MovieChat Forums > Gohatto (1999) Discussion > Homosexuality is not the 'taboo' here

Homosexuality is not the 'taboo' here

posted 16 years ago by Ottilia
42 replies | jump to latest

Homesexuality is not the taboo, it's accepted openly and the top commanders of the Imperial militia are not against it. Rather, the militia is about dealing consciously with the most problematic human traits: unrestricted instincts like violence. Thats what they train, and thats what they do when they keep the public order.

So the militia command really only fears that too much loose morals will produce disorder, and the story is really about the dark secret of Kano. Why a seemingly gifted and beautiful guy would have this kind of disintegrating influence, how would he the rookie be able to do the decapitation so efficiently...

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

Quite right and well said, Ottilia. In any case I don't know where this rather misleading English title came from; as I understand it Gohatto means something like The Code - presumably the Shinsengumi code of practice. Which makes good sense, since it's written up on the walls and our characters discuss it.

Kambei of the Gormful Gumi.

[–] Laura_Organa_Solo 16 years ago

The title is misleading if you only equate it to mean homosexuality = taboo.

However, when you think about it, the taboo in question is the samurai of the shinsengumi allowing petty sexual desire to interfere with discipline and order.

Or maybe I'm just rationalizing. But it makes sense to me.

[–] Ottilia 16 years ago

Here's what how I figure this film out.

Kano has been sexually abused before he came to the militia. His motivation to join the join the militia is to get official permission for killing - revenge on anyone who might further abuse him.

The codex that was broken first in this case was that of male love, which actually was very accepted and ritualized in Japan. The film ist mostly silent about this historical background.

Kitano's character finds out about Kano's foul play too late, when Tashiro is already dead. Kano even tricks Tashiro with 'lovers words', the ultimate betrayal..

The chopping down the cherry tree is another one of those figurative final scenes. It's not just Kitano's anger but it's probably meant to represent the violation of the innocent.. Great japanese stuff once again!

[–] monarque-1 16 years ago

The above comments were very enlightening. The title "Tabu-Gohatto" certainly had me puzzled. "Taboo" confused me because of the obvious acceptance of homosexuality by the officers and men. However, thinking of the film as "The Code" eliminates this confusion. (I couldn't find an on-line dictionary translation for "Gohatto"...I should have come here first !)

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

I think the mistranslation is due to the western world. Since western civilization is mostly Christian and homosexuality is strictly forbidden by God. Whoever decides these things must have decided to forewarn western viewers by using this false title.

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

homosexuality is strictly forbidden by God

Don't you mean by priests? Or by St Paul? Or by the elders of the church? Or by whoever writes The Code for your particular small corner of the world?

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

You're confusing religion with faith. Religions do not listen to God's Word.

Besides that, and more to your point, the "whoever" in "whoever wrote the code" is God.

But more to my point, this is why I think the title was falsified. The religious world cannot stand other points of view - history bares me out on this. Me? I have faith and have heard all kinds of insults about the Lord Savior Jesus Christ, and even God. So how can I be so tolerant? B/c I use to say very similar things about God and His Son. All I know is, once I was blind, but now I see.

May God richly bless you and yours, in Jesus' name, amen.

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

the "whoever" in "whoever wrote the code" is God.

Really? Did he use a quill pen or a word-processor?
I'm not about to start an arguement about revealed religion, which to me is nothing more than a quaint survival, but you must surely see that there are no absolutes, codes and moral laws are a social construct and vary from one culture to another. Which is where we came in.

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

He used His prophets.

All I can do is reply if you ask a question.

And of course you should know that I am a sinner... I don't want to have anyone think that I think I am good, or anything resembling a "holy person" (the Bible says that only God is Holy). All I know is that once I was blind, but now I see.

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

As I thought, this is not a viable conversation.

Getting back to the film and its title, I can't find a translation of the word 'Gohatto' either. Can anyone who speaks the language help?

Kambei of the Gormful Gumi.

