MovieChat Forums > All Forgotten (2001) Discussion > what was Zanaida doing when...

what was Zanaida doing when...


...she was standing over a bowl with her skirt up and servants were shuffling around her. My guess is she was having an abortion or miscarriage but I'm likely wrong. May someone help me clear this up?

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i was kinda confused with that one too, but i thought it had something to do with getting ready to have sex since she went over to that guy afterward. Also wasn't that supposed to be when Vladimir sees her having an affair with his dad or something...i'm a little rusty though, i only saw like the last half hour today. I have seen the whole thing, but like a month ago.

but if anyone does know tell us because we are confused lol.

--Jen

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[deleted]

I saw this movie awhile ago, and I had a discussion with my friends over that one scene also. I felt like an airhead, because I really didn't understand what was happening. I feel better now knowing that I'm not the only one confused. I think your theories all make sense. We also thought she was "steaming" herself to get ready for sex. Weird though, to put that part in the film. I don't think I'll ever forget that--those images are hard to get out your memory, unfortunatly.

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[deleted]

I don't think so. if you follow the expository voice-over.. her 'lover' leaves right after that 'steam-bath' so it wasn't in prepartion for sex.. it was something she was doing AFTER sex. It looked to me like a douching ritual. She squated over the pot to expel the semen and then the steam was to make sure anything that remained was dead. That'd be my guess. She was undressed and in her underclothes so, it's reasonable to assume she'd had sex.

Of course, wasn't his father a doctor? I couldn't bear to watch the rest of this insipid film, so maybe the father was performing some sort of "morning after" or "moment after" type ritual. You'd be amazed at the bizarre birth control methods employed in that era. Women used to douche with a mercury compound, among other things.

My guess is douche.

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[deleted]

You are supposing that women from Era understood what we understand now! I see I should have explained what a douche is. "Douche' means 'to bathe.'


My guess is the filmmaker was genteel enough to spare us the scene of the douch liquid being inserted. Her stepping over the bowl was to expell the douche liquid AND presumabely, the semen. I should have made that clear.

incidentally - I am a woman using my husband's IMDB screen-neame - so please don't think I'm some kinda twisted dude.

I made myself watch the damn movie again so I could get the context of this myserious act and now I'm gonna go and read the short sotry as well. (you can tell I need more interesting things to to do in my life). I still say it's a douching ritual.

During the Period in which this film was supposed to take place, douching was an accepted method of birth control. I've seen references to doucheds with warm, herbed milk, douches with various semi-poisonous substances such as mercury, douches with salt water (ouch) etc.

The best answer still seems to be Douche.

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[deleted]

How cool! I am not the only one who's done a net-search to figure out what Zanaida was doing over that pot.

It appears as if there is ice in the bowl, and when she urinates, or, expels a douche, whichever it is, that is what causes the steam.

Then, doesn't her butler actually hold up a plate of ice that has a dark spot in the center of it?

Very interesting but quite frustrating!! I agree with the person who posted above, "Why include a scene that is not explained?", or at least...made reference to?

One more question, how did Vladimir's father die? He'd written a few lines to his son in a letter, but did you find his final position very odd? Did they ever explain or suggest what caused his death? Zanaida, on her death bed said something about what she and Vladimir's dad did caused some kind of illness, didn't she?

Hope the board is still active!!

Thanks

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>>>One more question, how did Vladimir's father die? He'd written a few lines to his son in a letter, but did you find his final position very odd? Did they ever explain or suggest what caused his death? Zanaida, on her death bed said something about what she and Vladimir's dad did caused some kind of illness, didn't she? <<<

Perhaps that's a reference to Syphillis? Zanaida's family was already fallen from high society and perhaps she traded on her sexual favors for monetary support of their lifestyle? Perhaps she contracted Syphillis from one of her many suitors and passed it on?

I dunno. This whole short story and film seem to be about the illusion of "true romantic love' and how when you look a little closer, life is a lot dirtier and seedier than that.

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In the book he had a stroke. Though the movie sort of suggested it was suicide, in which case it would have been from poison. And you don't just keel over from syphilis.

