MovieChat Forums > Fainaru fantajî VII (1997) Discussion > I wish for a remake (spoiler)

I wish for a remake (spoiler)


Here's my little story with this game. I just finished it. I played fast (less than 40 hours) using a playstation 2 and a PS1 memory card. Cloud is only about 4000 HP and the two others (Red and Barret) neither of them have great HP power. I was able to defeat Sephiroth by playing ultra defensive. Each of my three characters are equipped with "barrier" + "all" materia, "restore" + "all", "revive" + "all", deathblow and some summons. After Sephiroth do his Super Nova thing I immediately use a megalixir. I did beat the game twice from the last north cave save and Sephiroth is quite easy to beat when you are prepared.

I watched a couple of youtube video and some players have ridiculously strong characters, that make them win effortlessly each battles. I would be happy to play the game from the start again but here's my problem: Aeris death. I was only little shocked when I saw Sephiroth killed her with his long sword, because from there I played last 2 discs with the hope that we would have a quest to bring her back... and guess what, there's nothing! She's dead and won't return. I searched the web to find information about bringing back Aeris to life but got only false rumors, and I finaly understood that if you don't use special cheats you can't resurrect her. I would have buy a strategic guide and fully play the game again, find all weapons and materia, get all the chocobos and everything... but, talk about killing a character and ruin a great game!

My only wish is they remake the game (graphically) and change only little things here and there BUT provide a quest to bring Aeris back to life! Otherwise, it's a nonsense to me to give the game a second try. But I would really like to play it again.

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[deleted]

Then, she could have been only an escort rather than a playable character. Or if only players who really want to bring her back to life were able to do it, that would be an option.

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The reason that her death meant so much and was so unexpected is that she WAS a playable character. if she was "just an escort," than her death would not have meant as much; she wouldn't have felt like part of the team as much. it's hard to explain, but the fact that you use her and play as her and become attached to her character makes her death scene all the more emotional and powerful

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I understand your point. But I did not realise her death until the end, because in a Final Fantasy everything can happen. Can a death scene really mean that much?

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Absolutely. The creators actually were very careful in handling Aeris's death scene the way they did. They really emphasised the point that death can happen to anyone, at any time, just like in real life. It was really unfair for Aeris to be killed in such a terrible way, but life isn't fair. Aeris's death did a great job of showing that.

I think you can tell Aeris is not going to come back just by looking at the way her death scene is done. It would be a really bad decision to resurrect her at all. Besides, having Aeris die and never come back didn't mean she was never seen again - they made Crisis Core and all those games which feature Aeris when she was younger (good old prequels lol).

Aeris's death didn't ruin the game at all; it only made it better. Look how many fans actually shed tears during that scene! That's what a great story is designed to do; inspire emotion and empathy from the audience. It's a real achievement for the game that it got so many players mourning for Aeris along with Cloud and the others.


nobody ever earned any wages by being pessimistic.

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I don't think drama fits with the surrealistic elements of this game. It's like eating pizza with vegetables. I did not know Final Fantasy creators wanted to make their audience cry.


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pizza with vegetables? that's a terrible analogy for a terrible point.

you don't think that drama fits with the elements of the final fantasy series. What do you think is going on then? Drama is a major element in all of the games. drama is prevalent everywhere.

besides, why would they kill her if they didn't want it to mean anything? in every piece of literature, main characters don't just die for no reason whatsoever. if there is a death scene in something then there is a underlying reason for that death scene. and in Aerith's case, her meaning was at the very least twofold. it was to show Avalanche what exactly they were up against. that they should be taking their mission seriously. It also gave them guidance. when Bugenhagen takes them to the Ancient City, they see that Aerith was guiding them along even though she was dead, that the Holy Materia would still play a role in the end. For a third reason, Aerith's death helped to define Cloud's sanity. directly after the fight with Jenova after Aerith's death, Sephiroth tells Cloud that he is a puppet. Cloud had been fighting that realization for a long time beforehand, and he finally gets the answers he needs while he and Tifa are immersed within the lifestream.

Her death was a powerful moment in the game as well as the overall Final Fantasy series.

I don't see how you can argue that there is no drama in the games. if there were no drama, like you suggest, then there would be no substance whatsoever in any of the games storylines. it is the drama that makes each and every game special.

and besides, our reactions to her death (crying, anger) only shows us how emotionally invested we are within the games. if we felt nothing towards any element in the game then we wouldn't be playing them in the first place.

