some questions?


i have a few questions- first off, i have not seen seul contres tous yet cause they dont have it at blockbuster, and i watched carne in segments on youtube so i'm not really sure if they cut some stuff out but anyway:

1) was he involved with his cell mate in prison? as he was leaving he had said a warm goodbye and then mentioned how he was not gay. people have different definitions to what "gay" really is, some believe that you can have sexual relations with the same sex, like in prison, and still not be gay. does anyone else think he was sexually involved with his cell mate?

2) and this might be an ignorant question, because i hardly know anything about french culture, but did his relationship with his daughter seem sexual? i saw a trailer where he mentioned his daughter going through puberty and how he had to resist his urges, and then watching the film, i got a weird vibe that he was sexual towards her- like in his letters to her and the kiss he gave her at the hospital.

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1) yes

2) that is a yes, too. at the end of soul contres
tous he even sleeps with her and does not regret
his deep love to her.

(in irreversible he is also shown again, with
a friend hanging out and telling him about it)


"best/worst-movie-ever"-idiots don't deserve to watch movies at all ...

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Finally saw carne on youtube after reading about it for years (gotta hate being in the usa sometimes as a film fan) I was wondering if the little dude he is talking to in that scuzzy hotel at the beginning of irreversible was his cell mate from carne? It's been years and they both look older. This time the butcher is in his underwear (or nekkid) and the cellmate has his cloths on. Any idea if I am barking up the wrong tree?

I am NOT the "real" Peter Judson.

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I don't really think so. How much time passed between the events in Seul contre tous and Carne? The actor you see in the beginning of Irreversible next to the Butcher character is in Seul contre tous and clearly a different person than the cell mate.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

yes he had sex with his cellmate but as he explains it was purely because he could not have sex with women and yes he didnt just love his daughter he was in love with her he is clearly a man that runs on emotion and most of that emotion is anger and lust.

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1) Did the butcher fùck his cellmate? Yes. You knew it would happen as soon as you saw the cellmate in his sh1stained underpants sitting next to the butcher being all friendly. When he gets out, he admits it to himself but vows never to think about it again.

Note that the use of "gay" in the English translation is actually a politically-correct mistake, which is why the butcher appears oddly polite about it. It should have been translated "fag" which has a negative connotation.

2) Did the butcher fùck his daughter? Technically no, but this is an interesting question. He SEEMS to have fùcked his daughter, even though there is no explainable reason to believe that. Just one example is: when he sees blood on her skirt, what's the first (and only) thing he thinks happened?

This is why the film reminded me of Kubrick: it visually, subtly, and disturbingly shows what people *really* are, and it contradicts what people SAY they are and what you could infer from only reading the script.

An example from Kubrick which I bet you didn't notice, is that in 2001, when Bowman (the ego) opens the sealed door to HAL (the superego) to disconnect him (reject logic and accept the "animal") so that he can complete the secret (to a newly-pubescent child) mission to Jupiter (a female) and do what the ID and instinct want (have sex) by sliding into the stargate (a cùnt with an explosion at the end (an orgasm), the camera is centered on Bowman's dick. And when he climbs into HAL, The entire image then rotates, with his dick in the center of the screen.

Noé does this kind of thing too. For example, the butcher rubs his daughter's naked legs while washing her. HE doesn't think this is sexual, but the audience does (and thinks they're not supposed to). Same when he stares at his daughter's sleeping ass and talks about puberty. What he SAYS is normal for a father. But the audience again feels sexy -- and probably guilty about feeling it.

That was on purpose, and that's why Noé is like Kubrick.

Note: AFTER all that occurred to me, I read that Kubrick was greatly admired and mimicked by Noé. Woh, now I trust my own opinions more!

I stepped through the end sequence a frame at a time. Different still photos are in each frame (Noé uses one frame per photo, Kubrick used two to make the same effect which is better because it allows the viewer to perceive what's being shown, albeit just barely - refs on req).

The end sequence is the dream of his daughter, and merges all the symbolic elements which recur in the film (the rocking horse, the masked TV character "Carne", the ass-end of the horse (the immediately preceding shot is of the butcher fuçking a woman in the ass to give her a miscarriage), knives, reciprocating motion, and others), with the effect that love is shown to really be sex, and sex is shown to really be violence. Those two facts are not only TRUE, but they're pure Kubrick (i can give other Kubrick movie refs for that if anyone wants).

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Thanks for that interesting point (also includes the views on 2k1 space odissey)
I am impressed that a US girl can tell on bad translations from french. Enormément!
One question, though... I have been watching the dream scene twice in slo mo, but could not find the knives you re reffering to... Are you sure? (i am quite sure you wrong; but from what i read on your blog, you probably are sure. ;p)

I d like to note, back on the flick, that the main guy, being a butcher, bears the weight of all the killings for us, consumers, to eat meat without having to kill. This imprints the guy somehow, which gives him this "love is sex and sex is violence" feeling you are talking about.

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Sooooooo... I hear you're a [insert penis]géék?[/insert penis]

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[deleted]

I dont think the bath part was sexual.
i think it look more like he is cleaning a horse before killing it.
looks mechanical.

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