Am I missing something?


Why did Penny get played by the woman? Is it because he negotiated daily comissions.

Apparently everyone else was too stupid to negotiate daily comissions, and all got monthlies (hence why they were all angry at the end when ed harris cleared out the office).

Why not just NOT hire Penny, and get some other muppet, then there is no need to play him?

Doesn't make sense.

Or is the film trying to say that ed harris + woman played Penny just because "they could" ?

PS: what's up with having a guy named "Penny" as main lead.

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Hey, you're one up on me... I couldn't figure out why they singled Penny out and left the others alone.

I also couldn't figure out what the crippled character had to do with anything, given that there was no explanation what the relationship was.

Details like this ruin the story but I've been the Green Card route. There's no way the girlie could have wiped out his account without Joint Account signatures.

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Yeah the cripple sub-plot seemed totally pointless.

Perhaps its trying to illustrate that Penny's heart really is in the right place.. so we think of him as a human being rather than a cold hearted con man that steals peoples entire life savings through telemarketing scams.

However, the bit where he has second thoughts about selling to that old lady easily does the job to illustrate he has a human side, so the cripple sub-plot seemed like a total waste of time.

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It's physically handicapped, not crippled.

And I think Grand Wizard is right about showing that Penny isn't all bad. Even though he is ripping people off at work, he is taking care of his best friend. And Rory Cochrane was great in that movie.

I just need some love so turn out the lights and I'll be left in the dark again.

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All of you guys must be very young. None of you seems to have understood the subtleties of this rather good movie.

So to answer your questions:

1- Penny got played simply because in fell in love with her. They got married and that gave her access to his bank account

2- People are not stupid. They were all taken on a trip by plane to the gold mining plan. If somebody were to pay for a plane trip up front during the job interview, wouldn't you think his bussiness is serious?

3- Why hired Penny despite demands of special treatment ? Well Kelly needs many seller and he already spent a plane trip for him. Finding someone else would mean delays and expenses. But more importantly, seeing Penny bail out might prompt other sellers to become suspicious. Kelly wisely judged that it is better to pay Penny than to lose him. Keller later finds a way to take back the may by making Penny fall in love with her girlfriend Caitlin.

4- You all seem to think the Penny and the other sellers knew all along that everything was a scam. They didn't. Penny was suspecting something at the beginning but he certainly wasn't sure wheter the sellers or the investors or both or none would get scammed.

5- "Or is the film trying to say that ed harris + woman played Penny just because "they could" ?" Like I said, all of this was set up from the beginning to get back Penny's money. There is nothing that doesn't make senses.

6- "Hey, you're one up on me... I couldn't figure out why they singled Penny out and left the others alone." Penny has a lot of experience. He wasn't impressed by that litlle trip in south-america and still considered the whole thing as a scam. Others were charmed. This is why he is the only one to receive special treatment.

7- "There's no way the girlie could have wiped out his account without Joint Account signatures.". You may be right. (How do you know it wasn't a joint account?) But that's a technical detail. It ruins nothing.

8- "I also couldn't figure out what the crippled character had to do with anything, given that there was no explanation what the relationship was." The cripple character like you say is one of the investors. No need to say, she will never see her money again. Well in fact, yes, there is a need to say since none of you guys seems capable to comprehend the simplest plot.

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I think the idea of the having the crippled best friend was a great aspect of the film. From my perspective the two friends needed each other. From the conversations with the elderly woman investor, Penny (Vaughn) reveals his own difficulty with trusting anyone in life. Penny apparently has no family, and we find out that he lost his mother to breast cancer when he was young (13 years old). In the end, the only person by Penny's side is his best friend. And the relationship is clearly a two-way street. Joel (Cochrane), Penny's best friend, has been left somewhat physically disabled (presumably after an accident). He obviously lacks support in his life and it appears that Penny is the only person who cares enough or is capable of providing the necessary support.

There are three major scenes near the end of the movie between the two friends, which I find particuarly moving.

*Warning Spoilers*

1 - Caitlin (Ormond) & Penny are in a hotel bed together when Penny hears his name being called. He responds to the distressed called to find his best friend lying helplessly on the hotel steps. Seeing his friend emotionally/physically beaten and vulnerable, Penny breaks down and cries. The is the first time in the movie where we see Penny emotionally vulnerable and I think Vaughn did a tremendous job in this scene. He didn't over play it.

