MovieChat Forums > The Original Kings of Comedy (2000) Discussion > Original Kings? LOL

Original Kings? LOL

posted 12 years ago by DreTam2000
5 replies | jump to latest

In what lifetime are these guys the kings of anything?

This special came out in the year 2000. All of these guys were still new around the year 2000. They had all been doing their thing for roughly five years. Before this special, they had very little claim to fame. Harvey's show was still new. Cedric had only done "Comic View." Bernie Mac had starred in a few films. They were barely famous. They had only been icons for about a couple years (assuming they were even icons at all). Nobody knew any of them just five years before. DL Hughley had the most claim than any of them, and even he wasn't "King" of anything.

Shouldn't the phrase "Original Kings" be reserved for seasoned veterans at a given art or craft? People who have been icons for years and years..? Or, at least more than three or four years..? Guys like, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, Sinbad, Bill Cosby..?

And those are just some of the Black ones. How about Rodney Dangerfield..? Or the Late Great George Carlin..? Or tons of others...

Maybe arguably the most underrated and talented comedian of the last 25 years: John Leguizamo..?

You know, people who are actually funny...

As I stated in another thread... George Wilborn's performance in that Shaq special was funnier than anything in this "Original Kings" production. Hell, everyone in that Shaq special was funnier than this "Original Kings" special.

The only thing funny about this is the title.

I'm not a control freak, I just like things my way

[–] wel_da_war 12 years ago

I was just thinking the same thing. I loved this special. I thought it was pretty damn funny. However, I did find that them calling it "The ORIGINAL KINGS of Comedy" to be presumptuous and arrogant, not to mention complete and utter BS.

Even though it would have still been wrong, it would have at least been a bit more fitting to call it the "New Kings of Comedy" or something similar. You can't proclaim yourself "The Original Kings" just because you choose to ignore the 80 odd years of on-screen comedy, not to mention the thousands of years of comedy that existed before it.

The world is yours & everything in it. Its out there; get on your grind & get it.

[–] DreTam2000 12 years ago

Yes, but you know, I've noticed that businessmen have been doing this for years.

Mary J. Blige was vowed in the mid-90s as the "Queen of Hip-Hop Soul" after only one or two albums. That's it. Just one album; maybe two. Shouldn't the "queen" of something be someone who has been around or paid huge dues? Maybe won a grammy..? Maybe won lots of platinum plaques..? I mean, I love Mary J's first two albums and I think that there really isn't anyone else more fitting for such a title than her, but that's still not saying much. To be branded something just because there are no other suitable takers is a bit foolish. But powerful businessmen were behind her. Like Puff, for example; when these sorts of people coin a term, it sticks. It's great marketing.

Then there's rapper T.I. (who I cannot stand; and I grew up off 90s rap, and for years it was my favorite genre of music, until a few years ago when I discovered my love for early-80s and 70s Funk and Soul). This guy was vowed "King of the South" after maybe one or two albums. WTF is this clown? I had hardly even hard of him by the time they were calling him this so-called "King." Not only was he some new cat, but he could hardly even rap! On top of this, even if what he does could be considered "rappin'," then he still sucks compared to Outkast-- an iconic southern duo that predates him by a decade, and could rap circles around him any day of the week. How about Ludacris..? Another southerner who could rap circles around T.I. (and almost embarrassed him in a beef), predates him by some years, sells more records, does everything better than T.I. does, and yet he was never branded with this "King of the South" title.

It seems to be business, as usual. It's all about marketing. If it sticks, the people lap it up without asking questions.

As for this stand-up special, yeah, what nerve. Hell, even the title "Kings of Comedy" would have been less absurd without the word "original" accompanying it.

I'm not a control freak, I just like things my way

[–] wel_da_war 12 years ago

Hey, man, I love me some T.I.! I think he's a damn good rapper IMO. I prefer him over Luda, but I've been a fan of both since their first albums. I'm also a huge Outkast and Goodie MOB fan.

I'm very similar to you in that I recently (in the past few years) got heavy into old school funk and soul. I also got heavy into Blues. I stil can't quite get into "Mo-Town" music though.

I think the "King of the South" thing comes from a staple of Hip-Hop and Rap called "beef". It goes way back to emcees in the clubs in the early 80s "battling" over who was "King of the Club", which carried over into famous beefs like LL Cool J/Kool Moe Dee and LL Cool J/Canibus even though they were all relatively new rappers at the time. It's just a way to boost album sales. This carried on into subsequent eras of the genre. This escalated into the "King of the South" beef between T.I., Ludacris, and Lil' Flip, even though other rappers of the time were way more deserving, they just didn't need the hype to sell albums like those guys did.

