MovieChat Forums > Gohatto (1999) Discussion > I. Don't. Get. It.

I. Don't. Get. It.

posted 18 years ago by cinnamon_rose88
11 replies | jump to latest

I didn't get the movie at all. The plot (or lack of in my opinion/confusion), the characters, the ending...

What exactly was the plot of this movie?
Did Kano actually love anyone, or was he just trying to destroy them?
Did he set Tashiro up?
What was the vow?
What/why did Soji go back, what did he forget?

Bascially, it's simple to tell that I'm absolutely lost. I have no idea what the last hourish was about...nothing is registering. So please, someone break it down for me.

Thanks

[–] anastasia_88 18 years ago

I don't understand most of it as well. I think that is the main purpose of the movie. To let us interpret most of it. Now, as for your questions, this is my opinion:

What exactly was the plot of this movie?
- How beauty can destroy us

Did Kano actually love anyone, or was he just trying to destroy them?
- I think he loves Soji. About others, I'm not really sure what is his purpose

Did he set Tashiro up?
- Maybe, maybe not

What was the vow?
- I'm clueless about this as well

What/why did Soji go back, what did he forget?
- To kill Kano. He did not forget anything

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] abigailblake 17 years ago

the vow according to my japanese friend was to die by the hand of someone he loved

[–] Aulic Exclusiva 17 years ago

You are not as "lost" as you think. You are asking all the right questions.

Your problem is to think that the movie is there to GIVE you the answers. It is not. In this, it is true to life. Life does NOT readily give answers.

If you have really loved someone but never had a clue as to what they were really thinking, then you have experienced something like this movie.

The questions suggested have a similarity to the ethical queries typical of Zen Buddhism: they do not have pat answers. The excercise of considering them is what it's all about.

Keep putting those questions to yourself, and the greatness of this movie will slowly reveal itself to you.

[–] BwlBoy 17 years ago

This was a first for me. The first film involving Samurai which I didn't enjoy. Average.

[–] Suzume-san 17 years ago

Average, bwlboy? That's an odd way of putting it. OK, you may not have enjoyed the film - you were probably expecting chambara, an action movie, and I can see that this would come of something of a surprise. But it can hardly be described as "average", unless you've seen a whole lot of other gay love stories set within fighting units in Edo-period Japan... ho hum, this again...

Look at Oshima's catalogue of other work and you'll get an idea of where he's coming from. He is interested in sexuality and human relationships. The setting is incidental.

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] BwlBoy 16 years ago

Suzume-san, I would suggest that anything on imdb with an average rating under 7 out of 10 would be regarded as an average film. Just because something is different doesn't mean it is better. This film may be symptomatic of Oshima's work but it was subject matter which does not enthuse me and evidently based on its rating on here is an opinion that is shared by more people than isn't.

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

Oh, do you use 'average' to mean 'not very good'? That useage isn't really current where I am; I would use it to mean 'ordinary, commonplace'. OK, fair enough. It's not a film that's going to attract very high ratings, I can see that.

One of the problems with films with a jidai-geki setting is that people expect them to be action movies, swords and slashing. Even the great Seven Samurai itself gets its fair share of adverse comments from people who didn't get what they were expecting. I don't watch Westerns myself but I imagine a similar thing might happen there, if you have a film that's a love story or a human drama rather than a lot of gunfighting. Such is life.

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] ccmiller1492 16 years ago

I don't know how anyone can consider this an "average" film...it is so very unusual and distinctive in style, period and subject matter. I consider it a masterpiece. It is certainly not shallow entertainment, it is one of the few films that challenges you to think and continues to draw you in despite it's different pacing and minimal action.
I think many Japanese films are misunderstood or not understood because of the great differences in cultural history.
Comparing this film to the typical lightweight action film with a fast pace and simple one-dimensionsl plot is like comparing "The Tale of Genji" to "Tom Jones." Any likenesses would be superficial.

I must admit I do have a problem with most Japanese films, but this one,
The Conspiracy of the Yagu Clan, Gate of Hell, Kwaidan, and Rashomon are among my favorites in World Cinema.

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

Hi, CCM, thanks for that - nice to have some support, not to mention a civilised conversation on this board! I agree with everything you say about Gohatto.

I haven't seen your first two favourites, I'll try to get hold of them. I agree with you about Rashomon and Kwaidan - great stuff. In return may I make a couple of recommendations? Among my favourites are Chushingura http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055850/ and Okami yo raku jitsu o kire, variously known as Wolf, Bite the Setting Sun and The Last Samurai (not that one!) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123129/. Two long, slow, thoughtful and beautiful explorations of the samurai world.

What do you mean by your 'problem' with some Japanese film? Not that I'm suggesting that anyone would like every film from a particular culture, that would be absurd. I'm just interested to know what you like and don't like.

Edit: Looking up Conspiracy of the Yagyu Clan I find I have seen it, I know it as Shogun's Samurai. Yes, that's a good one, Sonny Chiba doing his stuff and a very young Hiroyuki Sanada, bless him. So I've just got to find Gate of Hell.

[–] Audrain 15 years ago

I totally agree. It is one of Oshima Nagisa's best, along with Ai no corrida / In the Realm of the Senses, Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence, Hakuchu no torima / Violence at Noon, and two of his earliest films, Nihon no yoru to kiri / Night and Fog in Japan and Seishun zankoku monogatari / Cruel Story of Youth.

Oshima is a visionary; in this film, as with several of his latter ones, he was looking back historically in order to posit a philosophically profound reading of Japanese culture and history, as well as desire, beauty, and so many other important themes in a broader sense. The results are profound.