2 - The second scene takes place shortly after, when Penny is cleaning his best friend in the bath. Penny is looking after his friend in a way that only a mother would. Joel is more of an adolescent than an adult, and showing him being cleaned was a great symbol for his character. The actors have great chemistry in this scene as well.

3 - The third scene is the final scene of the movie. And I must say that this movie had a great thought-provoking ending. Penny is in his apartment with Joel after reading what appears to be a letter from Caitlin. Joel asks Penny if he is still there. Penny replies "yeah, I'm still here." Penny then leaves the building and walks alone down the street. As we watch Penny gradually recede from view, a group of children begin to play beside an ice cream truck. There is no music in this scene, just the sounds of the children playing. The audience is left thinking... did Penny leave Joel behind? If so, why and where is he going? Or maybe Penny is not leaving. We as the audience assume that Penny is upset over being betrayed. But we don't really know. Penny shows very little emotion in this last scene as he reads the letter and as he leaves the apartment. We can only hang on his words, "Yeah, I'm still here."

I thought Vince Vaughn provided a great performance in this film. Every performance I see of his makes me appreciate him even more. It's interesting to see him taking primarily comedic roles now. I thought he was hysterical in Old School. But it's also dissapointing not to seem take more serious roles like he did earlier in his career. I hope he returns to some challenging serious roles some time soon.

The only compaint I have for this film is that it is very similar to an excellent film called 'Bolier Room' starring Giovanni Ribisi. But it is interesting that both films came out in the same year, 2000. However, ‘Prime Gig’ wrapped up its filming in January of 2000, and ‘Boiler Room’ was released February 20, 2000. So obviously ‘Boiler Room’ was the predecessor.

Nevertheless, I thought the ending was memorable and the more I think about it the more I like it.

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I think they chose penny and zeke becouse they were the two who maked the most money! simple. She couldent sleep around with everyone, so they chose the two who maked the most money. but what was the letter in the ending? was it from her? whas he on the way to her maybe in the final scene?
the movie could have been done better, many strange things!

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I just saw it and thought it was ok. What didn't make sense was that Kelly Grant had just come out of jail. If the guy's been in jail for fraud, how credible can his latest venture be?? Penny had his doubts about the whole thing but he should have realized grant was not running a legit business. In the end Grant 1-upped him and he learned a hard and expensive lesson.

The very last scene with the kids, I think was to show the irony of the innocence of childhood and how cruel adult life can be. his friend/roomate was 29, but refused to "grow up"- I think another attempt to show this comparison. He was added to have 2 seperate story lines the viewer can focus on and of course to show Penny was a man of good nature.

In all it was good. The chic played him like a violin from the start

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The last scene in the movie... was a letter from the slut who had worked out in her head that there were two things going on: one, Penny had taken a lot of her partner's money (as 17% cash payment) so it was necessary to get that back, and two, she kinda/sorta had feelings for Penny, not love necessarily, but the kind of feelings that a woman has for a man who is good in bed (yeah, women are more like men than not, in the sex department)... so in HER mind if she paid Penny the 5 grand she'd promised for the greencard thing, then they were 'even steven'. That was what the letter about "here's your five grand that I promised if you married me" and that was how much money was in the letter... 5 grand. It's quite amazing how people can con themselves into believing they are living a righteous life... and the writer really grasped the essense of that con job.

Why did Penny walk away and what did he mean by "I'm still here"... I'm still here simply meant something like: "I'm still here being your friend and living a day to day scrable to survive" ... he walked down the street because he had to assess what the H*LL he was doing with his life and besides he left his car parked somewhere downtown while he walked around looking for his friend, who all that time was still back in Penny's apartment.

So Penny didn't even trust his friend to be anything but a loser... but his friend, due to Penny's gentle caring and loving ways towards him, was trying (once more) to get back onto the wheel of life. Penny had to think about that, too.

All along, Penny, like the other salespeople, KNEW there wasn't any gold. People who are smart enough to be good at those high-end ripoff phone sales jobs are not stupid. None of the sales staff believed in the pot of gold at the end of rainbow... no one is that stupid. Not even the people who turned over their life savings believed there was a pot of gold. I felt sorry for the customer who had alheimer's but life is not fair, it's just life... a series of trips to the garbage can and then death. People who think they can get something for nothing by writing a check are lazy, unwilling to do the work it takes to really succeed in anything... financial or otherwise.


