I'd just like to say Mary marries her first cousin, Colin. How disgusting is that? In the Prequel "The ecret Garden" Colin asks Mary if he would marry he could marry her. She replies by saying "That's silly! We're cousins." And that was that. But now it's totally sick!!!
shareI know, but well its not that sick because they never had children, and well they never really knew each other. Back then it was really common to marry a relative.
OLD ID:findingSpongebob
I would have gone for Dickon anyday.
shareI totally agree. Mary should have married Dickon, she liked him better than she did Colin in the book, anyway. I guess the filmmakers thought that it would be easier to imagine her marrying her cousin than it would be to imagine that she broke "class distinction".
shareDickon died in WWI.
share"Dickon died in WWI."
How do you know that?:s
God save us from H.D's music
For the plaque in the lake...
I think it's a beautiful movie, but that part of the marriage is really creepy... it wasn't that common, it was the 30s, 40s... no matter that Dickon was a servant Mary should've married him, in the first movie we got the hint they liked each other, well at least that was the idea I got in the swings scene...
You, maybe you'll remember me
What I gave you is yours to keep
Different countries have different standards for consanguinity. I think most countries draw the line at marrying a sibling, but here in the UK it has always been OK for cousins (even first cousins) to marry. Other countries are more strict: maybe second cousins are acceptible but first cousins aren't.
shareAlso, I think their mothers were identical twins, so they are geneticly brother and sister.
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i found the film sad i wouldnt have thought she would have married colin, she got on better wit dickon it would have been a better ending if she married him
do or do not -- their is no try
I'm pretty sure there's nothing in to book that says Dickon dies in WWI. I'll have to check on that.
shareHe died in WWI in one of the movies. The book as a serial was finished in 1911, three years before WWI, so that was added for a later film. This sequel uses that idea, however. I always found it sad, a way to "get rid of" Dickon, but it was the first version I ever saw, so kind of stayed with me.
sharebut during the movie, martha went over to the fountain with a rose, and laid it down in front of a plaque and said, Happy Birthday, Dickon.
Then i think on the plaque it said, "In the memory of Dickon (somethingsomething) who left his country for--"
and that's as far as I got. so I think Dickon died.
If I recall correctly, I believe the inscription was something like:
In memory of Dickon Sowerbyshare
who gave his life to his country
and gave life to this garden
and to the animals
and to all who knew him
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They are genetically half brother and sister. Which, granted, is gross. They would only be genetically full siblings if two sets of identical twins married--meaning their fathers would have had to be identical twins as well.
Either way, they didn't know about DNA back then, so they would have had no idea about that.
And on top of that, this is a sequel written by a different person than the one who wrote the original. I always think that if the original author didn't write it, it didn't happen. It's essentially fan fiction--like that ridiculous Gone with the Wind sequel.
aswell as they could only be half brother and sister if there mothers where truely identical and not just monozygotic twins mary kate and ashley olsen are not identical twins they were born in seperate sacks. yet they look identical and many identical twins do not look identical. identical is actually a false term the term most widely used is monozygotic twins meaning one sack. more often then not monozygotic twins also coined identical are not actually identical even when sharing an identical apearance. statistics show that most cases of monozygotic twins have them having seperate sets of DNA. being simply monozygotic twins. back then they would have simply called them identical twins infact the most likely were not identical
shareidentical twins are often not truely identical it is common now to call identical twins monozygotic twins. which means one sack. and often twins may apear to be identical but are truely not identical. in the times the movies and books are taking place they would have not had a destinction and most likely they were simply monozygotic twins. identical twins are completly identical genetically. monozygotic twins can have chilrden and there children are not tecnically brother and sister. because they often dont share exact genetics.
share//Also-to the poster who mentioned about Mary and Colins mothers being twins-I think,that was only in the recently made movie. //
Yeah i think they were just friends or cousins i'm not sure in other versions.
RBD and Timbiriche 4life...
In the book Mary and Colin's mothers were Twin sisters.