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

So far _every_ site I have visited has said that homosexuality - in 1865 Japan - is the taboo. So I put it at the top of my NETFLIX que. The DVD has a director's commentary. I'll quote what he says about this issue and settle it once and for all.

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

That's great, LivingDog, it will be very interesting to hear what he has to say. Oshima is the director of In the Realm of the Senses, you know.

I wonder whether by any chance every site you have visited has been American?

Kambei of the Gormful Gumi.

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

Suzume-san: "I wonder whether by any chance every site you have visited has been American?"

Good point. But I don't read Japanese... oh, I see your other point - that the word "Gohatto" is best understood by someone who speaks Japanese. Well, I did go to an English-Japanese online dictionary and did a search for "gohatto" - no matches. Is this a slang word or perhaps there is another better spelling?

BTW, I did see one site with "Japan" in their URL.

Regardless what people say, the director's words will settle this for me. ... Always go to the source. :)

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

Actually, I meant American as opposed to European or other English-language site, I wasn't expecting you to read Japanese! But I've searched around and all the film sites I can find seem to be copying the information from each other, which gets us nowhere. One of them did say that the translation of 'Gohatto' as 'Taboo' was originally French.

I've got an English-Japanese dictionary here - I am pathetically trying to learn the language - but it doesn't have anything helpful either. 'Go' is an honorific, so I tried 'Hatto' on its own, but the nearest word is 'hato', which means a dove. That can't be right.

We remain baffled.

Kambei of the Gormful Gumi.

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

Suzume-san: "Actually, I meant American as opposed to European or other English-language site, I wasn't expecting you to read Japanese! But I've searched around and all the film sites I can find seem to be copying the information from each other, ... "

LD: yeah! That was my impression but I thought it was just mine.

Suzume-san: " ... which gets us nowhere. One of them did say that the translation of 'Gohatto' as 'Taboo' was originally French."

LD: oh, that's news. I found something at Wikipedia that agrees with my assessment: "Beginning with the Meiji restoration and the rise of Western influence, Christianity began to influence the culture, leading to a rapid decline of sanctioned homoerotic practices in the late 1800s."

Suzume-san: "I've got an English-Japanese dictionary here - I am pathetically trying to learn the language - but it doesn't have anything helpful either. 'Go' is an honorific, so I tried 'Hatto' on its own, but the nearest word is 'hato', which means a dove. That can't be right."

LD: I tried the same thing at a Japanese online translator site. Nothing seems to work.

Suzume-san: "We remain baffled."

LD: YOU READ MY MIND! :) But the DVD should be here in a few days. BTW, I do know a student who is Japanese ... but am afraid to ask in email b/c of the topic. I could get in serious trouble.

I started teaching myself Japanese. No plurals, no indefinite articles, NO CONJUGATION! What could be easier? I learned 200 words and some grammar. I picked it up again only to put it down. I know _no_ Japanese people where I live so the motivation to continue faded after a few months.

Chinese? Spanish? French? Italian? German? Russian? - no problem - they are everywhere in NYC. And they would probably enjoy helping others learn their language. Japanese? You might as well look for air on the moon. :/

--By God's grace alone I just thought of a way to ask my ex-student--

hi <student>,

I need a word which is giving me and another person trouble to translate. We have tried dictionaries as well as translation sites and none of them know the word. It is the title of a Japanese movie. Would your parent mind if I ask them to translate it for us?

Please have them contact me via email. Also, if they would rather not, that is no problem.

--

Well, I feel better about that way of asking than what I thought of before which struck me as awkward.

Now the DVD and this student... I'm goin' nuts tryin' to figure this one out.

..........(gohatto, gato, go latte, Mighty Joe Young! AHH! ... hehehe :)
@.@

OH! I just remembered two more words which have no translation: "dattabayo" and "itadaikimasu". Naruto says it very often (for emphasis?) and the other one is said before a meal ("Thank God"? "Let's eat"? "Hip Hip Hoorah"??? ... nuts i tell ya' im goin' nuts ... @.@ hehe)

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

Gosh, are you in New York? Somehow I pictured you out in the wild and woolly West. Are there really no Japanese people living there? I thought there was everything - NYC is a world city like my own, isn't it? (I'm a Londoner.)

