This movie caused me to lose my religion. How about you? - A.I. Artificial Intelligence (2001) Discussion

[–] loulou1992 8 years ago

Why exactly? You do realize Stephen is himself religious? I loved the film but just that, it never took my beliefs away. For a film to do that to you shows you was just easy to control and open to anyone. Not a dig at you. Just saying how i see it.

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[–] MrCoatsworth 8 years ago

You do realize Stephen is himself religious?

Do have a source for that? He is a cultural Jew - meaning he is of Jewish descent, the way I am of Christian descent but am not a member of any church - but I have never heard him talk about his actual religious beliefs. As far as I can tell, he's a deist at most.

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[–] bgtaylor802 7 years ago

Jewish descent, Christian descent:

No child is "born" into any religion. The parents bear the responsiblility for indoctrinating their children into believing religious dogma.

The idea or belief that every child is born in a state of sin which must be "washed away" by a religious ritual is repulsive and demeaning to innocent children.

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[–] Druff (1447) 9 months ago

For future generations:

bgtaylor802 was (perhaps still is) an idiot who is ignorant of a certain key tenet of Judaism.

i.e.

You might have heard the glib statement "If you came out of a Jewish vagina, you're a Jew, period." That's not a joke. If you are born of a Jewish mother, the Jewish religion considers you to be Jewish, no matter what. If you don't practice the religion, doesn't matter, you're still Jewish. If you were orphaned and adopted and never even knew you were Jewish, doesn't matter, you're still Jewish.

Furthermore, there is no way to renounce your status as a Jew and become an apostate. Even if you convert to another religion, Judaism STILL considers you to be a Jew.

So please, kids... don't be like bgtayor802. Don't go around braying like a jackass about things you have no knowledge about.

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[–] Enrique-8 8 years ago

Citizentenbears: You rely on movies to affect you to the core? They may inspire but they never ultimately convince me of anything that I didn't already know or believe.

Enrique Sanchez

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[–] CinderFall 7 years ago

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[–] robbystoner 8 years ago

there are a number of people out there who interpret the blue fairy and the shattering of the fairy as the shattering of religion and religious belief. though i am not sure I was affected that much by that plot. the fairly resemblance to mother mary statues is quite obvious.

Can this really be the end..to be stuck inside of mobile
with the Memphis blues again.

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[–] vmelkon 8 years ago

"How about you?"

==No, I am already an atheist for a long time.
I went to a religious school and I was a christian.
I was 11. The teacher told us that our ancestors use to worship other gods. BOOM! That woke me up. You mean to tell me that there are other religions?
She continued to tell us how our culture was visited by these disciples and people converted.
WOW, you mean to tell me they just succeeded in convincing them with words?

Over the next year I kept thinking about it and by 12, it was time for me to conclude that it is just stories, transfered from person to person.

As you grow older, things change. Who knows, maybe you will regain your religion.
I won't.

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[–] Vargur 8 years ago

No, I was atheist long before this.
If you don't count the time that you're born, of course, when you're just a blank slate of meat.

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Vargur 8 years ago

It's not a religion, and that's a creationism site.

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[–] slidell333 8 years ago

Interesting post and thread for sure. All I can say as a life-long non-believer that when I finally saw this movie about two years ago when it ended I was just god smacked...Had that "I need a drink" feeling. It was just on and I still had that same feeling just not as intense. But, I just felt like grabbing my GF, my dog, my cat and telling them how much I loved them and appreciated them. I know that sounds strange...I can't describe it..just the questions it poses : "All of us, and everything ever will one day be gone. Will anyone know about us? Are we just a piece of cosmic trash floating towards the inevitable end : Nothing."
In a way it sorta made me hope more for a God, for that basic desire for an answer to a question the human race has been asking since we could communicate. Is there a God? And in that, lies this movie's magic. It's ability to question our very existence.

P.S. Haley J. Osment was on Dan Patrick late last year and he said about AI, how people weren't expecting that huge philosophical jump the film takes at the end....I wish I could find his words exactly but he nailed it. I wasn't expecting that huge jump at the end to the end of the human race..lol..

Dave "Crown Time" Blankenship for Time Man of the Year.

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[–] oneduo 8 years ago

God is real. Open your eyes, your mind and your soul and you will see the truth but you must believe. Don't let other humans deceive you.

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

How about some proof then?

