who are you to judge others? - All-American Girl: The Mary Kay Letourneau Story (2000) Discussion

[–] stone1020 20 years ago

I agree with you 100%.

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[–] 20 years ago

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I've seen the movie a few times and the obvious repeats itself, they were in love and they should be together. Now one thing people overlook a lot and its because they're just really stupid or not at all perceptive, maybe both. The post i'm replying too is a perfect example.

"Would it be okay if he was four years old?"

Well genius, a 4 year old can't get a hard on. The other thing is 13 is the start of teens, the transition to adulthood, ironic because about 500 years ago men were men at 12. Married anywere around 16. The main thing is yes 13 is young, but again its not up to people to judge if its right or wrong. The movie outlines the many ways the general law screwed them up because they were a very unlikely couple, but like life shows every day, the unlikely is actually becoming fairly common.

The last thing i'd like to bring up about the previous post. You know that era were anyone who was accused of being a witch was burnt to death with just about no trial? The last post is a decendant of those people, a sheep who listen to the general image of whats right and wrong, the world will always have people who shouldn't exist, the point is no matter how they change law or what the general mass think, it doesn't make it right.

Now this is my opinion on it, but for the rest, form your own opinion, so far i haven't seen a valid argument against why it was so wrong.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] nieder27 19 years ago

So if you were a parent, and your 13 year old son got his 35 year old teacher pregnant, you would be fine with this? Or how about if your 13 year old daughter got pregnant by her 35 year old teacher? I bet you would sing a different tune then. The reason it is wrong is because a teacher is supposed to be trustworthy. There is nothing wrong with forming a bond with a child in need. But Mary Kay crossed the line. It doesn't matter if they both consented. It is wrong because she cheated on her husband (in their house, while he was sleeping upstairs.) It is wrong because as a teacher you should never have a romantic relationship with a student, no matter what the age is. Especially not with a child. It is wrong because it is against the law. And just because Villi can get an erection does not mean that he should be having sex with his 35 year old teacher.

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[–] atogcheese 15 years ago

I'd say the people who have sex with sheep are more morally defensible than people who have sex with thirteen year old boys.

Men can actually get erections quite early in life, but press your point. Are you suggesting that as soon as a little boy is biologically capable of being aroused, it's acceptable to teach him how to make the nice lady happy with his special part?

To quote holmes "You see but you do not observe."

You say that love justifies it.

Tell that to the protagonist of "Lolita".

Do you think that it's okay for an adult man and a 13 year old girl to have sex if they are in love?
Present your counterarguments. The burden of proof is on you to argue that this woman did no moral wrong.

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[–] whitespirit26 13 years ago

"Well genius, a 4 year old can't get a hard on"

Ohh, so if a kid can get a hard-on it's OKAY then. You're a dumbass. And you're wrong: infants actually can get them, all by themselves. Does that make it okay then, hon?

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[–] nieder27 19 years ago

Couldn't have said it better myself Doug. Anyone who would justify this situation needs to reexamine their priorities.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] angelicphyre 19 years ago

Look I don't personally think what happened was right, but I am appalled at what you just said. Grow up and figure it out that just because someone thinks differently than you do doesn't mean that they need to "reexamine their priorities." I think what happened was wrong, I can't believe she did it. It's scary to think that children can go to school, one of the few places that SHOULD be considered safe, and have something like that happen. But I also see that he chose to do it too, so, whether you like it or not, he deserves some blame here too. Granted, he was 13 years old, but it wasn't like he was telling her to stop either. I am horrified by what Mary Kay Letourneau did, but I'm also horrified at people like you who decide that others have no right to have their own beliefs about situations like this. I at least see both sides, whether or not I support them both. You should be ashamed of yourself for being so closed minded like that.

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[–] atogcheese 15 years ago

...-.-

Fail.

Yeah, because he wasn't telling her to stop, he's to blame. I bet the little tramp was just asking for it, flaunting his package that way. I mean, to say that he's NOT responsible, it's almost like implying he wasn't a legal adult and at the age of consent. How close-minded. [/withering sarcasm]

13 year olds are >>minors<<. This means that, under the law, they are not considered responsible for certain major decisions. They are still vulnerable, underdeveloped, and incapable of fully appreciating certain consequences.

13 year olds can't vote, they can't drive, and they cannot legally have sex. Your argument is a clear case of blaming the victim.

Of course people have the right to their own beliefs. They have the right to voice their opinions on those beliefs, however controversial, because of free speech. By the same token, other people have the right to call them horrible people, or say they are blithering idiots, because they think poorly of their beliefs. That's how freedom of speech works. You have the right to say what you want, other people have the right to say what they want, even if, and especially if, they choose to say you're a total varbleneck for what you sya.

