Seriously, Zhao Di is 20 year old woman but acts like a fourteen-year old schoolgirl. She doesn't dare approaching the teacher she is secretly in love with and giggles everytime he looks at her.
Is this something cultural, because in west we expect a woman to take care of herself?
Initially when she first met Yungshen she was 18 years old. And secondly yes you can be sure of that in east things don't work out the same way as in west. The year is 1958 and the place is a small village in the far east not in the center of a european country or US or even a city center in far east. It is obviously a type of behaviour that belongs to that culture and **that time.
shareHi. I'm Chinese and I can confirm that Zhao Di behaved appropriately for her age in a remote village in 1958. Even now, the majority of young women in the Far East are not as forward as those in the west.
shareWhat do you mean by taking care of herself? She was a young girl who could cook, clean and help her blind mother at the age of 18, alone. What average 'woman in west' has the mentallity to do that? Most girls I know that age here in Holland don't show much of that maturity.
It is not hard to understand the courtship is cultural and specific for that time.
I was more speaking of her love to the teacher. Taking care of the home was nothing more than a duty. It required responsibility, yes, but she did only what she was told. There where no rules stopping her from approaching the teacher, though she didn't. Sure she is shy, but expressing attraction the way she did reminds me of the girls in my elementary school.
sharei agree with your comments meatnobs. i couldn't appreciate the movie bc of the actress's girlie attitude, looking for attention.
i don't call any of this love, just co dependency, from girl to boy, boy who likes the attention so he likes her back, blind mom to girl for girl to tend to her.
not to mention girl grown into old woman who cannot live without her husband and starts to depend on her son - you must teach for one day-
and dependence and need of aproval of boy from mom- yes i'll teach one day for you and dad.
(we never saw scenes of him and dad to explain )
CRAP ! If i see one more image of "elementary school girl" bouncing up and down the valley (notice the director makes her bounce more many times in one scene)- I'll scream!
thank you for the one comment that differs from everyone's " I'm a grown man and I cried"
yuck.
Reading the various comments about this film makes me smile. I think there are a lot of cultural differences and historical contexts that are not very familiar to the western audience. To the Chinese audience, these are non-issues. And, there is a very strong political sub-text that's only obvious to those who are familiar with the post-Mao history of China.
However, that's not to say this film is perfect--no, by no means. I like this film, I think it's good, but not excellent.
There are 2 places that I think could do better. First, director Zhang Yimo could have toned down on the smiling girl (Zhao Di) bouncing up and down the valley in slow motion. Zhang definitely overdid it.
Second (and this is what really buggs me), the big difference between the accent of Zhao Di as a girl (almost perfect Mandarine) and as an old woman (extremely strong Shanxi dialect) is just impossible. I mean, what was Zhang Yimo thinking??? It's like she spoke King's English as a girl and then speaks Cockney English 20 or 30 years later!
I think highly of Zhang yimo's movies (like "Huo zhe" etc.), and I certainly would like his filmes even better if he is more careful with some details and not overdo it with too much sentimentality.
Watching the film, I also thought Zhao Di was extremely dependent upon the object of her love. And yet, think about the social circumstances: she's a very poor, illiterate young woman, and he is a teacher, a figure that inspires respect and reverence. The odds that she would be able to get him to notice her are low. Doesn't her mother say at one point, when he doesn't show up, forget it, you're not for him? Zhao Di doesn't give up, and because she doesn't give up, she ends up getting what she wants.
The odds that she would be able to get him to notice her are low.
At the beginning of the film it was said that she was the most beautiful woman in the village, which is also why she made the red banner for the school.
In China, through out history and now, the concept of someone's looks taking precedence over their leavel of education and social status was thought to be ludicrus. Social status was everything, and a man with education was revered as a lord or hero (as the film indicates. The original point made was valid.
shareExactly. Social status and class are remarkably central in Chinese culture/s. And, of course -- and quite properly -- teachers are viewed as heroic -- and they are -- because education is of the highest value.
