Rave! If you please, that is... - Jane Eyre (1973) Discussion

[–] Rosabel 18 years ago

Oh, the voice! Jayston's Rochester is always so interesting to listen to! He's got such variety in his voice. My favourite scene for that is when Jane is asking permission to go to Gateshead to visit Mrs. Reed. He's forceful and sticking up for her rights, telling her not to bother with someone who cast her off when she was a child, and just let her stew in her own juices! (The sort of thing I would say!) Jane has kinder instincts, though, and persuades him that it would be cruel not to go. So then we have the whole thing with the money.

First, the way he makes her hand over her pathetic little purse with two shillings in it. The way he looks at the coins and laughs! Then he's going to be Mr. Generous, and gives her a 50 pound note - I love the way she demurely says "I have no change." I should think not; we saw how much money she has. Then this little back and forth - she won't take it, he's mad and so is she: "Stubborn!" "Yes!" "Right!" He grabs it back and then mutters, "I'd better not give it to you all at once, or you'll stay away 3 months." The assumption about women there - just give her a chance, and she'll take off on some adventure, and he won't see her again until she needs more money. It's probably happened to him before.

Then my favourite part, when they have their dispute about her advertising for a new job, and he thinks he'll exercise a bit of control over her by getting the money back.

"Jane, give me back the ten pounds; I have a use for it."
"And so have I!"
"Little niggard! Just let me...look at the cash."
"No, sir! You are not to be trusted."

Demand, then wheedle - Jayston just plays this so beautifully, because Rochester is both sincere and playing a role with Jane, and he crosses back and forth all the time.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

reply

[–] lucy_snowe 18 years ago

Oh, there are about a billion things to rave about in this version. Leaving Jayston aside even for a moment we have Lovely Sorcha being lovely and doing nice things. I love how delighted her smile is when she is completely happy (after the fire, and during THAT moment after the proposal) and how wistful she manages to make her face at other times. The changes it goes through when she is berating herself for loving Mr R when he has ridden off are fascinating, and very clever.

I love Adele in this version! And the swaggery way she says 'Monsieur Rochester a parle de vous'. You can tell how she has picked up some of her mother's manner.

I love that permission scene! The chemistry is so intense you wonder they don't succomb. Personally I would've been done for. Particular the look on Jayston's face when he says "but that would not content me either" and smiles a secret smile.

reply

[–] kat63 18 years ago

Yes, I agree, that particular scene has always been one of my favourites (although there are so many to choose from!) I love the banter between them, you can tell Rochester desperately doesn't want her to go but he covers it up well with wonderful humour and teasing, I think that must be one of the best acted scenes in the whole adaptation, it always makes me smile when I watch it. And again it just highlights the wonderful chemistry between the 2 of them which is missing from so many of the other adaptations. Wonderful stuff!

I also love Adele in this version, she has a very expressive face and is a really talented little actress.

reply

[–] sophiatwoK 18 years ago

Ah, yes, the permission scene. I find myself waiting for it each time I watch part 3 (my favorite of the 5). The passion in both characters is so pronounced, so beautifully laid bare, yet the game's still on. Never has insecurity been so sexy ;)

And I have to agree, Sorcha has a lovely smile. I also love the way Rochester emphasizes her small size yet 'supernatural' powers from the start. Sprite, elf, witch, sorceress, little niggard, little sceptic... in Jayston's dark chocolate voice... and Sorcha's smile and vivid eyes and quick replies. What a treat.

reply

[–] kat63 18 years ago

I contacted the Bronte society in Italy and told them about this gem of an adaptation (in my very rusty Italian)! Got a lovely reply back asking how they can purchase it and could I do a review of it for their next newsletter which they would send me a copy of. So if anyone has anything they would like put in the review, let me know! Let's spread the word!

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I just wanted to say that I'm still thinking of what I could say about it that won't take up too much space ;)

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

How is your article going, Kat?

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

Sorcha is the only actress to play Jane's shyness properly. Most of the time she is too severe or she is simply quiet and passive. The Adele in this version is also my favourite. Most of the other Adeles can't even pull off being French ;) And too often they are really obvious in their acting style. She's very natural. The only thing I dislike is not her fault but the writer's. I don't like how they chose to increase the tension between her and Rochester. It's there in the book but not to this degree.

'THAT moment'- which one is that? There are so many ;) I'm guessing it's when he turns to her and whispers low 'I love you... like my own flesh!' ? Or when he puts his head in her lap? Or one of the many kisses... Or when he's still teasing? :D

Great username, by the way :) I'm going to start asking the BBC to release their 1970 mini series of Villette, although I've never heard whether it is any good. :-/

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

Oh, yes, that reminds me...

"It seems stingy to my notions. Dry, and unfriendly..." *peek* "If one shook hands..."

That little glance has a sweetness to it that I cannot describe. It makes me smile each time I see it, and it only lasts a fraction of a second!

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I was really impressed by her performance as Blanche Ingram. It would be really difficult to beat. All the other Blanche Ingrams I have seen are straw targets. They're the 'stuck-up-society-woman' type with no individuality. Blanche- like all of Charlotte's characters- iw very real. Stephanie brought Blanche to life in this production. She is haughty, impetuous, proud, demanding, but elegant, lively. You never think Blanche is ridiculous. It's believable that Jane would feel she is false, but that Rochester would marry her 'for society, perhaps, political reasons.'