Life is a journey not a destination. Fear nothing.

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Quote from prob2prob: 8- "I also couldn't figure out what the crippled character had to do with anything, given that there was no explanation what the relationship was." The cripple character like you say is one of the investors. No need to say, she will never see her money again. Well in fact, yes, there is a need to say since none of you guys seems capable to comprehend the simplest plot.

I believe the Crippled Character they were talking about was Rory Cochrane's character, not the old lady. There was no real reason having him in this movie other than showing that he, Penny, had a human side.

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No one but Penny got paid, the others would get it at the end of the month, it didn't last a month, so they were waiting, and a plan was setup in the beginning to get the money going to Penny, the girlfriend. His disabled friend, well if you had paid attention to the story he told her about a job offered by an old friend that required him to relocate, well obviously he passed to remain in the area to take care of the guy. So, if you take into account that he was remaining in the area to care for the drug addicted disabled friend, the ending is clear to me, after reading the letter, he left the guy some cash and headed out to contact the long lost job offer. Now she offered to tell him anything, all he needed to do was ask, I wonder if she was caught up in this deal due to Ed Harris and wanted to tell him. After it's all done, would she have finished with Ed and be waiting for Vince where the job offer was, could that have been in that note, something was in there to motivate the disabled guy who was happy to do nothing and live off of his friend to clean up that apartment. Am I the only one to have noticed this, or are there others that have figured it out, I mean keep in mind that the disabled guy was a bum, he did a complete 180 into Suzi home maker!

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Thanks so much for the PC lecture on Newspeak, but "crippled" works just fine for me. Get over it.

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They gave Penny the special treatment because he was the best seller.

I just watched it on HDNet Movies, and during the introduction, they said the handi-capped character was Penny's brother. This makes sense, but either way it shows he has a real heart. Also the fact that he doesn't just spend all the money as he gets it seems to imply that he is preparing to support his "brother" for the future.

Caitlin (Ormond) just forged the joint signature, because they showed her forging Ed Harris's character's signature eariler in the movie on the sell slips. I am still not sure if maybe the she was being forced by Kelly Grant to take Penny's money.

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I just watched it on HDNet Movies, and during the introduction, they said the handi-capped character was Penny's brother. This makes sense, but either way it shows he has a real heart. Also the fact that he doesn't just spend all the money as he gets it seems to imply that he is preparing to support his "brother" for the future.


I never picked up on the fact that Joel was Penny's brother! Makes sense, though it also makes sense that they are just great buddies who care about each other as well. I will definitely have to check out the movie again (haven't seen it in ages) and see if it jumps out at me.

"The worst vice...is advice"

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I personally feel cheated out of an ending to this film. I figured through the film it was going to be setup that he was scammed. Near the end she leans over to him and tells him that she loves him....to me, she already has him sunk and robbed...she has no real reason to say that to him unless she at that point truely meant it, leading me to believe she fell for him and will help him get out of the hole hes in with Ed Harris, perhaps give him his bank account back...and thats what I waited for but was abruptly met with the end credits. The movie ended without a real conclusion ( i know all movies dont need them, but this one did imo)

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I disagree, I'm glad this movie didn't have the traditional happy ending (where she came back to him all smiles with a big bag of cash). When you're in a state of utter shock its just like that (where he remembers the things everyone's said and pieces it all together). Then on getting home he drops off the last coupla bucks he has and, having nothing better to do, restlessly ambles down the sidewalk...still in a state of shock and disbelief...I think the final scenes were very true-to-life and well done, I also like what the one post said about the innocence of childhood vs the cruelty of adulthood...

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Yes, it would have been nice if this film had fewer loose ends, but the story is really about con men being conned by other con men with the moral of the story being that 'what goes around, comes around' or as God's word, the Bible said two thousand years ago: "Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap." (Galatians 6, verse 7.) And my last cliche shall be 'If one lies down with dogs, he is liable to get up with fleas!' "Penny" was used to lying down with dogs since that is what his profession is made up of, so he deserves what he got. The sequence with the old woman was there to show that he had no delusions that what he was doing was wrong and that all his "skilled" lies were only that.