Whether or not the other various movies chose to screw the plot up, I don't know.
no they werent. In the book, Colin's mother was Mary's fathers sister.
shareYep reflectionsofashes is correct: Mary's & Colin's mothers were related only by marriage in the book. It was Mary's father and Colin's mother who were siblings.
I am only guessing, but I think that the reason the movie made Mary's & Colin's mothers twins is to underscore the idea that Mary reminded her uncle of his dead wife. In the book, the reason she reminded him of his wife was because Mary asked him "Might I have a bit of earth?" to garden, since Uncle Archibald's late wife had been so fond of gardens.
There's a strange tendency where later remakes of a movie from a book begin to draw on previous movies as well as the book itself. Then, after a while, a plot point that was introduced in an earlier movie version becomes accepted as part of the "real" plot, even though it was never in the book.
For example, with the book "A Little Princess", the Shirley Temple version had Sara Crewe's father as a WWI soldier who was wounded, and lost his memory, and the 1995 film took up this same idea. This was not in the book, which was actually published more than a decade before WWI. In the book, her father went back to India after setting Sara up at school, where he was evidently not in active military service, but a businessman. After losing his fortune speculating on a diamond mine scheme, he "died of business troubles and jungle fever combined". And he did not turn out to be alive after all, as in the movies; he was definitely dead. In the end Sara was adopted by her father's friend.
In the case of "The Secret Garden", it seems that a 1987 Hallmark movie version starring Gennie James started the idea of Colin's & Mary's mothers being sisters, as well as the idea that Dickson dies in WWI and that Mary & Colin ended up married. I understand 1st cousin marriages were respectable in that society, and that Mary would not have married Dickson due to class differences, but I don't see why they had to put that in the story. And I especially did not like the idea that Dickson died in the war.
All I can say is thank goodness no later remakes took up the ending from one version (I think it was the Margaret O'Brien version), in which Mary's Uncle decides to sell their manor house, but is allowed to tear up the deed of sale in the end.
They were also identical twins in the original 1993 movie, so Mary and Colin technically shouldn't have got married because they are genetic siblings.
Mary's mom and Colin's mom have the exact same DNA, so if they each gave half to their children, and if now you could have their blood tested, it would seem that Colin and Mary were half-siblings, because it would show that Mary's mother was also Colin's mother, and vice versa. So it's a good thing that Mary and Colin never had kids. Can you say genetic incest??
Dear me! What is that unpleasant aroma? I fear the sewer may have backed up during the night.
when the movie is taking place they are called all twins who were born in the same sack identical when in logic most of the time even with an identical apearence they are not really identical they are simply monozygotic twins. meaning one sack. yes if they were truely identical sharing the same exact genetics mary and collin would be genetically brother and sister. but most likely they were simply monozygotic twins who had an identical apearance
shareI finally saw this movie a few weeks ago and I was squemish about the cousin thing also. It is not unheard of to marry a first cousin though, it was done a great deal in Englan to maintain lands and such. I was disappointed in the story. A few years ago I read a book called Return to the Secret Garden. If you were put off by Mary and Colin I suggest you do not read the book. It is a very grown up book about what happens to Mary, Colin, and Dickon. I dare say Frances Hodges Burnett would turn over in her grave if she read it.
shareI remembered that part too, where Colin says he would marry Mary if he could. Cousins marrying always makes me a little grossed out.
Also, even if Colin and Mary's mothers were identical twins, that would not make them genetically brother and sister. That would make them cousins, hence the title of this thread.
It would make them genetically half-brother and -sister.
shareNo, they are cousins. If your mother has a sister she is your aunt. Your aunt has a child, they are your cousin.
shareyes, technically they are both cousins and siblings. if the mothers were identical twins, then they have identical DNA, making them genetically the same person. so half of mary and colin's genetic makeup is the same, making them siblings.
sharesorry but you're incorrect. even children with identical parents (i.e. a sister marries a guy and her twin sister marries the guys twin brother) the children still have their own personal genetic makeup. In fact it is very very rare that two people even within the same family should have the exact same genetic makeups as the other. Even twins have violently different distinctions such as personality and humor, sometimes one twin developes an illness that the other twin is perfectly safe from. So No. Mary and Colin are not siblings in any shape or form, they are cousins.
shareAside from the fact that emotionally Mary should have been with Dickon. It saddens me to hear that some of you are arguing about a scientifically PROVEN FACT regarding genetics.