I'm going to start a Japanese language course at Birkbeck (part-time branch of London University) in the autumn, so then I will have a sensei to ask. In the meantime I have asked a Japanese friend here on IMDb, I'll let you know her answer, if any. I do have a Japanese friend here in London, but she's a very respectable sort of person and I don't know her that well, like you I don't quite like to ask such a question.

Interesting your Wiki article, but of course this is before the Meiji restoration. In fact we can date it precisely from Okita and Hijikata's conversation about the Ikedaya Incident 'last year'; so it must now be 1865.

Kambei of the Gormful Gumi.

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

There is a small group of Japanese in Manhattan - not my neck of the "woods" LOL! :)

The movie's time is 1865, I didn't think of checking when the Meiji restoration occurred.

Anyway, I feel a solution is nearby.

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

1868 http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2130.html
One fact we can know for sure!

Kambei of the Gormful Gumi.

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

[1] NO COMMENTARY?!? yeah, nothing, no interviews, no commentary, nothin'

[2] in the movie homosexuality is accepted. E.g. Soji and the second in command have a discussion about Tashiro and Kano (the effeminate samurai). The commander asks:

Commander: "Soji, what do you think of Tashiro and Kano?"

Soji: "Not my cup of tea, one man loving another..." and the commander then says nothing except continue with what he did mean, namely:

Commander: "Which of the two were stronger?" (in their test fight)

In my opinion, in this movie, homosexuality is _not_ the taboo.

[3] so what is taboo? maybe nothing. maybe this is just a story about Kano, how he affects men who are already homosexual. NOTE: the leader was said to have a "leaning", the leader of the 5th unit is openly courting (trying to win Kano over), and Tashiro has made moves since day 1! He called Kano his "true love" out in the open - no hidden closets or anything.

[4] to find out what was the view of 1865 Japanese homosexuality, one should consult a historian. For all I know, Nagisa Oshima is portraying what he wants to portray. Movies are for entertainment only - and never for information.

And finally,
[5] what the hec does GOHATTO mean?!? No word from my Japanese student. But I have discovered 2 Japanese professors... my search for the truth continues.

If I ever get hard core information, I'll post here or send you a pm.

peace dude - dog out.

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] bulimix 16 years ago

homosexuality is strictly forbidden by God

Not true. Just by some Christian fundamentalists or narrow minded groups. God never spoke to anybody.

Gohatto means The honorable code/doctrine

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

OLD TESTAMENT

Leviticus 18:22
"'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. ... '"

NEW TESTAMENT

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

Yes, Living Dog, I know that you believe the Bible to have been personally written by God, but the rest of us believe that it was written by people, and reflects their own belief systems. None of the characters in the film is Judao-Christian. I don't think there's an Epistle of St Paul to the Kyotoites.

[–] LivingDog 16 years ago

Suzume-san,

Konichi wa? I still haven't heard from the three Japanese professors I emailed the last time we exchanged posts.

To the point though, I know that none of you believe in the God of Israel nor His Word, Jesus Christ, but since bulimix said: "homosexuality is strictly forbidden by God - Not true." I had to set the record straight.

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] bulimix 16 years ago

Like Suzume-sama said, it's written by people, not by god, nor has god said anything. End of story.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Oblivion14 15 years ago

Heh. I noticed you quote 'sexually immoral' as proof that homosexuality is strictly forbidden by God. Do you really think homosexuality is purely sexual?

The oft-used quote says that homosexuality merits the punishment of death is from Leviticus, a very strict book of codes written by CLERGY. The Levites - one of the strictest tribes of Israel. If you read Leviticus closely, you will notice it deals with priestly rituals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviticus

Don't believe me? What are you wearing right now? Because chances are you're committing a sin punishable by stoning:

Leviticus 19: "You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together."

