MovieChat Forums > Memento (2001) Discussion > What makes this film great? (not a troll...

What makes this film great? (not a trolling post, not what you think)

posted 10 years ago by soulsk8ter225
20 replies | jump to latest

I'm curious, since there is an edit for this film that's out where the sequences are shown in chronological order... if somebody sees the film that way, although obviously a lot of the luster is lost because it was intentionally written to be in the current order that it is, is this still a very gripping story?

Here's the point I really want to arrive at... could there be ten different films made with people who have anterograde amnesia where they are all shot like Memento, but with different story lines and different "twists" that are difficult to realize? Basically, I'm asking if this film style could be thrown at us multiple times and still be just as good, or is it this specific character and story arc that only makes this what it is?

For example, Vantage Point is another film where the audience only knows as much as the character. But because it obviously is a different story and is shot differently, it is not necessarily as compelling as Nolan's film.

Should there be more films in this vein? Is it enticing to watch? Can it work more often than not, unlike that of the recent "found footage" kind of films? Or is Memento special for all the right reasons, and nothing else of this type can come close to it?

** Rest in peace, Timothy Volkert (1988 - 2003) **

[–] jeffro_03 10 years ago

Who knew Christopher Nolan before this film? Brilliant to tell the story backwards because the guy can't remember sh*t. It's pretty much that simple.

[–] soulsk8ter225 10 years ago

So my question then becomes could somebody make another film with the same premise (dude with anterograde amnesia), work with the same kinds of edits, and make as good of a film, even if it's not an original? Or was this story just molded so well that nothing else could duplicate its... cult-ness?

** Rest in peace, Timothy Volkert (1988 - 2003) **

[–] the-author 10 years ago

There are one or two films like this. One was made in Germany, Irreversible (I think). You can watch it on Youtube. Not in the same class, but the story is revealed in a similar manner. There is a Japanese or Korean film too about a girl who has been murdered that goes backwards. Doesn't Dead Girl with Brittany Murphy start with her corpse and go backwards? Good film.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] Degree7 9 years ago

Are you talking about Gaspar Noe's Irréversible (French, not German) and Kurosawa's Rashomon? (Japanese).

~ I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Degree7 9 years ago

Wtf are you blabbering on about?

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

[–] romefan123 10 years ago

Soundtrack is haunting, adds to the flavor of the film.

"You can just stand there, ... and let him kick your ass!"
--Sensei Terry Silver Karate Kid III

[–] Flabulous 10 years ago

That's a very good question, and makes me suspect you are involved in filmmaking yourself. I have only come across a handful of people on imdb with the vision to ask about manipulating a film's variables.

In my opinion, there are a few main factors in why others rate this film as great. I only think 1) and 3) are valid though.

1) Novel narrative structure. Most importantly, this film pushed the envelope in non-chronological storytelling. And it's why so film theory books reference Memento when tackling this subject. I challenge you to find a movie that's as creative as this in non-chronological storytelling.

2) Complexity. Nolan is known for his complex, cerebral plots, and I know that many people find it hard to keep up. This I feel has become a kind of test by which movie-goers prove to themselves they are clever enough.

3) Underdog filmmaker. This was his first properly-budgeted attempt at a feature-length film, and he showed everyone how innovative stories can break through the fierce competition of Hollywood. Similar to Reservoir Dogs. Both Nolan and Tarantino leveraged their creative limitations.

To answer your other question, yes, I think you could use this template of memory-inhibited-detective to backwards-tell a story with a different mystery and a different theme (why not?), but anyone who does so would be rightly jumped on for plagiarizing a novel idea.

I think there are big flaws in this film, but it's certainly an inspiring piece of work to aspiring storytellers.

[–] soulsk8ter225 10 years ago

Thanks man, I'm good with those answers!

** Rest in peace, Timothy Volkert (1988 - 2003) **

[–] Flabulous 10 years ago

No probs. Again, good question, got me thinking!

[–] RubenTarantino 9 years ago

I very much liked your insight. And I would like to tell me, what flaws you think this film had.

[–] Flabulous 9 years ago

Glad it was of use! Sure, but before I tell you, I have to say that these are only my opinions - even a flawed film can be loved dearly by someone, and even if it's The Human Centipede. It's subjective, that's my point.