If they do do a remake (which i really really hope that they don't, one of the makers even said that it will be close to impossible to remake it just because of the amount of graphics needed to do so, that there are so many towns and so many different elements in the story that it will be very difficult to make all of them in the currently technology just because the files will be so huge) then they better not revive Aeith, because then her death really would have meant nothing at all.

besides, no one lives forever.

"This conversation is stupid. i'm hungry. where's the food?" - Tucker

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But what about satisfaction, fun and power?

When I think about Gold Saucer, all the magic and the ultimate satisfying ending moment with the last Cloud's limit beating the icon villain of the Final Fantasy series, I then think Aeris death ruined the game and made it unreplayable.

I think creators should not have added the drama ingredient to FFVII, then, maybe it could have been number one best selling game of playstation 1 console rather than being surpassed by a car game like Gran Turismo; all subsequent Final Fantasy games lost by a wide margin to car games, or gun games. What does it mean?

Drama doesn't sell more.

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yeah but those games don't have any substance to them. its just drive or shoot drive or shoot. i mean i love Halo and Hydro-Thunder. they are fun games if you are in the mood for just mulling around. you know exactly what to expect from a game like that. no sense of mystery, no substance whatsoever. and sure a lot of people do prefer that. they don't want to have to think too hard when they are playing. they just want to escape from the stress of everyday life.

But for those gamers who want more out of their games and want substance to their relaxation period, that is what RPG's like the final fantasy series is for.

it doesnt even matter that FF lost to those games money wise. FF series is one of the most successful ongoing series in video game history. it has gained a huge following, and that is mainly due to FF7. it was groundbreaking in graphics, story, drama. it had substance. it had meaning. it had emotion to it. it had everything that a good story needed.

so perhaps you prefer driving and shooting games. and there is nothing wrong with that. but don't diss this genre just because it has substance. that's just stupid. it shows that you don't have any respect for games like this. so why do you play them if you don't respect them? that's what i want to know.

don't ever try to change something that is so well made.


"This conversation is stupid. i'm hungry. where's the food?" - Tucker

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Like I was trying to say, Sephiroth is the greatest villain of the series; I would play the game just to meet him on my path to become stronger than him. It's a huge map, lots of dialogues, magic and interesting non-playable characters. But sadly the game is not replayable because of useless drama. Just because creators kill one of the game characters and that players feel sick about it doesn't mean it's a great achievment, otherwise it would be easy to death sentenced any important character of any game to add what you call substance. They dare call it the most shocking moment in video games, but it was not possible to fully realise that she's dead until the closing credits.


That's why I think a remake could fix that.

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how was it not apparent that she was dead? She got stabbed through the chest, she fell over. Cloud buried her by putting her at the bottom of the lake. what do you think that she can breathe underwater? that somehow there is a magical tunnel in the lake where she'll just pop out of and go "OH HAI! I'm back! that whole sequence was for absolutely nothing. Here you can play as me again, but i'm a Zombie this tiem."

They made it fairly obvious that she died. and it wasn't just that sequence. when Cloud, Aerith and Sephiroth are all in the sleeping forest, it very strongly foreshadows that something bad is going to happen. Why is that? Aerith says 'i need to go on alone' 'bye cloud!' and she runs away. Cloud tries to follow her, but alas, he is running in place. then Sephiroth falls from the trees down to where Cloud is. Its really obvious.

Then you say that the game is not replayable because of all of the 'useless drama'. sorry to burst your bubble, but i've replayed this game more than twelve times. and i'm not the only one. ask just about anyone on this board and they'll tell you that they've replayed it at least one time. people replay final fantasy games. why? sure we already know what is going to happen. Its pretty similar to reading a book for a second time. execpt unlike a book, there are things in the video game medium that allow for the second or third time to be pretty different from the previous times. for example, the ancient forest, the golden chocobo, Emerald, Ultimate and Ruby Weapon. obtaining Vincent and Yuffie and then their subsequent side quests and hidden areas. There are many reasons to replay this game. and perhaps you'd want to argue that a book has usless drama because people die in books too that can't be revived. so perhaps their deaths have no meaning whatsoever either. like lets take The Lord of the Rings as a good example. boromir, one of the main and central characters, dies trying to protect Merry and Pippin. and he can't be revived. sure, Gandalf the Grey died and came back as Gandalf the white. but that's not the same thing, because Gandalf had it in his power to be brought back. Toklin even explains himself that Gandalf was brought back because he had authority that was greater than the authority that bound time together. So did Boromir die for no reason either? did his death scene serve no point whatsoever? If you can somehow argue that Boromir died for nothing either, then you should really reevaluate what literature is and what it means.