The character of Joel, his "old friend, I've known him since he was 12 years old" (as identified at time point 4.37 of Scene 2 on the DVD), was poorly developed, and as others have pointed out, mostly an attempt to garner sympathy for "Penney", since it is well known that when a character has no redeming qualities, he is not only shallowly written, but seemingly inhuman and thus unsympathetic to the viewer. There was here also the red herring of possibly revealing them as homosexual lovers, though that was dispelled with his scenes with Ormand's character later in the film. "Joel" also reminded us that there was a lower rung on the ladder of life than that "Penney" was on, and thus "Penney's" attempts to make a living were cast in a better light.

This flick is all about the moral ambiguities of life, and how some kid themselves as to just who and what they are, and that there are always bigger 'fish' that eat the 'little fish.' Ormand's character was used to show how adroitly one can use sex to gull and con someone who is an opportunist more interested in casual sex than true, unselfish love. Having her leave a pathetic 'Dear John' note to "Penney" was another attempt to deepen the shallow script by making her appear a 'normal, loving' woman after all. Of course, the viewers were never deluded since they knew that she had been coniving with Ed Harris' character from the beginning. Harris' character was an admitted criminal, and criminals never take the risk of hiring honest people.

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I gotta agree with whomever said they felt cheated. So did I. I spent two hours just waiting for this movie to actually "take off." It never did. I kept wondering when the actual movie was going to begin cause it seemed to me like the whole movie was just a preamble to something. I thought it was quite obvious Penny was going to get scammed, as that was the only possibility of this movie going anywhere. Otherwise, it's just a movie where he and others are selling these fake packages/plots with a little romance here and his disabled friend there. Even though I was sure he was going to get scammed, I really thought there would be more action/intrigue/SOMETHING about how it was done.

Strange movie - not necessarily bad, but, in my opinion, just kind of "there". Why make it? I don't have to have a movie filled with action, adventure, etc. etc. but if it is going to be made, at least take it somewhere. To me, this movie never went anywhere...

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I interpreted that all of the other callers in the boiler room were actors who got to split the cash Penny earned. The whole thing was a ruse to get Penny to earn some money then steal it. I think the woman played by Ormand had second thoughts when she saw Penny take care of his friend in the bathtub. But she was manipulated by the Ed Harris character to follow through with the scam.

This basic story has been done as a Law and Order episode. I don't remember which flavor of Law and Order it was.

Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not.

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I feel the ending was totally botched. Totally.

If not for the bedroom seen ---- where she woke him to say "I love you" --- obviously genuine or she would have just left him sleeping and went straight to the bank --- then the ending would be a perfect con-job sting ending and that's that. Fine.

But given that bedroom scene, we want to know since she really loved him, why she did it anyway. If the movie anyway ended with no further ado, still fairly OK --- we and Penny himself are left with questions... so it goes. I wouldn't have liked that but still not unthinkable an ending.

BUT, she left him a letter!!! Given the bedroom scene and the fact that we therefore know that she really loved him, what sense is there that Penny knows what's in the letter and the writers don't tell us????!!!!! It's absurd.

She obviously told him or hinted what she really was up to. Think about it: she obviously started with "I meant what I said this morning, I really do love you" then she would have said "BUT ............." giving at least a hint as to what was going on ----

---was she coerced by Kelly, and will she try to come back
---was she unwilling to leave Kelly because of the money

If you think it through it is obvious that the writers didn't even realize that having Penny read the letter and not sharing it with us makes the whole ending irrelevant and indecipherable. Penny knows so much more than we do that all the speculations about his subtle behavious at the end are shots in the dark. The writers made an unforgiveable error here -- without the bedroom scene it would have been fine. But given that "'I love you' bedroom scene" the writers goofed and failed to realize that the letter he reads would not be a simple "Dear John" letter, and had to have told him important information about what we all want to know. They didn't realize this implication, and he shows no reaction' and worse - we are left with the feeling that the character was given the answers we have been waiting for, and we don't get a hint
what they are.

A frustrating thoughtless error.