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

God is real. Open your eyes, your mind and your soul and you will see the truth but you must believe. Don't let other humans deceive you.

How about some proof then?

The proof is found in a combination of Descartes and Dumbledore.

Dumbledore said, "Of course it's all happening in your head, Harry. But why on earth should that mean it isn't real?".

Descartes said, "I think, therefore I am."

What is meant is that everything you perceive in the world with your senses might be illusions. Your senses can all be tricked and misled. Thus your internal thoughts are the most real thing you experience.

So, if you feel the presence of God to be real inside you, then God is real in that sense and cannot be denied by others.

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

And if we return to the real world for a second, this is what we call a mental illness.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

And if we return to the real world for a second

How do you know what the real world is?

For all you "know", you are a Matrix-like pod creature who is only dreaming he lives in the "real world".

this is what we call a mental illness.

Who is "we"? And how do you (pl.) know what "mental illness" is?

Did you read about it in a book? Did you get together with others and take a vote? Have you, yourself experienced mental illness? Or is only something you've seen or read about in other people?

Consider what actually is your source of knowledge about "mental illness" and what is real? Have you ever given it any thought?

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

It is the only world that i have any measurable sense of. And if we are in Matrix-like pod, does it matter? I would have taken the blue pill.

By we i mean the medical professionals. and what is medical illness is defined quite clearly. And yes, i have experienced mental illness, though of a different kind. The ones that talk to imaginary people are mostly shizophrenics, im more of an autist myself.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

It is the only world that i have any measurable sense of.

Key word: "I"

Others may measure their world and come up with different numbers than you do. That might be important to keep in mind as you travel through this world.

By we i mean the medical professionals. and what is medical illness is defined quite clearly.

Sometimes. Not always. Take Alzheimer's....Hard to define. Even harder to measure...

im more of an autist myself.

Another good example. The spectrum is difficult to measure, even more difficult to define. Only an intuitive sense based on multiple case experiences can allow a professional to address autism in any useful way.

We all start out in the world thinking there is only one way to view the world: our own way. Maturity and wisdom usually eventually provide insight into the reality that there is no one "reality".

If 86% of human beings on earth believe in God, you can label them all mentally ill if you like. But I suggest a more empathetic mode of understanding might connect you to your fellow species members just a bit better.

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

Others may measure their world and come up with different numbers than you do. That might be important to keep in mind as you travel through this world.

No, unless they are from a different world.

Sometimes. Not always. Take Alzheimer's....Hard to define. Even harder to measure...

Yet alsheimers is clearly defined. Hard to measure though, i agree.

If 86% of human beings on earth believe in God, you can label them all mentally ill if you like. But I suggest a more empathetic mode of understanding might connect you to your fellow species members just a bit better.

I dont want to connect them. If they believe in imaginary friends in the sky i want nothing to do with them.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

Others may measure their world and come up with different numbers than you do. That might be important to keep in mind as you travel through this world.
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No, unless they are from a different world.

Dude, think about what you are saying. You are saying there are only two ways to see the world: Strazdamonas or Wrong.

That's not just arrogant. That's borderline insane.

Yet alsheimers is clearly defined. Hard to measure though, i agree.

How do you define "alsheimers" without any measures?

(and do you claim that your spelling of the word is correct, since it is Strazdomonas way of spelling it?)

If 86% of human beings on earth believe in God, you can label them all mentally ill if you like. But I suggest a more empathetic mode of understanding might connect you to your fellow species members just a bit better.
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I dont want to connect them. If they believe in imaginary friends in the sky i want nothing to do with them.

The fact remains that you DO connect with them. You are not secluded away in a restricted community where everyone is an atheist and God is illegal. You could be but you are not. You choose to interact with religious people every day.

Even your time on IMDb represents that. You openly debate against religious people, spending your time interacting with them. That is YOUR choice, when you could be ignoring them.

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

Dude, think about what you are saying. You are saying there are only two ways to see the world: Strazdamonas or Wrong.

That's not just arrogant. That's borderline insane.

You're almost there. Just a slight correction:

There are only two ways to see the world: Objective Facts or Wrong.

How do you define "alsheimers" without any measures?

(and do you claim that your spelling of the word is correct, since it is Strazdomonas way of spelling it?)

I am not a native speaker so my spelling may be wrong indeed, your sarcasm nonwithstanding.

