MovieChat Forums > Captain Corelli's Mandolin (2001) Discussion > Fascist Italy was a laughing stock durin...

Fascist Italy was a laughing stock during World War II


Its soldiers were incompetent, stupid, dumb, undisciplined, low in morale, a bunch of cowards, poorly-trained, mediocre, inefficient, a total disgrace. It was only good in parades and other field demonstrations, but it's a laughing stock when it comes to fighting wars. While its Axis partners Japan and Germany were conquering other countries, the Italian Army was busy enjoying the good life, playing music, dancing, chasing women, getting drunk,etc. They launched an invasion they couldn't accomplish. They couldn't even hold Greece for more than 3 weeks, distorting Germany's war strategy (the Wehrmacht were forced to intervene in order to retrieve the situation).

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[deleted]

I think thats the point. The Italians never really had their heart in the war. You get this feeling even more when they read the book. Compared to the Germans and Japanese, who truly believed it was their God-given right to conquer the world.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

The Italians had their hearts in the war at the beginning (and even before, when they attacked in Ethiopia) when they thought they would be on the winning side. Only when things turned against them did they discover their lost humanistic "aversiveness" to fascism (NB Italy went fascist long before Germany).

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While its Axis partners Japan and Germany were conquering other countries, the Italian Army was busy enjoying the good life, playing music, dancing, chasing women, getting drunk,etc.

In other words, living life at its best instead of causing death and destruction. Something to actually be proud of.

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My Great Uncle fought against them in WW2 and said that they were pussies that would flee when things got even slightly tough.

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[deleted]

That's bullcrap.

Aussies (and Kiwis) fought extremely hard and bravely in North Africa, also throughout Southeast Asia.

And I don't give a crap either way, I'm German-Chinese-American.

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They're all *beep* They had more troops than the British in North Africa and yet, they were very fast in running away. Yes, running away right in the middle of the desert. They just added another headache to the Germans.

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Yeah, if someone from the highly respected and feared Australian army says so...

Wait... Australia has an army?!? Holy footnote!

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[deleted]

I think the point of his/her post was that the notion of Italian soldiers all being too busy enjoying life to be "serious" is a bunch of malarkey.

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[deleted]

I don't know if its realistic that the soldiers of a dictatorship like Mussolini's can behave like they are portrayed in this movie. Admittedly I don't know too much about fascist Italy and in America we don't learn much about it compared to the overall society in Germany and Japan in WW2 with the Nazi propaganda and the samurai culture. But it seems the Italian soldiers in this movie were not really loyal to Mussolini.

But the Italians were smart to overthrow Mussolini when they did. This allowed Italy to avoid the wholesale destruction that Germany and Japan experienced so Italy's cities are still very historic unlike Berlin or Tokyo which were totally destroyed in the war and completely rebuilt.

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Well the Germans were Catholic, sort of why I think Hitler asked Mussolini and the Italians.

We're Italians inferior to the other axis? Of course. Their army was nothing of size or skill. But is Germany really going to destroy Rome and the Vatican and the pope when his new generation of superior race believed in this religion and followed it and fed it to their own society.

Even then, and now, to bomb the Vatican and pope and seed of Catholicism would be an act beyond terrorism.... Religilation!

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They were not as bad as the propaganda makes them out to be.
remember they were praised by Rommel, Churchill and stalin.
Kicked yank ass at kasserine pass.



Eat the Neocons.

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Not true the Italians did horrific things during the WW2 this movie is even modelled on this revisionism that occurred. Watch Lion in the Desert it was banned in Italy until 2009. The Nazi's modelled themselves after facist Italy, the denial of Italian war crimes was backed up by the Italian state, academe, and media, re-inventing Italy as only a victim of the German Nazism and the post-war Foibe killings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_war_crimes

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Nazi Germany, Croatia and Japan were a lot and I mean a lot worse than Italy was during ww2.

