MovieChat Forums > What Women Want (2000) Discussion > What do women want? To hate men apparent...

What do women want? To hate men apparently.


This film is a Cinematic Castration.
Mel Gibson in his early 'unenlightened' stage is no worse than the women, yet it is he and he alone, who is described as an "a*****e" and "sexist" (bearing in mind that this came before his later rantings). The same behaviour among the females, such as totally ignoring the office loser while selfishly pursuing their careers, is shown as normal, even as desirable.
Because of his behaviour, Gibson must suffer every humiliation. First he is forced to dress up as a woman, for no apparent reason. Next, when he starts to change, he receives scorn and mockery from his boss, Helen Hunt. At no time is her startling rudeness and smugness or even her qualification to do the job questioned. She's the heroine.
Next his sexual prowess is removed UNTIL he accepts he is just there to please his lover. He also engages in a lot of gossip, support and advice which all the women in the film find so wonderful, but in reality they would find patronising and annoying. And also rather gay.
Yes according to this film women want Gibson to be gay except when he is servicing them. They want him to shut up and listen to their waffle uncritically (or what they call 'being supportive') and accept a second-class status both at work and at home.
The climax of this comes during the awful finale. Hunt's loss of a job is seen as a major disaster, although if she was a good as she is supposed to be, she would have no difficulty getting another one. Gibson is forced to grovel to this selfish woman, telling her how everything is his fault, how she is so much better than him etc. After this piece of female ego-massage, what happens? She fires him!
However HIS job loss is seen as unimportant, something that he should accept if 'he loves her'.
Feminist propaganda tripe and highly mysandrist.

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I'll start off by saying that your post is flawed and a very typical black and white view from a male who for some reason is so bothered by a MOVIE.
Firstly, he was not forced to dress like a woman for no apparent reason. You could obviously see that Gibson was drinking, he simply went through the provided kit, tried things on and tested the items to come up with a 'representation for one or two products from the kit' which was asked of him and everybody else. He obviously thought that if he were to try the items himself, it would help him have a better insight - he was not forced.
When in the movie was Helen Hunt even remotely rude?
And apparently, according to your words, there is no difference in being 'supportive' and being gay?! What the hell is the matter with you?
Just because a male shows some compassion about what a woman has to say, that automatically makes them a homosexual?
Have you even ever been in a successful relationship? I'm guessing not, you seem to have a lot of baggage.

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One word: Insecure. Must be really hard being a man in a "man's" world. Go figure.

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I'm always amused by Gibson's attempt to put the pantyhose on.

It's a very delicate procedure,LOL.

Marry me,Bob Gunton!

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if anyone is diminishing the male gender, it's you. narcissistic imbecile.

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i've never seen this movie but i want to after hearing all the rants on here

one thing i can tell you before i even see it though is that it is going to be mostly bulls$%t, in the real world, women have a very hard time admitting what they REALLY want (because it'd make them look superficial and submissive)

hey, guys are just as bad, no actually we're worse

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What do women want? Just take a gander at the following blog for some valuable insights into the female psyche:

http://roissy.wordpress.com/

It's all in there. Happy reading.

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Yeah - it was something of a feminist screed, and that's what made the second half of the movie so remarkably lame. Women are wonderful (unless they're the thoughtless women who actually enjoy working with Nick), men are evil slimedogs.

The movie is reasonably entertaining anyway, up until the after-shopping lunch counter scene between Nick and his daughter - after that, it slides down into drivel pretty quickly.

I was amused by Alan Alda's participation here. Since his 'Hawkeye Pierce' character in M.A.S.H. was the holy grail of the sensitive man that every woman wanted (and whom most women were horribly bored with 8 years later), his appearance as Nick's boss could have had some delightful foreshadowing elements - if he'd been reprising that character, having Nick be able to hear *his* thoughts would have been truly amusing.

It's to be expected, though - the basic premise of the movie's title implies that it's gonna be pretty sexist. "What women want" is only a concept for people who are willing to group all women together, as wanting the same thing, and not view them as individuals, for whom gender is only part of their makeup as people.

