MovieChat Forums > Shôjo kakumei Utena (1997) Discussion > Puzzling end

Puzzling end

posted 19 years ago by IkuharaKunihiko
10 replies | jump to latest

Did anyone get the ending?

To me a lot of the questions remaind unanswered like what Akio really was. I mean, I know he was the prince, but what kind of a being exactly was that "prince"?

In a play it was said that "the prince, who was the light, was captured by a witch in a castle". And there were hints that the witch was Anthy.

And then again, Anthy was the one who was captured: she took the role of the rose bride which required to take the pain of the world away from the suffering prince. Talk about confusing!!! What was the prince donig anyway?
And what was Touga? He saved Utena when she was a kid too. Isn't he a prince too?

I think the movie gave a lot better hints about everything. In the film it was obvious that Akio raped Anthy and that all the weird things could be her confused point of view.

[–] nemuro8 19 years ago

This is my interpretation...:

Akio and Anthy once were the same person but somehow got separated into individuals.

Akio symbolises the evil in a person. Anthy symbolises the good in a person. However Anthy can not exist on her own she needs that second part. So the duels start to find that other part. Each duelist embodies certain qualities; adoration, courage, love, etc...

The winner of the final duel will join with Anthy and be whole. Though Akio tries to steal the winner and become whole, leaving Anthy in her dream world and him in the real world. Then Utena comes in, she embodies everything good. Akio the devil and Anthy the witch both prey on her innocence. Now onto Touga....

Touga is just another duelist except he tries to join Utena and him together and become whole but she rejects him as Anthy is the perfect match... The significance of Touga changes in the movie. The movie is completely different to series so thats a different story.

The sacrifice of Anthy was a sacrifice to Akio, she still was a part of him and Akio relied on her pain to keep her dreaming. To sustain the dream. When Utena takes the place of the sacrifice, Anthy wakes up. Utena becomes part of Anthy and they leave for the real world. Everyone else stays dreaming including Akio. Utena and Anthy cease to exist as individuals and become the same.

Confusing? Yes it is...

[–] IkuharaKunihiko 19 years ago

I think that's a very good theory, nemuro8. It works.

One thing, though. If Utena became a part of Anthy, why then did Anthy say in the final episode at the end:"One day I will find you, Utena"? Judging by that I got an impression that Utena became the prince and that Anthy went on a journey to find her, this time.

What do you think?

[–] yarrumlib 19 years ago

Yeah, I got that idea too. It seemed more likely that Utena changed her role with the prince and that Anthy took Utena's "role", the one of the girl searching for the prince. Nemuro8's theory is very good, but it doesn't work completely.

[–] sojiroseta52 19 years ago

Heres the thing about the Series Ending:It challenges the viewer to come to their own conclusion.
I first watched the ending years ago will two of my friends and we each had different opinions on what the hell happened.Heres what we came up with...

Akio was a Prince(or an angel or GOD itself)he fought for the World and turned girls into Princesses(read:Normal Girls following their roles in life).The only one he couldn't turn was Anthy.She loved him deeply and when he couldn't fight anymore she imprisoned him(read:seal his power).The world hated Anthy and punished her,Dios(the Prince) losted his power,became Akio(read:The Devil),and Anthy became the Rose Bride.

The POINT to the Duels was to form a person who would take the role of the Prince(with a Noble Heart) so Akio could reclaim his power(using the Princes sword) and become the World's Savior again.

During the Final duel,Utena said it herself:"I WILL become the Prince" seconds after she said this the Statue/Grave of Dios crumbled,the seal was finally broken.Just like Dios,Anthy tried to once again seal Utena's Power(by stabbing her in the back) doing so produced the "Million Swords of Hate" and she took the pain of the Prince.Utena overcame everything,Openned the Doors of Revolution, and released Anthy,the REAL Anthy.Utena became the prince and took the pain of the Swords upon herself.

The Voice Overs of some Girls mention during the credits on what they(read: The Viewers) think happened to her.Next, we're shown whats happenned to the Duelists.Simplely,they have completely changed(Thanks to the Revolution).Anthy leaves Ohtori...The End?Thats what makes this such a great series:Its not a series you can watch just once,you get more out of it for each viewing...Of course,thats one opinion.There are more out there =)

[–] Ashnod 18 years ago

Each version of Utena is told differently - at this point there are FOUR versions of the story and each of them end differently: the manga, the anime, the movie manga, and the movie. This is done deliberately - with each retelling of the story the story itself is changed while keeping most of the core themes intact. It's impossible to use one to justify the other - each version is a separate retelling and things will contradict each other.

What seems to be consistent between the original manga and the anime is that the Revolution has not yet happened: the world waits for it's revolution and will wait until the day when Utena and Anthy are re-united.

What is concrete in all versions: Akio WAS the Rose Prince at one point, Anthy is his sister. In the manga, Dios and Akio were split halves of the same entity, and you can draw easy symbolism there from the fact that Dios is a name for God and Akio a variant on Lucifer. The anime doesn't cover this, and it's completely dropped come the movie and the movie manga.

There's a lot of debate in Utena fandom over whether or not the Duelists in the anime were actually changed by anything but themselves - I personally feel that nothing but life altered the Duelists, if indeed they were altered at all. The manga has the Duelists, save Touga, forget that Utena was ever there (this is strongly referenced in the anime by Akio in his final conversation with Anthy).