The fact remains that you DO connect with them. You are not secluded away in a restricted community where everyone is an atheist and God is illegal. You could be but you are not. You choose to interact with religious people every day.

Even your time on IMDb represents that. You openly debate against religious people, spending your time interacting with them. That is YOUR choice, when you could be ignoring them.

You are correct, sadly the believers are around in the same community, so we have to do what best we can to make sure they arent spreading their mental deficiency onto others. I dont have a problem interacting with religiuos people just like i dont have problem interacting with, say, autists. I have problem with them attempting to make others mentally ill as well.

Being ignored is the best way for stupidity to spread.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

There are only two ways to see the world: Objective Facts or Wrong.

You have a problem. The opposite of "objective" is "subjective".

"Subjective" means you see a "fact" from a certain point of view- your own.

"Objective" means you can see a "fact" from all points of view and all possible perspectives.

You are claiming to be God. Are you God?

If not, then you are limited to seeing facts only from your own perspective and point of view. Having a narrow, limited, biased view is part of the condition of being human. You are evolved from an ape. You only have a limited range of hearing and vision. That limits you and your brain. Unless you claim you are superhuman.

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How do you define "alsheimers" without any measures?

(and do you claim that your spelling of the word is correct, since it is Strazdomonas way of spelling it?)
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I am not a native speaker so my spelling may be wrong indeed, your sarcasm nonwithstanding.

You are not "speaking" here. You are writing, which is the way non-native people learn English.

If you are capable of making that mistake you are capable of many other mistakes. Therefore you are human, not superhuman. Therefore you are only capable of grasping things subjectively, not objectively.

I dont have a problem interacting with religiuos people just like i dont have problem interacting with, say, autists. I have problem with them attempting to make others mentally ill as well.

You have your own mental illness, which is a God-complex. You think you are superhuman and that it is impossible for you to be wrong.

Which would be fine, if you kept it to yourself. But you are not. You are trying to convince others on the internet that you are God and that you know all. In your attempt to make the world a better place, consider looking inward.

Ἰατρέ, θεράπευσον σεαυτόν (Physician, heal thyself)

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

You have a problem. The opposite of "objective" is "subjective".

"Subjective" means you see a "fact" from a certain point of view- your own.

"Objective" means you can see a "fact" from all points of view and all possible perspectives.

You are claiming to be God. Are you God?

If not, then you are limited to seeing facts only from your own perspective and point of view. Having a narrow, limited, biased view is part of the condition of being human. You are evolved from an ape. You only have a limited range of hearing and vision. That limits you and your brain. Unless you claim you are superhuman.

I do have a problem. The problem of being pestered by stupidity like this.

Subjective means you think something from your point of view, which may or may not be a fact.

Objective means a measurable, provable fact.

No, i am not limited to seeing things (not facts) from my own perspective because we have a great invention called communication, which allows sharing of perspectives. Furthermore, mine or anyone elses perspective is not needed for something to be an objective fact. Sun was got before any human even though about what sun is. We can now measure and proof without a doubt that sun is hot. This is an objective fact.

You are not "speaking" here. You are writing, which is the way non-native people learn English.

If you are capable of making that mistake you are capable of many other mistakes. Therefore you are human, not superhuman. Therefore you are only capable of grasping things subjectively, not objectively.

No, i am typing. That does not preclude me from not being a native speaker, which is a phrase to express that ones born language is not the same as the one he is using currently. Would you prefer "native typer" instead?

Yes, i am capable of making mistakes, and i thank you for showing me mine in regards to grammar. this does not mean you can ignore objective facts because i stated them. Unless you can prove they are false, of course.

You have your own mental illness, which is a God-complex. You think you are superhuman and that it is impossible for you to be wrong.

Which would be fine, if you kept it to yourself. But you are not. You are trying to convince others on the internet that you are God and that you know all. In your attempt to make the world a better place, consider looking inward.

Ἰατρέ, θεράπευσον σεαυτόν (Physician, heal thyself)

Incorrect. However i begin to think you are the one with a god complex.

"kaalo'smi lokakshayakrit pravrddho" (I am time, the great one).

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

Subjective means you think something from your point of view, which may or may not be a fact.

Objective means a measurable, provable fact.

You are an idiot. Every measurement ever made needs to be viewed and interpreted by a human being to have meaning. Measurements are not just floating around in the aether, facts unto themselves, without the need for human interpretation.