Oh and yeah, you can sell your daughters if they disobey you to slavery. You also need to stone adulterers to death. And husbands and wives who sleep on the same bed when the woman is menstruating. If you wear glasses or are sick or have any form of disability at all, you are not ever to enter any temple of God. You must keep the Sabbath, anyone disobeying is put to death. Sex with slaves, poisoning wells, shaving... should I go on?

Or do you get why Leviticus is really nothing more than a ridiculous book concocted by power-crazy priests intent on keeping everything under their thumbs?

Neither Jesus nor the Ten Commandments (the only real undiluted 'words of God' in the Bible) mention homosexuality as one of the mortal sins. In fact Jesus himself said something about it... I'm guessing you do your best to ignore Luke 10:10-13 huh?

Luke 10:10-13: [Jesus said]"When you enter a town and they do not make you welcome... I tell you it will be more bearable for Sodom on the great Day than for that town."

And yeah. What group of people are shunned. As in totally turned away, even if they are devout Christians simply because they happened to love a person of the same sex? Which group of people are viewed worse than murderers, worse than slavers, worse than almost anything bad anyone can think of... and for no reason at all except that they don't like who these people love? Which people are turned away by almost all the Christian churches?

And the worst irony of all. None of you saw the striking resemblance of Gohatto, with one of the greatest tragedies in the Bible. Guess what great warrior said this:

"I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; greatly beloved were you to me; your love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."

David. Yes, David, the original King of the Israelites, was in love with Jonathan. Make all the excuses you want. The verses speak for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_and_Jonathan

I am atheist, and I still wonder if fundamentalists really read their Bible rather than parroting what their clergy has taught them to believe. It's kinda sad when an atheist actually knows more about it, don't you think? I'm afraid, you are still blind, LD. You see only what your priests want you to see. Read the Bible again, and you'll notice the entirety of the Message is LOVE, not what not to do, what not to eat, what not to look at, etc. etc. Even Jesus hated the rabbis (pharisees) and their strict senseless laws, it's ironic that two thousand years later, it's back to the same old hierarchy. Nobody, it seems, listened to the parable of the Good Samaritan. Nobody washes feet anymore, and just spend their lives sneering at those with the dirtiest feet, all the while hiding the dirt on their own soles.

Anyway, I digress, back to the topic. I'm also part Asian, and yes, words have different meanings based on tonal pronunciation. Sadly I do not speak Japanese, but I don't believe Japanese is a tonal language. Thai and Chinese most assuredly. But Korean and Japanese aren't tonal, as far as I know. The only thing I can offer is that 'Gohatto' is a loanword from a western culture, or a compound word.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jasonbourneagain 14 years ago

If you translate Japanese to French, then gohatto makes sense. It means prohibition or interdiction.

[–] Xcalat3 15 years ago

well said

thats exactly what I was thinking

they gay "thing" is not THE taboo in the movie

When there's no more room in hell, The dead will walk the earth...

[–] LivingDog 15 years ago

I have started studying Japanese. Along the way I discovered software which will translate the Romaji (romanized pronunciation of Japanese) you type into the syllabary Hiragana and also yield a translation (in your native language - mine being English). It is called Wakan (http://wakan.manga.cz/). So this is an objective source for the factual 100% correct translation of the word "Gohatto", which means: contraband, taboo, strictly forbidden.

Now that we know the translation is correct I think I realize what is going on here - marketing has caught onto this image and paints the idea that IN THIS MOVIE homosexuality is "taboo" - the title and the gay Samurai on the cover is like a red light. This is misleading because in the movie the homosexuality of the characters is announced clearly and treated as casual as heterosexuality.

So NOW I am wondering what then the heck is TABOO in this film?? - and that is the _only real_ question about Gohatto (aka Taboo) - cause it sure as heck isn't the homosexuality!