She looks so much like the character too, which is an added bonus. :)

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I think Sorcha acts very well with her eyes also. My favourite instance of this is when she is listening to Rochester speak about his degeneration (which is a great scene about how both of them are experts at eye language). She is so absorbed in his narrative, just like Jane's 'eager bird' look, until Rochester begins to tell her that he reads the expression in her eye. The way she then attempts to conceal her expression, by slowly and carefuly averting her direct gaze is so poignant. And of course, she cannot resist being drawn in again and raises her eyes to question and probe his.

By the way, I think you get extra points for 'if you please, that is.' :)

I also love that particular 'look.' He's so consistent. He clearly picked up the fact that Jane was musing on his having faults, a few moments before this sequence but it is clear he's still waiting for the moment to open up that part of the discussion. Nothing he does is disconnected or random.

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kat63 18 years ago

Agree with everything you said. Hadn't thoought about it before but all the supporing cast are really good, so because Michael and Sorcha are so outstanding, I think this is what makes the whole adaptation exceptional. Stephanie Beacham was perfect as Blanche, believably and horribly arrogant and facially as I imagined her from the book. Also liked Megs Jenkins as Mrs. Fairfax. Even Pilot the dog gave a very understated, cheeky performance!

I guess every once in a while a part comes along which was just made for a certain actor, and I think that's what happened here with Jayston. He just looked as if he loved playing the role. It's a shame he didn't get more credit for it at the time!

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

'Even Pilot the dog gave a very understated, cheeky performance!'

lol! I never considered it in that light. But you know, the dogs they pick for these adaptations say a lot about what sort of Rochester we see. Sometimes the dog is an aggressive type that would be more at home at Wuthering Heights than at Thornfield. I think there's only been one version that has an actual Newfoundland dog in it, and that's the 1997 version which I don't care for at all. But when I just had screencaps to go on, I thought it was so funny that Pilot is this huge wolfhound. One of my friends remarked that he looked more like 'a Yorkshire yak!'

I think Mr. Jayston did enjoy playing the role. He said himself that after all these years it is his favourite TV role. He's also a bit of a wit himself. He did say that he liked that aspect of the character- his wit and his 'romantic quality.'

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] lucy_snowe 18 years ago

THAT moment... ha! For me it is the bit after the proposal when Mr R puts his arms round Jane when she's scolding him about his eccentric principles. Sorcha looks completely delighted, and with good reason. ;-)

I like Blanche too. The whole 'society' scene is great - the mention of John Reed, Blanche (wearing a completely gorgeous frock) stalking selfconsciously, how the other girls behave towards her, Sorcha's little looks, and when Rochester comes in, how he seemingly can't help but gravitate towards Jane and talk loudly so she can hear him. And the song is a bonus!

Another great Blanche scene - after the Mason attack, I love the sudden violence of 'I will wax dangerous!' and the accusing way she looks at him when he has repulsed her.

The second interview is very well directed I think. The tete a tete is cleverly interrupted with the odd scandalised look from Mrs Fairfax or exclamation from Adele. And as you say, both Sorcha and Jayston are amazing in it. I love the way he pauses and folds his arms when he says 'I will admit... so fair a guest...".

reply

[–] Rosabel 18 years ago

and when Rochester comes in, how he seemingly can't help but gravitate towards Jane and talk loudly so she can hear him. And the song is a bonus!

I loved the way, as the song is coming to an end, Jane can't stand it anymore and quietly gets up to leave. Unnoticed by everyone except Rochester, of course. He very smoothly moves around the piano so he can keep her in view the whole time even while he's singing, and then with a flourish makes a perfect exit as the song ends and the people are applauding. It's just so that he can intercept her before she gets upstairs, of course, but it's done so naturally, nobody knows it except us.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

reply

[–] sophiatwoK 18 years ago

I heartily agree, the supporting cast is as brilliant as the leading couple.

Blanche is a gem. For all her faults, we can't help but notice how beautiful she is, how gracefully she moves (I particularly love the way she tilts her head during the Corsair Song - she's as graceful as a swan!). And all this beauty doesn't move Mr. Rochester... it's very satisfying to see ;)

Adele is excellent, too. Strangely, most people expect to see a blonde Adele. I read into her description in the book, but couldn't find a specified hair color. But she's genuinely French and lively and coquettish. Isabelle Rosin did a good job! Too bad it was her only performance.

Pilot: LOL, I love that dog! He's so gentle, and the actors touch him a lot. I always smile when Mrs. Fairfax tells Jane about Mr. Rochester's accident, and Pilot just stands there quietly, and Mrs. Fairfax pokes his back like he's a table or something! If Mr. Rochester is a gentleman, Pilot is a gentledog. ;)

reply

[–] jessie9-chu 18 years ago

Ah, yes, I love Pilot too. I've noticed the scene before you mentioned it. I couldn't help but smile every time I watched it. He's a lovely giant dog. I also love the way he sat in front of Mr Rochecher when Rochester parted with the priest in the library after the wedding's cancelled. It seemed at that time when Rochester's dark secret had been discovered and he's totally alone, Pilot was the only one stood by him. Great dog!

reply

[–] sophiatwoK 18 years ago

Great comment, Jessie!