In the end, most rappers these days agree, or at least they did as of a few years ago, that T.I. is considered the "King of the South". Of course, it's really a BS title, since you have other people like Lil Wayne saying they are the Greatest Rapper Alive, Nas saying he's the Releast N**ga Livin', and other rappers fighting over who is the Greatest of All Time.

As far as other genres go, I thought it was understood that Elvis is still the King of Rock, James Brown is the King of Soul, Michael Jackson is the King of Pop, and Aretha Franklin is the Queen of Soul. Anybody saying Mary J. Blige is the Queen of Soul is mistaken IMO. If anything, she would be the Queen of R&B, but that's highly debatable.

*Edit*
I reread your post and I have to disagree about T.I. The "King of the South" beef didn't really start until about '04 and didn't get big until '05/'06, and by then T.I. had several albums out.

"I'm Serious" - 2001
"Trap Muzik" - 2003
"Urban Legend" - 2004
"King" - 2006

The beef carried over into 2008 when he had beef with Shawty Lo, and by then he had two more albums.

"T.I. vs. T.I.P." - 2007
"Paper Trail" - 2008

All of his albums went multi-platinum, and the first three were critically acclaimed. That's why people started calling him King of The South, assuming the throne that most likely Outkast had pretty much vacated at the time. They had quit really being "rappers" and had turned "pop stars", doing such experimental albums like "Stankonia" and "Speakerboxxx/The Love Below". I'm not saying they're bad albums, but they're not really "gangsta rap" or "hip-hop" if you follow me.

The real problem is that T.I. and Luda had personal beef, which got thrown in by the public with the KOTS beef, which was between T.I. and Lil' Flip. For years, Georgia rappers dominated the "southern rap" genre, but by the early 2000s Texas had gained a stronghold with UGK having hit legendary status, Lil' Flip becoming a household name, and Tennessee rappers like 8ball/MJG and Three 6 Mafia backing them up and practically dissing/ignoring their own neighbors to the south.

Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling, but all the rap BS has backstories and reasons behind it. It's all interconnected, and is something that is lacking these days. There's no real diversity anymore. Folks in NY got the same styles now as folks in Atlanta and they have the same styles as folks in Houston and they have the same styles as folks in L.A.

Hip-hop just isn't as regional as it used to be. It's sad, really.

The world is yours & everything in it. Its out there; get on your grind & get it.

[–] DreTam2000 12 years ago

They were calling T.I. the "King of the South" back in 2004. But like you and I both said, in different words: It's about money.

"Boost album sales."
"Marketing."

Same thing.

I know what you mean about "Mo-Town." I call it "Doo-wop." I'm not a fan of most of that stuff either. But most Doo-wop artists also had soul ballads that were badass and didn't have the typical Motown sound of the time. Jackie Wilson, The Temptations, Sam Cooke... all these guys had natural soul ballads and funk tunes as well as some Doo-Wop stuff. "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" is pretty controversial and dark compared to Temptations other stuff (one of the reasons I love it so much).

Anyhow, back to rap: I don't know what to say about T.I., other than he is weak as a rapper. But this is coming from someone who grew up in the 90s, when all rap was rippin' and rhymin' and just straight-up hard and atmospheric. Today's rap has no atmosphere (but times have changed; the crack epidemic fueled the previous era, which was highly rugged). If I had a choice of who to listen to between T.I. or Lil' Wayne, I would choose the least annoying one. I'm honestly not sure who that would be, but I guess it would be T.I. I was never a big Ludacris fan either, but the dude is undeniably one of the dopest rhymers to ever grace the mic. As far as between him and T.I., it's not even close really. One dude can clearly rap. The other is just a bunch of words with "swagger." I remember when I was a junior in highschool back in 2001, the other kids (who thought they were into rap more than me, but they really weren't) thought that rappers like Beanie Segal and Freeway were tight rappers. But they had never heard any real classic stuff like 36 Chambers or The Infamous or Ready to Die or Illmatic or Reasonable Doubt. They couldn't hear how lame these new cats were in comparison. Fabulous..? WTF..

You listen to Goodie Mob too, eh..? Soul Food is one of my most favorite albums. For the record, if he wanted to Ludacris could have punished T.I. permanently with a classic diss song that could have ended the latter's career. Instead he only sent out shots here and there, and never dropped a true bomb on him like he could have.

I too feel like I am rambling now (tryin' to figure out where to stop at).

Elvis has often been deemed the "King." I never knew what he was king of though. Rock..? Yikes. That very much reminds me of T.I. being "King of the South." Ions of rappers from the south better than him, just like ions of rock artists wipe the floor with Elvis (Jimi Hendrix, Prince). As for Mary J, she has always been known as the "Queen of Hip-Hop Soul." But I am very familiar with the 90s as far as rap and R&B goes, and so I could say for sure that no one else really would be fit for such an appellation. So if they decided to give it to Mary, "oh well," I guess...