Also, it was implied that Pytor was the only one Zinaida ever "gave in to" sexually. This is very significant, since it alters the entire theme of the movie to think that she was just a slut.

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...So we were supposed to UNDERSTAND all of this while watching the film?? What a tedious waste of Dundst and Stahl this film was. Argh!!!

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What a tedious waste of Dundst and Stahl this film was.

*choke*

Actually, they ruined it.
More like, what a tedious waste of Nathaniel Parker, Julie Walters, Robert Glenister, and Geraldine James (not to mention Turgenev's and Chekhov's short stories).

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Really? What more was really needed for Dundst to portray Zanaida? Let's see: Beautiful, with a delusional sense of privilage. Check. Obviously her tour de force pre-teen portrayal of this same asseblage in 'Interview With a Vampire' was enough to win this roll. I'd fault the director's directin', if anything.

Anyway, I'm sure those other actors, whom I don't totally follow, all have greater abilities than Dundst. But moreover, maybe we can just agree that the whole film is just a waste of talent?

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[deleted]

Father took poison

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First, this director was indelicate in conveying the subtleties in the novelette, and left so much murk in this film that any reasonable person would assume that Zinaida was a prostitute. Clearly, he did not "get it".

All of the other replies presume that Zinaida had only one lover. That may have been the case in the novelette, but this is a film adaptation in which many elements have been changed. I could be mistaken, but I thought Vladmir witnessed his father coming TO Zinaida's home, not going FROM. So I interpreted the douching scene to be an act she was performing between lovers. Or maybe it was just hot urine steaming up in the cold Russian air. We'll never know because the director was so dense.

To bolster my argument for two lovers, you'll recall the suitor who was expelled from her home, and had that angry roadside confrontation with Vladmir's father. That confrontation, which had a level of aggression uncharacteristic of "gentlemen", (it was almost ghetto, I thought they were going to duel)was over a letter sent to Vladmir's mother revealing his father's affair with Zinaida, and ruining Zinaida socially. All this jealousy and vengeance appears to be the result of two men fighting over the favors of one woman. Later in Moscow, Vladmir learns that Zinaida's other suitor/lover has disappeared.

So all of this led me to the conclusion that Zinaida had two lovers, but I'm still confused about why she would be performing such a private act with the assistance of a manservant, when clearly it could have been done privately and the servant rung for afterwards. I'm also confused why the director would show Vladmir watching this. The whole scene had a perverse, voyeuristic, urophilic flavor, as though the director wanted us to watch a golden shower.

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I just watched this film on either HBO or Showtime today and I was left wondering the same thing. The above posters who suggested that it was a douche in order to prevent pregnancy sound like they have it right to me. That is what I assumed after having seen the scene, anyway.



http://thevenusproject.com
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On top of everything else here, I thought it was his father, not the servants, who put the bowl under her.

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I rewound that scene, and I think it was an old woman, not the butler.

Too many questions aren't resolved in this movie. I wondered if the HBO/Showtime version had been edited and scenes left out that would explain more.


I love Jesus, but I drink a little.

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I know this is a year and a half late but I watched it on Netflix and I'm confused as well. I think it's safe to say that she was doing some form of birth control.

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actually i think by then she was already pregnant... people have posted that her butler was holding something, but if u pay close attention, one can see that it is the old medicine woman that appears earlier in the movie. i think this was some sort of way to tell the sex of the baby or is she was pregnant or not.

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I thought she was doing a peasant dance or maybe some warm-up ballet exercises.



"The night was sultry."

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My theory is that she was being checked to see if she was a virgin. After all, wasn't her mother selling her to the highest bidder? If she was proven to be 'untouched' she would be worth more. If she wasn't a virgin likely the deal would have been called off. My theory, anyhow--I've watched the movie a few times hoping to have it all made clear. Maybe the next time it will!
I actually opened this IMDb account to reply to this specific question. Not the greatest movie ever--although Julie Walters is a hoot to watch, and Geraldine James is on fire.

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