I usually hate that part of the book but this version makes it bearable. I guess it's the kind little things, like Pilot sitting beside his lonely master... or even the mellow kindness of the priest. The way he says "What is its nature? Perhaps it can be explained away" or "Accept my sympathy, Miss Eyre..." We can feel that his heart goes out to this unfortunate couple. Even Mason's face reveals some sympathy towards Jane.

reply

[–] jessie9-chu 18 years ago

I agree with you. They handled every detail with care and subtlety, which makes this version still a gem after 33 years. And the more I watch it, the more I love it.

reply

[–] Rosabel 18 years ago

Another moment I just love is when Rochester has just heard from Jane that Mason is in the drawing room with his guests. After he's recovered somewhat from the shock, he sends her off to fetch Mason, and sits down in his chair to wait. Jayston looks so wonderfully bereft there, the way he folds his hands and looks ahead of him. He's like a scared little boy waiting outside the principal's office for a punishment. We've never really seen Rochester looking helpless like that; he honestly looks as if he doesn't know what to do.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

reply

[–] kat63 18 years ago

What can I add that hasn't all been already said. I was just thinking that rather than an actual scene, the line I think I love the most is in the scene where Jane is leaving Rochester after finding out about his wife, he pleads with her

"Jane you must be reasonable or in truth I shall go mad!"

The way he says it, it is so moving, he sounds completely broken and bereft! Heart renching stuff and tremendous acting!

I think if I'd been Jane I'd have completely ruined the story by staying!

reply

[–] sophiatwoK 18 years ago

I think if I'd been Jane I'd have completely ruined the story by staying!

and this has got to be MY favourite line :D

reply

[–] sophiatwoK 18 years ago

There’s something very romantic and subtle about bedroom scenes in JE, too! We’ve grown too accustomed to stark nudity and steamy sex scenes in on-screen bedrooms, so this story brings a fresh perspective to the term ’bedroom scene’.

I think the 1973 version deals with this playfully and honestly. Sorcha and Michael look so natural as the young ingenue and the eccentric gentleman going back and forth between each other’s bedrooms! They’re like a team – putting out the fire – preparing to look after Mason – and finally, dealing with the aftermath of attempted bigamy. BUT… but he keeps touching her, he almost confesses, she’s confused, and the chemistry is wild! The bonus is the clean-up scene. Jane stands in her master’s bedroom when she first realizes she has fallen in love with him. Sorcha performs this dramatic moment so well… The bedroom is like her heart: burnt, empty.

Sometimes I’m seriously angry at Mr. Rochester that he didn’t propose right at the after-the-fire moment! ;)

reply

[–] lucy_snowe 18 years ago

“Jane stands in her master’s bedroom when she first realizes she has fallen in love with him. Sorcha performs this dramatic moment so well… The bedroom is like her heart: burnt, empty.”

Oh yes! I like the way you put it. Grace Poole is so provoking in this scene!

Anyway, I wanted to mention the wedding scene. Good for lots of reasons. To my mind, lots of adaptations don’t really ‘get’ it – they rush it, or don’t convey how first of all Rochester tries to get away with it, then decides to reveal all – and sometimes he even completely ignores Jane completely! Shocking! Anyway in this version, it is pretty much perfect – the feet at the beginning, a very stern Briggs ‘I waited sir, lest you might yourself recant’, Mr R grabbing Jane’s hand and looking sadly at her… and a nice long rant from Jayston. I like that he gets to say ‘I'm little better than a devil at this moment.’ And terrorise Mr Mason. Poor Mr Mason. ;-)

reply

[–] Rosabel 18 years ago

Anyway in this version, it is pretty much perfect – the feet at the beginning, a very stern Briggs ‘I waited sir, lest you might yourself recant’, Mr R grabbing Jane’s hand and looking sadly at her… and a nice long rant from Jayston.

I love the little touch they put in - he sort of "places" her off to the side before he turns to deal with Briggs. It's as if he's putting himself between her and this terrible threat - he wants to protect her and shelter her. It's so nice that his FIRST thought is about her, not about fighting his opponents.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

Oh, when I first saw it I kept replaying over and over and over again the instant when he took her hand. It was so poignant, and full of tension. The way he's suppressing the urge to act while Briggs is speaking, and his eyes are showing his desperation while he's trying to keep calm. But then he snatches up Jane's hand, and looks so determined, yet you can tell that he knows it's hopeless: there's a slight pleading in his look just then. There's nothing else for him to do.

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophiatwoK 18 years ago

Yes, Jayston carries the whole scene on his shoulders. (Do they say this in English? I'm not a native speaker...)

What a magnificent actor! The wedding scene must be the second most difficult one after the proposal scene, I suppose.

And his voice, of course. "What have you to SAY?!"

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I think I have heard that phrase before. Very often English speakers just use 'carried the scene.' What is your native language, if you don't mind me asking?

