MovieChat Forums > Digimon: Digital Monsters (1999) Discussion > I Know This'll Sound Blasphemous

I Know This'll Sound Blasphemous

posted 13 years ago by whitly_12
17 replies | jump to latest

But Digimon Zero-Two was a tiring season. I like the introduction of Armour Digivolution, DNA Digivolution and the 3-dimensional villain archetype that's stayed with the franchise since (hence why "Genesis of Evil" is such a fantastic episode,) but far too often the show is unbalanced and inconsistent.

Why is Yolei so off-the-wall energetic all the time?

Why is Davis dumb as nails?

Why is Cody-who's easily the most developed of the newer kids outside of Ken-given a character arc with key moments of development that surface at such awkward times?

Why is TK so afraid of losing Patamon again if there was no indication of this fear in Digimon Adventure?

Come to think of it, why are TK and Kari even in this season to begin with?

Why is Shakkoumon a porcelain coffee-maker with wings?

Why does Yolei have the most-profound Champion Digivolution, and why do Ken and Davis have the most-profound DNA Digivolution? Shouldn't all of these moments be significant and profound?

These are just a few of the issues I have with this season. I've also never understood the whole deal with BlackWargreymon, especially when it seems like he doesn't even understand what he wants with his life in the first place. That whole "I must destroy the Destiny Stones" thing was so formulaic and repetitive that it bothered me even as a kid, such to the point that I only stayed with the show in hopes that it'd just be over with and I could start watching the good stuff again. And even watching it again as an adult, I literally groaned when that whole ordeal ended up going nowhere. Call me heartless, but I felt no remorse when the guy sacrificed his life to seal off the gate to the Digital World, particularly because I never liked him to begin with.

As far as other episodes go, the whole "Dark Ocean" thing seemed unnecessary: why abandon the Dagomon (I think that's how it's spelled) sub-plot yet keep referencing it throughout? Why banish Daemon to the Dark Ocean when he could've served as a great villain and helped to explain how the Dark Spores worked? Why keep referencing the Dark Ocean to begin with if every episode dealing with it (sans Genesis of Evil) goes absolutely nowhere in the season as a whole?

I also find that the show's attempts to limit the older kids were forced, especially since they weren't as integral to the main story as the newer kids were. Not to mention that the whole "does anyone remember the Digital World" debate that kept switching from yes to no was incredibly-confusing and contradictory to the events that took place in the previous season. I won't mention the Epilogue here, particularly because it never bothered me as much as most, but that was still pretty unnecessary.

It's not that I don't like Digimon Zero-Two, it's just that I think it's very-overrated and not worth half the praise fans give it. It seems like almost every episode rushes along its attempts at story so that it can show us the same action scenes from various angles, most of them not all too exciting to begin with. And even then, the story points themselves are weak and frequently littered with plotholes. Not to mention that I couldn't give a crap about most of the "exposition" pieces that are used to connect the Digital World to the bigger world as a whole, as they're drawn out and way too textbooky to really keep my interest for long.

That's my take on this season. Feel free to counter my points if you wish, but just remember that I've seen much of the Japanese version of the show and they still haven't swayed me. That, and I still do enjoy this season for its entertainment value...

[–] PineappleWineapple 12 years ago

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks The Dark Ocean was pointless. It had no real use, and episode thirteen made me unable to see Hikari as a strong heroine. Episode seven contributed to this as well, but that didn't involve The Dark Ocean, so it's not entirely relevent.

Don't worry. Your post doesn't sound blasphemous. You're entitled to your opinion. To be honest, I felt that Adventure 02 had more flaws than could really be overlooked. I liked it for nostalgia reasons (and the novelty of seeing older versions of the original cast), but having seen it very recently, I've changed my mind. I had no problem with the older children having smaller roles, or the newer children being introduced, or the ability to travel between the two worlds, Heck! I even adored the epilogue! but the season had a lot of flaws. While I don't agree with your points to the T, they're pretty good on the whole

[–] whitly_12 12 years ago

Oh, I just mentioned that because I know how popular the season is. There are a lot of things in it that I like (the final confrontation with MaloMyotismon was beyond awesome, Ken's backstory always makes me cry, Oikawa is the only villain in the franchise whose death also makes me cry,) it's just a mess in the story department (I remember watching a retrospective on YouTube that mentioned that Digimon: Zero-Two had something like 2 directors and 14 writers working on it, so that could explain the problems it had.) It's also interesting that, given the flak it gets from fans for being a "Power Rangers rip-off," I loved Digimon Frontier and its thematic blends of Shinto-environmentalism and spiritual awakening. It's probably the only season in the franchise, that I've seen, to give equal development to each of its characters, especially with Tommy and his inferiority-complex (his problems with bullying are something I would've liked to see TK struggle with in the first season, but it's a little late for that.)