No, i am not limited to seeing things (not facts) from my own perspective because we have a great invention called communication, which allows sharing of perspectives.

Oh I see. And how MANY people must you communicate and agree with before a measurement becomes a fact?

Two? 100? 10,000? 15 million Americans have all communicated and agreed that Donald Trump should be president of the USA.

6.8 billion humans have communicated and agreed that some sort of God exists. On the basis of numbers of people who communicate and agree, you lose. By a large margin. Only a small fraction of humanity are atheists. How can you prove this tiny bit of our population is "right" and the "majority" are wrong?

You'd better have some pretty good measurements. Maybe you all looked in a telescope and didn't see God? Is that your measured "proof"?

Furthermore, mine or anyone elses perspective is not needed for something to be an objective fact.

The very word "fact" is a human invention. It didn't exist before humans. Do trees know "facts"? Do rocks know "facts". Sorry brother. Only humans can do it because they are a human invention.

Sun was got before any human

How do you know? Did you read that in a book? Did someone tell you? Did you pray to God for that answer? Do you know it by ESP and telepathy with the sun from 4 billion years ago?

We can now measure and proof without a doubt that sun is hot. This is an objective fact.

A truly stupid statement. "Hot" is a fact? No. "Hot" is a personal perspective. You think the Sun is hot because it is hotter than your body temperature. But our yellow sun is "cold" compared to white stars and blue white stars" and quasars and pulsars and other galactic entities. Thus you prove conclusively that you are incapable of knowing the difference between "facts" and "opinions" and "relative perspectives". Everything from disbelief in God to your favorite ice cream to that fight with your mother seems like "facts" to you. Why do you like chocolate? Because it is a "fact" that chocolate is the best, of course!

Yes, i am capable of making mistakes, and i thank you for showing me mine in regards to grammar. this does not mean you can ignore objective facts because i stated them.

Did you make a mistake on grammar? Your "Alzheimer's" mistake was a spelling error. Another proven mistake on your part. Which makes it quite clear you can and do make mistakes on what is an "objective fact". You keep making mistakes right here in IMDb. Who knows how many mistakes you make in the real world. A lot, it would seem. That's why you don't have a lot of money.

this does not mean you can ignore objective facts because i stated them. Unless you can prove they are false, of course.

I have already proven you wrong on your statement that "The Sun is hot". I can do the same thing for any other "fact" you think you "know".

Every single thing you THINK you know is something you read somewhere or something that somebody told you. Those are not facts. Not even close.

Incorrect. However i begin to think you are the one with a god complex.

I don't believe in God or gods. However, unlike you, I am capable of saying the words "I don't know" about most of the universe. You cannot say those words. You think you know it all. Life will keep slapping you in the face until you can admit what you don't know. Until then you will remain penniless and powerless.

Like Descartes, your only hope is to discard EVERYTHING you think you know and start from the beginning, establishing what you really and truly can know for sure. This is the field of epistemology and Descartes' eternally brilliant conclusion was, of course, "Cogito, ergo sum" (I think, therefore I am).

I know you do not understand these words at this time. But with some study and thought, they may eventually make sense to you. And then you will be on the road to wisdom and prosperity and you will finally be able to move out of your parents' house and support yourself.

Good luck

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[–] Strazdamonas 7 years ago

You are an idiot. Every measurement ever made needs to be viewed and interpreted by a human being to have meaning. Measurements are not just floating around in the aether, facts unto themselves, without the need for human interpretation.

Measure is the agreed upon concept to view objective truths. Those truths are facts unto themselves, the question is whether we have measured them or not and whether we take that measures into account when expressing our opinions.

Oh I see. And how MANY people must you communicate and agree with before a measurement becomes a fact?

Two? 100? 10,000? 15 million Americans have all communicated and agreed that Donald Trump should be president of the USA.

6.8 billion humans have communicated and agreed that some sort of God exists. On the basis of numbers of people who communicate and agree, you lose. By a large margin. Only a small fraction of humanity are atheists. How can you prove this tiny bit of our population is "right" and the "majority" are wrong?

You'd better have some pretty good measurements. Maybe you all looked in a telescope and didn't see God? Is that your measured "proof"?

None. Measures can be facts even if no people exist to believe them. This is the beauty of objectivity, it does not require belief.