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A woman complains about any man in any film and it's ok, but a man has an opinion about how some movies make women look like they hate men and he's the jerk. Men are the jerks!!! There's no logic.
It has gotten to a point these days where if a man has an opinion about how a women acts, straight up, they consider it an attack on their gender, yet men are being humiliated all over the media (Movies, TV, Music) and it's socially acceeptable.
I completely understand the humiliation and hardship women went through BACK IN THE DAY, but those days are so far gone but women still castrate men for it. Most the men who were like that and living in that era are old men now, not the modern man. But no, women will always percieve men as chauvinistic, sexually driven, violent and abusive @ssholes.
Well lets clear things up...Women beat men too!!!!!!!!!!! I've seen plenty of it on reality TV(and no-one speaks up...Funny that) and in my neighborhood. Women cheat on men. Women use men. Women sexually harrass men- Yes! A hit to the genitals is sexual harrassment, but, yet again, no-one speaks up. Instead of speakign up, they put it in movies, tv shows...Why? Because it's deemed socially acceptable to do so and funny even. I tell you what, if my son ever comes home and says a girl hit him in his privates, I'll be pressing charges for sure. It's only acceptable in nothing more than pure self defense. Not if a guy hits on you in a club and you don't want him too. I sure as sh*t don't like it when drunk sleazy chicks grab my @ss, but do I turn around and kick them between the legs? No.
Before you all immediately judge and attack me, just try and understand what I'm talking about. I love women just as much as the next guy. I respect women. I do my best to make sure no chick friend of mine is ever harrassed. I just feel like if this immature behavior continues with both men and women, we'll just never get along.
Which is a shame

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I hear exactly what you're saying, but your words would carry more weight if you didn't use "chick friends" to describe your female friends. Just sayin'.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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"A woman complains about any man in any film and it's ok, but a man has an opinion about how some movies make women look like they hate men and he's the jerk. Men are the jerks!!! There's no logic.
It has gotten to a point these days where if a man has an opinion about how a women acts, straight up, they consider it an attack"

Part of the reason people claim that women hate men is because sometimes men generalize all women into one type of person, like you just did here.

"I completely understand the humiliation and hardship women went through BACK IN THE DAY, but those days are so far gone but women still castrate men for it."

Women still deal with a lot of *beep* Any vaguely attractive woman has probably dealt with a lot of objectification. I do all the time. Unless I'm with a male friend I trust at the bar I do not feel safe. At many of the jobs I've had male customers say things to me and even touch me! that would make me so embarrassed and hurt that I didn't want to go back to work. I once complained to a manager that he wasn't helping me with rude customers and he told me I was "stupid" and "crazy" for not appreciating the attention and I shouldn't say anything because I would get in trouble if I hurt their business. And I'm not talking about in the 60s, I mean in the 2000s but they still seem like "chauvinistic, sexually driven, violent and abusive @ssholes" hmmmm

Sexism is institutionalized in our society; people are so used to it they don't even realize it's happening anymore. In the United states women earn 73 cents to every man's dollar. 1 in 4 women is raped between the age of 18 and 24. The US is also one of only four countries in the world that doesn't have a law supporting maternity or parental leave - you can get fired from your job for having a baby. I hope I don't have to explain to you what a glass ceiling is.

Just try to understand what I'm talking about. I'm a 23 year old woman and I often am made to feel uncomfortable and unsafe and unnecessary in regular places in my life. I'm not blaming you for my harassment but don't turn a blind eye and say that it doesn't happen anymore, and that ALL women should forgive ALL men.

On the other hand the majority of my friends are male, and they are great non-chauvinistic people.

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"1 in 4 women is raped between the age of 18 and 24"

Please link me to any credible research that proves those statistics to be anywhere near remotely true.

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So, what are you saying? Men aren't supposed to hit on women in bars anymore? We're not supposed to show attraction? Maybe you just don't care if men find you attractive, huh? Maybe you want to gain the attention of other women? Maybe you're a lesbian?

I mean, do you women know how sexual attraction works... or how sex works...? Or, are you so absorbed in your little safe fantasy world, thinking you know how everything should be, wanting to control the thoughts and impulses of every man around you... that you're BLIND to reality??

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Have you even watched the movie? Every single concrete point you bring up is wrong!