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[–] lanakael 19 years ago

First of all, I agree with the person who stated that even a 4-year-old can get an erection. It's been proven that even male babies can have erections in the womb. The ability to have an erection does not make a boy a man.

Secondly, a 13-year-old boy is NOT mentally or emotionally ready to make these kinds of adult situations. No matter how "mature you are for your age", or what sort of situations you've been through, the choices you make at 10 are not the choices you'd make at 13, or at 17, or at 21, or later in life. This boy's childhood was stolen from him, pure and simple.

This woman, a 35-year-old woman, was entrusted with the well-being of minor CHILDREN. As a teacher, and a mother, she was supposed to place herself on a higher standard. She proved herself to be an adulteress, a child molester, and an unfit mother. For her to compound the mistake by getting pregnant by the same boy a second time elevates what she did beyond the sinful, the insane, or the obscene.

I trust that those actually having the audacity to approve of this woman's behavior are not, themselves, parents. I have a young son, and I think I can safely say that if ANYONE did this to my son, there'd be no safe place s/he could hide from me. It doesn't matter that the boy consented, a responsible adult SHOULD KNOW that it is wrong to abuse the trust and emotions of a child this way.

I truly, truly hope that none of you who support this vile woman EVER has to deal with a situation like this if/when you're responsible for the care and well-being of your own children. Or anyone else's, for that matter.

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[–] BBH02 19 years ago

I'm a little shocked and appalled at these responses. I'm not in any way condoning her behavior, because Villi was a child, but at the same time you have to put yourself in her shoes. There must have been something terribly wrong mentally first of all and THAT is where the focus of rehabilitation should've been. Not only prison, but mental help. To be attracted to a child at 34 is, yes, weird, but we don't know what was going on inside her head.

And in response to the "two consenting adults" comment; a marriage is the only appropriate place for sex anyway, so this is really irrelevant. :)

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[–] anthonypperez 19 years ago

Last night I saw this movie for the first time. I, of course, like many other people across the world had drawn my own conclusions of this odd, unlikely pair. I could not understand why a respected, intelligent woman with a wonderful family would risk everything just to have a sexual affair with a young boy. To the outside word this seemed like a dispicable, perverted act and Mary Kate should clearly be punished for commiting such a disgusting crime. She took this child's innocence and took advantage of it by showing affection, compassion and sypmathy, thus causing Vili to develop a strong, loving bond with her. My thoughts originally were that she intentionally lead him on because she had a secret desire to "molest" little boys.

But, this film showed a different side of the story. As far as we know Mary never had preyed upon young boys in the past. She has male childeren of her own that so dearly love her. I don't believe Mary has attempted or even considered "acting on her secret desire to molest boys" with those kids. She definently loves her kids, enough to try and explain the situation to them. This also diplays her love for Vili. A child molester does not attempt to explain these feelings to their own children.

Vili obviously has a loving mother of his own, but his family was broken. He lived in poverty and seeked love and understading from a person he trusted, his teacher. Initially, Mary and Vili's relationship was based on mentoring, guidance and friendship. Mary even developed a relationship with Vili's mother. Trust was formed. I don't believe Mary would have went to such measures. She was a woman who loved her family, but struggled with her marriage. I belive she was vulnerable at this point and seeked love and affection of her own.

Her mistake was allowing herself to open up to a young child. But through her eyes she saw a young adult man who gave her love, respect and attention. Who does not want that? We are all in relationships for selfish reasons and Mary Kate wanted to be loved. Unfortunetly, her heart and feelings overpowered her mind. She did not see things clearly as a responsible adult should. Her human nature side took over and forced her to make many immoral and illegal decisions. She knew it was wrong the entire time, but it soon became too late.

After viewing this movie, I don't believe that Mary Kate is a child-preying monster. This an incident that has attracted worldwide attention because of it's unusual circumstances. This kind of stuff probably happens more then we think. Mary and Vili's just happened to get caught in the spotlight.

Mary served her time. I'm sure she had planty of time to think about all the wrong decisions she made. But, now she can legally continue a relationship with Vili if she so desires. What other child molesters come out of prison after 7 years and continue a mutually genuine, loving and caring realtionship with their "victims"?

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[–] charonstyxriver 19 years ago

I agree... this does not seem to be a case of 'child molestation'. If the story in the movie is portrayed accurately, Villi was not innocent and not a virgin either. Some kids mature earlier than others. It wasn't just love though, it was lust too, especially on his part. Just sign me, waiting for the 'flack' now.