Quo erat demonstratum

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] richimorton 15 years ago

I lived/worked in Thailand for 2 years - they have many 'tonal' meanings for the same word , whereas we have many words for the same meaning - i think you have to be born into it .

That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger . . .

[–] megArnold 14 years ago

I checked the Kanji (ideograms) of the title as shown in the movie against the kanji in WWWJDIC (http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C) and the translation is indeed "Taboo, contraband, strictly forbidden". Oh I see, both Wakan and WWWJDIC are based on the same databases.

Homosexuality is not the taboo in this movie. It's described as quite common. It is, however, frowned upon, not because of "morality" (an European early 19th century invention) but because for the samurai, desire can interfere with discipline.

I think the taboo was the breaking of the Samurai Code. That's why we have the description of the Code as well as the execution at the beginning, which shows how important the Code is.

[–] LivingDog 14 years ago

I tried Wakan and I believe I came up with a similar answer... it's been a while now. I have to see this again. But I suspect your reply is the best answer.

OT: watch this, it's a real treat for Japanese samurai film fans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsI1TftGfFk&feature=player_embedded

-LD
____________
my faith: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/jbc33/

[–] therealredkite 14 years ago

You all missed the point. Homosexuality was not a taboo in samurai times. However, the movie was made in 1999. And during the 20th century it became a taboo in Japanese public view.

There are thousands and thousands of historical movies (jidai-geki) in Japan, most of which deal with samurai. However, "Gohatto" is the only one I know that broaches the issue of homosexuality, at least at the time it was made. So why is that? If homosexuality (or better: pederastry) among samurai was a most ordinary thing in Japanese history, why is it concealed like that? I think that's the taboo Ôshima is refering to. He wants to open up an issue totally neglected by Japanese movies so far. He already portayed a similar taboo love affair between men in "Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence".

So don't just take the movie as a statement about Japanese history, but also as a statement about public and movie recognition of that history. At least that's how I feel about this.

[–] Suzume-san 14 years ago

Well said, Kite, a very valid point. This is certainly not jidai-geki in he ordinary sense, at all.

[–] therealredkite 14 years ago

Come to think of it, Ôshima's treatment of the topic is deeply ironic: he confronts a taboo issue by treating it as something completely ordinary.

It's stark contrast to the way Hollywood usually deals with homosexuality by implying as much political correct empathy for its homosexual protagonists as possible and therefore turning it into a spectacle (like in "Brokeback Mountain"). Instead Ôshima seems to say: They're in love with a young man. So what?

It should be noted that "homosexuality" is also not the right term to deal with shudô, the samurai's way of love for young man. In difference to western recognition, in pre-modern Japan it wasn't the person considered to be a homosexual, just the relation in itself. So if a samurai had a young lover (much in the way of the ancient Greek's system of pederastry), he wasn't considered a homosexual person, but just as somebody who had a homosexual relationship. The western notion of personalisation of sexuality would be completely unadequate for pre-modern Japanese standards. I think that should be considered in dealing with the film.

But even around that point there's an ironic twist with Ôshima, when the samurai desperately try to make Kano make love to a female prostitute as to try to make him not gay (and fail). So sexual suppression and hidden desires are actually adressed in the film, but as I said, there's a very twisted sense of irony to the whole film that might slip the attention of Western audiences. Just another proof that there are very modern issues discussed in Gohatto along the line.

[–] jasonbourneagain 14 years ago

I agree with the views that Oshima did not treat homosexuality as the taboo, but he must have known that homosexuality in the samurai was a taboo. I tend to disagree that homosexuality was accepted in the samurai or military so readily in Japan; It probably was oppressive. Oshima takes a different approach to the subject in this movie compared to it in Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence. In that movie, a Korean soldier is ordered to commit seppuku after being caught in an "improper" relationship with one of the Dutch prisoners. The protagonists in Gohatto broach the subject, i.e. Kano and homosexuality, but it's mostly done behind closed doors or in whispers.