I have seen a lot of these scenes, and I think you're quite right. Rochester is a conflicted man but in the wedding scene all of those elements at war within him have to start surfacing and resolving somewhat. I think this is why, in the book, there's a part where he just goes blank and doesn't even seem to register that there are other people there. However, it is not a particularly memorable scene of itself. I only remember three versions of it clearly: the 1973 version, 1997, and 1996. The 1996 one was well done, you have that blankness for a moment, and anger and pathos. The 1997 version was terrible- as so much of that film is. It even includes a sudden close up of Rochester's face as he shakes with rage bellowing: "No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophiatwoK 18 years ago

I'm a Hungarian. That said, I spend most of my net time on English-speaking boards and sites. This board is my new favourite :) I just wish we could all meet and watch this together. (Over and over again, I suspect!)

reply

[–] kat63 18 years ago

Well, your english is excellent!

It is nice to discuss this wonderful adaptation with so many other people who appreciate it. My family used to think I was mad all those years ago when I went on about how wonderful it was, (actually I probably am a bit mad anyway), but my sister has now sat and watched the adaptation with me and thinks the acting is wonderful.

It's nice to know we've all got such good taste!

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

That is another thing I love about this series. even before it was available there was such a lovely community growing among those who had seen it. Everyone seems to be so warm and friendly! I'm glad to see that instead of everyone going their own way now that the DVD is out, it only brought new people in and started some great new discussions!

It is possible that we could watch it together (although not meet). Some friends of mine have tried this before and have some sort of instant messenger there so they can comment to the group as they watch. I think it wouldn't really work for us. Have you tried looking away? I have. It isn't possible. lol (A friend of mine, early on, said that Michael Jayston's voice has a purr in it like a cat. So I tried to see if I might pick it out by only listening. It was not easy to do.)

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophiatwoK 18 years ago

Well, your english is excellent!

It is nice to discuss this wonderful adaptation with so many other people who appreciate it.

Thanks, and I agree, Kat! It's so good to see there are other fans of this little gem. Not such a huge crowd-pleaser as the 1995 P&P, but a definite gem.

reply

[–] jo_42 18 years ago

I bought this DVD without having seen it once. I heard so many good things I couldn't even wait for Netflix to arrive. And I'm glad I did. I've tried to see as many Jane Eyre adaptations as I could, and this has to be my favorite.

This Rochester is my favorite so far. As I was watching it the first time, I kept thinking "Oh, so that's what Bronte intended." Abrupt, masterful, changing. He has issues, but he's not Heathcliff. And every other adaptation seems to forget his sense of humor - they usually cut out his teasing Jane when they first meet. ("Do you know Mr. Rochester...Can you tell me where he is?")

And Ms. Cusack is fantastic. Amazing though Rochester is, he wouldn't be half so good if he didn't have this Jane to play off.

And though I love all of this - St. John was great, Blanche was perfect - I can't get over the second interview. The only version I've seen where it wasn't chopped to peices was Dalton/Clarke, and in that it was so quiet and staid, and the pacing was so slow. This one was electric! The conversation sizzled.

My only complaint, if you can complain about something this good, is that the narration was a little intrusive. Particularly in the Jane/Rochester scenes when it's getting all swoony and good, and then her voice pops up and comments on something we really don't need to know. Or that they explain to us in the next line. I'm thinking of the second interview again, where Jane smiles to herself, the narration says she smiles, and then Rochester says "The smile is very good, but speak too."

reply

[–] kenzie2 18 years ago

Glad we have yet another convert to this fabulous adaptation. Hadn't thought about it before but agree with you in saying that Jayston and Cusack totally complement each other, they are both perfectly cast as the characters they portray and they just seem to gel. I guess it really is chemistry between the 2 main stars that can either make or break a movie, and I think this is where this version really excels.

I actually really like the narration throughout, didn't find it at all intrusive and thought it was very cleverly done and pretty unique to this version. Also think Sorcha has a lovely lilting voice so I loved listening to her narration.

The 2006 version which is being made is going to have to work some to beat this one!

reply

[–] sophiatwoK 18 years ago

Also think Sorcha has a lovely lilting voice so I loved listening to her narration.

Yes, this is another thing I love about Sorcha and Michael! Their voice and pronunciation is so clear and melodious. I do hear that purr in both voices ;)
Sorcha was quite a newbie at acting that time, wasn't she? I think she used to be a teacher of English in Dublin before her acting debut.

reply

[–] booksjoy98 18 years ago

I wanted to say thank you to all of you who are such enthusiasts of this adaptation of Jane Eyre. I just re-read the book last month – the only detail I had remembered was the madwoman in the attic. So I was completely and pleasantly surprised by the romance between Jane and Mr. Rochester. As soon as I finished the book I looked for a film adaptation of it – the characters were so vivid I wanted to see them “come to life.” Thanks to imdb and all of you I am sure I have watched the best one first! Though of course I am making my way through the rest of them… the first four spots on my netflix queue are Jane Eyre adaptations. :)

One of my favorite scenes is the morning after the proposal. Sorcha carries herself so well in this scene and you truly see that Jane is indeed Rochester’s equal. My favorite part: when Jane refuses the jewels and finery, and Rochester starts sulking. She asks for a favor and he says “What, you changeling?” She answers, “There, you are less than civil now and I like rudeness a great deal better than flattery.” The smile from Michael Jayston that follows is the best! He is amused, but I think also conveys, “This is what I love about her.” It’s not only that she understands and accepts him, but that she doesn’t back down from him.

