MovieChat Forums > Kikujirô no natsu (2000) Discussion > Can I blame it on a cultural barrier?

Can I blame it on a cultural barrier?



I rented this film after it was recommended to me, and it appeared to be well-received by a number of people I talked to and who apparently rate movies here on IMDb. After I finished watching Kikujiro I was left feeling like I was stuck behind a cultural barrier. I say this because I didn't enjoy it and consider it forgettable. There were several very creative shots and interesting desplays of cinematography, but from my perspective, there was a real, raw, underdeveloped student-film feel to the characterizations and storyline. Kitano's acting is too over-the-top (his screaming and childishness are just too much for me to buy as a viewer). The interactions with the characters encountered along the main characters' journey don't make any sense to me. I found myself very excited by the structure (main character's chapter-book account of his summer) and the dream sequences, but I felt myself just going along with Kitano and giving him the benefit of the doubt when character interaction took place.

Should I simply marvel at Kitano's single-handed efforts as a director/writer/editor/actor and look past my instincts or should I enjoy the clever shots and chalk the rest up to a cultural barrier?

reply

If you didn't enjoy it, then just chalk it up as a film that isn't to your taste... I mean I'm British, and can't say I felt any 'cultural barriers' (as you say) with Kikujiro no Natsu (oh, by coincidence I re-watched it today), and whilst I admit I watch a lot of Japanese cinema and so may appreciate more of the cultural references, I didn't really think there was anything in this film which would necessarily confound a non-Japanese viewer in such a way.

Having said that, upon repeat viewing, I found myself getting a few more references and possible 'in-jokes'. For example, when Masao (and later, Kikujiro) are playing that game - counting to three and turning round whilst the 'contestants' move towards them, if any of the contestants move when they look round, they're 'out' - Watching it today, it dawned on me that it was probably a nod to one of the games on Takeshi-jô (Takeshi's Castle).

To put what I'm saying into perspective (and to take the country of origin out of the equation), I've seen a good few films from the UK and America which I just 'didnt get' - A good example would be the David Lynch film Mulholland Drive, which I failed to get into at all (I was close to gnawing my arm off at one point just so I'd have something to throw at the tv) - A great many people seem to love that film though, so I just put it down to it not being to my taste.

(a rather lengthy) Edit: 2 ways Kitano convinced me in his role...

I think the whole idea was that Kikujiro himself IS quite child-like in his attitudes and mannerisms... An adult who is still immature, and who thinks himself as something of a bigshot, but in reality is a bit of a loser - he's probably the *last* person you'd put in charge of a young child - and for this part, I think he plays the part well.

Whilst this film can deceptively be seen as a 'coming-of-age' (wrong term, but you get the general idea) story of the child, I think it would be more accurate to be seen as a coming-of-age story for Kikujiro (though its resolutely told from Masao's viewpoint), as he matures over the course of the film (not too much mind :p)...

For example, later on in the film, he was shown to actively care for Masao, even if its in his own clumsy way (taking the angel bell from 'Fatso' by (rather laughably) threatening to nick his motorbike) - I think he means well, but finds it hard to show it (compared to say, either gambling Masao's money away at the beginning, or when he rescued Masao from the 'Scary Man' - he didn't really have any comforting words for Masao, he just did what he knew and beat the guy up (though this IS one of the earliest points he's shown to at least have his heart in the right place, even if he doesn't express this to Masao)); I'd also cite the touching scene where he visited his own mother in the rest home, but couldn't bring himself to approach her (doesn't necessarily convey maturity, but was a convincing scene nonetheless).

God I've waffled on... I hope this hasn't been an unreadable mess, I just wanted to try and express part of what I take away from this film whenever I watch it (its probably my favourite Kitano Takeshi film btw).