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[–] elinbane 19 years ago

The first poster began this thread by asking, "Who are you to judge others?"
Then he said there would be something wrong if a MAN raped a girl. Well, I agree that there's something wrong with a man raping a girl - but saying so
is judging others, just as much as saying that a woman raping a boy is. Your problem then, poster #1, is not that people are judging. It is that they aren't
making the same judgements you are.

Now, Anthony made a comment about Letourneau not ever thinking about molesting her own children. I wish that were true. It is not. She, in act, testified about her sexual attraction to her own children during her trial.

Some of you have said that watching this movie made you change your mind about Letourneau. You've become more sympathetic. I would caution you against forming
your opinions based on movies. Movies not only contain fiction, but they contain fiction that is designed to make you think and feel in certain ways.
The makers WILL stretch the truth to get you to think the way they want you to.

Make SURE you look at the facts of the case, not just a film.

Also, almost all pedophiles say they "love" the children they are molesting.
In fact, the greek suffix "–phile" means, roughly, "lover" and "pedo" means "child." Love is not an excuse and love does not justify every action.
Or we'd have to let jealous wives murder cheating husbands and vice versa.

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[–] KAnnD86 18 years ago

She, in act, testified about her sexual attraction to her own children during her trial.

Did she really say that? There was no indication of that in the movie. And that seems like a pretty big aspect of what was going through her head to leave out.

I basically agree with what anthonypperez says. At the time, it was very wrong for a teacher to sleep with her student, for a grown woman to sleep with a child, but since they're together now, that proves that they really were in love. They should have waited because they technically committed a crime, but she served her sentence and now they've built a life together. How often does that happen? This case is very different from most.

Tomorrow's just your future yesterday!

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[–] Stickman38 18 years ago

How often does that happen? This case is very different from most.

Actually its happened a lot. A good example is when Elvis Presley met Priscilla. She was only 14 years old (he was like in his 20s) and she moved in with him when she was 15. They ended up getting married. There are many cases like this involving celebrities and just regular people too.

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[–] KAnnD86 18 years ago

From what I heard about Elvis and Priscilla, he didn't even want to sleep with her until they were married or something like that. Elvis wasn't a pedophile. I was just reiterating anthonypperez' point about most victims of pedophiles not going on to marry their attackers (unless they were brainwashed or something). This case was obviously not the norm.

Tomorrow's just your future yesterday!

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[–] Stickman38 18 years ago

Hmmmmm... from my understanding of the whole situation between Elvis and Priscilla was they had a relationship before they were married. Now... whether or not they engaged in any type of sexual activity is hard to answer. I don`t think I would say Elvis was a pedophile either because a pedophile is someone thats attracted to a person that hasn`t started puberty and we all know a 14 or 15 year old has gone through puberty. I might be willing to say Elvis was attracted to young girls but he kept it under wraps. It would be extremely difficult for someone like Elvis to stay away from young girls because they just threw themselves at him all the time.

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[–] whitespirit26 13 years ago

"that proves that they really were in love"

No hon, it proves they didn't learn a thing. She was a grown WOMAN, he was a horny kid who dated while his beloved paragon was in prison; please.

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[–] KAnnD86 13 years ago

Well, I did write that post 5 years ago. But I was talking about how they got married (or how they stayed together - did they ever get married?). It wasn't some fling.

Tomorrow's just your future yesterday!

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[–] whitespirit26 10 years ago

No, it's a continuing sick thing.

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[–] Tracey73 11 years ago

Mary served her time. I'm sure she had planty of time to think about all the wrong decisions she made. But, now she can legally continue a relationship with Vili if she so desires. What other child molesters come out of prison after 7 years and continue a mutually genuine, loving and caring realtionship with their "victims"?

I'm wondering if you would say the same thing if Mary were a 30-something year old man who impregnated his 13 year old female student ...

I'm reaching for the life within me. How can one man stop his ending. ~ Blue October

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[–] toking65000 12 years ago

*Again I know this is late but I'm just now watching the movie.

But I wanted to comment on you saying, we dont know what was going on inside her mentally, but if it were a 34 year old male teacher doing this with his 13 year old female student you'd prolly call him an old pervert.

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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[–] mrtron81 19 years ago

I wouldn't have as much against what Mary Kay did if she had just kept their relationship about sex and not about love. At 13 I would have jumped at the chance to have sex with one of my pretty teachers, but I wouldn't have wanted a romantic relationship with her. They have plans for getting married now, and I think at some point in their marriage he's going to resent her for making him fall in love with her. I'd be willing to bet he'll leave her for a woman his own age within 15 years. Not many guys want to be 29 and married to a 52 year-old woman.

I think he'll also resent her for making him a father at the age of 13. As the adult, she should have been responsible enough to have used protection.