In the West, by contrast, stupidty is promoted as "independent thinking," and education rejected, even by media.
And in most cultures, women marry "up" -- in order to better their social and economic situation: they expect to have children, which are dependent on the parents -- primarily the mother -- for survival and subsistence. The greater the assets the parents have, the better the circumstances for the children.
And all the "co-dependency" nonsense is based upon a Western concept of unachievable -- and both unrealistic and unhealthy -- individualist "independence". Like it or not, every one of us depends on others, howevermuch some prefer to overlook that reality.
I think ZY did overdo the bouncing pigtailed girl thing a bit, though I get why he emphasized it: to show her girlishness, her innocence.
If you know any Chinese at all you'll notice the difference in accent. I kinda thought of it as something that happens when one gets older and older, staying in the same village for your whole life. Still Shanxi accent is really different from the Beijing Mandarin, the slurred 'r' on the end and such. Most Americans would not notice though, so I guess ZY overlooked it for that reason.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
"Taking care of the home was nothing more than a duty."
Actually it wasn't, as she appeared quite happy with her life. She obviously enjoyed cooking.
"It required responsibility, yes, but she did only what she was told."
There is no instance in the film in which she is told what to do. She enjoys her life, and fulfills her responsibilities without it feeling like a "duty".
"There where no rules stopping her from approaching the teacher, though she didn't."
There were cultural rules, as there is in every culture. In fact, in the West, even today, the man is expected to make the overtures.
"Sure she is shy, but expressing attraction the way she did reminds me of the girls in my elementary school."
I wouldn't say she is shy. Rather, she was, on one hand, constrained by cultural rules, and on the other, knowing what she wanted and going after it, bold.
yeah seriously! i would take Zhao Di over any white american girl anyday!
All white american girls know how to do is text talk on the phone, post on FB and spend money at the mall like the cash will never end. And trust me when the cash ends they will move on to the next guy!
so yeah pick Zhao a hard working womean who can take care of stuff. Or a idiot white girl who will drain your wallet and can't even boil water? Hmmmmm.... such a hard choice isn't it?
http://hemestate.blogspot.com/
-things I write on IMDB may come from my blog
yeah seriously! i would take Zhao Di over any white american girl anyday!
All white american girls know how to do is text talk on the phone, post on FB and spend money at the mall like the cash will never end. And trust me when the cash ends they will move on to the next guy!
so yeah pick Zhao a hard working womean who can take care of stuff. Or a idiot white girl who will drain your wallet and can't even boil water? Hmmmmm.... such a hard choice isn't it?
http://hemestate.blogspot.com/
-things I write on IMDB may come from my blog
In 1958, a small village in China, a girl acted like Zhao Di was extremely brave and "out-spoken". You have to keep in mind that at that time arranged marriage was the norm and girls were often married to a complete stranger. Zhao Di, however, pursued someone she loved, which took a lot of courage.
sharewell, that's the point,
in China, women's duty used to be:
"be obedient to your father before you're married, be obedient to your husband when you're married, be obedient to your son, when your husband is absent or dies".
We in the west have no idea what it would be like in a Chinese village - to try and impose our own values on this story will destroy this lovely tale of first and lasting love.
She was INNOCENT! This movie was exceptionally beautiful; I wouldn't change a thing.
And she's not taking care of herself how??? Btw she was 18, not 20? Maybe next time you post something you should actually pay attention. And yes it was cultural, again, if you paid any attention, you would've noted that it was a time of arranged marriages and there was a certain "exected role" of women, an union out of pure love was simply unheard of in that small country village, and Di's story stirred quite a sensation in that village (the son talks about it and even if he didn't yu can tell by the time period and the location it was set in). If she did what you said the movie would be a joke--n one in China acts like that during that time period and cultural backdrop.
shareTake it easy, honey. The topic I based my questions on where more more of an invite to a cultural discussion than critique of the film itself. I did like the movie, but with such a powerful story, it could have done without the extra encouragements of feelings.
sharetypical americanistism:
everyone has to agree with *your* viewpoint or they are wrong wrong wrong.
and then depending on how wrong wrong wrong they are they can expect a blockade (cuba) or be 'bombed into the stone age' (iraq)
so typical. this attitude has completely permeated every aspect of american culture, politics, art, economics. no one is safe.
what an atrocious position to take as if YOU are the arbiter of what is acceptable in a remote chinese village in 1958.
good grief when will it end.
