio [in Hamlet]
is aware of in his philosophy. And all that stuff. ^_^)
Kit =^__^=
=^___^=
O.K. I do think she was a wishful "hallucination" on his part, but I do admit only seeing the film once and not understanding it so....
Did he die at the end? He seemed so still in the boat, and I Didn't see him blink...?
Let me know what I missed/misunderstood?
Thanks!
"I offer you this rose...my heart, my soul, my love."
"Love?"
- Legend
HI, well i have just found this site, because i am sooooooo confused by this film, i have read your posts, and what of ruby then, was she a ghost or somebody eles,
and why did he take her back to the water after letting her go if in the first place and let her go again???
and where did she go when he got in the boat???
i must say i brought this film on e bay, just a a weekend quickie after i put the kids to bed, oh and i wish i had,nt i hate films that leave me wondering,
i sorry i cant be any help, but can any one answer my questions,
i just cant sit through it again,
my husband to watched it with me and he is a baffled as me??
i,m not saying i did,nt like the film,
i did i just did,nt like the way it ended leaving not understanding the end????
Er...well, I don't know what more I can explain besides what I've already
explained...you might try (re)reading some of my, and other people's,
earlier posts in this thread? ^_^
But I'll try, just in case it helps...^_^
You're kind of supposed to interpret a lot of those things yourself, I think.
But anyway...my interpretation is, yes, Ruby is Silvy, and yes, she is
probably a ghost (which I didn't actually gather until she suddenly wasn't
there [in the boat] or just before that!) And...where did she go? Open to
interpretation, especially if you mean specifically "where"...wherever ghosts go...
back to heaven, I guess...anyway "why" is easier...she disappeared because she
was either a ghost or imagination/memory/symbolic/etc., and she probably hadn't
literally, physically been there in the first place (does that make any sense?).
(And, no, I don't think she's a hallucination [why on earth should she be a
hallucination? why can't she be either a real ghost or a symbol/daydream/etc.?
people don't have to be hallucinating to see things that other people don't see!!!
especially^_^ in stories, movies, etc.!!!].) (I read a ghost story where
a woman showed a young girl a toddler in a crib, and the toddler apparently
wasn't exactly a ghost in the usual sense, because the woman never had had a
baby, so she [the toddler, named Rose] was apparently more like a hope or a
daydream, and yet she was visible! ^_^ [The girl asked her own mother, who knew
things about that house, "What did I see? Was Rose a ghost?" and her mother
replied, "I don't know what you saw, but there never was a baby."])
(And, no, I don't have any reason at all to believe that Sam died at the end...
actually, I never even thought of that, but I'm pretty sure that's not it...
I think he was just lying down in the boat where she'd been, sort of as a
connection to her, or something!)
As to why he took her to the water (after she "died" again, or her soul left
her temporary body, or whatever): I think that was because she (when she was
Silvy) drowned in the water in the first place, and he was probably just
giving her back to the water (also, it was [in some ways] like the poem
he was reading to her, the one from which the movie's title comes)...
also, setting a body adrift in the water is one of the ancient time-honored
ways of burial/release/whatever anyway. (Also, I think that he knew by then
that she was symbolic or a ghost or both, and that putting her back into the
water was probably just the logical thing to do, to let both of them find peace etc.)
(Also, did anyone notice, she [Silvy] died in the water, then came back to
him [as Ruby] out of the water, then he gave her back to the water at the end?
[It could be sort of a symbolic thing about letting the water carry away the
sorrow/pain/etc., too.])
Well, anyway, the whole movie is very symbolic, and you're really supposed to
interpret a lot of it for yourself...but I hope^_^ that I've at least provided
a few starting points (which might just make you wonder more, but I don't know,
maybe in some ways that's a good^_^ thing!!!).
Kit =^___^=
=^___^=
Actually, talking of people looking dead or not...to me, Ruby didn't look dead
when she "died" again...she just looked asleep...and she hadn't been dying, as
far as I could tell, and up until then I'd still thought that she was literally
alive and the reincarnation of Silvy...so it took me a little while to even
figure out that she had "died" again (and, to me, her "death" [as Ruby]
and subsequent disappearance are both inexplicable UNLESS she's a ghost
and/or imaginary/symbolic/etc.!!!).
Kit =^__^=
=^___^=
(P.S. Believe me, it helps a LOT^_~ if you're at least used to ghost stories etc.
[and^_~ used to SEVERAL KINDS OF BIZARRE ghost stories!!! ^_~].)
=^___^=
That does help. Thanks a lot.
I did read the posts here, but all the theories made it confusing.
I had wondered if there was a 'literal' meaning (i.e. director's commentary). But it seemed to be about what I thought it was: Silvy/Ruby was a ghost, and came back to help him let her go (as he was in such understandable torment and guilt over her death). I hadn't thought of how he could have realized she was a ghost coming back (well done! ), and that was why he didn't blink or react at all at her not being in the boat after a while. He was just at peace, finally.
Beautiful film!
Thanks again!
What's so great about 'lazy'?!
What if war were declared and nobody showed?
A lot of people believe Ruby was a manifestation of his mind during some sort of internal process. There are a lot of clues to this. The fact that no one else sees her, even during her erratic dance hall scene. The psych talk at the beginning.
However, some (like myself) prefer a romantic viewpoint. The idea that Silvy somehow comes back to help Sam conquer his guilt/demons and find emotional release. I take, for example, that same dance hall scene and the fact that Ruby does, in fact, take notice that she is not acknowledged by others and is disturbed by it. If she was just a part of Sam's mental projection, would she really have so much self-awareness?
Plus, it sort of makes that whole sex scene awkward if it's just his mind working things out. I mean, I've been told to go f__ myself, but that's taking it to another level. LoL
And it's just more romantic that way for me. Yes, someone could say that the entire point of using Prufrock is to show that it's a delusion or a fantasy that he's trying to conjure even as he realizes the untruth. Or one could argue that by concentrating on the very beginning and last stanzas...instead of the more self-pitying and rather depressing question and self-doubt in the middle, that it's the more imaginative dreamer, escapism, and fantastical being emphasized and brought to life. I could sit here and debate, but why? I mean, that's one of the great things about all art, be it a painting or a film. It's subjective and open to various interpretation.
However, you specifically asked for explanations, so I just chimed in with my 2 cents.