I could mention several other scenes too – the whole series is just wonderful!

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

Which other adaptations are you trying out next?

You put that scene so nicely! And that is one of my favourite scenes- of all of the scenes I have ever watched in all of the adaptations I have watched (more than 12 now)! :) It captures so much of the essence of their love.

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] booksjoy98 18 years ago

Thank you for your kind words! I have just finished watching the 1983 version with Timothy Dalton. Next in the queue is 1996, then 1997, and then, ah… 1973 again. I have to finish with the best. :) I was planning to ask for the 1973 version as a Christmas gift but I’m not sure I can wait.

I appreciate that the 1983 version was quite faithful to the book – but it bothered me the way some lines were edited or left out. The worst for me was the line that was left out of the proposal scene where Rochester says,“…it is as if I had a string somewhere under my left ribs, tightly and inextricably knotted to a similar string situated in the corresponding quarter of your little frame.” This is one of my favorite lines and they took it out! They used the entire paragraph from the book except this one line. I didn’t understand that.

I really disliked the proposal scene in this version. Here he “summons” her – and then they are so wooden in the garden – by the time they embrace it seems to come out of nowhere. Again, why so faithful to the book, but stray when it comes to this important scene? And so of course I hate when the next morning she flies into his arms. Totally out of place – not only because it’s not the way Jane and Rochester should be portrayed, but because these characters have not been openly flirtatious or affectionate with each other at all – it does not fit the tone of the film.

I did not mind that Timothy Dalton was perhaps too handsome to play Rochester – it made him nice to look at. :) But I thought his performance was too uneven, with the angry and gruff bits coming at odd places. I understand I will get to see more misplaced rage in the 1997 version, but I think I’m just going to have to see them all.

Long post – sorry! Just so excited to discuss it all…

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I had never noticed that they removed the 'string' line! That is surprising... That is one of his typical lines! I will have to see it again. I also disliked how the proposal was managed- including how he 'summons' her. When she runs away, it really irritates me how he keeps staring into space like that, as though he didn't even notice that she just left the room in tears! Compare that with the tension at the same moment in the 1973 version- even with its fake garden. She has said it, but he has to keep up the pretense that he only means to have a farewell talk with his 'little friend.' I enjoy his expression just then, which she can't see. I was very disappointed with the 1983 proposal scene as a whole. Jane isn't frenzied enough- he has just pushed her past her emotional endurance. Instead she just looks a little sad and sniffles at him. And there is no real build up to the embrace either. The kiss didn't stir me either- I kept thinking how much Rochester looked like he was eating a really large ice cream, how he tilts her head back and kisses her down like that. Could he not bend to her level? ;)

I thought Zelah looked cute air-borne but you're right that in the novel she can hardly believe what has happened and half-fears that he will be cold in the morning.

Ah, yes. Dalton is my second favourite Rochester but his brilliant scenes are few and most of the time he stares- stares for a variety of emotions. And the changeful abrupt nature of Rochester has a psychological basis- it seems abrupt because we do not know he is troubled and that these thoughts are intruding. If there were some hint of this unease before he lashes out like that it would be more believable.

I do like the 1996 version, although it is more like an impression of JE. If you don't expect to see the passion and the plot of the novel you might enjoy it as well. My advice for enjoying the 1997 version is to keep a sense of humor. It is my current favourite for most hilariously awful adaptation :)

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] booksjoy98 18 years ago

Yes, this is one of my favorite Jayston moments too. You see him react to what she’s said, and he looks as though he might give up the whole charade just then! But he soldiers on… so much is conveyed in that one second with his facial expression and his eyes, and with Timothy Dalton there is just the staring. I just love the 1973 scene altogether – the way it begins in the garden – with the moth. :) I love when he says, “ah, he’s flown.” It’s much more natural.

To be fair, there were parts I liked in the 1983 version. I really like the scene after Blanche has played the piano and Rochester follows Jane out into the hall. The way Zelah stands on the stairs she is eye-level with Timothy Dalton. Dalton is really so much taller than she is and I liked this as a way to visually express that they were equals.

I also liked the scenes with Jane and Adele. I thought they established an actual relationship between the two and showed what Jane’s place in the house would have been as the governess.

I liked some of the updated costumes – in the 1973 version some of those ruffles at Jayston’s neck detract from focusing on his face. Though in the fire scene (1983), Jane still has her bonnet on! This may be accurate for the time, but I thought it got in the way of the interaction we’re supposed to be watching between Jane and Rochester.

Interesting to note how this scene ends in each version. In 1983 when Dalton finally lets her go, he folds his arms in front of his chest. This is very closed body language – closing himself off from her. In 1973, Jayston clasps his hands behind his back – leaving the front of his body completely open. It’s as though he is opening himself to her, letting himself be more vulnerable.

These are details I don’t really think about while reading the book and make the film adaptations really fun to watch.