I'm surprised by your response, though. I was waiting for someone to get pissed-off and attempt to flame me down. I guess I'm being too optimistic, though...

[–] PineappleWineapple 12 years ago

I agree with you about Ken's backstory and Oikawa's death, and sort of on the confrontation with MaloMyotismon (I liked it that he was killed by optimism, but the way it was done looked silly IMHO) I also agree that the number of writing staff was probably the season's downfall. As for Frontier, I'll admit that I personally find the henshin heroes concept a bit creepy (although I'm definately in the minority there), but it did have good character development.

I'm glad to know my response pleasantly surprised you I was pleasantly surprised by the responses to my thread on the epilogue. Although some claimed not to like it very much, everyone has been respectful so far. I just wonder if my hatred of the damsel creating dark ocean will be respected as much Don't worry about being flamed

[–] yamidarknessarchfiend 12 years ago

Yolei being hyperactive might just be her personality. Davis being dumb as nails is something that shows up in several anime and manga series. No real explanation for it but something that keeps appearing. Think of the main heroes of Dragonball, One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, Psyren and several other series.

Just the two thoughts I came up with after reading the post.

[–] whitly_12 12 years ago

It's not just that. If they had consistent character-arcs, I'd be fine with their personality traits. But they don't, so it's an issue.

For the record, I'm actually impartial to Yolei. She'd have been fine if her arc weren't so wobbly and all-over the place...

[–] chrombot 12 years ago

Season 2 certainly was a mess. Season 1 may have been simple, but it worked, nothing got in it's way.
Season 2 just tries to up the ante in the story too much. It seems to drag on in the beginning, and then things move too quickly near the end, poor flow.
Season 2 was absolutely about selling toys. Season 1, obviously was too, but it was more of a gamble. Season 1 was ready to end after devimon, then it was a hit, then the toys came about. It was more of a tie-in to the virtual pets.
Season 2, things were planned from the get-go to selling the toys. Making characters on screen match the toys. They had difficulties making some of the season 1 characters into toys. They weren't going to have this problem in season 2.
Paildramon is literally an ex-veemon figure with a stingmon figure attached to it. Black wargreymon, they already had the molds of wargreymon, easy enough to produce them in black. Armor digivolving are snap accessorices to the digimon.

So, we got this big ole mess of things they wanted to cram into the show, as well as making it a sequel to season 1, and this is what we ended up with.
I like season 2, not as much as 1, but I see the marketing in season 2 much more than season 1. I think the dip in quality shows.

[–] Takedi21 11 years ago

Season 2 certainly was a mess. Season 1 may have been simple, but it worked, nothing got in it's way.
Season 2 just tries to up the ante in the story too much. It seems to drag on in the beginning, and then things move too quickly near the end, poor flow.
Season 2 was absolutely about selling toys. Season 1, obviously was too, but it was more of a gamble. Season 1 was ready to end after devimon, then it was a hit, then the toys came about. It was more of a tie-in to the virtual pets.
Season 2, things were planned from the get-go to selling the toys. Making characters on screen match the toys. They had difficulties making some of the season 1 characters into toys. They weren't going to have this problem in season 2.
Paildramon is literally an ex-veemon figure with a stingmon figure attached to it. Black wargreymon, they already had the molds of wargreymon, easy enough to produce them in black. Armor digivolving are snap accessorices to the digimon.

So, we got this big ole mess of things they wanted to cram into the show, as well as making it a sequel to season 1, and this is what we ended up with.
I like season 2, not as much as 1, but I see the marketing in season 2 much more than season 1. I think the dip in quality shows.

