So her dad was a patient at the hospital. which one was he? And the patient who almost kills Bodo in the bathtub had the flashback to killing the woman in the tub - and we know that Sissi's mother died that way. So the guy is Sissi's brother?
shareI just saw the film today, and it seemed to me that the guy with the toaster was her father. The blind guy who ate glass might have been her brother, but it's a remote possibility at best.
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http://overratedfilms.blogspot.com <--hilarious
yes, good. But...
the guy with the toaster was the same guy she was providing sexual pleasure to in the beginning....and was he old enough to be her dad?
I hadn't thought of the glass eater as being her brother...that's an idea.
was he old enough to be her dad?
excellent. That all makes real sense. very smart of you to pick up on all that. Thank you for your help!
shareI just found this on one of the earlier postings:
by - skinmeister (Tue May 18 2004 15:02:21)
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Yup, Werner's the father. Tykwer mentioned it in the special features on the DVD.
Steini would have been way too young, anyway...
Yup, Werner's the father. Tykwer mentioned it in the special features on the DVD.
Steini would have been way too young, anyway...
great. So Werner was the dad. I am glad to know that conclusively.
Now, was Steini her brother? What do you think?
Sorry, I disagree.
The father is not mentioned in the movie at all as he left Sissi and her mom very early. In a black and white sequence (of the Greman version?), the mom is in a bathtub and then says, that men don't come back, even though they promise it. This indicates the situation, that the mom was living with her daughter Sissi (without any brother) in the hospital alone without any husband.
"Steini" is just a patient, who killed the mom due to jealousy as he is desperately/madly in love with Sissi. That is also the reason, why he is trying to kill Bodo with the same procedure as Sissi's mom.
I am not sure, if you have seen the scene, but Sissi is giving "Steini" a hand-job, which indicates, that he can't be the father. Sissi is doing it, because she just knows how to please and help other people with any effort without relying on her own feelings. She ist just developing those feelings to Bodo after the accident.
Werner is just another patient, who gets instructions by non-existing voices.
The blind guy is just another patient as well. Sissi likes him the most, because she loves to help and feels mostly the same like him (eg. when they are playing with the ice-cubes).
But at one point Sissi is asked about her father and she says "he is here". meaning he is in the asylum. I think she is talking to Bodo.
sharekeats272 is right, I think Sissi even says "er ist einer von denen" (he's one of them). And Tom Tykwer mentions it on the DVD audio commentary...
shareSorry, I have seen it a couple of times and I never heard that part in the German-Version and this also doesn't work with the story in my opinion:
if she was related to a patient in the hospital, wouldn't she say good-bye to the person or at least tell her working colleague, who is giving the car to them, to tell her father good-bye? Do you think, it would be so easy for her to leave her dad in this institution to runaway with Bodo?
Why would the mom say, that men don't come back even though they might promise it?
Ok, ich schreib das jetzt einfach mal auf deutsch...
Ich hab den Film einige Male gesehen und besitze die DVD. Ich weiß nicht mehr den exakten Wortlaut (bin auch gerade nicht zuhause, hab deshalb die DVD nicht zur Hand), aber Sissi sagt definitiv etwas zu Bodo, das den starken Eindruck hinterlässt, dass einer der Patienten ihr Vater ist. Und wie gesagt, Tom Tykwer sagt das auch im Audiokommentar.
Auf Tykwer Online http://www.tykwer-o nline.de/faq_e.htm#f ather findet sich folgendes:
"3.2.2. Who is Sissi's father?
Tom said in an online chat that Werner Dürr is actually Sissi's father. He's the older shy guy in the mental asylum who was always happy to see Sissi again, but who also beat her up at one point so she had to tie him to the bed. Unfortunately there wasn't enough time left during the chat for Tom to explain if there is actual proof in the film for this."
Jan Fischer, der die Seite gemacht hat, ist jetzt Online-Editor bei http://www.tomtykwe r.com/, der hat also schon ein bisschen Ahnung wovon er redet.
great. so that settles it.
but - do YOU think Steini was her brother?
but - do YOU think Steini was her brother?
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BUT>>>
why did Steini have a flashback to killing the woman (sissi's mom) with the toaster when he was going to kill Bodo?
> The father is not mentioned in the movie at all as he left Sissi and her mom very early.
Obviously you missed a few things – see my posting below and others in this thread.
> This indicates the situation, that the mom was living with her daughter Sissi (without any brother) in the hospital alone without any husband.
Actually it is said that her father is still living there!
> Sissi is giving "Steini" a hand-job, which indicates, that he can't be the father.
Huh? Why that? – That Steini can't be her father is simply indicated by his age! He is not even ten years older than Sissi.
> Yup, Werner's the father. Tykwer mentioned it in the special features on the DVD.
Correct. This was also my own guess in another thread on this board, because Werner is shown watching Sissi from a distance, especially when she leaves, much more often than others.
Assuming that Steini (the toaster guy) could be Sissi's father is pure nonsense, because he is way to young to be her father!
What some of you guys here are missing is that Sissi doesn't know WHO EXACTLY her father is, just that he is one of the patients ("einer von denen").
What some of you guys here are missing is that Sissi doesn't know WHO EXACTLY her father is, just that he is one of the patients ("einer von denen").
YES! We have established that Werner is her father.
The question is:
is Steini her brother?
As I said before, I don't think he is.
For one thing, they don't have the same last name. Also, wouldn't Sissi call him by his first name, if he was her brother, instead of using his nickname which simply is an abreviation of his last name?
yes...some very good points. I don't think we're going to be able to solve this.
I am still stuck on the flashback scene with the toaster. Why would Steini kill Sissi's mother?
Why would Steini kill Sissi's mother?
that's a good thought. hmmmm...
shareI just rewatched it.