Yeah, your example of trump only shows that people agreeing does not make something a good idea.

Majority of population is often wrong because majority of population is ignorant of the facts.

I have no need of proof god does not exist. you need proof he does.

The very word "fact" is a human invention. It didn't exist before humans. Do trees know "facts"? Do rocks know "facts". Sorry brother. Only humans can do it because they are a human invention.

Words are used to describe things. they are not things themselves. We use the word "Fact" to describe objective truth.

How do you know? Did you read that in a book? Did someone tell you? Did you pray to God for that answer? Do you know it by ESP and telepathy with the sun from 4 billion years ago?

We can observe the life cycle of stars and thus deduct what has happened to the sun 4 billion years ago. There is no need for god here.

A truly stupid statement. "Hot" is a fact? No. "Hot" is a personal perspective. You think the Sun is hot because it is hotter than your body temperature. But our yellow sun is "cold" compared to white stars and blue white stars" and quasars and pulsars and other galactic entities. Thus you prove conclusively that you are incapable of knowing the difference between "facts" and "opinions" and "relative perspectives". Everything from disbelief in God to your favorite ice cream to that fight with your mother seems like "facts" to you. Why do you like chocolate? Because it is a "fact" that chocolate is the best, of course!

What is hot or not is measurable by amount of energy an object has and sun has a lot of energy, thus it is hot, regardless of perspective.

Did you make a mistake on grammar? Your "Alzheimer's" mistake was a spelling error. Another proven mistake on your part. Which makes it quite clear you can and do make mistakes on what is an "objective fact". You keep making mistakes right here in IMDb. Who knows how many mistakes you make in the real world. A lot, it would seem. That's why you don't have a lot of money.

A spelling error is a grammar mistake. Yes, i do mistakes, like engaging with a clear lunatic like you.

I have already proven you wrong on your statement that "The Sun is hot". I can do the same thing for any other "fact" you think you "know".

The only thing you have proven is your own stupidity.

I don't believe in God or gods. However, unlike you, I am capable of saying the words "I don't know" about most of the universe. You cannot say those words. You think you know it all. Life will keep slapping you in the face until you can admit what you don't know. Until then you will remain penniless and powerless.

Like Descartes, your only hope is to discard EVERYTHING you think you know and start from the beginning, establishing what you really and truly can know for sure. This is the field of epistemology and Descartes' eternally brilliant conclusion was, of course, "Cogito, ergo sum" (I think, therefore I am).

I know you do not understand these words at this time. But with some study and thought, they may eventually make sense to you. And then you will be on the road to wisdom and prosperity and you will finally be able to move out of your parents' house and support yourself.

Good luck

I had a suspicion you were a self made philosopher. I wish for noone to have the burden of knowing you.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 7 years ago

Measure is the agreed upon concept to view objective truths.

You are stopping your brain from asking the important questions:
1. Who is it that has "agreed"?

2. What makes this small group of apes on planet earth the arbiter of universal truth?

3. How can "measurement" be a universal standard of objective truths when measurement itself is subjective, registering differently to different people

4. How can "measurement" reveal universal truth when the very act of measuring changes what you are trying to measure (See Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle)

None. Measures can be facts even if no people exist to believe them.

Illogic. Nothing can be measured if there is nobody to do the measuring.

We can observe the life cycle of stars and thus deduct what has happened to the sun 4 billion years ago. There is no need for god here.

You cannot observe the life cycle of a star. You would have to be billions of years old to do that.

The best you can do is view different stars at what seems to be different stages of their lives and make deductive hypotheses.

But you are missing the point. You, Strazdamonas, have not observed and measured any stars yourself. All you have done is read books and listened to others about the subject. You read, you hear and you believe in stars.

This is no different from those who choose to read other books and listen to other people and thus believe in God.

Even those who DID do the measurements on stars rely on the words of other scientists to formulate their beliefs about other scientific matters.

That is the human way. Read books, listen to others, formulate a belief system, be that scientific, religious, political, social etc.

A spelling error is a grammar mistake. Yes, i do mistakes, like engaging with a clear lunatic like you.

I am not a lunatic. I am just like you only older. Eventually, you will mature in your thinking and stop being so fervently religious in your beliefs about the universe. And as long as you are using the "measurements" other people make to shape your own beliefs, you are being religious.

The only thing you have proven is your own stupidity.