also, from what it sounds like, the only reason why you play this game is to get stronger than sephiroth and beat him. okay yes that is more or less the main goal of the game, to defeat sephiroth. but that is not at all why the majority of people out there play the game. they play the game for the wonderful story, for the great characters, for the drama and the substance of the story. there are so many wonderful aspects to it. Aerith's connection to Dr. Gast. Hojo being Sephiroth's father. Cait Sith and his ties with Reeve and Shinra. Reno, Rude, and Elena and how in the end (depending on how it is you played) and their realization that what Avalanche is trying to accomplish really is for the greater good of the planet. Cid and his dreams to go out into space and how that subsequently makes everyone realize that although there is so much more to life than the tiny planet that they reside on, that their tiny little home needs all the help and aid that it can get. that that realization that there are so many bigger aspects to the universe only gives them all the more reason to protect everything that they have and love. that is substance. that is drama. that is what we like to call a storyline.

if you just want to raise up your characters and defeat sephiroth, go for it. but you admitting your opinion that sephiroth is one of the greatest video game villains means that you acknowledge all the aspects of the wonderful story. which means that you have to atleast agree that the story has some aspect of drama and substance. if not, would you please explain to me your reasons why Sephiroth is one of the greatest villains in your opinion.

Oh and yes, by the way. killing of any character would add what i like to call substance. For instance Sephiroth didn't only just kill Aerith. he killed Tseng (yeah sure he comes back in Advent Children, and so does Rufus for that matter of fact, but i stick by the idea that they are dead. why? because how could they not die? the only reason they were brought back in AC, my opinion, is to bring back the element of the Shinra corporation.) Sephiroth also killed President Shinra as well.

So yes lets say they killed off Barret instead of Aerith. or they killed them both. it would have added substance because no one in that game died for no reason. Even Dyne, one of the least central character to the overall theme of the game, had a big reason to die. It showed Barret that no one was invincible and that sanity is a fragile thing. it also showed him that time does indeed change things and that the word 'redemption' really does mean something.

once again, in every piece of literature in any of its mediums (books, movies, games) or should i say in any noteworthy piece of literature that has a strong and meaningful story, everything happens for a reason. and just because everyone can't pick up on that doesn't mean that it is not a fact.

"This conversation is stupid. i'm hungry. where's the food?" - Tucker

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I think there's a problem with Aeris death in FFVII. When creators deal with surrealistic power in their story, how is it possible to kill a main character? It is a nonsense. Creators should remake FFVII, or provide a sequel to bring Aeris back to life.

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i actually prefer it when main characters die off. it shows that not everyone is invincible. Of course i do admit that sometimes they are executed much better than other times. and Aerith's execution was executed excellently... (ha).

If you want to, and take the time to, read A Song of Ice and Fire. Its a series by George R.R. Martin. so far its four books in, each book being roughly eight hundred pages. Main characters are killed off all the time in that series (they are POV characters, the story being told through their eyes and they die). and each dies for a perfectly good reason. well, not to say that there aren't stunning and surprising deaths, but life still carries on, even if it is a horrible life.


i also feel as if we're getting a little off track and that this argument is getting really pointless since we're both going to keep on arguing for the same points. I think that most deaths have meanings behind them and no character is ever killed off for no reason. i feel as if Aerith's death was extremley significant and that FF7 wouldn't be as good if she didn't die. she needed to die for the characters to really grow and become who they needed to be in order to do what they needed to do.

you think that its stupid that she died and that killing main characters is a cheap way to get audiences to connect to the story (well, more or less) and that main character's deaths ruin story lines. so i say we leave it at that, you with your opinions and me with my opinions.

"This conversation is stupid. i'm hungry. where's the food?" - Tucker

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Remake needs:

-updated graphics
-voice acting
-more materia, items, and weapons
-additional side quests
-additional scenes, to emphasize a particular point or emotion (example: Aerith's death scene or Highwind scene with Tifa)

What SHOULD NOT be changed:

-gameplay: maintain the turn based, no action styled crap.
-deletion of scenes: if its in the original, it'd better be on the remake

"I have no wish to change the world." ~Ramza Beoulve, Final Fantasy Tactics

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What does surrealistic power have to do with the possibility of killing a main character? Not everybody just plays these games for mindless entertainment, many actually want to engage in the great story that it is. The creators wanted Aeris's death scene to mean something. Just look at any interview with Nomura, Nojima and Kitase. They created the character of Aeris and they made her death permanent for a very good reason.

