Good movie when Goth isn't lambasted *possible spoilers* - My First Mister (2001) Discussion

[–] 21 years ago

[deleted]

Man, I thought this movie would have been really good except for the fact that she was goth. I missed the point of your whole post. Why did she show him her cuts? Christ, cutting is such bull. Anyone who says they're not doing it for attention is full of shit. Anyway, the fact that goth is a style of dressing doesn't bother me as much as the fact that it's a whole goddam lifestyle.
And I can say this because I used to be goth. I used to cut so that people would think "oh poor poor girl amanda what's wrong?" and i would be like "boo hoo i'm so depressed". cutting and goths are a load of crap.
At least goths are funny. http://www.happyscrappy.com/goth.html
I apologize for my rudeness. I just have very strong opinions on this subject.
ACMK

reply

[–] some124get 20 years ago

I think the cutting thing was meant to be a big cry for attention. The fact she just showed him out of nowhere kinda makes you think she just wanted to give him another reason to feel sorry for her. I love this movie, I wish the DVD had more features. It deserves better.

Boy, Happy Days had a lot of great moments.

reply

[–] darksoulnohope 20 years ago

I consider myself Goth yet I don't cut myself, if you do something because everyone else is doing it, then it is a trend. If you cut because you were trying to get attention, you defantly did it in the wrong way. (suicide isn't a good way either) I don't cut myself, nor wear fangs, or white powder over my skin and I don't even have black hair (I have actually naturally 3 diffrent colors on my head, from brown to bleach blonde) The best way to get attention is to actually talk to people about your problems! Though you will have to deal with the fact if those people actually listen to you or ignore you. My strong opinions deal with the fact that there are some goths left who are the real outcasts and not doing it because it's "cool" or "mysterious". I am ignored because I do what I wish as an individual and express myself in my OWN way. I have had many various problems and occurances in my life that caused me to be the way I am now. If you are not a goth because it was a trend for you, then fine, some of us actually are because we are attacked for being individuals instead of following the leader and looking the way we do (though we don't have to, we do it for our own reasons).

reply

[–] glitteringshoals 20 years ago

funny, i didn't know bleach blonde was a natural color.
The goth that I don't like is the goth that shops ONLY at hot topic. Isn't it hypocritical to make fun of "preps" for shopping at abercrombie, gap, AE, etc, when goths only shop at one store?
I agree with you, to get attention you should talk to people about your problems. But not just anyone, because most people don't want to hear that crap.
But see, isn't there a difference between being a goth and an outcast? I mean, I think outcast, I think someone who is seperated from the group, not by choice. Goths (the ones i've met) seem to seperate themselves because they think they're better than everyone else.
Anyway, how is being goth experssing yourself your own way if kids all over the country are doing the same thing? I don't know you personally or anything, but by my definition of goth (hot topic!), goths are the farthest thing from original possible.
I really think of goth as a style of dressing and an attitude than a way of life, because there can be people who are typically goth (ie: depressed, cutting, etc) but dress like "preps"...
Sorry to get so technical about all this social stuff.
I guess my main point is being goth isn't being original or standing out or being different, it's just a different category of the same thing.
I just don't understand why someone would dress the way goths do (again, i'm thinking the typical /average goth, such as J in this movie) for their own personal reasons... it seems like something that someone would do to get attention or reactions or something.
Anyway, you don't have to respond, sorry for my disorganized thoughts.