I am not stupid. I was just the way you are now, when I was young. You will grow out of it. You will HAVE to if you want to lead a normal life. Be honest, do you really want to die as an angry old man, shaking his cane at all the terrible God-believers in the world? It really isn't worth it.

Like Descartes, your only hope is to discard EVERYTHING you think you know and start from the beginning, establishing what you really and truly can know for sure. This is the field of epistemology and Descartes' eternally brilliant conclusion was, of course, "Cogito, ergo sum" (I think, therefore I am).

I know you do not understand these words at this time. But with some study and thought, they may eventually make sense to you. And then you will be on the road to wisdom and prosperity and you will finally be able to move out of your parents' house and support yourself. Good luck
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I had a suspicion you were a self made philosopher.

How do the words of Descartes make me a "self-made philosopher"?

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the man. Only Isaac Newton rivals Descartes in pure brilliance. A gifted medical surgeon, Descartes (like Newton) invented his own branch of mathematics as well as an entire philosophical school of thought.

I am extremely intelligent, as are you, but we are nothing compared to Descartes a true timeless genius. I am willing to learn from him. Perhaps one day you will put down your pride and be willing to learn from those who are smarter and wiser and more mature than you are.

Again, good luck.

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[–] Strazdamonas 7 years ago

1. Who is it that has "agreed"?

Irrelevant. Humans.

2. What makes this small group of apes on planet earth the arbiter of universal truth?

It being the only intelligence in existence?

3. How can "measurement" be a universal standard of objective truths when measurement itself is subjective, registering differently to different people

It is not subjective, thats just a lie you made up.

4. How can "measurement" reveal universal truth when the very act of measuring changes what you are trying to measure (See Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle)

It doesnt.

Illogic. Nothing can be measured if there is nobody to do the measuring.

A tree doesnt stop being a certain height just because you are not around to look at it.

That is the human way. Read books, listen to others, formulate a belief system, be that scientific, religious, political, social etc.

Yes, its called accumulation of knowledge.

I am not a lunatic. I am just like you only older. Eventually, you will mature in your thinking and stop being so fervently religious in your beliefs about the universe. And as long as you are using the "measurements" other people make to shape your own beliefs, you are being religious.

You deny being a lunatic and then proceed to prove you are a lunatic.

I am not stupid. I was just the way you are now, when I was young. You will grow out of it. You will HAVE to if you want to lead a normal life. Be honest, do you really want to die as an angry old man, shaking his cane at all the terrible God-believers in the world? It really isn't worth it.

These dam kids and their fancy ideas, why dont you listen to old silly men like me.

I would prefer to die as an old man in a world where there are no god-believers left. Well see about that.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 7 years ago

1. Who is it that has "agreed"?
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Irrelevant. Humans

Obvious not "irrelevant". The majority of humans have agreed that there is a God. Does that make them right?

You obviously cannot "vote" on what is truth. 500 years ago the vote would have been that the earth is flat. 200 years ago the vote would have been that people cannot fly.

"Truth" therefore, can only come from within, as it does with you. You do not believe in God because your internal mental pathways have come to that conclusion.

2. What makes this small group of apes on planet earth the arbiter of universal truth?
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It being the only intelligence in existence?

You are suggesting that "universal truth" will come when we meet aliens? Nice thought.

Surely when that happens we will gain new perspectives. But that still comes down to a vote. Would you accept it if these aliens confirmed that there is a God? I think not. You'd want to wait to hear from more aliens.

Same for those who believe in God. If aliens do not, then religious people would simply assume they are unenlightened and wait for more spiritual aliens to appear.

No matter how many other aliens we meet, people will always believe, first and foremost, what their own intuition tells them. Just as you do.

3. How can "measurement" be a universal standard of objective truths when measurement itself is subjective, registering differently to different people
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It is not subjective, thats just a lie you made up.

Apparently you have never done any carpentry.

4. How can "measurement" reveal universal truth when the very act of measuring changes what you are trying to measure (See Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle)
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It doesnt.

Ah, you are unfamiliar with Heisenberg. Thank you. Now I know some of the limits of your scientific knowledge. Things are making sense here.

Illogic. Nothing can be measured if there is nobody to do the measuring.
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A tree doesnt stop being a certain height just because you are not around to look at it.

How do you know?