Anyway, the main flaw is obvious and exactly the thing Nolan is most criticised for - it's too complicated! The cocktail of mixed chronologies - straight, flashbacks, and reverse made it difficult to easily digest the information, especially at speed. In my eyes, a film should be comprehended on first viewing.

But, on perhaps a more important point, it suffered from too much plot. When the external events don't harmoniously track the internal change of the protagonist, there is an unbalance of plot and character. Here, much of the plot was mere puzzle solving with little heart, sometimes hitting the same internal beat (and thus no progression). Don't get me wrong, detective films are naturally more cerebral, but there needs to be internal transforming to prevent it merely being an elaborate sudoku puzzle.

For example, Leonard is clearly very confused and paranoid throughout, but what was his climactic self-revelation, the most profound insight into his own character that everything beforehand was leading to? He momentarily realises that he is trapped in this mental condition, unable to feel satisfied with the deaths of his wife's killers, and so resolves to continue to solve an unending puzzle in order to give his life purpose. His problem, in other words, is that he's in denial - he can't accept that he's already completed his mission. Facing this truth is therefore the internal track of the film. But how many of the events actually track this internal change? Very few. The plot-to-character ratio was lopsided.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Flabulous 9 years ago

Well I would love to totally dismantle your arguments, but I fear you'd run off as soon as you realise how weak your position is!

[–] the-author 9 years ago

Three stories come to mind about amnesia:
1. The October Man
2. The Scarf
3. Alfred Hitchcock's 'Premonition'.
You'll be surprised how Memento builds on all of these previous works.

Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/

[–] TompaDompa 9 years ago

The movie is told in such a way that keeping up with what's going on is something of a mental exercise, and (to me, at least) it's engaging enough to motivate one to do so. Watching it is intellectually stimulating, and that's definitely a good thing.

It's far from the only movie to do so, but I think it's the one that does it best. Primer (2004) is even more complex in its storytelling, but that works to its disadvantage (it gets just a little too difficult to keep up, which is somewhat discouraging). Coherence (2013) is a bit too easy to follow, so it isn't as satisfying to actually manage to do so. Memento (2000) strikes just the right balance (of course, just because it's the right balance to me doesn't mean it is to everyone).

Don't listen to the negative ones; their arguments are irrational.

[–] njiuma 9 years ago

...people who have anterograde amnesia...

- while "Pulp Fiction", "Reservoir Dogs" etc. aren't about people who have anterograde amnesia, they are shot using non-linear editing, so that might help...?

"If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make it your signature!"

[–] goodbyeenemyairship 9 years ago

I would be interested in seeing the edit where the story is told in chronological order, but only because I've seen it the original way and love the film so much.

I don't think the story would be as effective, however.

It's reverse order motif is effective for putting the audience in the same dilemma as the main character, Lenny.

[–] amanda716 9 years ago

I think that you raise an interesting question, and I'm going to start with a disclaimer - this is my favorite film, so it's hard for me to see the wrong.

I've watched the chronological edit, and still found it an interesting story, though, admittedly, my mind was piecing things together as I had originally seen it. I do think that the chronological version doesn't stand up to the final edit. I think that seeing the story through an amnesiac's eyes is what makes it special.

Someone in another comment brought up Irreversible, which is another film that I appreciate, but not on the same level as Memento. That may be for other reasons, and parts of the edit of that movie make me physically ill, but I appreciate it all the same. It may be personal preference that draws me to this type of storytelling, as I also appreciate stories with unreliable narrators in general.

With that thought, I think that unreliable narrators is probably the most general genre in which Memento belongs. The most recent film of that type that I can think of is Gone Girl, which I also liked.

So, long winded comment short, I think that Memento is special. However, I don't think that it is so special that no other film can compare to it. It does have a good mix of everything that makes it rise above the rest.

[–] soulsk8ter225 9 years ago

You're right, "unreliable narrators" is a good term. With that, I recommend people watch Lucky Number Slevin if they haven't seen it yet. Very underrated film, in my opinion. Gone Girl also fits there very well, though I tend to think the main character was. Now You See Me might even fit in there as well, though it's more of a showy film rather than being of much substance.

** Rest in peace, Timothy Volkert (1988 - 2003) **