What a few years make...
I can tell you now that Tykwer wanted to bite more than he could chew when he wrote this movie. The first 45 minutes could have easily been shorter. It's just a prologue to the main story that begins once she goes looking for Bodo at the cabin.
I think he didn't do a very good job trying to connect the many dots that he laid there just to make the movie seem smarter. Don't get me wrong - it's nice but I think he thought it would be deeper and more meaningful than what it is.
He has serious problems when editing - and he has not corrected that as I can tell by his credits. He directed the episode "What's going on?" of Sense8 which was the last drop for me of that horrible trainwreck of series.
> For one thing, they don't have the same last name.
IMHO that doesn't matter, because Sissy could have been given a different last name by means of not revealing her ancestry.
> Also, wouldn't Sissi call him by his first name, if he was her brother, instead
> of using his nickname which simply is an abreviation of his last name?
I know a lot of girls calling their brothers by nickname. However, Sissi doesn't necessarily have to know if Steini is herbrother or not - I also don't think he actually is her brother, though.
I know it doesn't prove anything, but still..
IMHO that doesn't matter, because Sissy could have been given a different last name by means of not revealing her ancestry.
> Sissi can only have her mother's last name.
I didn't mean Sissi's ancestry only on her father's side ...
> Basically the only way Sissi and Steini could be brother and sister and
> not share the same last name would be that Sissi's mother divorced Steini's
> father and then took back her maiden name before giving birth to Sissi.
Maybe you're a liitle bit too stuck in German deadlocked bureaucratic mindset ;)
> Of course, that's possible, but I don't consider it very likely.
Neither do I .. see above. I just said "it's possible" as well.
> Another thing, I think that if we were meant to believe that Sissi and
> Steini are brother and sister, they would have made it more obvious.
> For example, by revealing that they share the same last name (they could
> have done that at the end, when Steini calls the police).
Well ... I think you expect Tykwers films to be something different from what they actually are :) – Subtle, in the first place.
Well ... I think you expect Tykwers films to be something different from what they actually are :) – Subtle, in the first place.
> but I never thought about Steini being Sissi's brother before I read this thread.
Same here :))
Excellent. I am glad you hadn't picked up on it or thought about it. It makes me feel special! Or paranoid and reading into things too much.
"that's whatcha get for Riverdancing in a thong." - Brad Sherwood
i thought stieni was having a flashback to killing his own mother, the reason he was put in the ward in the first place. he thought it was gonna work out the same but bobo catches the toaster.
reagarding stieni being her brother. WHY WOULD SHE BE JACKING OFF HER BROTHER. especially when you guys think he killed her mother. i think hes just in love with her
I think it WAS her brother. Their relationship was incestuous. Sissi came to care for him in the asylum after he killed their mother. Remember the letters in the beginning? The country sister sent one to her brother - and "look Sissi, there's one for you too!" (With the bank documents in it.) When he tried to kill Bodo, having a flashback to killing his own mother. The first draft of this film was over 3 1/2 hours long. Much was cut, but I loved it anyway. It made sense to me. Brilliant.
shareRemember the letters in the beginning? The country sister sent one to her brother - and "look Sissi, there's one for you too!" (With the bank documents in it.)
I'll look at it again. This film was mesmerizing. Thanks!
shareI think I'll join the "Yes, he was her brother" team. Here's why:
Imagine you want to kill someone... say your boss, for example. Now, of all the possible ways to kill a person, would you EVER opt for the curling-iron-in-the-bathtub method? That's sortofa stretch. You'd have to figure out when your boss takes baths, time it with when she's alone, break into the house (leaving no traces of forced entry), sneak into the bathroom without her being alarmed, drop the curling iron in, sneak back out of the house and run away. I think it would be much easier to just drop a grand piano on her head.
Now imagine you want to kill your mother. The curling iron method is so obvious that a child could do it. You know when she takes a bath; you're already in the house; you can conveniently walk into the bathroom without her freaking out, drop the curling iron in the tub and walk back to your room.
Remember this IS a child we're talking about, not a mastermind criminal!
So what do you think? Case closed?
By the way, regarding the "last names don't match argument"... lol, does anyone remember the episode of Cheers when Woody says: "Wait... Darth Vader CAN'T be Luke's dad. They don't have the same last name!" :D
I still don't think he's her brother..
The way I see it, Steini was already in the mental hospital, when he killed Sissi's mother, who worked there as a nurse. Sissi didn't know about this before, she only realises when Bodo tells her about what happened.
The bathroom in the flashback looks exactly like the one Bodo is using.
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Hm... if that's true, then it definitely casts doubt on my theory. I proceeded from the assumtption that the mother's murder took place in the mother's house. But definitely if it took place in the asylum, then there's no reason for Steini to be the brother.
Do we know for a fact that Sissi was born in the asylum? And that her mother was a nurse? I always thought Sissi came to work at the asylum later to be close to her father, after her father went mad (presumably following his wife's strange death).
I agree with meininki's observation that the bathroom in the flashback looks exactly like the nurses', but that's the only indication I got that the mother was a nurse.
At any rate, thanks, y'all have given me another reason to watch this film again.
> I think it WAS her brother. Their relationship was incestuous. Sissi came to care for him in the asylum after he killed their mother. Remember the letters in the beginning? The country sister sent one to her brother - and "look Sissi, there's one for you too!" (With the bank documents in it.) When he tried to kill Bodo, having a flashback to killing his own mother. The first draft of this film was over 3 1/2 hours long. Much was cut, but I loved it anyway. It made sense to me. Brilliant.
My thoughts exactly, ksequoia. The bathtub/dryer scene made it pretty clear to me. It also explains Steini's strong attachment to her, as well as her blatant awkwardness when she give him that handjob. He was just creepy-!