A naughty boy can appear to be a good child by always showing good behavior when he is observed. You know about this, I think. As the Heisenberg Principle establishes, the act of measurement always affects the object being measured.

You deny being a lunatic and then proceed to prove you are a lunatic.

You are a child.

I would prefer to die as an old man in a world where there are no god-believers left. Well see about that.

You won't. You only have 90 more years to live and the world is too big to significantly change in that time.

Feel free to mention any facts you like.
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Ok lets play. Earth is round. Have you circumvented earth? Have you only read this? Perhaps you dont believe earth is round?

I do not "believe" in anything. Not God. Not round earth nor anything else. I am not religious. All cosmic ideas such as these are theories.

I consider the spherical nature of planet earth to be a theory which has much evidence for it. But some against it. 500 years ago most people believed the earth was flat. Was the entire population stupid? No. But new evidence has come in since then.

My working hypothesis is that the earth is round, but that is always subject to modification by further evidence coming in. An intelligent person is ALWAYS open to new evidence. Otherwise you are a "believer".

If you "believe" in something, it means you are religious. It means you already know "truth" and will never change your opinion despite any new evidence that comes in. That's why people believe in God today. They do not accept new evidence.

So, the real question is- Do YOU accept new evidence? Are you capable of changing your long-held, cherished opinions as you learn more about the world? That is the real philosophical issue in life that you are currently dealing with.

You have shown the occasional capacity to learn from someone who knows more than you (such as regarding primate evolution). I encourage you to develop that skill. It will serve you well, as it has served me.

One last and final time to you: Good luck. (which means good bye)

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[–] christinkerfan 8 years ago

Do you have any proof he doesn't exist? Proof, not theories.

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

I dont need any. You need proof it exists first.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

Do you have any proof he doesn't exist? Proof, not theories.

There you go again, Strazdamonas.

You willingly choose to talk and debate with people who aren't atheists and are therefore insane. Why would you do that?

You wouldn't. You are demonstrating that you are not really such a hard-core atheist after all. You are showing that your desire to argue is stronger than your atheism.

If you were REALLY an atheist you would never enter any conversation with mentally ill people who think "God" is a possibility. But you keep doing it. Over and over and over.

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

Not sure why you quited that message twice, given that both times it remained still wrong. One needs to prove something exist, without such proof it can be dismissed without requiring evidence. Since you have no proof of god of your choice, it can be dismissed without proof otherwise.

Wait, so are you saying that people should never interact with mentally ill? In my opinion thats inhuman treatment of others.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

One needs to prove something exist, without such proof it can be dismissed without requiring evidence.

Who told you that? God?

If not then it is something you told yourself. And, as you have already proven, you can make mistakes.

Since you have no proof of god of your choice, it can be dismissed without proof otherwise.

I do not believe in God or gods.

However, I know that I am a limited, evolved ape who can make mistakes. I know I am human and I have no access to universal truth. You would be well to admit the same about yourself.

Wait, so are you saying that people should never interact with mentally ill? In my opinion thats inhuman treatment of others.

I am interacting with you.

Perhaps you are in an institution. Perhaps not. I know that I would not want to meet you in person. Your God complex might drive you to attack me and smite me down. Since you think you cannot make a mistake, there would be nothing to stop you from doing this. I have seen others like you who act this way. You are scary.

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

Who told you that? God?

If not then it is something you told yourself. And, as you have already proven, you can make mistakes.

Basic logic did. Of something can be claimed without proof them i am god. This is illogical, therefore proof is needed to make a positive statement. Statement made without proof can be dismissed without proof.

I do not believe in God or gods.

However, I know that I am a limited, evolved ape who can make mistakes. I know I am human and I have no access to universal truth. You would be well to admit the same about yourself.

Congratulations. You do have access to universal truths, and the good thing about them is you dont have to believe in them for them to be true.

I am interacting with you.

Perhaps you are in an institution. Perhaps not. I know that I would not want to meet you in person. Your God complex might drive you to attack me and smite me down. Since you think you cannot make a mistake, there would be nothing to stop you from doing this. I have seen others like you who act this way. You are scary.

Well played.

Alas i am also interacting with you.

There is no need to fear me, id fear your caretaker nurse more though, clearly the pills he gives you does not make you any better.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

Who told you that? God?
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Basic logic did.