"Don't make me use my stuff on ya, baby!"

reply

Wow.. that was well said. I am a fan of Takeshis Castle and never thought of that scene that way before. Cool. Kikujiro is my all time favorite movie, by the way, followed by Kill Bill.

reply

Greetings - don't know about the Takeshis Castle take, but I can tell you that as a young girl (presumeably I pre-date both of you), we used to play the same game as depicted in the film, only we called it "One, Two, Three, Redlight". Until seeing Kikujiro, I assumed this was a game that only I and my friends knew about growing up in New England back in the 60's. I've caught the majority of the film twice on IFC and think it's charming. However, I've never seen the omininous-sounding opening sequence. Sounds like I need to buy/rent the DVD in order to comment on the character's journeys from the inception.

reply

Yeah, I can easily believe the game has its origins prior to Takeshi's Castle (oh, its re-edited & has dubbed-over commentary in the US, and broadcast as "Most Extreme Elimination Challenge", and runs (so I believe) on 'Spike TV'). I would imagine that to some extent, no completely 'new' kids game has been created for a good couple of decades, and I know similar (though admittedly not identical) games to the one up for discussion.

Its just that Kitano-san is known as much (if not moreso) for being a comedian and TV personality in Japan, as he is for his films, so it wouldn't surprise me if he were specifically lampooning his own show for this film.

As an aside, in his film 'Getting Any', he spoofs several classic icons of Japanese cinema - one of whom (Zatoichi) he has now portrayed in his most recent film - be sure to catch that one when its released in the US by Miramax later in the year, its fantastic!


"Don't make me use my stuff on ya, baby!"

reply

Ah, now I know what you're talking about! I have seen Most Extreme Elimination Challenge a couple of times upon the suggestion of a co-worker. But Spike is a network most definitely geared towards the male demographic, so I don't usually think to tune in.

I had no idea that the filmmaker was also the one responsible for the TV show. I guess I'm going to have to do a lot more "homework" if I'm going to have anything meaningful to say on these boards!

reply

"I had no idea that the filmmaker was also the one responsible for the TV show"

Yeah, quite amazing really! I've never seen the US version, but in the UK (where its dubbed over by a British guy), even though its called Takeshi's Castle, EVERY time Takeshi himself comes onscreen, the commentator refers to him as just another 'guard' rather than 'Count Takeshi', which is the role he's playing - its certainly not obvious to the casual viewer that its him.


"I'm going to have to do a lot more 'homework' if I'm going to have anything meaningful to say on these boards"

Nah, 'its all good' as they seem to say these days... Its always nice to talk to people who appreciate these films, and I was interested to know that game is more widespread than I had previously thought.


"Don't make me use my stuff on ya, baby!"

reply

Okay, since I've already admitted to my ignorance previously, I may as well come right out and ask two more questions of you:

1.) What is the meaning of your screen name, and
2.) What is the source the quote you always close with?

Educate me (if you don't mind, that is)!

If you could recommend any more movies, I'd appreciate that as well. I did see a good (Korean?) film on Sundance a while back. It was about a spoiled young city boy who is brought to live with his ancient, mountain-dwelling, mute grandmother by his (single) mother so that she can sort out some of her business. It was quite good - if I can only remember the name of it I'll pass it along.

Does the UK broadcast "Iron Chef" as well? Just curious . . .



reply

Happy to oblige...

my ID comes from the book/film Battle Royale (sadly unavailable in the US, though thats not to say there aren't ways to get it - the UK distributor produces a region 0 NTSC disc)... The character 'Shinji Mimura' has the nickname 'The Third Man'.

My sig. line comes from the Bruce Campbell film Bubba Ho-Tep.

Oh, and we do get Iron Chef periodically, I've only caught a few though.


Okay, on to other films... hmm... Depends what you like really, so I'll try to cover all bases - a lot of Kitano Takeshi films are 'mobster' themed (Violent Cop; Sonatine; Boiling Point; Brother; Hana-bi) notable exceptions are Zatoichi (blind swordsman); Getting Any (broad comedy about a guy's search for sex); Kid's Return (about 2 amateur boxers - whilst Yakuza-based, isn't nearly as much as some of his other films); and Dolls (3 intertwining love stories). Oh, whilst Hana-bi (known as 'Fireworks' in the US) is sporadically violent, its widely regarded as Kitano's best film.

With other directors, as far as drama goes, the best Asian film I've seen in recent times is Yamada Yoji's Tasogare Seibei (Twilight Samurai), which despite its name, is a thoughtful, moderately paced drama - It was up for best foreign film at the oscars this year, and in my opinion was robbed. You can always rely on the films of Kurosawa too... Seven Samurai, Rashomon, Yojimbo and Ikiru are great for starters, but most of his back-catalogue is well worth watching. And Ozu Yasujiro isn't bad either - Tokyo Story probably being his most well-received film outside of Japan.

