MovieChat Forums > Red Planet (2000) Discussion > Where the hell did the bugs come from?

Where the hell did the bugs come from?


Oh and where the hell did the bugs come from?

If they were that prolific that they could change Mars atmosphere howcome no probes or such detected them?

reply

The only logical conclusion I have is that since Mars has no known life forms today, the bugs evolved from the algae the humans planted. How's that possible however, I have no clue, considering that it takes a bit more than 20 years for evolution to advance simple single-cell organisms such as algae into advanced organisms like bugs. And why would the bugs eat the thing from which they evolved from? You'd expect them to maybe live in synergy with the algae, not devouring it. Yes, parasitic organisms exists, but on such a planet as Mars with so little life, this is really counterintuitive, as parasitic lifeforms usually exists to keep other lifeforms in check so they do not overpopulate. I see nothing akin to this with these bugs. It would make more sense if the bugs produced something which the algae could live on, at least.

reply

Another planet? Something put there by another race?
'Tho I don't believe in evolution anyway, 20 years seems too short for that.

I'm riding an elephant to your house. I'll see you at six.

reply

Maybe the bugs were there all dormant till the algae arrived and started them off.

reply

hmmm not a bad idea.

I'm riding an elephant to your house. I'll see you at six.

reply

[deleted]

"'Tho I don't believe in evolution anyway"

Evolution is a fact just like gravity is a fact. Try reading about it.

reply

Evolution is a theory.
Gravity is a reality.
Facts are opinions that the majority agree upon.

reply

No actually gravity is also a theory.

But it is a theory with a staggering amount of evidence suporting it. Exactly like evolution.

Facts are things that evidence repeatedly and observably supports. Again, try looking things up.

reply

Yes Evolution is a theory & Gravity is a Law. But that has nothing to do with validity of either. Scientists obsess with classification. Its the only way that huge amounts of information can be correctly processed & referenced.

A Law in science is a classification of something that applies in all places at all times. The only variable being intensity. Gravity is a force found everywhere in the universe. So it is classified as a LAW.

Evolution is classified as a theory simply because it, like anything else only related to the Earth, can not be categorized as something applying everywhere.

The only planet with complex sentient life we know of is this one. So there is no way to know how life is formed on other worlds. Here on earth we know life evolved through natural selection. The word evolution itself is a general term, Natural Selection is the key concept since it specifies the mechanism of evolution. as discovered by Darwin.

There is no way to know if natural selection applies to all life, on all worlds with life. So until we find some other world like ours, Evolution will remain a theory.

Natural selection has shown itself to be correct in the absence of anything else that would take into account all the information we have gathered & still give us the same outcome we can observe. Natural selection as a theory has provided valid results in every single earth related science from geology to genetics.

Natural selection does not necessarily negate the possibility of an absolute intelligent causality. All it does is say that this system that has resulted in
human life shows no detectable signs of having been artificially created, altered or guided by outside forces since the process began on this earth.

All that would mean, for those who believe in an intelligent causality, is that the intelligent causality created a system so perfect, immense & subtle in its complexities, that it looks to us like it came about on its own.

db

reply

Its likely that you're misunderstanding the nomenclature here. In scientific literature, there are largely laws, theories and hypotheses. When there is a staggering amount of evidence to test positive for a hypothesis, it essentially gets called a theory. That may seem counter-intuitive against our colloquial usage of the word but it is what it is. I hope you don't dismiss evolution too quickly because it is accepted as fact by the gross majority of the science community, unless proved otherwise through peer-reviewed publications.

The theory of evolution.
The theory of wave-particle duality.
The theory of relativity.
They all explain our world fabulously, it is sheer hypocrisy to accept some theories and reject certain others based on predisposed notions or 'intuition' or religion.

The difference between theory and law is a bit more abstract and I'm not going to get into that here.


In the words of Otto:
Zeppelin Rulllesss!!

reply

Evolution, a fact? Now there's a laugh. Why don't you try reading about it.

This ain't my first tea party...

reply

Are you retarded? Evolution is a fact, there's no believing in it or not, you either understand it or don't.

reply

what do call breeding? humans having been using evolution since the first agriculure and animal husbandry was started. Breeding = evidence of evolution u redneck.