1) They don't at any point portray the treatment of "the office loser" in a positive way.
2) Gibson's character was not forced to dress as a woman; he chose to do it himself, in the privacy of his own home.
3) Hunt's character's qualifications for the job and spelled out, and they are clearly more than adequate for the job she has been contracted to do.
4) Hunt is never rude to Gibson, she always behaves professionally toward, except later on when they begin dating. Sure, she thinks rude thoughts about him, but how is she to know that he can hear them?
5) Gibson's sexual prowess is unaffected. What happens is that, since he can hear his partner's thoughts, he gets a much more accurate measure of how he is doing, and finds that his actual performance is less than what he had thought it was. But, instead of whining or denying, he works at it to get better, which is a rare and very good character trait.
6) About the patronizing and gay advice... it depends on who he is giving it to. Some people will respond positively to that sort of thing and others will not. Since Gibson's character can hear their thoughts he can tell who to do that with.
7) Do the women in the movie want Gibson's character to be sexually attracted to human males? No, they don't, therefore they don't want him to be gay. Words have meaning. The word you are probably looking for is effeminate, which is still a stretch.
8) The second class status thing... oh, alright, I'll give you that one. Not because I think he is "accepting second class status", but because he is being saddled with a daughter who is an obnoxious little twit. I always wonder why Hollywood teenagers are so insufferable, but that is a topic for another time.
9) Hunt's character loosing her job is a disaster, both for her and for Gibson's character. If you had paid attention during the movie you would have noticed that every good idea Gibson had was actually Hunt's, and he stole them thanks to his ability to hear her thoughts. At the beginning of the movie it is established that Gibson is good and advertising to certain audience's, but is no good at targeting the kind of audience that Hunt was hired to advertise for. Gibson realizes this and, in a panic, starts stealing Hunt's ideas as soon as he hears her thinking them. This offers him a temporary reprieve from the possibility of getting fired, but it also means that he is getting deeper and deeper into a job he in woefully unqualified for, and once Hunt leaves he'll have no ideas to put forward. It is also bad because Gibson realizes that he has majorly screwed over a person who had done nothing to him personally, and he feels guilty about it. This is what we, the non-sociopathic segment of the general population, call "being a decent person".
10) Yes, Gibson grovels, but, guess what? Everything is his fault! He tells her he undermined her at every step, which he did, and that all his ideas were actually hers, which they were, and that he can't do her job, which he can't. All those things were clearly and painstakingly established during the movie.
11) How is Hunt selfish? Even though Gibson one-ups her at every turn, instead of being jealous or resentful, as many of us would be, she congratulates him, offers to help him if he needs it, and later on admits that he is much better than she is and therefore deserves the job (none of which is true, but she doesn't know that).
12) Yes, she does fire him. Who but the most dysfunctional and emotionally maladjusted freak would take such enormous betrayal without feeling anger? All things considered, her equanimity is rather extraordinary.
13) About his job loss, yeah, I'll give you that one too. They do treat it as not too important, which of course it is. However, it is very much deserved. By continuously lying about his abilities and accomplishments, he got a much better qualified co-worker fired and screwed his company out of a valuable asset. The fact that he realizes this and wants to make amends speaks loudly in his favor.
14) "Feminist propaganda tripe and highly mysandrist."? Yes, unquestionably. The movie you imagine having seen is certainly this, however, it is not the movie that actually aired.

Now, this movie isn't any sort of paragon of gender equality or progressive rights, nor does it have the most carefully crafted script, but this sort of commentary is simply ridiculous. I don't where this criticism comes from, but I can say that it does not come form anything shown on the screen.

More than was necessary, I guess, but sometimes a good rant really hits the spot!

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Hats off to you Valhar, you completely get it. There are lots of men who hate to see women succeed at anything and will find things wrong with it when they do, so we have to work twice as hard to prove ourselves. I don't care about exceeding beyond what a man can do (although I'd smile if I did), I just want to be treated as an equal when I do my equal share. The movie is about a chauvinistic man realizing that women aren't just parking spots for his penis.

I thought it's funny when he starts acting gay, because gay men are the nicest and most understanding guys around, therefore women are naturally attracted to them, because it's all we want- a guy who will listen to our inane babble, worries, quirks, and understand- not blame us for being on our periods or whatever.




"The unopened package was a waterproof, solar-powered, satelite phone"- Robert Zemeckis, Cast Away

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Cheese Messiah: you must have watched a different movie than I did.
At no time during What Women Want did I feel that Nick Marshall (Mel Gibson's character) was being ridiculed or humiliated. Marshall is portrayed as a success driven, egotistical executive and a womanizer after his failed marriage. When you say he is forced to dress as a woman for no apparent reason you seem to forget he's only trying to put himself (voluntarily) in a woman's shoes to come up with advertising ideas for the feminine products Darcy McGuire gave him in a box at their first meeting. But McGuire did not single him out: she gave the same box to every other person at that meeting. I don't remember Helen Hunt's character ever being smug or rude. In fact she warms up to him quickly after she appreciates his ideas being exactly like hers, not knowing he's just hearing her thoughts. And let's not forget Marshall is a highly appreciated executive at the advertising company and was in line to get her job (and the corresponding promotion) before she was hired. The reason her ability is not questioned is because we're informed she's a well known and successful executive in the industry even before taking this new job.
And at no point is Gibson ever seen as gay. This is simply an excuse he concocts to get out of a relationship with Lola (played by Marisa Tomei) after he sleeps with her and she stalks him. And, about the ending, Marshall had every reason to apologize to Darcy because he used her (stealing her ideas as he heard them) and undermined her position at the agency directly causing her being dismissed. Dan Wanamaker, company boss (played by Alan Alda) clearly said so when asked by Marshall why had he fired her. He said: "we don't need her. You can do the job as well or better than her". When she "fires him" after his apology 30 seconds don't quite go by before she runs into his arms as he is leaving.
I don't understand where you got the ideas you posted here. Like I said...maybe you watched a different film.

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