That little punk drove a golf cart through my bar mitzvah, that & he was dressed up like a beaver!

reply

[–] darksoulnohope 20 years ago

To get "technical" myself, I didn't know bleach blonde was natural either! But there it is, right above my ears going up along my forehead. Now for me the only reason I would shop at hot topic is to get inexpensive clothing or complation CDs for my Disk Jockeying, other then that reason hot topic is pretty much no use to me. I go to independant stores in the east village and other areas of NYC in order to pick out my waredrobe (expensive, but long lasting and worth it) though I can understand that there are people that don't have those type of stores nearby and are forced to go to Hot Topic when they don't have a choice if they want to do their own thing. (for me "nearby" is a ride of two hours by train!) I don't personally shop at one store myself that is just gothic, I get cotton sweaters, cotton and velvet shirts and Pants at Express Men, as well as finding deerskin leather jacket and other clothes too at other stores, indy and large buisness. An Goth is considered an outcast from "normal" society, the type where you get lovingly treated as long as you conform to their wishes and must shop at Abercrombie, Gap, AE, ect :-D and if you are not stylish or trendie, you most likely will find yourself outside the social circle, lace trim or not :-D. Goths group together to feel better and to relate to people who are similar to them, it would be like a normal social group, but what social group gets condemned for dressing like we do or some event happens that may even only remotely related to the subculture, you see all these so called "experts" calling for banning of goth clothing and behavor. I have my own style and I don't wear the same clothes all the time, but ones creativity is always measured by working towards it. Now there is no real "typical" goth, I don't cut, though I am depressed (thanks to a imbalance of chemicals inside my head I can't control) and dealing with it. You know it doesn't matter who you are, everyone has feelings, most Goths just express it outwards instead of keeping it inside. Sorry for my disorganized thoughts :)

reply

[–] glitteringshoals 20 years ago

"An Goth is considered an outcast from "normal" society, the type where you get lovingly treated as long as you conform to their wishes and must shop at Abercrombie, Gap, AE, ect :-D and if you are not stylish or trendie, you most likely will find yourself outside the social circle, lace trim or not :-D."

Whoa. So I am "an goth" now? I frequently shop at used/vintage/consignment shops. I don't consider myself stylish or trendy (i wear old t shirts that i get for $3... my favorite is pink with a lobster throwing dice that says "live it up!" also a lot of skirts; my favorite is purple and tan plaid).
So, when I wear these clothes, I'm "an goth." When I'm alone at lunch, I'm "an goth"? What about the "nerds", they wear pants that come up past their belly buttons and plaid shirts? Whether or not Gap or Abercrombie or AE, "ect :-D" carry these things (or ever did), you can guarantee they're from a "discount" store. So, by your definition, these kids are goths.
But, again, I'm confused. Finding yourself outside "the social circle"- which social circle? Because, isn't the goth "community" a social circle?
What clothes do you buy at hot topic that are inexpensive? Pants there are $50 and up, shirts are no less than $17.
The real thing that bugs me is how hypocritical goths are. They claim to be "condemned" by those unlike them, yet they make comments like "I hate preps" and are rude to their faces. I don't think goths are looked down upon by these people because of the way they dress, but because of their rude attitude.
As I stated previously, I dress "differently." People make fun of my clothes somewhat frequently. However, I still talk to and get along with the "preps" at my school. Sure, I don't hang out with them and get drunk at parties with them, but I'm friendly to them and they're friendly to me. I really just think the main thing seperating the goths from everyone else is their attitudes.
I think the reason they express their feelings "outwards" is really just to get attention, like in "My first mister."
Anyway, I appreciate your cordial response.
That little punk drove a golf cart through my bar mitzvah. Not only that, he was dressed up like a beaver!

reply

[–] DJFcak266 20 years ago

ya know, the thing that burns me up is that goth kids say preppy kids always make fun of them gor wearing their clothes, but goth kids make fun of kids who wear american eagle & abercrombie & gap. its completely hypocritical. but see, preppy kids arent mean about it. they just talk amongst each other about that they only think its unstylish, but w/e its how they dress. but goths are mean and malicious when it comes to putting down preps for wearing their clothes.
example: the other day my preppy friend walked into a classroom to give papers to a teacher and there was a group of goth kids sitting in a corner and they actually hissed at her! then when she walked out, they said "yeah, thats right, leave you preppy-ass bitch!"
and what the fu*k is so bad at shopping at american eagle and abercrombie and hollister and gap?

