corriganville says > What made the detective suspicious of the girl with the confetti?
I take it a lot of people haven't yet seen this movie. I only just saw it myself. Like you I had some problems with the plot too. The filmmakers seemed to take a few giant leaps in some places and left gaping plot holes in others.
In regards to the confetti girl, the detective was trying to figure out what happened to the shirt. Seeing the story, he had a hunch. He phoned the newspaper that ran the story to get information about the confetti. The guy didn't know if it was cloth so he offered to introduce him to the girl; who he happened to run into at the bar where she was working.
That whole incident was questionable. There are, I would think, easier, less conspicuous ways to get rid of bloody evidence. Cutting it into small bits and throwing it out of a moving train is about the craziest I've heard. It's not just that it was thrown out the window for everyone to see; that was bad enough but she'd also have to handle the shirt. Cutting it up into pieces, transporting it onto the train, and being associated with it increased the odds of getting caught; which, of course, is exactly what happened. Talk about nuts!
You're right about the confetti too. It looked bleached white when at least some of the pieces should have been speckled red from the spatter or even soaked in blood. If there hadn't been any blood, there wouldn't have been any reason to dispose of the shirt.
The motive was also questionable. If the truth of his origins had come out, would it have mattered to his career? Was it a class system type of thing?
If the truth came out it would have indicated he was a fake and had falsified official government documents but, according to the detective, that wasn't really the motive for the murder. Apparently, he was worried about losing his inspiration. His memories as a child, traveling with his father, and the pain he suffered when he later lost him fueled his creativity. He worried if he met his father, he might lose all that.
It's not very nice to say it but Miki seems to have driven Waga to killing him. Waga had dealt with his past; perhaps badly, but he had created a new and better life for himself. The guy was a jerk who was cheating on his fiancée and wanted her his mistress to abort their child but there's no indication he had been violent or murderous himself; not until he killed Miki. Ironically, Miki's the one who helped him get to where he was.
Miki convinced Waga's father to leave him so his illness, which had caused everyone else including his own wife to shun him, would not be held against the boy. As painful as it was, the father agreed then Miki immediately started giving him hope of a reunion even though he had no idea where the kid was. It's not explained how Miki was able to recognize Waga in a photo all those years later.
He had only known him as a young boy and Waga had, by then, assumed a new name and identity. That should have been his first clue to leave good enough alone. The fact Waga had become that successful; he was world renowned for his music and was engaged to a marry into a prominent family, meant he had a lot to lose both professionally and personally.
He may not have guessed Waga would kill him but Miki should have known Waga probably would not risk anyone learning his secrets. Miki was supposedly a good guy and he may have had the best intentions but it seems he tried to bully Waga into seeing his father. Miki may not have planned to 'out' Waga but his actions pushed the guy into a corner. Even if Waga knew that, he also knew he got a lot of publicity. If some reporter got wind he was visiting an old leper, he could have dug up the truth about his past but the mere association with a leper might have been enough to jeopardize everything he had worked so hard to achieve. Waga remembered the pain he felt when he was ostracized; there was no way he'd go there again.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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Maquiavelito
8 years ago
It's not explained how Miki was able to recognize Waga in a photo all those years later.
I was wondering about this, too. The best I can figure, based on what's in the film, is that Miki went to the theatre to kill time and noticed the photo on the wall, just as the detective did. And, like Chiyokichi when presented with a photo of Waga by the detective, Miki was able to recognise him as Hideo. Tenuous at best, I would say, and rather a stretch. I tend to think this is an oversight on the part of the filmmakers, however.
In any event, I thought it was a pretty good film overall, though a bit drawn out. I found myself much more interested in the second half (i.e., the back story of Waga and his father) and how that related to the concerto rather than the first half (i.e., the investigation, which seemed to me to have a lot of needless elements that added nothing to the story).
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mdonln
8 years ago
Maquiavelito says > The best I can figure, based on what's in the film, is that Miki went to the theatre to kill time and noticed the photo on the wall, just as the detective did. And, like Chiyokichi when presented with a photo of Waga by the detective, Miki was able to recognise him as Hideo. Tenuous at best, I would say, and rather a stretch. I tend to think this is an oversight on the part of the filmmakers, however.