James Brown was the "Godfather" of Soul, incidentally.

But most of these titles are just stupid because they are rushed and hardly thought out by the time they are created. What is the criteria for being the "King of Pop" exactly? Thriller being the highest selling album of all time..? So what? It's still vague.

Stevie Wonder might be the greatest musician and vocalist of the last fifty years. No one brands him the "King" of anything. Prince might be the most talented, uniquest multi-instrumentalist and performer of the last thirty years. He is no-doubt as big as Elvis, equally iconic, more talented, plays more instruments, more diverse, bigger quantity (in conjunction with quality) of classic material, and as far as sexiness goes most women on the planet yearn to sleep with him. Yet Prince is not labeled the "King" of anything. Not even the "King of Gigolos." These "King" and "Godfather" things are just things that stick. Marketing. Business. Nonsense. But money!

Speaking of our shared love for Funk, though, George Clinton is supposed to be the "King" or "Godfather" of Funk. But, to me, that is a downsizing for someone as influential and huge a prodigy as GC. The word "Funk" as a genre, to me, is a downplay, because much of Funk could readily be classified as Rock. But then that wouldn't fall in line with the musical timeline's destiny of stripping African-American musicians of the Rock genre, now would it? ;-

Sorry for the long post; wouldn't mind knowing what sorts of Funk or Soul you like to jam to..

[–] wel_da_war 12 years ago

You know, I've talked music with a lot of folks on these boards and on other websites, and you're like the closest to my own tastes that I've ever met.

I agree 110% about growing up in the 90s. IMO, nothing to this day can touch albums like "Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers"), "Bizarre Ryde II the Pharcyde", "All Eyez On Me", "Ready To Die", "Life After Death", "People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm", "Midnight Marauders", "ATLiens", "Aquemeni" "Soul Food", "Still Standing", "Chapter 2: World Domination", "E. 1999 Eternal", "Liquid Swords", "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx", "Dead Serious", "Generation EFX", "Uptown Saturday Night", "3 Feet High And Rising", "Sex Packets", "Death Certificate", "The Predator", "Lethal Injection", "Illmatic", "It Was Written", "Reasonable Doubt", man I could go on and on.

George Clinton is awesome, same goes for Afrika Bambaataa, and my all time favorites are Gap Band. I grew up listening to those guys.

I just don't understand your hate for T.I. I mean, I'll admit I haven't cared for much of anything after "Urban Legend", but "Paper Trail" is probably my favorite album of his. He killed it on that one. If you don't like "Paper Trail" though, I definitely recommend listening to "I'm Serious". The songs on that album that sold me on T.I.'s greatness is "What Happened" and "Still Ain't Forgave Myself". It's got other great tracks though like "I Can't Be Your Man", "Dope Boyz", "I'm Serious", especially the remix, but hell that whole album is a classic.

My main thing with T.I. is that while our tastes on his "rhymes" may differ, what I really find appealing about him is his flow. Back on his first few albums, dude could spit. I mean, really spit and twist like the old school albums. Not quite on Bone Thugz & Harmony or Twista's level, but definitely up there with somebody like Lord Infamous. I just think he went too mainstream after the success of "King" in '06.

I quit liking Luda after "Word of Mouf", but he regained my respect with "Theater of the Mind".

I guess in the end, it comes down to albums.

For Luda, I like -

"Back For The First Time"
"Word of Mouf"
"Theater of the Mind"

For T.I. it's -

"I'm Serious"
"Urban Legend"
"King"
"T.I. vs. T.I.P."
"Paper Trail"

T.I. wins 5-3

That's not to say I didn't give the other albums a listen, but they don't have the replay values that the ones I listed do IMO.

I forgot about James Brown being the "Godfather of Soul" instead of "King". You're right. All these titles are superfluous and really pointless.

*Edit*
I missed your question about the funk and soul.

To be honest I'm not super knowledgeable about it, I kind of just listen to funk stations when I'm in the mood, but of the top of my head (some of these bands cross genres) -

Gap Band
Earth, Wind, & Fire
George Clinton
S.O.S. Band
James Brown (Particularly the drummer Clyde Stubblefield)
Little Richard
Isley Brothers
Sly and the Family Stones
Kool & The Gang
Commodores
Prince
Kraftwerk

You're definitely right about Stevie Wonder by the way. I'd add Elton John to that list as well. When I was younger, I didn't care for him, but as I've gotten older I've learned to really appreciate his music.

The world is yours & everything in it. Its out there; get on your grind & get it.