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

The 1983 version is excellent- in my opinion. It sounds sometimes as though I don't like it, but it is just that I see a lot of flaws in it even though I admire what is brilliant in it. I went to the amazon.com page for the 1973 version and laughed out loud at the reviews because they all ended with: "SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE 1983 VERSION!" I can imagine how a fan of that series might feel! lol

The first episode of the 1983 version is brilliant. Sian is the finest actress to play Jane as a child, in my opinion and would be difficult to surpass. The Reeds are perfect. As for the leads, I never warmed to Zelah at all, but now and then I was very impressed with Dalton's work. I only wish he had been more consistent. It was almost as if he didn't do very much for most of his scenes and then let all of his energies and talents burst out in two or three scenes. It made me frustrated with him. One of these brilliant scenes, is when Jane leaves him. He gives a fantastic performance. When I first saw it, part of it made me cry. But even then I was distracted by Zelah who seemed to go from wooden to theatrical.

Re: costumes, I agree except that I hated the 1983 Rochester's penchant for shiny purple waistcoats. ;) I have a friend who does Victorian gentlemen reactments. He and I laughed over how, in the proposal scene, Rochester's cravat is the size of his head.

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] booksjoy98 18 years ago

I do agree with your assessment of the 1983 version. The young Jane scenes are much better and Dalton’s performance when Jane leaves is very moving. I can see that before the 1973 production was widely available that this would’ve been the clear choice.

I should be getting the 1996 version this week. I laughed at myself this past weekend – I could’ve been a netflix commercial. I had been out of town and got home late - should’ve gone to bed but I thought - I’ve got Edward Rochester in my mailbox. There’s no way I’m going to sleep!

reply

[–] lucy_snowe 18 years ago

Booksjoy, I love your descriptions of what’s happening in this version! Rochester soldiering on indeed! ;-) And it is spot on what you said about that smile! It’s almost my favourite of all Jayston’s smiles, and he smiles a lot, and I love them all. I’m so pleased too that we have brought you back to the book. I wonder if the new adaptation in the autumn will have the same effect on other people?

With regard to adaptations – you might like the 1942 film. Peggy Ann Garner is my favourite young Jane.

Sophie, I am glad you are so even-handed in your treatment of 1983 versus 1973. The lines are being drawn a bit I think! It is probably important that both exist, as both bring out different aspects of the novel (and no doubt the 2006 will do the same). But for me, I feel about 1983 like Lucy Snowe does about Paul’s penchant for Corneille: “I did not like it, but he did, finding therein beauties I never could be brought to perceive.”

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

The lines popped up out of nowhere, it seems! I did not expect this at all. I have been around to many forums were the films are discussed, and before it even came out some people were astonished and defensive about Acorn's calling it 'the best loved' adaptation. So, criticism has begun even before the film was available!

So you didn't like the 1983 version at all? I liked it more than I do now, when I first saw it, but it is tarnishing very rapidly. I read over my first impressions. I wasn't content with Zelah, and I was content with Dalton but I felt that there was still a lot of room for improvement. I have two reviews for the 1973 version because I literally couldn't contain my joy :) I ran to the computer after the first episode and wrote a very short post (in my personal blog) and then ran back to finish the rest!

ps. I should clarify: by 'first episode' I actually mean... from the point where Sorcha is introduced. I saw it perhaps a year before Acorn started preparing the DVD, and someone on this board was kind enough to copy their 33 year old tapes for me. But in the US everything before Sorcha's entrance was cut off, and the opening titles replaced with "part 1 and 2." The first version of the Hay Lane scene was also gone (when I saw THAT I was very excited- just to have more dialogue between them was a treat even if it was so very short!).

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] lucy_snowe 18 years ago

“So you didn't like the 1983 version at all?”

I like bits of it – like when Rochester grabs Jane when she swoons outside her room (who could hate that part!?), and some of the parting scene, and some of the reunion (at least the beginning – I like Zelah very much there). The thing is, IMHO, the story of Jane Eyre requires such emotional investment that if, for some reason, this is not possible, the whole thing falls down. And, for me, the things I find ridiculous or unconvincing in the 1983 version (such as the height difference, Zelah’s fussy hair, Dalton staring) are a dealbreaker and make it impossible for me to really enjoy watching it. I’m sure for other people these things – which are probably quite insignificant – make not a jot of difference – while, for example, Sorcha’s eyebrows and Jayston’s big seventies hairstyle do! (Or perhaps they are not quite as petty as me. ;-) ) I’m just glad that, after a lifetime of being disappointed, I have found a JE adaptation that suits me.

(BTW – in case you were wondering, I am el-eye-zed from your bronteana blog – I chose a different name here because I know the IMDB boards can be a bit trolly at times. :-) )

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I think I know which parts you mean- your description falls close to my own idea, only I would add that there are one or two moments earlier on where I like Dalton's reading of a line. I like his reading of 'trite commonplace sinner' etc, very much. But then there are moments that are all wrong. When he reads the 'life for me is like standing on a crater crust' as if it were a joke. I can't decide on other moments that I liked very much but now I think I only liked them because they were emotional but not realistic. I'm thinking of the reading of the part where he says if Jane's soul were set free it would soar. I really liked that reading at first but now it sounds overdone. If Jane doesn't begin to suppose he's a little more than civil by that point, with such a reading, she's not paying attention.

Speaking of the eyebrows, why do people think they are fake? Back when Thisbeciel first posted some pictures, people said they were '1970s eyebrows.' She inherited them from her father! That's hardly something anyone could help, and has nothing to do with the 1970s! :D

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

It definately was the best available. Everyone told me so as well, and I think it was the second adaptation I saw. I still have the review I wrote for it, when I first saw it. I was not enthralled, but I was moved.