--------------------------------------------------
***Jennifer Aniston's #1 Fan***

reply

[–] darksoulnohope 20 years ago

You are whoever you want to be. The reason Goths call themselves Goths is of because how they embrace the darker forms of life and most likely read, watch, write, or even create through these ideals their own art and music. (I would say litature as well, but I already explained "write" :) ) Goth isn't based upon the superficial elements of dress, it is more of an internal sense of mind. But to tell you the truth, even if I didn't call myself a Goth, I would still dress the same because I enjoy the way I dress and I am the way I am for myself alone. You are correct about the additudes though, it has changed over time from distinct apathy to wrongful anger and resentment which hurts the idea of what Goth is. Though there are elements that attack goths and other outsiders (of "normal" society), such as cable television news, religious groups, "family" groups, school dress codes, (do you really want to dress alike while in public school being told to think alike?) and other elements that hurt the idea of individuality. To answer your hot topic question, the pants and shirts I get from NYC run from 70 - 120 on occasion (sometimes hirer) and shirts (especally frocked) go 80 - 130 (or higher) on occasion, place I go to is much more wider selection then Hot Topic, and yes with their quality it is worth it. I have been out of high school for a while, but for me it wasn't just my clothes, it was my writing and other works that the teachers and faculity put down when I showed an ounce of creativity! More later, after I sleep, lol

reply

[–] Klaus_Eaves 20 years ago

Oh goodness. It is obvious that the creator of this thread has a grasp on what Goth is, but left the post wide open for attacks. The truth is, Goth has absolutely nothing to do with cutting or acting depressed or blah blah blah blah. The Gothic subculture erupted from music--music that erupted from punk music. The subculture continued to pull in certain things into itself which all contributed to the creation of it, including the preceding Gothic literature, but still the roots of it are from music. MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC! That is the keyword. No cutting, no acting depressed, no Satan worship. Nada.

But what about the cutting in the movie, you ask? J's cuts (or were they burns? I never figured that one out) and reasons for showing them to R were for attention, yes. It was her way to say, "R, I really want you to trust me and I want my own apartment." She thought that her life at home was a miserable one, even though it isn't too horrible, and she realizes that it is not near the end of the movie. Her cutting had absolutely nothing to do with her gothnicity (yes, I made the word up).

Well, that is all I can explain at this moment. Must leave.

reply

[–] mars-volta 20 years ago

ya right a music that says 'satan says cut yourself and wear black' lol. goth should be renamed to "gayth" hahaha that would be helarious

leielie skobowleski plays a graet gayth

if you wana see a awesome movie about gayths go see life as a house it is so realistic it blows my mind and then some oh yeah also see the craft that is a very gayth movie

real gayths listen to marilyn manson and watch the craft i know a few and they lvoe the craft

reply

[–] Klaus_Eaves 20 years ago

Oh my goodness. I hope you are joking. Go and listen to some real goth music; The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, KMFDM, VNV Nation, Cinema Strange, Clan of Xymox, Dead Can Dance and there are many more to add to that list. Neither of them involve Satan or promote parasuicidal activity.

I own and like Life as a House, and would like to tell you that there isn't a Goth in the entire movie.

(Oh, and Manson is not goth. Many metalheads will even tell you that he isn't METAL. I will also tell you that your use of "gayth" and grammar proves to me that you must be some polluted 12 year old.)

reply

[–] CaptHowdysFreak 20 years ago

i really like how leelee portrayed jay...most people think goths are creepy punks who hang out with ther creppy punk friends and listen to creepy punk music...and in fact the people who consider themselves goth are the ones who try so damn hard to be that creepy punk person...i really like how jay was written...as this sad lonely person like alot of weirdos are...but i have to say one thing everyone (not specifically in this thread) keeps talking about how she changes and becomes all mainstream with her weirdo boyfriend (who i must say is incredibly hot...ghost ship yaya) but i really dont think thats the deal i think she just grew out of the whole externaliztion thing...like many weirdos eventually do...but really she didnt become all that normal...i mean at the end shes not at some club or drinking beer at a party shes laying on a grave...there are some things alot of people dont understand or like about the film because they dont understand a few of the simple facts about the whole goth punk emo indie alternative lifestyle...