It's funny you should talk about character deaths being "cheap", when your suggestion, spontaneously bringing them back, would be the most cheap move of all.

nobody ever earned any wages by being pessimistic.

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Bringing things back is the most common thing in this game; phoenix down item, revive and restore materia, the summons including the ending super nova when Sephiroth destroy mercury and venus again and again.

Not being able to bring Aeris back to life is a major discordance. It's this discordance that shock the audience when Cloud put Aeris in the lake; players are wondering "what the hell Cloud is doing?" and when at the end of trying to figure that out, it's the closing credit.

Certainly, there's brilliant way to build emotions without cheaply kill a playable character, and FFVII creators should try to find them for the remake.

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phoenix downs and remedies and potions..... yeah those don't add anything what so ever to they story. they are there for the players aid. theoretically, anyone who plays the game doesnt need to use potions and curing spells and such. These elements don't make them an overwhelming theme in the game. they aren't even a theme in the game. they are elements to help the game progress. that is all. if everyone on the planet could use phoenix downs to their hearts desire absolutely no one would have died since they were created. war and conflict would be rendered absolutely pointless and thusly there would be no game and no story because if someone died then they would be automatically revived. they are not a theme.

okay players are not wondering "what the hell Cloud is doing?". if they are following the storyline, like they should be, they should know that Cloud is burying her. it really is not hard at all to understand. she got stabbed. they bury her. it is what happens. hell the first time i played this game i was seven or eight. even when i was that young i clearly understood that she died and that Cloud was burying her. i had no problems whatsoever with it other than the fact that it was emotionally wrenching.

"This conversation is stupid. i'm hungry. where's the food?" - Tucker

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[deleted]

Aeris got stabbed but what about the arrow-stabbed stone statue of Seto crying tears? Aeris death can't make sense after all those surrealist elements exposed to the player.

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Seto is the guardian of Cosmo Canyon. and he is not dead, he has been turned to stone physically. his tears represent that although his body may have turned to stone, his love, passions, determination, and heart have not. And the fact that he still continues to survive after that shows that immense determination and willpower can overcome any major obstacle. He still protects the canyon as a symbol of strength and perseverance. he is overjoyed and honored to see that his son, Nanaki, has followed in his footsteps and has become a greater person than he ever was. Seto is also a great figure for Nanaki; it really helps him in his coming of age developments as the father he thought had forsaken his home really was the sole reason why the canyon was still standing.

It is already known that Nanaki's species can live for hundreds of years, so Seto remaining alive after forty plus years after turning into stone isn't too unbelievable in the fantasy surrealistic setting. (Bugenhagen mentions that Nanaki is just a child for being 47 i believe, and it is assumed that the battle of Cosmo Canyon happened in Nanaki's infancy, so yeah 40-30 years being stone isn't unbelievable.)


As for Aerith's case (once again...) She was willingly sacrificing herself. so all of her strength, determination, willpower and perseverance were directed into her being a martyr to help guide Avalanche into the right direction.

"This conversation is stupid. i'm hungry. where's the food?" - Tucker

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Are you sure? There's no doubt Aeris did a very noble thing of course, but with the way all the events played out... When I saw the death scene I was sure Aeris didn't actually know she was going to be killed. She looked very shocked when Sephiroth stabbed her - I don't think she even saw him. Of course she must have at least known she was taking a huge risk by going to the city alone with Sephiroth on the loose (being the last Cetra she knew she was the only one who could summon Holy, and though she could defend herself she wasn't very strong), but whether she was actually intending to sacrifice herself by doing so... even the other characters couldn't really decide for sure (later in the game Cloud and Tifa discuss this very thing - Cloud was sure Aeris must have known she was going to die, but Tifa didn't think so).

Specifically, to quote from the FFVII script:

Tifa:
"I wonder what Aeris felt... when she was on that altar...?"

Cloud:
"I'm sure she wanted to give her life for the planet..."

Tifa:
"Really? I wonder? I don't think that's it at all.
I think she didn't think she would die at all, but that she
planned on coming back all along.
She always used to talk about the 'Next time'.
She talked about the future more than any of us..."


nobody ever earned any wages by being pessimistic.

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Great to know that it is now official they are remaking the game graphically and will add some new stuff as well, perhaps new boss, side missions ect...

What do you think will they kill Aeris again and in which manner? How do you imagine the new death scene will it be done in same fashion as in the original version?

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