I have seen the seen the Alec/Logan and Max/White fics and they are OK-ish as long as they are clearly labeled as alternative universe and the writers don't claim that they represent the series canon and that the characters in the fic behave exactly like they would do in the series.
AMEN to no OOC! But if you really think Alec/Logan and Max/White are "OK-ish" then you should have no problem with Max/Alec. The whole point of fan fiction is to play off of the cannon and play out the "what ifs". I'm sure there are tons of M/L fan fiction that have Max and Logan hooking up (and I mean pre-3rd book, if you take the books as cannon). By your definition those are all AU, but I'm guessing you have no problem with those not specifying AU.
I personally like to be more stingy with labeling AU, because on some level what
ISN'T AU? For example: Max never made it out of Manticore; the virus never happened; Logan died instead of being paralyzed from that gun shot; they're not transgenics, they're vampires and werewolves; etc... BUT, I'm not the fan fiction referee and you need to keep in mind that you aren't either. Fan fiction is the one place where the fandom belongs to all of us.
Regarding Alec/Logan, at least the brainwashed by Mia versions of them really liked each other.
This is somewhat off topic but I think "really liked" is going a
bit far. Alec feels 'Meh' about Logan, but his burgeoning morality recognizes and respects Logan's Eyes Only crusade. Logan on the other hand doesn't really have anything nice to say about Alec.
Alec: "Eh, he's all about saving the world, and doing good for others. It's really boring...but admirable."
Logan: "Well, it's just that...I don't know, sometimes I wish I was more of a free spirit, and...it must be nice to be a happy-go-lucky sociopath. Kinda envy you."
I don't think that they brought Max and Logan together too quickly.
I believe it was a writer/producer that admitted to this, I'm trying to remember where I read this so I can source it. I do agree with them.
In fact I am getting more and more annoyed of the habit of the producers/writers of TV shows to put one roadblock after another to prevent that the pairing gets together, which has been destined to get together right from the start of the series (in this case Max and Logan). In my opinion they indirectly admit with this behavior that they either suck at writing interesting love relationships or are afraid to do so. Since a few years I am following the ratings, renewals and cancellations of series on http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/. This has caused me to come to the conclusion that the writers better hurry if they want to tell their stories because otherwise they might not have time for it anymore because the series has been cancelled in the meantime.
Not everyone is a fan of "Will-they-won't-they" relationships, but there's a reason they are so popular. Scully and Mulder on X-Files, Castle and Beckett on Castle, Laureli and Luke on Gilmore Girls, House and Cuddy on House M.D., Bones and Agent Booth on Bones, Ross and Rachel on Friends, Jim and Pam on the Office, Carrie and Mr. Big on Sex and the City, Robin/Barney/Ted on How I Met Your Mother, Starbuck and Apollo on Battlestar Gallactica, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Some of the ones I listed ended up together (all after dating other people, sometimes LOTS of other people), some never got together at all (*beep* you writers of BSG).
I can get behind you on disliking cheap roadblocks that only serve to subvert a relationship. There's definitely a wrong way to do it, but I also think that there
is a right way, a.k.a. good writing and characterization. Many of the examples I listed above are evidence of that.
Unless a show is specifically marketed to be about a couple getting together--and even then it's not a sure thing--there's
NO such thing as a "destined-to-get-together" pairing. Sure, there was a time when we all thought Dawson and Joey on Dawson's Creek, Buffy and Angel (
literally SOULMATES) on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Sam and Diane on Cheers, were End Game. We would have been wrong.
This is pure conjecture, but I think that Joey and Dawson were supposed to be End Game, but chemistry is a funny thing. Katie Holmes and Joshua Jackson just had more of it and so the story adapted to work with that. Writers aren't loyal to the plot outline, they're loyal to good storytelling and that can lead them anywhere.
Furthermore, we don't even know if Max and Logan were supposed to be a couple to begin with. Jessica Alba was 17 when she was cast, I have my doubts that a 30 year old was cast with the intention of becoming her main love interest. I can see more of a mentor relationship plot outline while she sought out her siblings in Season One. I even think Zack was meant to be a love interest, but there was zero chemistry so it never happened.
Max was 9 years old as she escaped from Manticore Wyoming and it seemed that she grew up together with the kids who escaped with her. If you take her genetically enhancement into consideration, she might have had the maturity of a slightly older child back then. Since she was described as baby sister by other members of her unit, she at least must have spent large parts of her life with them until she escaped. They where sleeping/living together in a large dorm.
This is as much guessing as my analysis was, so neither of us can really be conclusive in terms of Max' unit upbringing. Really the only hard evidence we have is the fact that Zack develops feelings for Max despite that upbringing.