Season 3 did the whole advertising of the merchandise thing ALOT better than season 2 did! They did an excellent job of integrating the Digimon playing cards into the story, and (not gonna lie) this season got me into the card game & buying all other sorts of digimon toys/merchandise much better than the previous 2 seasons did.

I think it's cause the head writer on Tamers never lost sight on what's important at the end of the day: to create a very strong, intelligent, well-written story that can stand the test of time. That should always be the 1st, number 1 priority over selling toys & merchandise.

Ex-girlfriend, you can't have him!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TThHPHU4oJY

[–] crd2082 12 years ago

I'd like to add a few things to this argument.

Firstly, I agree with the OP. Season 2 was a mess. It was so much of a mess that I consider it an embarrassment to the first season, which is probably one of the best character-driven children stories I'd ever had the pleasure to watch.

There is so much wrong with the second season that I don't feel like going into all of the details. But I recently finished watching the first and second seasons of digimon and there are some things that particularly stand out and bother me.

One point that probably bothers me more than any other is how easy the new kids had it. The first digidestined group had to wander through desserts and snow, going for long periods of time not knowing when there next meal was and half the time having to catch their dinner, all the while being constantly attacked by random digimon and having no idea what was going on most of the time.

These new kids were able to go through the gate whenever they felt like it. Most of the time they were sleeping in their own beds and were always home for dinner after battles. I understand that by now the time dilapidation between the digital world and real world no longer existed and they had other obligations, but it all just seemed to easy. When you know that the kids will be back in time for dinner, there is no real sense of urgency between battles and such. That's how it felt to me.

And the episode that REALLY urked me was when Yolei didn't feel like going into the digital world to help the kids fight to get MetalGreymon from under the Kaiser's control, and opted to stay behind. She didn't FEEL like it! What was worse was that the others told her it was fine not to go if she didn't feel like it. What kind of crap is that? That garbage never would have happened in the first season. Once again, the sense of urgency diminishes when the viewer knows a kid can just stay behind from a battle.

And what the hell was up with TK and Kari? They were part of the original digidestined team, yet they were both deemed pretty much useless even before the halfway mark of the season. There was no development between the two of them, and in fact their characters seemed to go backwards as the story developed. In the second to last episode, TK and Kari cowered upon watching Mummymon get killed by BelialVamdemon. This was the same Kari that walked up to Machinedramon with no fear after all the other digimon had been defeated. The same TK that kept hope and got his crest to glow even though he was FALLING TO HIS DEATH!

[–] elsporko 12 years ago

In the first season Mimi split the group because she didn't feel like fighting anymore. Although her feelings were built up better, but it is understandable for somebody in a life and death fighting situation to have mental hang ups and reservations about constantly going into battle. Real life soldiers go through this and most of them aren't middle school aged girls.

I think season 2 had good potential but fell into formulaic writing, partially do to the premise that allowed them to return home. The first season had to constantly be moving forward because there was no reason not to. In the second season having three episodes in a row where an older kid comes along for the ride and nothing really happens could easily be done.

It also doesn't help that the season starts of slowly and many interesting ideas are underdeveloped

[–] icymark 12 years ago

While watching season 2, it'll get tedious.. Still not bad though. I really did not like the episodes where they traveled the world..

http://companyidyll.bandcamp.com/track/i-cant

[–] sangos_counterpart 11 years ago

In the first season Mimi split the group because she didn't feel like fighting anymore. Although her feelings were built up better, but it is understandable for somebody in a life and death fighting situation to have mental hang ups and reservations about constantly going into battle. Real life soldiers go through this and most of them aren't middle school aged girls.

To be fair, Mimi split off from the group for a much more compelling reason than "not feeling like fighting anymore." As others have mentioned, the original digidestined were put through a lot in the digital world. She removed herself from battle because she didn't believe in violence anymore. She valued life, and was really affected by the deaths of the digimon who had sacrificed their lives for them. It was less "I'm going to stay behind and chill out," and more "I'm making a moral stand/don't want to endanger Palmon."

And her and Joe were actually doing worthwhile things when they were separate from the group. They basically formed a back-up army, and also extended kindness to former villains, such as Ogremon.