Well, that's one way to interpret it but I agree it's a stretch. Anything any of us could come up with would be a stretch since we're left to assume so much. I watched this movie a while ago but when I read your comments I remembered feeling the same way. I liked the movie but it was drawn out and so much was left unexplained.
I went back and read my comments and thought perhaps what we were missing was the cultural perspective. I hope no one takes offense to this but I'm wondering if the Japanese audiences would have had as many questions and problems with the plot as we do.
It seems some cultures question things a lot less. They just accept what they're told and take things as a given; especially when they come from someone they consider an authority figure, like the police. I can't assume the Japanese are any better at recognizing people they hadn't seen since childhood so why wasn't that better explained - maybe because it didn't need to be. The thing about the confetti too; that may not have been questioned. They may even have seen it as an interesting aspect of the movie.
The reason I even bring all this up is because I noticed in my original comments I questioned why it was such a big deal for Waga to have his secrets revealed. I said what would be the big deal but I forgot how important family is in Japan. If people found out he had a father; especially one who was ill and estranged people might have judged him and made certain assumptions about him. Deserved or not it would have become the narrative of his life instead of his work. His pending marriage would have been jeopardized; his standing in society; all of it. It's no excuse for murder but I think the desperation could be motivation for something so drastic.
By the way, thanks for responding to my post. It got me thinking about this movie again. I'd forgotten all about it.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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Maquiavelito
8 years ago
I think you're right about Waga feeling that people would have judged him had they found out about his true history. This is probably an issue that Japanese people feel more acutely than Westerners. Having now lived here in Japan now for several years, I can tell you that, at least from a Westerner's perspective, there is a huge amount of pressure on people to conform. There is a well-known proverb in Japan to the effect that "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down"; Waga's father-in-law-to-be even alluded to that proverb when he, Waga and Waga's fiancee were talking. Adding to this, the epilogue of the film that Hansen's disease is curable, etc., seems to suggest that being unfairly judged was one of the points this film wanted to make.
One of my big problems with this film is that, if this was the issue (i.e., being unfairly judged), then the film could have been much more efficiently told by dispensing with much of the police detective stuff and side plots (e.g., the pregnant mistress), which, in my view, detracted from the more interesting things depicted in the second half of the film.
I think the Japanese generally tend to view things more holistically than Westerners, including mundane things like films. So, I think your hunch that Japanese audiences would not have questioned the various details of the plot as we did is probably correct.
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mdonln
8 years ago
Maquiavelito says > Having now lived here in Japan now for several years, I can tell you that, at least from a Westerner's perspective, there is a huge amount of pressure on people to conform. There is a well-known proverb in Japan to the effect that "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down"
Wow, that's cool; living in Japan and watching old Japanese movies. It must be nice being able to watch them without the subtitles.
I've never been to Japan but, having had some Japanese friends over the years, I know how different their views on conformity and fitting in can be. As we see, the saying you referenced, which I have heard, is the exact exact opposite of what we say here: the squeaky wheel gets the grease. In their view, the person who stands out gets punished; in ours, rewarded.
being unfairly judged was one of the points this film wanted to make
It's been a long time since I saw this movie but from what I remember I would not agree that being unfairly judged was the point. I don't remember what I thought the point was at the time I saw the movie but thinking back I'd say there were at least three themes: sacrifice, determination, and ambition. If I had to guess at the message I'd say it shows how each of those things can motivate us in incredible ways.
Thanks to TCM I've seen a lot of foreign films; many of them Japanese. I usually enjoy them but due to the cultural differences I always wonder if I'm really seeing things as the filmmakers intended. Even when we're aware that cultural differences exist it's often difficult to get past them and truly see things through other peoples' eyes. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try but even with our best efforts it's possible that our interpretations may be way off.
the epilogue of the film that Hansen's disease is curable
Maybe that was a Hitchcock like twist. If I recall, everything that happened started with the father's illness. If his illness was, in fact, curable, and he'd known it, none of the events that followed had to happen. It could also point to what you suggested was the message of the movie.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
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