reply

[–] musicislife77 20 years ago

I think you all are wayyy to stuck on the "Goth" thing. I, myself, am popular. I'm not saying this to be condesending, but to merely make a point. I shop at the Gap, American Eagle, TSX, and a few times Hot Topic. I like different music than my friends, but that doesn't make me Goth, or less likeable. I agree that Goth people in my school are very mean to the so called "preps." I was sitting in technology class next to a friend, and a girl who considers herself "punk" (because she knows lyrics to some Good Charlotte song) came up to us and said "You are such preppy bitches."
Now, my town is small, and everyone knows everyone, so this wasn't some random thing. This girl and I have been having problems since the fifth grade. I just think if people were more open minded everyone would be nicer. I'm not saying that the world should be sunshine and giggles, but I don't think you need to be rude and mean because you are a Goth, Punk, Prep, or a self proclaimed genius. This is one of my favorite quotes:

"Prep, Goth, Punk... Real people don't need labels."

reply

[–] mrsmcfly 20 years ago

Err... ookay then. My friend's little brother asked her what a 'goth' was. She answered by saying, 'a stereotype.' Must add that this friend, my best friend actually, is probably one of the geekiest people in the history of the earth, bifocals and all. But I love her. Her older brother and I pretty much share the same lifestyle, share make-up, etc. I'm one of those few 'goths' (I hate calling myself that, it sounds so... shall I venture, poseur?) who isn't fat nor completely anorexic, and looks actually good in black lipstick (I cannot say the same for my friend's brother in regards to the lipstick.)

Also, I am proud to say I have never stepped foot in a Hot Topic. Which is more than I can say for most hipsters. Bloody hipsters and poseurs. And I don't mean poseurs in a 'I am superior to thou' way, I mean it in a , 'stop trying to be what you aren't, because it's really really depressing, even to me' way. Nor do I act depressed for the 'look.' Powder, yeah. Eyeliner, of course. Lipstick, definitely. Hot Topic, never ever, would rather die. There are a bunch of stores downtown that sell the most awesome clothes, and while they're pricy, you're not going to walk into the nearest Gap and see a preppy wearing the same Emily the Strange t-shirt as you.

I listen to whatever I like, don't really care if it's not in the 'goth' handbook. I listen to the Bauhaus, yeah. Echo and the Bunnymen, love 'em. But, I mean, I listen to the Stones, Beatles, Enigma, PJ Harvey, Placebo, Nick Drake (I worship him), Dead or Alive (I worship them even more), everything. On the note of music, don't get me started on how many freaking people whose heads I felt like tearing off because they became 'huge AFI fans' after they heard 'Girl's Not Grey' on the radio. Gag. I mean, at least go back to the early stuff, first couple of records, and then, if you become a fan, awesome. But don't even start calling yourself a fan of any band after you hear their first pop tune come up on the radio between Simple Plan songs. Also, someone should put a hit on Good Charlotte... maybe spare the guitarist, he's hot.

Okay, very sorry for going all over the place with this post, just felt like venting on this stupid subject.

Mathilda, don't you ever do that again or I'll break your head, you got that?

reply

[–] pink_bowtie 20 years ago

i despise hot topic. its so stupid! back in the 80s and some 90s goth people had to make all those clothes that tripp and other stupid brands make. they went out and bought a dog collar for a stud cuff instead of going to hot topic and spending 30 bucks on one! they had to attach their own goddam zippers! hot topic has ruined what so many people stand for.

reply

[–] ShizaMinelli 17 years ago

mean, I think outcast, I think someone who is seperated from the group, not by choice. Goths (the ones i've met) seem to seperate themselves because they think they're better than everyone else.