Come to think of it, Ôshima's treatment of the topic is deeply ironic: he confronts a taboo issue by treating it as something completely ordinary.

It's stark contrast to the way Hollywood usually deals with homosexuality by implying as much political correct empathy for its homosexual protagonists as possible and therefore turning it into a spectacle (like in "Brokeback Mountain"). Instead Ôshima seems to say: They're in love with a young man. So what?

Yup. He turns the subject upside down and I think most people become confused. This movie could have been titled "Brokeback Samurai ;)."

What about the Kano's motivations for revenge though? He ends up murdering homosexuals. So obviously, he's conflicted.

[–] therealredkite 14 years ago

Kano doess't murder homosexuals. By implying that you stepped into the same trap of a Western view on homosexuality that Ôshima is fighting against.

In Western view, a person in a love relation to another person of the same gender is considered a homosexual. In pre-modern Japan, as in ancient Greek and Rome, before Christianity took over, that was not the case. A homesexual relation didn't say anything about the people involved, but Christian view tends to personalize sexuality. You are what you do. The view presented in the film is different. That is important to note. Therefore the question of "was samurai culture tolerant to homosexuality or not" is wrongly phrased, because it implies a Western understanding to (homo-) sexuality that was not present in the time and the culture Ôshima portraits. It's not about the sexuality of persons, it's about the sexuality of acts between them.

It's incredibly difficult for Western audiences to distinguish between those two views since we all grew up affected by Christian values that tend to personalize sexuality. That's, by the way, also a big problem I have with the contemporary queer movement, because it tends to reproduce the personalization of sexuality from the Christian world view and just exchange the parameters. In this case the queer movement is actually as conservative as the ideology it fights against, while Ôshima, in this film and in others, offers a completely different alternative carried on from pre-modern Japan that does not draw analogies between a sexual act and the sexuality of the people involved.

The Western view an the personalization of sexuality and the Christian condamnation of a personalized homosexuality wasn't introduced to Japan until the radical westernization of the Meiji society from the early 1870s on, so a few years after the movie takes place. You can in that sense read the movie as looking back at an Eden-like sexual innocence before the perversations that came with Western worldviews.

I don't know about you - I wouldn't consider myself a homosexual in the contemporary personalized understanding, but I found Matsuda Ryûhei absolutely mesmerizing in this movie. He's such a babe! ;) And I believe that's what Ôshima was aiming at. It really makes you question your understanding of sexuality if you let yourself to admit it.

[–] jasonbourneagain 14 years ago

Oshima wasn't fighting against Western or Christian views on homosexuality. He wasn't promoting homosexuality nor was he against it in this film. He presents several points of view in the dialog, but he wasn't presenting a political view. Oshima was going against convention and instead of telling us what his views were or sending a message, he let the viewers make up their own mind. This leads to different interpretations and confusion, but it also leads to more and hopefully better discussions.

Since you are enamored by Matsuda Ryuhei, I was interested in exploring his character more. We do not get an adequate explanation of Kano's whorish ambitions in this movie. Why is he so angry and vengeful? Was his vow tied to it? I was pointing out that he plotted against and killed the men that he had relations with. So his sexuality had a part. Or did he kill because of his ambitions -- he was done with these men and they stood in his way? Perhaps I'm trying to make this movie more than it is. It's good visual and artistic cinema, but it's missing some key ingredients.

[–] therealredkite 14 years ago

Ôshima's films are very political. All of them. Not in a sense of superficial political agendas, but in a much deeper and more human understanding. They all question the standards and, as you said, conventions of contemporary society. They tear down our ideologies that we take for granted, question them from within and make us rethink our standardized world views.