The 1996 version is the first one I saw.

I've got Edward Rochester in my mailbox.

:D

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I am hoping that the new production will be another excellent one (to make it three excellent adaptations in a row for the BBC!). But I do think that this callibre of acting hasn't been the fashion for a long time. Toby Stephens sounds like he is a very thoughtful actor- which is a very good sign, I think.

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I agree heartily! I had actually given up on seeing a faithful portrayal of Rochester. An actor once decribed Rochester as being 'delicious' because he has 'layers on top of layers' and 'incredible levels' that make it a huge challenge to get them all harmonised as they are in the book. The character in the book is so well drawn, no one can really get him exactly right but Jayston has definately succeeded as far as I think it is possible. Direction might have increased his performance too- if they had included more of Rochester's frenzy after the wedding etc. But, I'm rambling... ;) I like how you put it that he's not like Heathcliff. That seems to be where a lot of adaptations go wrong.

Oh, and I agree about the second interview too! The repartee in this version is perfect.

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] lucy_snowe 18 years ago

Heavens here I am again, raving. Will it ever end?!

Ah the 'after-the-wedding' scene. I like it very much. IMHO it is the most important scene in the book - everything leads to and from it - which makes it all the more shocking that many adaptations pretty much leave it out completely. It's like ripping the heart out of the book. In this version what I like particularly is that the pathos comes of its own accord - you feel that the characters have earned your sympathy and that the relationship is deep and real - so they don't need to overplay the melodrama.

I love that Sorcha really does have a pale cheek and faded eye, and that she can't help collapsing into Mr R's arms. I love, too, her shocked look when Jayston says 'it was that, or suicide, Jane'. Sometimes Janes can seem a little too unfeeling and implacable in this scene, but she plays it with her heart on her sleeve, which I think works very well. My only criticism would be that the reasons for Jane's decision - the complicated mixture of self-importance and self-denial - are not properly explained.

There is probably not enough frenzy, you're right, but Jayston's frenzy goes a long way! I love his look when he says 'it would not be wicked to love me' - emphasising the 'love' rather than the 'wicked', which I think is very clever - he looks at once desperate and pathetic, as if he is trying to control Jane but knows it is impossible.

I like the kisses too. ;-)

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I don't think it will end! ;)

I really like how Sorcha plays this scene in particular. You really do believe that she would do anything to help him, short of compromising who she is. I think my favourite moment from Jayston is just after Jane says that she does think he wouldn't love her if she went mad. Also his expressions when he's first trying to convince Jane to live with him and she says no. ...And when he talks about his father. There's a lot of shame there, that his father was such a man and also a quiet horror of how obediently he stepped into the trap in his youth.

You make a good point about emphasis, too. I've seen and heard so many versions now, emphasis and tone seem to make a lot of difference. With the 'it would not be wicked to love me' line, it is sometimes read as if he were trying to seduce Jane. But it is best when the true feeling of the line is brought out by emphasising 'love' rather than 'wicked.' Anthony Crivello is very pathetic when he reads that line- near tears. It is one of my favourite scenes. The 1996 version of it makes me laugh, though:

Rochester: I love you. Say you love me?
Jane: I love you more than ever, but this is the last time I shall ever say it. I must leave you.

THE END.

And then we get a demonstration either of Jane's speed-walking skills or of Rochester's tubbiness (from all of those bon bons I suspect). Jane gets out of Thornfield, across the grounds and into a coach before Mr Rochester can make it down the stairs! :)

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] Rosabel 18 years ago

The part I love the best in this scene is when he abruptly changes from pleading to anger. "Jane, I'm not a gentle-tempered man!" I just LOVE the way Jayston leaps up on his feet at that line. He's still Rochester, after all - quick and changeable, not disciplined and patient like Jane - and his patience is suddenly at an end! The violence is toned down in the TV adaptation - in the book, I got the feeling he was almost on the point of trying to physically beat her into submission. Maybe even kill her - doesn't he say something about how he could just crush her with his bare hands, but her soul would slip through his fingers and escape him, and it's her soul that he wants. He might not have been talking about killing, though - maybe he just meant that if he wanted, he could physically force her to do whatever he wanted. But it would pretty much amount to killing, because he'd lose her forever.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

reply

[–] lucy_snowe 18 years ago

I was re-reading this scene just now and was struck by the violence too! It is interesting how, as you say, it is toned down in this version. It is consistent, though, with the general lightness of touch.

Of course the kisses are quite violent! Scuse me while I have a quick swoon over in the corner.

"And then we get a demonstration either of Jane's speed-walking skills or of Rochester's tubbiness (from all of those bon bons I suspect). Jane gets out of Thornfield, across the grounds and into a coach before Mr Rochester can make it down the stairs! :)"

hahah! The 1940s version is even worse as I recall. "You are going, Jane?" "Yes, I'm off now." "Bye then". I suppose what irks me about this is that it assumes that Jane is primly milquetoast enough to leave her lord and master without any inner struggle! It underestimates her character shockingly.