Yes, "basic logic" which is just a part of your ape brain. You are one small animal on one small planet in a limitless universe. But your ape brain knows universal truth? ha ha

Delusions of godhood. Sorry. You are not special. You are an ape. (Unless you don't believe in evolution and that you are a special creation of God. Are you a special creation of God? Or are you an ape?

Congratulations. You do have access to universal truths

How do you know? Because someone on the internet says something it is "universal truth"?

No. I am an ape. You are an ape. We eat, we poop, we fart like any other primate on the face of the earth. We are not God or god-like beings. We are limited, stupid animals stuck on the planet earth and unable to see much else of the universe than that.

Once you face that "truth" you will be able to start your life and stop being so unhappy that nothing in the world works out the way your "facts" tell you they should work.

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[–] Strazdamonas 7 years ago

Yes, "basic logic" which is just a part of your ape brain. You are one small animal on one small planet in a limitless universe. But your ape brain knows universal truth? ha ha

Yeah, its nothing but only the smartest thing in the known universe. such useless apparatus, we should remove it from people.

Delusions of godhood. Sorry. You are not special. You are an ape.

Actually humans were never apes. Both humans and Apes evolved from common ancestors who were not apes. This is a common misconception though and i dont expect a person that spends more time posting *beep* philosophy on IMDB boards than actually thinking to know that.

Once you face that "truth" you will be able to start your life and stop being so unhappy that nothing in the world works out the way your "facts" tell you they should work.

Actually everything works out the way facts tell they do. Even your moronic ranting here is explained by said facts. As much as i wish these facts were incorrect, they are not, and thus the world has people like you.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 7 years ago

Yeah, its nothing but only the smartest thing in the known universe. such useless apparatus, we should remove it from people.

I do not understand the meaning of this sentence.

Actually humans were never apes. Both humans and Apes evolved from common ancestors who were not apes.

Incorrect. Apes diverged from monkeys about 25 million years ago http://www.livescience.com/32029-oldest-monkey-fossil-found.html

Humans diverged from apes around 7-8 million years ago. http://phys.org/news/2012-08-genetic-humans-great-apes-diverged.html
Thus for 17 million years our ancestors were apes.

Where you are confused is in thinking we humans diverged from "modern" great apes such as bonobos, chimps, gorillas and oranguatans. These apes have, of course evolved in the past 8 million years just as humans have (though humans have changed more).

But our ancestors from 17-8 million years ago were still apes, just as they were still primates, mammals, vertebrates and animals.

Actually everything works out the way facts tell they do. Even your moronic ranting here is explained by said facts.

You have very carefully avoided mentioning any "facts" in here. I think you know how easily all your facts can be shown to be just your opinions or stuff you were told by other people.

Feel free to mention any facts you like. Just be sure you didn't read them in a book or online or hear it from a teacher. They have to come from your own personal measurements of the world.

Otherwise they are not facts, they are just religion passed from one person to another. Will be waiting for those "facts".

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[–] Strazdamonas 7 years ago

I do not understand the meaning of this sentence.

I was sarcastic pointing out that you just claimed the smartest thing in known universe is just useless apparatus.

But our ancestors from 17-8 million years ago were still apes, just as they were still primates, mammals, vertebrates and animals.

Fair enough, i was incorrect in this.

I think you know how easily all your facts can be shown to be just your opinions or stuff you were told by other people.

Facts are irrelevant of opinions and who tells them. If they are facts they are going to be true regardless if i tell them or somone else did.

Feel free to mention any facts you like.

Ok lets play. Earth is round. Have you circumvented earth? Have you only read this? Perhaps you dont believe earth is round?

Otherwise they are not facts, they are just religion passed from one person to another. Will be waiting for those "facts".

Oh i get it now. I dont remember the name of this belief system so perhaps youll help me there. you clearly believe anything not measured by yourself to be false. Good luck with that. I do hope you dont apply this to your daily life since you would have to abandon pretty much all modern technology.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] nephihaha 8 years ago

Most Spielberg films* cause me to lose my lunch.

Not all mind but this included.

--
It's not "Sci-Fi", it's "SF"!

"Calvinism is a very liberal religious ethos." - Truekiwijoker

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[–] jajceboy 7 years ago

Steven Spielberg is not religious by any means. He's often said he has struggled with his religion. That doesn't make anyone religious!

I'm not sure what role religion played in this movie? But it didn't make my lose my religion, that happened a long time ago. I'm still struggling with it.

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