If there are IDENTICAL twins, their DNA is the SAME, this is a scientific fact. Look it up before you argue with me.
Genetically Mary and Dickon (hehe oops I meant Colin) would be half-siblings as well as cousins.
In the original Secret Garden they had identical twin mothers. I have not seen this "second" version and don't plan to.
For those of you who like to argue about subjects you know nothing about here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/aprilholladay/2006-11-20-twins-dice_x.htm
Also you can just google it.
Thanks,
Misty
To quote Misty:
"For those of you who like to argue about subjects you know nothing about here you go"
Rather than send you to a reference source, I'll take it from the book
(chapter 2, mid-way):
"Captain Lennox and his wife died of cholera," Mr. Caraven had said in his short, cold way. "Captain Lennox was my wife's brother, and I am their daughter's guardian."
So Colin's dead mother was the sister of Mary's dead father. No twin sisters in the book, so it doesn't matter if they had the scientific knowledge to determine if they were identical or fraternal.
I know the movie changed a number of things, i.e. everyone dies in an earthquake rather than the slower cholera outbreak, but I'll have to watch it again to see if they changed the way in which Mary and Colin were first cousins.
And yes, as noted, it was quite common in certain classes to marry ones cousin. Just because it creeps us out now doesn't mean it was thought odd in other times and cultures.
"If I'm going to wear a dress, I want something with some slink." - Zoe, Firefly
no you are incorrect monozygotic twins which is the term used for identical twins now means one sack. but in rare cases when monozygotic twins are truely identical twins. they share the same exact genetic makeup and are completly identical genetically. making it impossible to tell the difference on a genetic level. when they have children there children share the same amount of recessive genes as siblings ie brother and brothers sisters and sisters brother and sisters. making what most would call cousins medically brother and sisters. why dont you do your research
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who *beep* cares if they are too seperate people truely identical twins share the same exact DNA making them genetally the same person. in genetics this makes any child that either have indistinguishable from siblings. ie genetically identical twins children are siblings
sharethat is just a semantics. when 2 identical twins have children there chidlren are genetically brother and sister. the term for cousins is simply a status of society. when 2 identical twins marry a set of identical twins there children are genetically full siblings.
shareI'm pretty sure at the end of the first movie, they had shown her grown up and with Dickon...maybe I'm wrong...I thouht she ended up with him.
shareIn the end of the hallmark TV movie in 1987 it showed Mary and Collins as grown up and he asks her to marry him in the garden. In that version they were not related, Mary's father and Mister Archibald were good friends. Dickon died in the war in that version also.
share In the original book, Mary and Colin are first cousins (their mothers were sisters). Nothing hints at a romantic rleationship between them; the story ends with them still as children.
In the 1993 movie, their mothers were identical twins, making Colin and Mary the genetic equivalent not just of cousins, but half-siblings. Again, it ends with them still children, no hint of a romantic relationship.
As far as I know, it's the 1987 Hallmark version that introduces the idea of a romance between Colin and Mary. In this version, they aren't cousins; and there's pair of bookend scenes at the start end end of the movie set some years later, ending with Colin proposing to Mary, and Mary giving an affirmative response.
I think this movie is supposed to follow the Hallmark version. This is also consistent in that it is the Hallmark version which establishes Dickon as having died in a war.
you know in other countries, even today, people still marry their cousins. one example would be japan. i am not saying it is right but it does happen, they even have children.
shareRoyalty have been marrying their cousins for years...
I am the ray of darkness in your otherwise sunny day...
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