I like Jayston's look of moral horror when he describes his honeymoon as well, and the way he looks when he talks of Bertha's 'violent, vicious contradictions'. And how his face and tone changes when he talks of meeting Jane in Hay Lane. It's amazingly how quickly and adroitly he changes, like you say... he is Rochester after all!

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I was writing my reply at the same time this was posted so I missed it entirely!

I don't recall that bit from the 1940s version ;) I'll have to see it again. It sounds like the Ferndean scene from the 1970s film. Jane just plunks down next to Rochester on a bench in the garden and he says something like 'Oh, you're back.' And continues to be very stoic and calm. Jane even remarks that she should have perhaps gone with St.John after all. The departure scene from that one was equally hilarious:

Rochester: [in the attic] Have you ever been to an asylum? ...Jane? ...Jane?

And then we find that EVERYONE has left while he was busy making his long dull speech about how he loved Bertha 'every bit as much' as he now loves Jane. My mother and I then laughed as he ran through the house because it looked like EVERYONE had finally had enough and taken off while he was busy talking.

That part of the scene where he narrates his past is done with great skill. The only thing I dislike is the extreme closeup on 'I learned the truth.' It cheapens the moment. He can do so much on his own, you don't need a silly camera trick to enhance it. He means each word. "I had no idea of what that quiet little figure would be to me." is done so poignantly. And Jane's face is so full of true pity- no trace of false feeling in her gaze.

Even when he is off-screen he is marvellous: when he takes Jane's hand and says "and aided I was" in that catched, broken way.

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

That really is the only point in the book where he loses his grip. He almost loses it in the church, and with all of his guests when they rush at him after they hear Mason's cries. I never thought he would assault her, even though he is furious. He's talking to himself again, about how he is so much stronger than she is that he could 'bend her with my finger and thumb.' Not that he wants to, or he is tempted to. Even when he's lost it, he is rational enough to admit that he can't do this. I've heard some people have read this scene as though he is about to rape her or something.

They do always leave it out entirely or they tone it down a lot. But in the 1972 BBC radio adaptation it is all there. It should be more distressing because you can't see what is happening. You just hear him getting more angry, and then growling her name and the sound of clothes being grabbed and Jane crying out for him to let her go. Yet, after that, he continues his lines and you just don't believe he intends to harm her. But it is over so quickly and then he breaks down.

I wonder how it will look in the new series...

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] Rosabel 18 years ago

I never thought he was going to rape her - as you say, that's a pretty extreme interpretation! But I was never quite sure about where that particular train of thought was going to end. Rochester was so desperate at that point, I thought that he might have been thinking of going out Samson-like, destroying her, himself, everything, because there was nothing to live for now. But I think you're right in that he's musing aloud there, not really seriously *planning* to do anything. The contrast between their strength almost seemed a bit of wonderment to him. He's got all the physical strength, and she can't fight him physically at all. All that is opposing him is her MORAL strength, but that is powerful enough to match him and stop him in his tracks.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

reply

[–] MissPrez79 18 years ago

This is JMO, but here goes -
I don't think he would have hurt her at all. In fact, remember this passage from the book? It's near the end of the novel, when Jane and Rochester are sitting together under the tree -

"I should not have left him thus, he said, without any means of making my way: I should have told him my intention. I should have confided in him: he would never have forced me to be his mistress. Violent as he had seemed in his despair, he, in truth, loved me far too well and too tenderly to constitute himself my tyrant: he would have given me half his fortune, without demanding so much as a kiss in return, rather than I should have flung myself friendless on the wide world."

I think it's like the old saying - "If you love something, let it go. If you were meant to have it, it will come back to you." I think that's why Rochester releases Jane from his grip. He lets her go, not neccesarily because he wants to, but because he's hoping she will come to him. He has that much faith in her and in her love for him.

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I agree with that too. I really admire how, in the end, when he is convinced that what is best for Jane is at odds with his own desires, he tries to convince her to leave him. Even when she has accepted him- three times! He is not at all a selfish man (the wedding was his moment of weakness- but his moodiness is a part of his struggle with his own conscience on that point). Some of my professors and classmates don't want to believe what Rochester says but, somehow, I do. I also believe him when he says that he would still love Jane even if she became violently insane (Another scene which is so well done in this version. If only they had included more of it).

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply

[–] sophie_amundsen 18 years ago

I can't remember where I heard of people thinking he would be that violent. I don't think it was in an article, but I have seen some pretty crazy things in articles too. I think a more puzzling line is when he says that if Jane won't hear reason he'll 'try violence.' I have only heard ONE adaptation which uses this line, and that's the 1972 radio series I always rave about. I believe, in the book, he almost whispers this in her ear... or says it softly in any case, but in the adaptation he shouts it but by the time Jane has finished replying he has calmed again. He explains that he could endure her frozen look but what does he mean by violence? I can't think he would seriously consider harming her either. Is it violent emotion?

All that is opposing him is her MORAL strength, but that is powerful enough to match him and stop him in his tracks.

Yes, and it turns out that she's stronger than he is, in a sense. He can't bear to loose her but as much as she loves him she has the strength to go. I like how pitying Sorcha is, and how distressed. This makes it clear just how difficult this is for her.

***
Bronteana Bronte Studies Blog:

http://bronteana.blogspot.com

reply