Then there's Fukasaku Kinji, who is most recently known for Battle Royale (the last film he completed before his death - its sequel was completed by his son, Kenta), but who also made some great Yakuza dramas in the 70's. Battle Royale is about a group of school children, taken to an island and made to kill each other. Its a film that definitely splits opinions - I know as many people who hate it as I do people who love it.

For horror films, you can't go far wrong with the work of Nakata Hideo... The original version of Ring (Ringu) (well, it wasn't the first version actually, but its the one the US remade badly) is miles better than the remake, and the sequels, Spiral (Rasen) and Ring 2 are pretty good. Dark Water (also currently being remade in the US) is also worth a look. Nakata also directed a psychological drama called Chaos (Kaosu) which is pretty good. One other (comedy) horror I'll mention is Kitamura Ryuhei's 'Versus', which is a fairly low-budget 'evil dead' style of film.

For more 'edgy' Japanese films, Miike Takashi is continually pushing the boundaries of taste - Whilst some of his films are fairly standard (for him) Yakuza fare (Shinjuku Triad Society, Rainy Dog, Ley Lines, Agitator), others are less typical (witness the matrix-style cock fight in 'City of Lost Souls'; the Dead or Alive 'trilogy'; 'Fudoh: The New Generation'; or the now infamous 'Ichi the Killer'). One of my favourites by Miike is 'The Happiness of the Katakuris', a sort of comedy-horror-musical.

Oh, and if you can get past the fact that they're animated, the work of Miyazaki Hayao and Takahata Isao are worth a look - Spirited Away is the one that's made a name for itself, but also worth seeing are Princess Mononoke; My Neighbour Totoro; Laputa: Castle In The Sky; Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind; Porco Rosso; and Grave of the Fireflies (there are more, besides these, but these ones are probably the best). Just make sure you watch them in Japanese with subtitles, as the English dubs aren't nearly as good (especially Spirited Away's).

Think that'll do for now, I know a few films from other Asian countries, but most of them are old Jackie Chan martial arts films. Oh, the pre-Hollywood John Woo films are worth a look, and more recently the Pang brothers (Oxide, and Danny) are behind some of the better Hong Kong films - notably The Eye (a horror) and its sequel; Bangkok Dangerous; and Bangkok Haunted. Also, Danny Pang was an editor on the Infernal Affairs films. Oh, and Fulltime Killer isnt bad...


"Don't make me use my stuff on ya, baby!"

reply

I am a big fan of asian cinema and I certainly thought that Kikujiro was an enjoyable film. However not one that I would 'shout from the roof-tops about'. Truth be told; I do enjoy sentimental films.
I don't know what other viewers feel about Kitano's films but Brother, Battle Royale and Zatoichi had some extremely violents scenes but also some wonderfully light-hearted ones that make you laugh out loud.
While everyone has spoken so highly of Spirited Away(and they have every right to), Princess Mononoke struck me as a better film.
Infernal Affairs is also good and in that case, why not try Korea's Shiri.

I would recommend these films if you enjoyed Kikujiro;
1. Stanno Tutti Bene (an Italian film that I have searched high and low for for ages having seen it on late night British terrestrial TV, Channel 4,a few years ago. A widower that travels around Italy visiting his children and reports back to wife, at her resting place,with the words 'Stanno Tutti Bene' or 'Everyone's Fine'. I can't say more as that would spoilt it.).
2. Afterlife (can be found in this website under the title Wandafuru raifu. Its one of the more endearing films that you never forget. Certainly one of my favourites. After dying, between Earth and Heaven, there is a 'half-way house' where the deceased spend a week choosing one memory from their life and that will be all they take with them to heaven.).
3. My Life Without Me (with the wonderful Sarah Polley is a sad and touching film).
4. A One And A Two (YiYi).
5. Onegin (with Ralph Fiennes and Liz Tyler).
6. Last Orders (non-Brits need to strain a little to understand the accents. A group of friends who pay their last respects to a companion).