B Zion

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As for the ending, i interpreted it a totally different way:

Rory Cochrane is his friend not brother, who he takes care of. He feels that this guy is basically helpless, so he watches over him. However, it is not generally appreciated. When Penny leaves him, he gets pissed and disappears and then shows resentment towards him when Penny goes out of his way to find him and bring him home. By the end, Penny comes home after just gotten royally scammed; and sees that Rory Cochrane is has cleaned the house and cooked. So here is Penny, the big sucker, finding out his best friend is by no means helpless. He can look after himself (to an extent) and basically used Penny all these years because Penny was a nice guy and felt responsible for him. Thats why he left. His girl played him, and now he realizes his friend plkayed him for years

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I don't think his friend played him, I think it was to show us that at least the friendship they had was real. Pendleton, (his real name) was always on Joel about doing more than just sitting around doing nothing...He finally got his act together.

This movie hit me like a rock because I have lived that life and have known every one of the characters...

As for the letter, I really do think Caitlan loved Penny, and that is what she said in the letter, or apologized, simple, but to some people, MONEY trumps LOVE....trust me, it happens, and I have dated women like that, they truly exist...but that *beep* Grant says about not being able to close a sale, well that is ridiculous, because he sold everyone of them to do his dirty work, and he kept Caitlan....he closed her on staying with him and the money.
Remember what he said about being pissed off that Penny had sex with Caitlan? I think Grant made it very unbearable for her, she had to ripoff Penny, even though she knew it was wrong! Why not? Penny ripped off the old lady even though he knew it was wrong....When he put her on hold and went storming into Grant's office, wanting to know if it was legit, and the answer he got was pure sales con poetry.

The ending to this movie wasn't pretty...I agree, I wanted more, I wanted to see Caitlan waiting in a car outside his apartment, with a bag of money, Penny's and Grant's, but real life does not work out that way. Remember when she tries to get Penny to accept the money she promised for marrying him? She wanted him to take it, because I think even then she knew the outcome, their way of getting back at him for screwing up their plan....no one was supposed to have gotten paid, except for the bonuses...Penny demanded to be paid daily, something they hadn't planned on, so they had to somehow get it all back.

FYI, someone earlier said they flew off to South America, I thought it was Arizona?

The one part I don't get was the twins. Were they in on it? After the bank, and before going home, Penny stops at that diner where he met them, and they weren't there....also, wasn't that the place where Caitlan tracked him down?
I am wondering what part they had in it?

Overall, because this movie was more realistic than most movies, I give it 4/5, the ending could have been a bit more clear, but, if realism is what the director was going for, then they succeeded....life isn't wrapped up in nice neat little packages as is shown in 90% of Hollywood's output. They wanted to kick us in the stomach at the end of the movie, and well, they acheived that.

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I think that's stretching it a bit. The fact that the guy is crippled doesn't mean he is helpless. He is clearly able to move around on his crutches. We see this early in the movie. Why wouldn't he be able to clean the house? Penny does not seem the least bit surprised that Rory Cochrane cleaned up. Neither one of them makes it seem as if this situation is the least bit out of the ordinary. He didn't use Penny. He's simply showing his appreciation for Penny looking out for him.

The thing that makes Penny walk away is clearly the letter. I would love to know if it was even in the script (or in an alternate/deleted scene) what it said.

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I thought this was a great movie, which is why we are all talking about it, and with so many different interpretations.

I think the twins were sought of "in on it". They probably got a finder's fee for realing in a big fish like Penny.

I don't know if the girl loved Penny or not, but it didn't matter. She took the money and split. Her "I love you" in the morning could have been real, or it could have been the finishing touch in the "confidence" game to give her more of a slight head start without alarming him. Who knows?

I think the handicapped man, Joel, represented not only his heart but his "life" before these people came for him.

Penny had skills, and the ability to pick up on scams, at least better than other people.

But he wasn't a real shark because he had a heart (Joel and the widow). He did this for survival, like a job. But he was no competition for the people who are this, and who never sleep. They have no time for lifelong friends, love, or heart wrenching stories like the widows.

Like the twins said, he was out of his league, in spite of the precautions he took like his daily commission in cash. I mean, for goodness sake, Penny took his own personal money and gave it to the rest of the telephone solicitors when the old job closed!

I never figured if Penny was leaving his friend for good at the end, or if he was just taking a walk to think either, though.