Most of the time he uses sexuality for this task. The theme of forbidden and radical love and how we view it reappears in many of his films. The self-destrucitve sexual affair of "In the Realm of Senses" and its pornographic presentation, The love between a young man and much older, married woman in "Empire of Passion", the secret love between prisoner and guard in "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence", the open sexual relationship between woman and ape in "Max mon amour" and finally the samurai taken over by sexual desire for an adolescent boy in "Gohatto" - they also openly question our understanding of sexuality and its representation and therefore work against accepted standards.

You are also right in that Ôshima is wise enough to pose questions and leave the answers to the audience. I also feel it is the major attraction of Kano, that we never understand his motivation. It would have destroyed his enigmatic presence. Ôshima wants to lead the audience into the same trap the samurai step: being driven toward him by his delicate beauty, but never able to understand or reach him. The destructive power of unfulfilled desire is to me the key element in the movie, and it works inside and outside the narrative. The typical Hollywood approach of rationalization and explanation would only have destroyed the haunting power of the movie.

Maybe if you feel that asking a question is more important than finding the answer, you can gain more out of this movie and of Ôshima in general.

The one problem that I have with Ôshimas films is that they almost always end in death. Ôshima seems to focus on the destructive powers of his alternative love affairs, if I may call them that, as if he deep down in himself doesn't believe a questioning of sexual norms can lead to any lasting fulfillment. But maybe that's just the typical Japanese way to find poetry in the tragic aspects of love, carried on at least since Chikamatsu Monzaemon's love tragedies in the Edo age.

Anyway, Kano is as much a threat as he is an attraction. (Unconditional) love and death lie close together, but form a unity of beauty, a view shared with classic Gothic novels and their followers. Kano is a vampire in a way, something beyond understanding and reasoning, and he has to be destroyed to bring back order to a world out of joint. The way I see it the samurai form a conservative order and Kano an element of subversion. In which way you draw political implications out of this is completely up to the audience.

[–] jasonbourneagain 14 years ago

I've only watched Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence and Gohatto, so was trying to find out more about Oshima. After reading your post, maybe he does present a political view. It's more subtle. We do not see his politics so much in the two films, but homosexuality would be a political topic today and when he made his films. So he does open up political topics for discussion.

I do agree Oshima presents films about man's humanity, but also inhumanity. He focuses on the latter more. With Gohatto, he points out the inhumanity of the Samurai code. The sexuality is there in both films, but I'll touch upon that later. Oshima is pointing out that Samurai is acting as judge, jury and executioner and that there is inhumanity and violence built into the code, e.g. Okita wasted no time in executing Kano. Or Kano killing Tashiro. Or even if Tashiro killed Kano, it would have been a solution in Kondo's eyes. With MCML, Oshima goes overboard with the barbaric treatment of prisoners of war. He's pointing out that war brings men to commit barbaric acts against humanity.

In the two movies I saw, Oshima uses homosexuality as a sub-theme. It drives Gohatto and is a key motivation for a main character in MCML. In Gohatto, it causes some uproar among the men because of what happens and concern among the leadership. With MCML, it's the opposite. The captain is the one who has homosexual feelings for a prisoner and it becomes his undoing. Even his underlings see it.

Death is Oshima's resolution. He brings up the inhumanity versus the humanity, expands it and it leads to this conclusion. It's not a blatant message, but a subtle one. We are left to grieve and then try to find the answers.

What bugs me about Oshima is his tone gets lost in the presentation. His use of extraneous violence loses a sense of what he's doing to the audience. That is, he does not recognize how the audience is receiving his presentation at times and he needs to pull back or give them a chance to recover. Furthermore, he should stick with what works for him. Using tricks such as inter-title cards or fade to black scenes seems gimmicky. His use of David Bowie as a teen in MCML was incongruous and unintentionally laughable.

[–] joey-tribbiani 13 years ago

The taboo is not homosexuality but anal intercourse between a man and a boy where there is no proposition. It is based upon who propositions who in these circumstances and how in the samurai code this is broken in the film (because everybody wants the boy) and how this affects everyone because of the problems in proposition.

Generally due to the strict code of the samurais, many things are broken and many codes are broken as well.