I'm Japanese but didn't find her attitude any odd. it was totally natural in 1950s here in Japan, too. it's a cultural difference, and there's no need to approach in western way. there's no word, but there is a feeling. both can just feel it without expressing in a way that everyone understands. often silence and modesty tells more than speaking and activeness.
sharei think zhao di has a varying gesture towards her love than a woman from the west might. in the east, women (culturally and socially) instinctively are less frank and bold than their western counterparts. although this is a stereotypical connotation with eastern women, times have indeed changed even in the east, but certain customs (such as in south asian weddings, when the bride "shys away" from her husband and guests by covering her face) remain the same and dictate the way love and its expressions are conveyed in the east and west.
shareIf one actually watches the entire film, and reads the English subtitles, which are not complicated, and are sparse, one cannot miss any of the basic realities:
Arranged marraige is the norm.
Di has had proposals, but didn't like any of them, so rejected them.
She is actually in something of a bind (as was Sayuri in "Memoirs of a Geisha"): wanting to act on her feelings, but constrained by social norms that prohibit her doing so. And yet, in both instances, determination wins out, howevermuch it had to be engaged in indirectly, and with "signals" -- looks and body language -- instead of words.
There is truth, also, in the point about the thoughtless habit of USians imposing their views on other countries and cultures -- which is ironic in this instance: China is a 6,000 year old culture, by comparison with which the US is barely an infant. And yet that infant thoughtlessly concludes, with little or no foundation, that it can teach China something that China doesn't know, but China has nothing to teach the know-it-all infant.
That ignorance-based arrogance is summed up in the phrase, "ugly American".
Have to agree with you(as I usually do), jnagarya, but since I'm American I have to say we're more than an infant, though still, campared to China, quite young, and yes we can learn something from China's long history, but China can and should learn something from our Constitution, even though I admit we have strayed occasionally from it's reqirements, like invading a defenseless country (Iraq)
"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.
Defenseless country? BWAHAHA!!! with madman Saddam Hussein and his rapist sons at the helm?
I'm glad we got rid of him and gave Iraq the opportunity to be free. What they do with the gift we gave them is entirely up to THEM.
Gift we gave them? BWAHAHA!!! killing and injuring tens of thousands of their civilians and disrupting their water supply, causing much suffering?
Think about Zhao Di and other characters in The Road Home as similar to simple civilians in Iraq. Should we have bombed them to rid China of its communist leaders? Maybe thinking along those lines will change your attitude of support for our invasion of Iraq, jpb.
"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.
Under Jimmy Carter, Saddam Hussein's Iraq was put on the "terrorist state" list, and US corporations prohibited doing business with him. Dive "Five Deferments" Cheney's Halliburton got around that prohibition by establishing a front-corporation in the Caribbean.
Reagan took Saddam Hussein's Iraq off the "terrorist state" list in order to legally sell him weapons to use against Iraq. That included the gas with which he gassed Iranians -- not Iraqis. At the time he was doing it, neither Reagan not Daddy Bush gave a damn.
Then Daddy Bush encouraged the Iraqi people to rise up and overthrow Saddam, promising to back them when they did. But when they rose up, as Bush encouraged, Bush was a no-show, and those who rose up were slaughtered and buried in a mass grave. That mass grave would not have existed had Bush either not encouraged the uprising, or had kept his word to back it.