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I think she really did love him. She just was selfish and not willing to work a legitimate job, or jepardize her own security. If you remember when they were walking in the park. Ormond's character told Vaughn's that "You can do this all by yourself". I took this to mean that she was imploring him to take the next step up the con ladder. If he would have been receptive. She would have hitched her star to him and left Harris. When Vince said that he didn't think he had what it took to run a huge scam on his own. It seemed to me that Ormond had to debate internally between her long term security (staying with Harris)and her true feelings(being with Vaughn). In the end she chose her own security. I doubt the money went to Harris in the end. Ormond kept it and added to her own kitty.

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I must be missing something too.

I didn't get that the letter at the end was from Caitlin to Penny. I got that it was the letter she used at the bank to get his money.

Remember the teller said she had a letter signed by Penny along with the marriage license. Rory even makes a comment about how the writing and signature sure looked good. I got that Rory had read the letter before Penny got back home. Maybe that was his motivation to clean up the place and cook dinner, he knew that Penny had been scammed.

There was no "Dear John" letter with money inside. How the bank withdrawal letter got to Penny's place AFTER Caitlin used it to empty the account is a mystery. Did she come back to the apartment to get her stuff? Why?

The money Penny pulled out of his pocket was the $1,000 down payment that Caitlin insisted Penny keep. I didn't see Penny take money out of the letter and it sure wasn't $5 grand.

Penny left the $1,000 for Rory and left to do ???. Look for Caitlin? Look for another job? Commit suicide? Go for a walk and think about his next move? Who knows . . . that was why the ending was so unsatisfactory. Had she not told Penny she loved him, the ending makes sense, he's scammed, she's gone, end of story. But the "I love you" scene messes that up and we now need to know more about why Caitlin went ahead with the plan to steal Penny's money.

I do think Caitlin migh have left Kelly and kept the money. But she isn't going to keep her Green Card once Penny tells his story to Immigration. Getting a Green Card via marrying an American isn't that easy, so maybe she stays with Kelly for the next scam, maybe she goes home to England, maybe the Green Card is a red herring.

Penny's whole relationship with Caitlin takes place in a month or less. Maybe even two weeks. All the other sales people were being paid by check at the conclusion of raising the $2 million and their checks all bounced. She only slept with Penny, was put up to doing it by Ed Harris to make sure none of the sales people made any money, she ended up liking the sex, maybe grew to like Penny, but wasn't about to give up the high living she enjoyed with Kelly Grant. Their clothes, her expensive sunglasses, the furnishings in the boiler room office, the rented jet, and the classical music all painted a picture of a couple living life in the fast lane with plenty of money. After all, no one rents a room full of nice office furniture, a modern phone system and computers or a jet plane without some payment up front. Kelly and Caitlin were willing to invest in their scheme to make a lot more money in the end.

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Wow - came back to review this, and still can't believe that ANYONE liked this movie that much. So many different feelings and interpretations, which is what life is about, but man - this film, to me, was just so obvious, and just didn't go anywhere. I don't enjoy watching a movie that goes exactly where it's obvious it's going, but upon getting there, even the journey is extremely boring. Again, to me, a waste of actors, money, scripts, production, you name it. So basic, so telegraphed, so not unusual or unique, so ordinary, so been done a million times before, but better.

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I thought this was a great movie to show the scams of Telemarketers and their corrupt surpervisors.Great performances by all in the cast.Just to sum it up here.The what goes around comes around thing applies here somewhat.Penny was great at his job of getting people to being scammed over the phone.So naturally being a big fish in a little pond he thought he could move to something bigger.At the scene in the construction yard Kelly Grant knew that Penny was still leary and doubtful of the whole thing.However a scam artist cant have a skeptic on his team in order to acheive their mission which was to rip the workers off from the beginning now can they?Once Kelly saw that Penny was making lots of money then he got Caitlain to hover into Penny's life romatically at first then of course the marriage bank account scam.Saw that one a mile away.Penny's friend Joel having the friendship that he has with Penny is to show that Penny is really not a bad guy.Also Penny hesitates to continue with the old lady because he feels bad but of course Kelly insists he continue.I think the bathtub scene was to show that Caitlan realizes that Penny is truly a nice guy and so deep inside she feels like kind of guilty for carrying out the plot.The I Love You in the room at the end I dont know If she meant that or she just wanted him to think that?The last scene is very memorable with Penny walking out of the apt.and on to the sidewalk down the street.Like someone said earlier that was definitely shown to be the innocence of children vs the cruelty of adults.

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