Well, not necessarily. I mean, you can be an outcast by choice and NOT be goth. That's how I was in HS. It wasn't necessarily that I thought I was better than everyone else, I just simply didn't have the patience to listen to kids whine about their girlfriend not calling or getting grounded when I was working 50+ hours a week and struggling to pay for rent, groceries and HS tuition while also worrying myself to DEATH about how I would pay for college. Maybe in a way I thought I was above all that stuff, but it was actually for good reason. Even now, I just want to smak most of the emo kids into reality.

myspace.com/gwenstefanihumpedmyback

reply

[–] kralc404 18 years ago

i dont cut myself, nor have i ever cut myself, but i do however have friends who do, and let me tell you, its not just for attention. i could understand people thinking its wrong or bad, but it is not "stupid". people who cut themselves need an outlet for their angst, and they feel cutting themselves is the best way. its not true, but you should try to understand how they must feel instead of just closing up their emotions to a quick statement like "its stupid" or "anyone who cuts is an idiot".

reply

[–] Ceridwen_123 14 years ago

you are so full of *beep* first of all being a whinny attiention seeking bitch and pretending you are a cutter isnt apart of being a goth. not all goths act like that i should no because i am one. i do not cut and i dont whiny about the down fall to live i am a very positive person. so knock off all the sterotype bull *beep*

reply

[–] fakefighter 20 years ago

I dunno. I couldn't care less for goths.

reply

[–] vampykitty77 19 years ago

Does anyone know what happens when a 'goth' or 'prep' or 'jock' grows up? They become human. Here's some advice from an adult: Do what you like. Wear what you like. Eat, drink, talk, watch, listen, feel what you want. The minute you label someone else by how they dress or talk or act, you're labeling yourself too, as a bigot. You are not better than anyone else. I am not better than you. You are not better than me. Grow up and get over it already, it won't matter in 5 or 10 years anyway.

reply

[–] tangsting 19 years ago

Awesome post vampy.

And Hot Topic is the same as any other store in the mall, it sells stuff you don't need at inflated prices. Although I bought a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Shirt there. And its awesome. So there.

I'm 27 and I like cartoons....what?

reply

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] zombie_master 19 years ago

I'm sorry but I don't really understand this rukus about what the girl is - a goth. I think the story was simply choosing extreme contrasts. A young, gothic woman and an older conservative man. The story stresses their RELATIONSHIP in the film, and it puts second who they are, and first who they are when they are TOGETHER. Each character has a different perspective of each other and this perspective on each other is what is most important in the film. The film is about learning to understand, and eventually to love the other side, the opposite. The film is simply each of these equally wonderful and complex characters intruding on the other's life, and exploring it. Although sad, in the end, the characters learn an immense amount from each other, and have a very unique love for each other - in the end it's not EXCLUSIVELY about the girl being a goth, I believe the character was shaped this way because of the confusion and misunderstanding that surrounds gothics, so this in the end produces so much beauty in that her man-friend was able to eventually love and understand her, and learn about her lifestyle - and vice-versa. This includes the "cutting" parts that are shown. In the end they respect each other. It's not about goths, it's about respecting something one never thought they would understand.

reply

[–] LilMissMousie 19 years ago

I'm not going to read any of that crap but uh, leave Marilyn out of "not goth" *beep*

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Time for some kind of poetic signature... what was I going to say?

reply

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Ferago 18 years ago

What are you talking about? This movie used every typical hollywood stereotype for goths it could find...The first half of the movie was pretty lame (although it got much better)

reply

[–] hw001j6329 17 years ago

I think it's annoying that in hollywood movies that they portray goth characters as being manic depressive people when in reality goths are just like anybody else and I have always found them to be some of the nicest people you can meet.I don't see why a goth character can't just be happy with who they are and not just sell out at the end of the movie like clea duvall did at the end of the faculty when she got the high school football player and discovered that she something other than black in her wardrobe.This movie however while it did tick some of the stereotypical goth boxes did show the character of J in a good light.

reply