Calling Saddam Hussein a "madman" doesn't make it so. But, then, those who don't know th history -- the above being that -- aren't susceptible to thought and reflection. So whatever they are fed that will arouse their hate against an alleged "enemy" is sufficient for them to mouth off and reveal their ignorance and irrationality.
It is also the fact that Osama bin Laden was loudly on the record, for at least five years before Bush illegally invaded and occupied Iraq based upon a known lie, as wanting Saddam Hussein's gov't overthrown and replaced with a theocracy along the lines of that in Iran. The only thing bin Laden and Hussein had in common was that they were mutual ENEMIES.
So Bush overthrew Hussein's gov't, as bin Laden wanted, and replaced it with a gov't aligned with Iran -- as bin Laden also wanted.
Last but not least: Saddam Hussein was the most Westernized of leaders in the Middle East, and was a foremost exterminator of terrorists -- which is why there were no terrorists, or terrorist bombings in Iraq until after Bush imported "democracy" into Iraq. Now, thanks to Bush's notion of democracy -- lawlessness -- not a day goes by without bombings even in downtown Baghdad.
Why not just poison the water, and then wash one's hands of the results, while lying that the anarchy created is instead "democracy".
You are showing yourself to be exactly that I described above: a mental midget who is so arrogant that you have no problem with the US imposing its will, at the point of a gun, against the will of a people, while lying that that is "democracy". You are the sort of illiterate who embarrasses the US by exposing that anti-democratic hypocrisy at the core of the US right-wing's typical foreign policy.
OK: the US is at best a juvenile as compares with China.
And certainly every country can learn from every other country.
And I would hesitate before recommending our Constitution for other countries: we saw what happened in Iraq as result of that (actually insincere) intention.
I tell you what this it's all about: don't matter boy or girl young or old, when you are in love, you don't know what the f you supposed to do, that's all, take it back and relive it.
shareYou're looking at a young, virginal innocent girl in CHINA in *1958*, in an isolated village, living a simple life with her blind mother. Girls were EXPECTED to be innocent, a virgin, hardworking, and, for the most part, they were then. Communist China was only founded 9 years before the love story, and, morally, the Party was VERY sexually conservative; on top of that in any village around the girls were....well, girlish! They obeyed their parents and was not expected to "take care of herself"; her family did that until she married, then her husband took care of her.
She is shy with the teacher because he was of a higher social class, was educated and was a TEACHER, which is VERY respected, even now, in China. She did what she could to make sure he saw her: put on her red jacket, started using the well nearer to the school, put herself on the road he walked home, because that is ALL she could do, as a young maiden, and STILL that caused people to talk.
Whole books could be written on the social differences of modern American/European culture and Chinese culture. You have to look at the movie from the viewpoint of where it was made, the time and the place.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
>> You're looking at a young, virginal innocent girl in CHINA in *1958*, in an isolated village, .... <<
Was just gonna say. I guess compared to the 20-year-old slut muffins who've slept with 30 guys by that age and who live a life wallowing in the sea of vulgarity and hypersexuality that constitutes Western mass culture, maybe she seemed a little "girlish"--but I'm pretty sure which one I'd take in a competition over who could take care of herself best.
During the same year he made "The Road Home," Yimou made the film "Not One Less" -- which more overtly shows how much education is esteemed in China. Moreso, exponentially, than in the allegedly-superior US, where many falsely believe there is a "right" to be uneducated; to be stupid.
And that is based upon the false belief that "rights" ("freedom") and law are in conflict, opposed, when in fact it is in law that rights are secured, and protected; and law which establishes remedies for violations of those rights.
The survival of a democracy depends upon an accurately informed and educated population; there cannot be a "right" to be stupid.
The Founders were for "ordered liberty"; liberty WITHIN the law, not in spite of it. They were not for stupidity.
We see the same esteeming of teachers in "The Road Home"; especially in the funeral procession at the end, and how that came about, down to the detail that it is considered an honor to be help carry the coffin.