anyway.
101 Italian victories

11.01.1941 Italian Air Force disables HMS Ilustrious, allowing the safe arrival of the Afrika Korps.
24.01.1941 BCS fight the first sucessfull action against a British armoured force near Derna.
25.01.1941 Bersaglieri fight a sucessfull delaying action near Derna.
27.01.1941 Bersaglieri mount a very strong counterattack on the Australians, buying much valuable time.
??.04.1941 Ariete captures Msus
08.04.1941 Ariete captures Mechili. Bersaglieri capture 3,000 Allied troops.
01.05.1941 Ariete & Brescia capture overrun 7 Australian strongpoints ( R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, R7 and R8) outside Tobruk
04.05.1941 Australians counterattack but the Trento, Pavia & Ariete defeat the attacks.
17.05.1941 Brescia penetrates the sectors of the Australian 2/9th and 2/10th Battalions, forcing the Australians to abandon the S8, S9 and S10 strongpoints.
24.05.1941 Brescia defeats an attacking infantry force, supported by tanks.
02.08.1941 Bersaglieri defeat the 2/43rd and 2/28th Battalions, in a final Australian attempt to recover the lost strongpoints.
15.05.1941 Bersaglieri anti-tank gunners derail the British offensive, known as Operation Brevity. A German Colonel later praised the Bersaglieri anti-tank gunners, saying they defended Halfaya Pass "...with lionlike courage until the last man against stronger enemy forces. The greatest part of them died faithful to the flag."
Mid-June 1941 Italian anti-tank gunners under Major Leopoldo Pardi destroy several British tanks, derailing Operation Battleaxe in the process.
27.05.1941 Ariete overruns the British-officered 3rd Indian Brigade.
29.05.1941 Ariete successfully defends the Afrika Korps rearguard
30.05.1941 Trieste successfully delivers food and provision to the Afrika Korps preventing their entire capitulation.
05.06.1941 Ariete again successfully defends the Afrika Korps rearguard
26.08.1941 Italian troops repell several Russian attacks on the Don front.
27.10.1941 Italians repell strong Russian attack in the Donets Basin, capturing several hundred.
10.11.1941 Italians defeat a Russian attempt to cross the Don River.
19.11.1941 Ariete blunts British offensive named Operation Crusader. 40 Crusader tanks are knocked out.
19.11.1941 Pavia repell column of British tanks in the area of El Adem. British forced to retreat.
20.11.1941 Bologna infantry and anti-tank gunners derail advance of the British 7th Armoured Brigade.
21.11.1941 Bologna defenders of the 'Tugun' strongpoint derail the advance of the British 70th Division
22.11.1941 'Tugun' defenders successfully defend their postion again.
23.11.1941 Pavia defeats British attempt to smash through the Bologna
25.11.1941 The Trento successfully defends the 'Bondi' strongpoint outside Tobruk.
26.11.1941 Bersaglieri defeat renewed British attempt to smash through the Bologna
29.11.1941 Ariete overruns the 21st New Zealand Battalion.
29.11.1941 Bersaglieri capture 1,800 Allied wounded, medical staff & guards. 200 German POWs are freed.
01.12.1941 Trento defeats an armoured attack outside Tobruk
01.12.1941 Trieste cuts off the link the New Zealanders had established with the Tobruk defenders.
04.12.1941 Pavia and Trento recapture ‘Plonk and ‘Doc’ strongpoints outside Tobruk.
06.12.1941 Pavia makes a successful stand on Point 157
07.12.1941 Bologna covers the retreat of the German Afrika Division
10.12.1941 Brescia covers the German retreat from Acroma Hill.
12.12.1941 Bologna, Brescia, Pavia, Trieste & Trento successfully hold the Gazala Line
13.12.1941 Trieste successfully defends Point 208
15.12.1941 Brescia, Pavia & Trento repell a stong Polish-New Zealand attack
15.12.1941 Ariete overruns The Buffs
12.06.1942 Trieste helps destroy the British 2nd & 4th Armoured Brigades by cornering them.
16.06.1942 Italians overrun & capture 6, 000 Allied troops outside Tobruk.
17.01.1942 Savona surrenders. It had defeated several Allied attacks. Rommel is very impressed.
11.07.1942 Bersaglieri overrun part of the Australian 2/48th Battalion.
14.07.1942 Colonel Angelozzi's 1st Battalion from the supposedly destroyed Sabratha recaptures Tel el Eisa from the Australians.
15.07.1942 Colonel Angelozzi's men defeat the Australian 2/23rd Battalion's attempt to recapture the position.
15.07.1942 Pavia & Brescia successfully defend their principal positions on Ruweisat Ridge. New Zealander battalion caught out on the open as a result and is captured with the arrival of German tanks.
17.07.1942 A battalion of the Trento overruns part of the Australian 2/32nd Battalion.
21.07.1942 Trieste & Brescia sucessfully defend their main positions on Ruweisat Ridge. Several hundred New Zealanders are captured thanks to their efforts, that allow German tanks to mount a counterattack.
27.07.1942 3rd Battalion of the 61st Trento Infantry Regiment derails the attack of the 2/28th Battalion.
27.07.1942 Armoured car squadron of the Brescia encircle and capture the Australian 2/28 Battalion
30.06.1942 Littorio surrounds Mersa Matruh & Bersaglieri capture 6,500 Allied soldiers.
01.07.1942 1,000 New Zealanders captured
??.09.1942 Bologna overruns defenders of Point 211 during the Battle of Alam el Halfa.
??.09.1942 Trieste, Brescia, Ariete & Littorio force British & New Zealanders to retreat several kilometres.
04.09.1942 Folgore defeat the 6th New Zealand Brigade & capture 200 attackers, including Brigadier G.M. Clifton.
14.09.1942 San Marco Marines defeat Allied seaborne landings aimed at recapturing Tobruk. 1,000 Allied killed, wounded or captured.
30.09.1942 Fogore defeat 131st Queens Brigade, over 300 British killed or captured.
24.10.1942 Ariete, Brescia & Folgore successfully hold the Alamein line.
25.10.1942 12th Bersaglieri overruns the Austalian 2/17th Battalion.
28.10.1942 Littorio overruns part of the British 133rd Brigade
29.10.1942 7th Bersaglieri derails the advance of the Austalian 26th Brigade and creates a salient in the Australian sector.
30.10.1942 7th Bersaglieri defeats several Australian attacks to force them out of this salient.
03.11.1942 Ariete successfully covers the retreat of Rommel
03.12.1943 Bersaglieri capture part of the British 2nd Parachute Battalion.
12.12.1942 Italian troops attack Russian battalions capturing prisoners a much equipment
18.02.1943. While the Germans fail taking Sbiba Pass, the 7th Bersaglieri smash the US lines at Kasserine Pass.
18.02.1943 Centauro Division overruns the US 19th Combat Engineers Regiment.
24.02.1943 5th Bersaglieri successfully covers the retreat of Rommel

*****3,000 Allied troops surrendered at Mechili. About 500 Australians were captured manning the Tobruk defences. Some 3,500 Allied troops fell into Italian hands during Operation Crusader. 1,000 Indian troops surrendered to the Ariete on 27 May 1942. 6,000 Allied troops surrendered to the Italians outside Tobruk on 16 June 1942. Some 7,000 Allied troops surrendered to the Italians in the area of Mersa Matruh in late June and early July 1942, including 1,000 New Zealanders abandoned in the desert. During the Battle of Kasserine Pass, the Bersaglieri and Centauro Division overran some 2,500 Americans.

Eat the Neocons.

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