By the way, the producers/writers of Dark Angel described Max's and Alec's relationship as brotherly/sisterly in the audio-commentary on the American DVDs!
I did see your transcription of that (thanks for doing that BTW, I appreciate your commitment and evidence inclusion!) but it doesn't make M/A any less feasible to me. They do have a playful, sometimes violent, give and take, which can easily be described as brotherly/sisterly. But the fact stands that they are
not brother/sister. In
Some Assembly Required Alec turns to Max and says "Please tell me you're going to get naked." Not something you'd say to a sister. And like I said, in
Hello Goodbye Max almost leaves Alec for White to deal with, not something you'd do to your brother.
"What's a cat in heat to do?" This is the only scenario in which Max would have a one-night stand with Alec since she is out of control enough and suffering temporary insanity while being in heat.
Believing that's the only scenario they'd get together is as much of an opinion as me believing that there are countless. But believing that Max and Alec getting together could never happen is just plain incorrect. There was a possible treatment for the 3rd season (favored by the network and the main writers and producers) that had Logan becoming a transgenic blood junkie (to keep walking) causing him and Max to drift apart until she eventually falls for and gets together with Alec.
Regardless, not all M/A fans think M/A is End Game. Some think Logan is the better fit but they want Max and Alec to at least hook up or have a brief fling, and others want to see some M/A but think that someone else entirely should end up with Max. All of these opinions are legitimate, because they are opinions!
Even if Alec developed romantic feelings toward Max, it doesn't mean that she returns his affection.
Shipping Max and Alec as the OTP hardly ever has anything to do with believing that Max has romantic feelings for Alec. We know she wants to be with Logan. Instead it's about interpreting those feelings and motivations and exploring which circumstances would lead her to Alec and whether Alec might be a better match. One of the biggest staples of a Max/Alec fan fiction story is Max having to break through her own stubbornness and figure out who would actually make her happy. Her adamant proclamation that she wants and loves Logan is almost always addressed.
I said previously that there's no way to know whether Max is attracted to Alec, but I actually just remembered that she admitted to finding him sexually attractive in one of the last two books, (again, if you take those as cannon). Full disclosure, I didn't read the books, it was in a summary for one of them. If she does in fact find him attractive that basically kills the sibling argument (which again, I don't think it's a solid argument to begin with) and further opens up the potential for Max and Alec, especially as he continues to develop and mature.
You and other Max/Alec shippers really want that Max starts a relationship with a man-whore? (You yourself described Alec as that!) Do you dislike Max that much that you want that she has a lover who is sleeping around and unfaithful to her?
Yes, I did describe him as a man-whore, because he is somewhat hedonistic, especially right after he was released from Manticore. Although I can't really blame him since he's basically been incarcerated for the majority of his life.
Alec doesn't have feelings for his one night stands, it's just sex. When Alec has real feelings for someone he's the kind of guy that would blow his own cover, go against his deeply ingrained programming and turn against the only home he's ever known, effectively risking his own life all in an effort to save hers (as seen on
The Berrisford Agenda). It's easy to interpret Alec as having feelings Max and if so I really don't think he'd cheat on her.
Logan has a genius IQ, too! Otherwise he wouldn't have been that successful as Eyes Only and being able to study at the Yale University. Aside from having the money to do it, you also have to have a good performance in school and excellent grades respectively a very high SAT score in order to be able to study at an ivy-league University like Yale is. If it weren't for the glasses, I would say that Logan would be a good candidate as provider for some genes for future Manticore X-series. Logan might not be able to physically compete with Max or Alec because he isn’t a genetically engineered super soldier but physicality isn't everything.
I definitely agree that Logan is intelligent, he has to be to pull off the hacks for Eyes Only! I'm just not convinced that he has a genius level IQ (145+). I think the X5 series are all >145, especially with their photographic memories. Again, I wish this had been explored more on the show.
Logan might be a sufficient genetic donor, but based on their ability to splice and dice DNA, I doubt donors mattered. I always envisioned them designing the genetic code by computer, and only using human and animal snippets as inspiration/starting points from which to artificially build sequences to achieve the desired outcomes.
You're right that physicality isn't everything, but from an evolutionary biology perspective it is a big contributor to attraction and partner selection. Seeing as Max' DNA contains genetics mimicing more instinct driven animals, she might be more susceptible to this.
Zack was her equal too and Max still decided against him and her safety for several times in favor for her life inSeattle, her friends and co-workers and especially for Logan! (Max to Logan in season 2: "... I can't risk loosing you!") Max didn't seem bored while being around Logan!