Joinking it!

reply

[deleted]

That's all explained in Red Planet 2. :)

reply

Right, they are a definite plot howler for me. In the goofs section, it is correctly pointed out that "nematodes" are actually tiny worms, not large, winged insects. So, perhaps, a script writer, casting about for a plausible Martian life-form, seized on nematodes as something that might be able to exist on Mars, but goofed laughably in imagining their metamorphosis. The goof section also notes that Mars' lack of an atmosphere is due to having lost its magnetosphere billions of years ago, and thus no amount of "terraforming" could regenerate one - certainly not through the use of algae or arthropods of any kind.

reply

but what if we dumped giant CO2 factories on the planet to create a greenhouse type environment ..... wouldn't that help build an atmosphere?

Or how elee could you do it?

reply

[deleted]

when you come by a factory, any factory, take a good look at it. there's not just stuff coming out of one end, there's stuff going in on the other. to fabricate anything, you have to have raw material, or parts pre-fabricated from raw material.

what raw material is on mars to produce CO2 from it? more than likely you don't just have to "drop giant CO2 factories", you have to drop the raw material for them. why not just drop frozen CO2?

how else? another sci-fi method would be to take fairly big nuclear power plants to the asteroid belt. some of the asteroids there are basicly giant snow balls. the power generated from the plants would be used to split enough of their water into hydrogen and oxygene. that would then be the fuel used to propel what's left to mars. there they would be just dropped onto the surface. that would take water to the mars, and the impact energy would provide part of the energy required to heat up the atmosphere.

never the less, you'd need -a lot- of those snow balls.

the big question here is: does the result justify the effort required to do that?



I remember words that fell
like coins into a wishing well

reply

"when you come by a factory, any factory, take a good look at it. there's not just stuff coming out of one end, there's stuff going in on the other. to fabricate anything, you have to have raw material, or parts pre-fabricated from raw material.

what raw material is on mars to produce CO2 from it? more than likely you don't just have to "drop giant CO2 factories", you have to drop the raw material for them. why not just drop frozen CO2?"

Actually, the atmosphere of Mars is over 95% CO2, so I'm not sure you'd want to add more of that. You would want to add tremendous volumes of N2 and O2 to make it anywhere comparable to Earth's atmosphere. I'm not sure about N2, but O2 could be converted from Martian rock itself (much of it is composed of minerals containing oxygen, including iron oxide ("rust")). So you'd build gigantic ore smelters, basically.

reply

sagaylo wrote

The goof section also notes that Mars' lack of an atmosphere is due to having lost its magnetosphere billions of years ago, and thus no amount of "terraforming" could regenerate one - certainly not through the use of algae or arthropods of any kind.


I disagree. It just means you need to design a way for the atmosphere to be continuously regenerated. Even if you didn't, by the time a significant amount of atmosphere was lost, technology would have advanced to the point that it is easily replaced, since the process takes hundreds of millions of years at least.

--Brian

I am neutrino78x elsewhere on the internet. :-)

reply

Easy: Whatever they sent to Mars to get things started, must have been contaminated. Maybe with some insect eggs or whatever. It took them a while to adapt. Then, because of the absence of natural enemies, they grew out of control.

I did not save the boy, God did. I only CARRIED him.

reply

[deleted]

Or lack thereof, considering the difference between a nematode and a winged insect.

"I like to watch" Chauncey Gardiner, 'Being There'

reply

I may be misremembering the movie (saw it at release, and maybe a couple years after that), but I thought it was either stated or implied that a previous mission seeded an organism for the purpose of air conversion, and these "bugs" resulted from that (mutated/evolved). The greater Solar radiation exposure on Mars' surface (no magnetic field) might make mutations happen faster, but I don't think they'd happen that fast (the span of maybe a decade or two?), though. Let alone so completely change the compsition and density of the atmosphere in that little time.

But I think it's a significant hole that Mars' atmosphere had so completely converted (and become 100x more dense) without anyone on Earth noticing--we can spectrally analyze another planet's atmospheric content from Earth, and you would think that if we'd sent a mission to seed Mars with organisms for the purpose of changing the atmosphere, we'd be monitoring their progress in that way. Thus, when they sent this new mission as a followup, the crew would already know whether the atmosphere was breathable (and would probably have shipboard or portable instruments to further verify it nonetheless), and wouldn't discover that completely by accident after panicking in their suits out of fear of suffocating.

reply

Perceptible evolutionary changes have actually been documented as occurring in the rather short period of a couple of decades.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolutio n.html

Where are we a-going? Planet Ten
When are we a-going? ...real soon...

reply

They were the big brothers/sisters of those creatures featured in Apollo 18.

reply