I don't think the OP is blasphemous at all. I had no idea people actually liked Season 2. For me, I only enjoyed it because I liked seeing what the original kids were up to. It was really dumb for the Season 1 characters to be taken out of the action. They had much more experience with battle, so it's weird they weren't more involved. I get that their digimon weren't able to digivolve past the champion level, and that the dark spires occasionally prevented them from even achieving that, but still... I feel like those kids would have still felt a strong obligation to protect the digital world. I couldn't see them just sitting back and letting their digimon companions remain vulnerable out there.

I honestly think that Season 2 should have had TK as the leader. Why was Davis the leader again? He was not nearly as good a leader as Tai was because he was so much more boneheaded. The fact that Davis's incompetence became a running joke among the characters shows how different he was from Tai. Although Tai was sometimes an idiot, he really did have great leadership skills, was a good strategist, and earned the respect from everyone -- even Matt. Davis should have had a different character design so that he wasn't just a poser version of Tai. I also thought his one-sided rivalry with TK was really dumb. It was a shame that TK and Kari were essentially wasted in Season 2, and even worse, Kari was reduced to being the Mary Sue girl that all the guys wanted. She's not a love interest. She's the 8th child! The owner of the crest of light! The Davis/TK/Kari thing from Season 2 made me really happy that Season 1 never resorted to that type of storytelling. And Gatoman should not have depowered by losing her tail ring.

Why would a banana grab another banana? Those are the kind of questions I don't want to answer.

[–] chrombot 12 years ago

Yea, Yolei, staying behind was pretty bad. Season 1 everyone did things out of obligation and survival. Season 2 seemed to be like a game for the kids. The digital world needs saving, but they still want kids watching the show to know homework comes first.

[–] Doc_Horrib-El 12 years ago

While there are a lot of annoying things about the second season, there are a lot of redeeming moments.

I loathed the Digimon Emperor storyline but bawled like a baby during Ken's flashback episode where he searches for Wormmon. There were a lot of stupid pointless moments and stories but boy when they wanted to convey emotion.. they *beep* nailed it. Oikawa's story was amazing, Ken's brother's death was perfect, and BlackWarGreymon's sacrifice was so beautiful.

The reveal of Myotismon being behind all the events of Season 2 was shocking.. but I felt like they should have dealt with the Dark Ocean a little more.. and a little better.

Screw destiny... right in the face.

H.of.L

[–] kch78094 12 years ago

I liked Season 2 at the time but watching it recently, I realise now how many flaws it had.
- Cannot stand Davis and Yolei. Don't understand why TK and Kari were pushed aside by these two idiots since they were the original digidestined. Also didn't understand why the older ones didn't get involved more. It just seemed like each week had 1 old character and all the new characters and then next week they had a different older character.
- I wish that they became trapped like Season 1 and couldn't return each day to the real world. It would also give a better reason for why the older characters weren't there often.
- I think the Digimon Emperor storyline was too long. The last part also seemed very rushed and there were way too many storylines and villains coming in.
- The Dark Ocean should have been shown more and actually find out who the shadowed digimon was.
- I don't care too much now about couples but they should have let the audience predict who will end up together.
- Don't like how they hated killing digimon since in Season 1 they killed many digimon.

[–] Takedi21 11 years ago

- Don't like how they hated killing digimon since in Season 1 they killed many digimon.

But these weren't the season 1 kids. And it made sense for the season 2 kids to hate the idea of killing real digimon since they spent 2/3 of the season freeing good corrupted real digimon from dark rings/spirals & destroying fake control spire digimon.

Mimi's pacifism arc was obviously a lot better written & well executed than Cody and Yolei's pacifism arcs were.

Ex-girlfriend, you can't have him!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TThHPHU4oJY

[–] Ziltonn 12 years ago

One of my biggest gripes with 02 is a simple one: their crests are gone. As a result, Patamon and Gatomon were a LOT weaker(/useless) compared to 01. I appreciate why they were gone, but Azulongmon went on to say that the crests of Light and Hope were different, it would have been nice if they used this to get them back to TK & Kari somehow. Maybe by saying they were more powerful and weren't completely consumed like the others. Then maybe Seraphimon & Magnadramon would have made an appearance and have been some use.

[–] popiethepopester 11 years ago

Zero Two was easily the worst of the original four seasons.