I think it was clear that Max was not attracted to Zack, unlike Alec, she really does seem to see him as a brother, especially by how she reflexively reacts to Zack kissing her in
Some Assembly Required.
Max definitely cares for Logan, no one is arguing that she doesn't. I actually think that choosing Logan over Zack in
Some Assembly Required is something that could actually cause tension between Max and Logan in the future. She basically chose romance over "family" which is something she could come to resent about Logan. It's definitely what came to mind as I watched the episode for the first time.
I am glad that Jessica Alba and Michael Weatherly intervened behind the scenes because it prevented that season 2 got even worse. And I think that the one(s) who play the leading character(s) on a TV show should have some say in how the story goes, since (s)he/ they are the one(s) who carry the series, too!
I can't think of a polite way to react to that first sentence, so I'll just say that's EXTREMELY subjective. Threatening to walk, as the star, if your fiancee doesn't get his way is basically blackmail and totally unprofessional. And let's not forget that Weatherly's insecurity didn't arise until after Alec's character became more popular than his among fans. It had nothing to do with wanting to shoot a good show and everything to do with protecting Michael Weatherly's role. How can that ever be a recipe for a better show?
Actors do become producers and even executive producers sometimes, but it's after they've gained the esteem and trust of the team. Alba was pushing to have her and Weatherly become producers for Season Three. I honestly wonder whether the non-stop drama between Weatherly, Alba and the writers/producers is the best explanation as to why the show was actually cancelled despite adequate ratings and getting an initial green light.
I also think that their antics are what led to so many Max/Alec shippers. It's probably the cause of the rampant Belligerent Sexual Tension between Max and Alec. Jessica Alba was so against entertaining it that it became a case of "the lady doth protest too much". A great example of this is Alba's exaggeratedly unconvincing lap dance in
Gill Girl. Instead of discreetly communicating disgust and dislike while maintaining her cover, like Max did while impersonating a prostitute in the
Pilot, she goes out of her way to unsexualize the situation, which only served to display insecurity and defensiveness. Alec knows Max' in a relationship, she's made it clear what she thinks of Alec, so what's a highly trained super soldier have to be insecure or defensive about while under cover? I can think of one thing.
And I think that the never ending virus storyline robbed the M/L shippers from seeing Max and Logan in a happy relationship for at least a few episodes. So, please stop whining about being robbed. We M/L shipper have been robbed, too!
Comparing your dislike for the writer's story line to my disappointment over actors subverting planned story lines to benefit their own interests is hardly equal.
And your beloved Alec was a nuisance factor who put roadblocks into the process of finding a cure for the virus. For example, Max had to spend the money, which was destined to get a cure for the virus, to safe Alec's life. Because it was the right thing to do and not because she loved him or was attracted by him! And Alec carelessly gave Joshua Max's virus research notes to Joshua so that he could paint on them.
My "beloved Alec"? If you recall, I was drawn to Dark Angel because of Michael Weatherly! I'm basically the least biased person in the M/A vs M/L debate.
As far as "nuisance", you realize you're blaming a character over the writing, which doesn't even make sense? AGAIN, I'm not saying that Max had feelings for Alec, especially not in
Proof of Purchase which was like two days after the characters met. I don't think ANYONE in the entire thread has tried to prove that Max has feelings for Alec, yet you keep bringing it up.
In conclusion, and based on everything I've tried my best to explain, I hope you can better understand the Max/Alec pairing. Although I have a feeling you understand but just can't accept it. But WHY? If I wanted to I could argue at length as to why Max/Logan aren't the right pairing and why people would be crazy to ship it, but I won't. I accept your OTP, so learn to accept other people's OTPs! Fandom is love. I'm honestly just happy that this show ended 13 years ago and people are still willing to talk about it!! :)
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gkn_88
8 years ago
Just wanted to say that I agree with all your comments. Fan fictions are just that: Fiction made by fans. There are even fan fiction about "Drapple" (Draco Malfoy and his apple in the "Harry Potter" series). Compared to that Max & Alec together is no big deal. I myself would like to see Max with Rafer, and Alec with some other transgenic (or with Max, that WOULD be interesting). I would like to see Max with someone her own age, someone who might be in the same stage of life as her. I thought Max & Logan's relationship-but-not-really-a-relationship ended up being a really tiring storyline (maybe because of the writing), but that's just my opinion.
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bubblesluv
8 years ago
Thanks for the support babe! I'm a huge Max/Alec supporter, but I agree any alternate pairing options would have livened up the show and made it more interesting. The Max/Logan storyline really dragged things down, which is such a shame.
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