Touga and Saionji made up during the course of the series, and we see signs that Kozue is ready to reconcile with Miki, as well Shiori with Juri before the Duel Named Revolution ever takes place. Nanami has reconciled with everyone including Utena, save for Touga, but there are strong hints she has moved beyond him.

LIFE happened at Ohtori, and assumedly, after the cloud of the Rose Seal was lifted from their lives, everyone moved on. Like Mikage from the Black Rose Arc, the Duelists were held back by the Rose Seal. This was of course necessary for Akio's plans, but once he had no more use for them, they were free to grow again (also referenced in the Black Rose Arc, by Mamiya's speech about pickled flowers).

We know that Utena opened the Rose Gate and released Anthy, past that it's hard to determine what Ikuhara was wanting to be "concrete" and what was just visually cool symbolism. The director himself has all but admitted that much of the symbolism is things he just felt looked cool or intriguing - the collapse of the Dueling Arena, Anthy falling from Utena's grasp - these are all very hard things to reconcile if you believe Akio that the Dueling Arena was nothing more than the highest level of the Chairman's Tower (I don't believe him on this, myself, as it contradicts almost everything about the series), and could just be symbolic of what happened and not a literal playing out of the events.

[–] aijekillerx 18 years ago

I agree, wholeheartedly, sojiroseta52.

See, at the end of the series I found myself saying "I wanna see what happens when Anthy goes off to find Utena." But then I thought, "Oh... but that's what the movie is isn't it?" Or not. I saw the movie before I finished the show, I'll have to rewatch it to affirm or disprove my assumption.

I sat down on the couch with my stepsister and came up with an alternate ending.

TEN YEARS LATER:

Utena: Oh, Anthy, I've been waiting so long to have tea with you.
Anthy: Why, Utena, you're looking so well.
Utena: Thanks, Anthy. Touga?

*Touga comes out in an apron serving tea*

Come on guys, it would SO be one of those random moments in Utena.

[–] tedne 18 years ago

Hooray! that is the best Utena fanfic I have read so far!

[–] hiroshiyata 18 years ago

I don't completely understand the ending either, but I interpreted the ending a bit more literally/differently than other people on this board.

Dios was the prince, a crutch basically for everyone on earth, and Anthy was his sister who took on all of the pain for him. It's difficult to figure out whether the flashbacks involving Dios and Anthy are 'real', or if they're just symbolic for whatever Dios or Anthy happen to be. In any case, Dios was definitely 'a prince', and he became Akio after this turn of events. The power struggle between Akio and Anthy is very clear to see. As someone else on here said, the concept of Dios as God and Akio as the Devil are good ideas to keep in mind.

I'm not sure that anyone, even Akio, know what's going on with the rose seal or the 'revolution'. How this came about is difficult to determine, but Dios/Akio's connotation with God/Devil might have something to do with it. In any case, Akio has probably attempted to open the rose seal numerous times, because his staging of Ohtori Academy and Utena is extremely meticulous (he even has specific time frames for people's breakdowns). His manipulation of Utena as a child was probably not the only time between then and middle school that he meddled in her life, but we only see him appeal to her as a child after her parent's death.

I don't believe that the rose seal actually has 'control' over the Duelists, just that Akio has a grip over their lives up until his last moments of needing them. Akio fully intended every duel to occur the way it did, so that Utena and the Rose Bride would become closer and Utena would be strengthened enough to be able to open the Rose Seal.

The fact that Utena was not able to open up the Rose Seal is interesting. Akio knew that "the power to revolutionize the world" was located inside, but obviously he didn't understand what this meant. As far as the viewer can tell, he must have assumed that the power to make him a prince again was located within. The chain of events that occur at the end of the series are difficult to figure out -- Utena opens the Rose Seal with her bare hands, releases Anthy from her prison, but takes her place instead. Akio doesn't become the prince again.

Why? Because Akio is not willing to sacrafice himself for Anthy. Recall the flashbacks to Dios and Anthy -- Dios is literally dying because the world is relying on him too much. And Anthy takes away his pain, by absorbing the hatred of the world. When Utena was willing to sacrafice herself to save Anthy, she was the one to absorb all the hatred. But what did she become -- another Rose Bride, a sacrafice, or a prince? The ending leaves certain things open to interpretation.

As for the comment about the Chariman's Tower "visualizing" everything, remember that this is a FANTASY series not a SCIFI series. If you think about the Chariman's tower projecting things through magic (and not through, say, science or technology) it makes more sense. If you watch the series over again you'll see numerous clues about Akio and Anthy having magical powers -- Anthy's shapeshifting curry, Akio jumping onto the front of his car, etc. And remember the sword falling into Juri's rose during the first season? There are plenty more but I can't remember them all...

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Mithrandir-Olorin33 9 years ago

In my view inspite of what Akio claims it wasn't him but a vision of the good Dios who appeared to Utena as a Child.

I think the key to understanding what Akio is comes from Hinu Mythology/eschatology. Akio is the Kali Demon (Not to be confused with the Goddess Kali).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_(demon)
Wikipedia has apparently removed the part that explain that the Kali Demon is also an aspect of Vishnu.

Dios is Vishu, Anthy is Lakshimi and/or Alakshimi and/or Padma, and Utena is the Kalki.

"There's no art to this war Spencer"-Alison DiLaurentis