Happy viewing.

reply

I guess there's people like mbelche1 who just don't get it at all.

reply

I Love Miike 'The Happiness of the Katakuris'. Hilarious. I thought I'd just mention that it's an adaptation/slapstick take on a Korean film, 'The Quiet Family', which is another very interesting and enjoyable comedy/thrisller film!! Worth seeing.

reply

[deleted]

"my ID comes from the book/film Battle Royale (sadly unavailable in the US, though thats not to say there aren't ways to get it - the UK distributor produces a region 0 NTSC disc)..."

There's nothing that isn't available in the US. This was true 20 years ago and it's even more true in the age of the internet (As I sit here and covet my Region 0 copy of Battle Royale (Mine's from a Korean distributor tho :P )

reply

Wow, this thread is a blast from the past...

Haven't read back over what I'd previously said, but I'm British so have had the UK releases for a couple of years anyway... I just meant that its a shame its not so readily available in North America.


She's built like a steak-house, but she handles like a bistro.

reply

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did see a good (Korean?) film on Sundance a while back. It was about a spoiled young city boy who is brought to live with his ancient, mountain-dwelling, mute grandmother by his (single) mother so that she can sort out some of her business. It was quite good - if I can only remember the name of it I'll pass it along.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Way Home"

reply

>>Yeah, quite amazing really! I've never seen the US version, but in the UK (where its dubbed over by a British guy), even though its called Takeshi's Castle, EVERY time Takeshi himself comes onscreen, the commentator refers to him as just another 'guard' rather than 'Count Takeshi', which is the role he's playing - its certainly not obvious to the casual viewer that its him. <<

Also for the British version they decided to cut all of Takeshi's scenes! Not sure if UK and Irland viewers are aware of this, but half the show originally consists of little skits that are shown in-between games where you have King Takeshi and a few members of the court making silly comments. I recently saw a few UK episodes here in Dublin and was very surprised at how short it was until it dawned on me that they actually cut out all that material. I used to watch the German-dubbed version and, while the commentary isn't a lot better, at least the comedy scenes remain and also the commentary is less, let's say, ethnicity-conscious than the UK one (where you keep hearing references to the fact that the contestants are Japanese and have "funny" references such as "pearl harbour" or "nippy" thrown in. I find these completely unnecessary and offensive to a degree.)

Nadine :)

reply

about the game being from Takeshi-jo, the game is actually one played by little kids in Japan and I am a Japan-born Japanese, so i should know so.

reply

That's cool... we have similar childhood games in the UK, so I didn't think it originated in Takeshi-jo specifically (though I may have worded what I said badly - I haven't looked back at my earlier post before replying here), but more that it was a nod to his TV alter-ego.



HST: "Don't take any guff from these swine."

reply

In Spain also use to play that game, and we say "un dos tres, pollito inglés" (one two three mmm "english little chicken" xD).
About the film, i love it, i think is one of the charmiest movies in history.

PS. it surprises me the fact that "imdb" consider "kindergarten cop" at the same level of this movie oO!!!!!

reply

[deleted]

Is it so surprising that some people may enjoy a variety of different styles when it comes to film(or anything else, for that matter)? Is it a requirement that one's taste be thematically and stylistically narrow and exclusive of ecclectic examples?

Hey, look! It's my new signature!

reply

I personally enjoyed this film very much. In fact I consider it one of my favourite films. I just watched it on T.V and it brought back sweet memories as I had seen this a long time ago and never knew it's name. I have searched for it until today!

I used to play the game too as a I child, in the UK.

A point it seems no one has mentioned is that Takeshi Kitano is a very good tap dancer (to my knowledge, correct me if I am wrong). I found it quite amusing in the scene where his character did not know what tap dancing was, let alone do it.

reply

I saw it last night for the first time. Following a quite good documentary on Asian cinema by Jonathan Ross on BBC4. Found the film really compelling, and quite sweet.
As for the cultural barrier thing, never really seen an issue in watching films in another language, from another culture. We all have the same human needs and emotions.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

Yeah...Kindergarten Cop is the last thing I would compare it to.

reply

In France, it's called "un, deux, trois, soleil". As a child, I was playing at it 36 years ago. And my parents played "un, deux, trois, soleil" too when they were kids. It doesn't look like it's exclusive to any country. It's one of those universal games that kids can play without any device.

reply

That's so interesting. Some anthropologist or linguist should study whether the game originated from 1 source (in Mesopotamia or whatever) and migrated along with humans, or if it was a parallel development in different cultures.