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[–] elinbane 19 years ago

Just because someone would love to have sex doesn't mean it won't hurt them.
A thirteen year old boy might also jump at the chance to beat his meaner teachers to a pulp. Desire does not make a thing right, does not make a thing safe and does not make you able to handle things.

This boy was as willing to fall in love with his teacher as he was to have sex
with her. If you don't say she made him have sex, you cannot say she made him fall in love.

Meanwhile, few women want to be married to men who just use women for sex.
As for resenting her for making him a father - he should resent it and he
has every reason to. As the adult, she should have been responsible enough
not to have sex with her student. Complaining about a pedophile not using
protection is like complaining about Hitler not giving his victims asprin.

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[–] whatkim 19 years ago

He is 24 if he doesn't want to get married he won't. She didn't make him fall in love you can't make someone fall in love.

I’m not saying what she did was right it wasn't and It would have been a bigger deal if it was a 30 something man and a 12/13 year old girl.

Anyway she has severed her time and we shouldn't he throwing stone at her.

“ It’s a wild animal, and so am I”

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[–] msgthrpstfdn2006 17 years ago

I have never seen the movie, but can give give my opinion because I'm in a similar situation.

I am a 40 something year old woman and am in love with a 17 year old guy. Did I ever expect this to happen, hell no! This is what some people don't understand. I've never went through my life praying on young boys. I didn't plan this, it just happened. The sad part is that his mother is or was my best friend. Of course she is totally against this, and I can see her side, but for some reason I can't stop my feelings for him, I have fought how I feel for him, saying to myself it's just infactuation, but I know what I feel in my heart. I tried not talking to him for 2 weeks and it totally tore me apart inside. Like Mary said in one of her interviews, "I don't see him as a boy, I see him as a man." I describe him as an old soul. We are not allow to contact each other until he turns 18, which is November of 2007, which scares me in a way. I know that this it is hard for her to understand I just hope she comes to terms with it when he is 18, and accepts my love and appreciation for him. Although we have never had sexual intercourse, we have kissed when he was 2 weeks from turning 17. The age of consent in my state is 16 thank god, because I'm sure she would have put me in jail. I don't know if this will last forever, because he may want to go out and find a younger woman at some point in his life, but all I know is that I can't wait to share whatever life I can with him. Although Vili was 13, of course it makes it a lot harder for people to understand. It's amazing the way they look at each other, it's total love and she is like a little kid when he touches her. I'm sorry but I'm a romantic and I think what they share right now compares to a Romeo & Juliet story. I think people need to be open-minded with situations like this. I personally can't wait to start my life with my young boy-friend and I can only hope that it will last until I take my last breath.

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[–] lferrigon-1 18 years ago

I agree Ruiz415...Vili did go after her wanting her even bragging to his friends that he was going to have her.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] lferrigon-1 18 years ago

If your question is directed at me, yes, it would be wrong for a full grown man to have sex with an underaged girl no doubt about it. I am not condoning what happened I am just not condemning it. She did not seek him out, he wanted her and went for it.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] lferrigon-1 18 years ago

I am sorry! I was not trying to start a fight.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] lferrigon-1 18 years ago

Thanks for understanding.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] lilnessaslove 18 years ago

A 35 year old man is hardly capable of making good decisions (no offense), can you imagine what is going on with a 13 year old? If you've followed this story, this woman has been nothing but another mother to him from day one. Even now, it seems like she is in control of everything. For those who actually justify this, I can only laugh. I can only imagine it now: "Sweety can you write me a note for gym class?"
"close your eyes. Show me your face. I'm gonna piss on it" -Dave Chapelle

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[–] dagould1984 17 years ago

What really disgusts me about the whole "teacher raping her students" thing...is that people DEFEND the *beep* teacher. The teacher gets picket lines, TV time, articles, and idiots on the web who will defend her to the end (if she's attractive that is, ugly female rapists get treated like the rapists they are). Males who do this often defend it by saying it's love...but that certainly doesn't change what sentence any and that's how it should be for MKL and all others like her.

The Grand Inquisitor: IGNORE ME!!!!!!

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[–] ladybo454 17 years ago

I think any person, man or woman, who has sex with a child (meaning under 18) is a pervert who deserves jail time and deep psychiatric evaluation. I'm appalled when I hear people (mostly men) say, "that's every boys fantasy" how disgusting. What if your son, nephew, or younger brother was 12 years old and having sex with some lady twice his age. Ugh, that just makes me sick thinking about it. I don't see how people can find humor in Mary's disgusting behavior. Bipolar my ass.

It Stays The Same

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[–] 17 years ago

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