Srry but I dont really understand much of this movie :P I mean, I watch alot of anime, I know alot of shinsen gumi, and I watch many many asian movies, but whats the point here? the shinsen gumi being gay? cuz thats very very new for me :p
shareYou need to understand the mind of the director in order to understand this movie. Nagisa Oshima uses sexuality and often like's to focus on it's power and destructive potential.
And, I think you're an idiot.
I have been a IMDB user for couple months now, and this is my first post....
Ddrfreaker, let me just say, you are right on the money.....(especially the second part).
An you're an incurable moron! Cut this person some slack. Just because he or she doesn't understand the movie doesn't make him/her an idiot.
shareThis article should answer a lot of questions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan
For example:"From religious circles, same-sex love spread to the warrior class, where it was customary for a young samurai to apprentice to an older and more experienced man. The young samurai would be his lover for many years. The practice was known as shudo, the way of youth, and was held in high esteem by the warrior class."
Lots of pedophiles in medieval japan then it would seem
share"The practice was known as shudo, the way of youth, and was held in high esteem by the warrior class."
To my knowledge there where and still are many warrior classes in Japan with very different opinions on this matter i'm sure, I'm even more sure that some would be very offended about being painted with the same brush like this. I for one am very dubious about homosexuality in Japan and all this stuff in Wiki-pedia, are there no alternative views about this?
Well, trc, there seems to be your view, for a start. Are you one of those people who are offended by homosexual love? Why is that?
Oh and btw, anousleshommes, I wouldn't really call this 'medieval Japan' - the date in this story is 1865.
Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.
I'm offended by watching homosexual love because in my opinion it's disgusting, much like a homosexual would probably say about a heterosexual. I don't like watching men boink other men. If you do, then maybe you should meet another man and get all of that out of your system, that is if you haven't already.
Good day sirs.
You're a strange lot - have you ever heard of tolerance? As it happens I'm a heterosexual woman myself, and I have a very nice man, thank you; but what has that got to do with it?
Perhaps we should stop this conversation here.
Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.
And if someone finds it disgusting, who are you to force him to find it endearing?
I could care less for the belief that the opinion of the majority is the correct opinion, not least seeing as the majority are often the equally ignorant.
Homosexuality is revolting, unnatural and twisted in every sense. Animals often engage in homosexuality, so it is natural, you say? Some animals also happen to eat their young; I suppose this natural behaviour behooves us humans as well.
Well, you're a charmer, aren't you? Which raises an interesting question - can a tolerant person tolerate intolerance? I suppose so - you're entitled to your own hang-ups and mental difficulties, they needn't trouble me. I'm not forcing anyone to do or think anything.
I imagine you have grown up in that sort of closed-minded community. I live in a very large and international city, one of the biggest in the world; of course there are bigots and ignoramuses here as anywhere, but on the whole we live in peace and enjoy our diversities. If you can't, it's your loss.
Nobody was forcing anyone to find anything endearing. However, he came on the board of a movie which touches upon homosexual themes and started frothing in the mouth. If he insists on sharing his intolerate views, he shouldn't be surprised to see people counter with their own (more tolerant) opinions.
And you're a funny sort, going on and on about how the majority isn't necessarily right when it is the majority, after all, by whose power it was "determined" that homosexuality is "disgusting".
And no, homosexuality isn't revolting, it's not unnatural, it's not immoral (which is what you were trying to get at when you both admitted that homosexuality is, in fact, natural but then tried to say that it still doesn't make it right) and if you're so against it, you should probably ask yourself why. Me, I've seen same-sex couples which were loving and beautiful and inspiring. There's nothing more natural and right than two people making each other happy. After all, happiness spreads like a ripple effect, so the good that they do is not even limited to just the two of them.
"He shall be an adder on the path, to bite a horse's heel"share
If you're offended by it, then don't watch it. And don't project on homosexuals - I've rarely (if ever) met one who was a heterophobe.
"He shall be an adder on the path, to bite a horse's heel"share
Not pedophiles but pederasts. Pedophile = sexual use/abuse of (pre-pubescent) children by adults. Pederasty = sexual use (occasionally abuse) of adolescents and very young adults. (Note: Note everyone is legally an adult at 18; some jurisdictions establish adulthood at 19; in Mississippi, you still do not legally become an adult until age 21.)
In particular, this would have been a kind of ritual pederasty - similar to what Greek aristocrats did in Classical times. A sexual relationship between the younger and older man would have been considered essential in order for the latter to fully communicate what he knew -- not just his intellectual knowledge, but the *physical* knowledge contained in his body as well as more esoterically mystic aspects of communication. Remember this would have been before modern science hit the West, nevermind Japan. It's important not to regard how things *used to be done* as though they were being done today. That approach is bound to skew the historical perspective in the wrong direction.
Well said, McLoughlin, thanks. The Greek parallel is very apt, I think.
And btw, in feudal Japan young men came of age at 15 or thereabouts; by 21 a man was in the prime of his life. In the Edo/Meiji Restoration period, in which this story is set, most of the leading figures were in their twenties or at most early thirties. They're usually depicted as older men in films - as here, where Kondo and Hijikata both look about 50, almost twice their actual age. I suppose directors think audiences wouldn't accept seeing such young chaps in positions of authority and influence. Interesting.
Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.