Japanese culture itself was historically isolated from the rest of the world (meaning you can't trace Japanese culture to migrants from other continents), so that makes me wonder if the game developed independantly in different cultures, the result of basic human nature. Sort of like most babies regardless of culture uttering something like "mama" or fr. "maman" when they're born. On a separate note, am I really discussing anthropology and linguistics on the Kikujiro forum? Wtf

reply

[deleted]

I don't really see any cultural barrier about it. Btw I live in the USA--the folks who invented the cultural barrier--and I don't get that feeling at all. Rather, I see a stylistic difference in storytelling which may be confusing if you're not prepared.

In particular, Kitano is about as subtle as it gets. He'll never come right out and tell you his theme; instead he'll present you with a convoy of seemingly disjoint episodes which tie in together if you're really paying attention. I'm not saying this as an insult to your (or anyone's) intelligence. But maybe you just weren't expecting something that requires so much meticulous attention. I was recommended this film by someone who compared it to "Arizona Dream" by Emir Kusturica. If you're familiar with Kusturica's work, you'll know EK is anything but subtle--spastic is the word I'd use. So of course I was somewhat disappointed by Kikujiro's seeming pointlessness.

But I went back and watched it again (the music was what got me), and now it makes so much sense. Furthermore, I went back and saw some of Kitano's older films, and his subtle style is evident in all of them (A Scene by the Sea, in particular). Kikujiro now ranks up with my faves of all time.

I'm sure there were several nods & inside jokes relating to Japanese culture, but I was able to follow along pretty well. As a whole the story is universal; it's about a cynical man's "summer vacation"--his brief glimpse at innocence despite his jaded years. The subtlety is the magic of the film that makes it believeable, unlike a Disney film which is pure fantasy. This is fantasy for cynics!

reply

Re the creeping-up-behind-you game - in English, or should I say in England, it's called Grandmother's Footsteps. Which is rather nice in this context.

reply

I'm from the North of England and we played the same game called "What Time is it Mr Wolf?". The origin of most folk games would be hard to pin down, I would imagine.

As for the film, I love it as I love all Kitano films so far. It's very heartwarming and uplifting for me. Especially Fatso and Baldy who I feel wouldn't harm a fly.

I think that the film is actually kikujiro tagging along with Masao as he goes to find his mother. I think kikujiro sees something of himself in Masao, especially later on when we find that kitano isn't close with his Mother.

As for some of the silly overacting, this isn't Kitano, this is Kikujiro's attempts at entertaining Masao, the journey is far more important than the destination kinda thing, but I can understand why some would think it is Kitano.

I can't help getting a small tear at this films bitter/sweet ending, the last lines in the film are the most uplifting of all.

As for cultural barriers, I found none of them, even with the humour. This is kitano's own, Japanese or not.

I wouldn't say it's Kitano's best film but it's pretty close. For me it's Boiling Point, it's far more "Art House" than many of his others and highlights everything that kitano's style of film making has become noted for. Though I recommend them all 100%.

reply

To the OP: While certain movies indeed recquires a certain knowledge on the culture of the country where the film was shot, I don't think this is "Kikujiro's" case.

I live in the other side of the world. In a way different country than Japan (Mexico), yet I didn't notice any important "cultural barrier".

The characters might be local but they also represents universal archetypes: The pervert guy, the lazy but still sympathetic folk, the "rebels", the free spirited artist, the "innocence" incarnated in the little boy, etc.
I mean that kind of people are present on ANY country.
In addition the plot of the movie is quite universal (a boy looking for his long lost mother).

I think this movie could take place in any country. With a few "adjustments" the same story will work everywhere.

reply

I think it depends on from which cultural context you're coming from, what is your cultural background?

Perhaps like many Westerners (if that's what you are) you have an image of Japanese as nothing more than always simply stoic, conformist, robotic, etc.

In fact many Japanese people can be highly eccentric and emotive (I didn't find Kikujiro's acting to be "over the top" at all personally, and usually I dislike that sort of thing. Also I found the interactions with others to be quite normal [if off the wall] for everyday life in Japan.)

reply