Pretentious & Typical


The vice of conventional filmmaking does not assume virtue in the unconventional. Just because you do not make the mainstream pabulum of a Jerry Bruckheimer or Michael Bay does not mean that you can't be soulless, craftless, artless and witless. In many ways, directors like Korine are worse than the worst of typical Hollywood. They make insufferable garbage that panders to bloviating fools and pretentious idiots who would never admit to watching Speilberg or Scorcese. They establish a new convention of vapidity that is as empty and formless as the "establishment" that they reject. In doing so, they create their own "establishment" built of hollow pseudo-artistry that is nothing short of slow-witted doggerel designed to give people something to do between espressos. By the way, Utah is for skis and snowboards, not 23 documentaries about transexuals or self-absorbed pinheads who watched too much Goddard and Bunuel in the pre-op for their lobotomy.

reply

You make a good point, and one that made me post (for the first time) on a message board for a movie I haven't seen. I did see Gummo however, and I thought it sucked. I hate movies that just show you random stuff and then expect you to make connections that don't exist. I felt Gummo was one of those movies. Anyway, back to what I was going to say. I don't think all those big words you used were necessary to what you were saying about the movie. To paraphrase Rob Zombie talking about Beavis and Butthead, something's either cool or it sucks. I think you could have said Korine's movie sucked without sounding like you invented the English language. You came off a little too....Dennis Miller for my tastes. On a brighter note, I did agree with almost everything you said.

P.S. If you actually are THE Dennis Miller and "D Butcher" is your internet message board name, then I sincerely apologize for saying that you, Dennis Miller, sounded like Dennis Miller, which wouldn't make any sense.

reply

Self-absorbed pretentiousness to describe self-absorbed pretentiousness. Who says I don't understand yer fancy book-lerned post-modern irony.


Hobbes To Calvin In Criticizing His Artist Statement: "You misspelled Weltanschauung."

reply

hahaha...Great answer DButcher

reply

[deleted]

I love the films of Speilberg and Scorcese, but I also find it interesting seeing directors like Korine doing things different with film, and experimenting. I mean, if your gonna judge this film on form and theory, in perspective with directors like Scorsese, of course its gonna seem like crap. But Korines intentions for Julien Donkey-boy weren't to make your typical, beginning-middle-end type film. And according to you I must be a hollow, bloviating fool who drinks espressos just because I respect directors who take experimental film to the max.

reply

Step off the proverbial High Horse for a moment, will you? Jeez. Not only do you critique the film you [in a sense] bash the fans. According to your logic, I'm now a pretentious idiot who is vapid and empty. Boy, good job there, way to totally not base people on their movie tastes. I like films, in general. I love the godfather and I still place it high on my list of favorites. I also enjoy many other "hollywood" directors as well. You seem to be pidgeon-holing all fans of this film into some negative stereotype.

Congratulations, despite your vocabulary, you're still a dumbass.

The point I'm trying to make here is that not all fans of Korine's films are as you put it, "Slow-witted, empty, vapid etc.". Some of us have diverse tastes, Yes I like godard and herzog and kurosawa, but that doesn't mean I can't like Scorcese or Spielberg or Fincher or anyone else for that matter. Oh wait, according to you, I would never admit that, whoops! Believe it or not but there is an ugly side of hollywood, or anywhere for instance. Filled with trans-sexuals and murderers and people different from what is self-deemed 'normality'. Doesn't mean a man can't try to capture it.

I liked Julien Donkey-Boy, despite what anyone says. It was a strangely realistic documentary-style look into someone's life and the surroundings. I like the fact that he experimented with not only the film, but also the sound. Consider me a pretentious self-absorbed *beep*, but regardless, I still like harmony korine films.

reply

The problem as I see it is what Douglas Sirk comments on so vividly.“This is the dialectic—there is a very short distance between high art and trash, and trash that contains an element of craziness is by this very quality nearer to art.” Instead of juding movies on a spread from good on the left to bad on the right we have to look at it as almost a contiumum, as something that is circular if we take to heart what Sirk is trying to tell us. Therefore much of your debate, and much of the debate on IMDB is over the issue of is this movie "high art or is it trash" and if we once again take Sirk's words to heart we then realize that this debate is really quite asisine, because the difference between the two is really quite small. Because the thing is that differentiating between the two is very difficult and it comes down to very personal views rather than an established, almost scientific based view of looking at a movie.

And lastly yes, oh yes it is fun to agrue about movies and call some else a dumb assed moron who couldn't find his way out of his mother uterus, and if I would defintely say that you guys should continue to argue the fact over is this movie high art or is it trash, but at the same time realize that the distinction between the two is quite small.

"Lets get in a square and fight!" -Barry Lyndon

reply

Okay, what specifically (SPECIFICALLY) about Julien Donkey-Boy is pretentious without you yourself reading too much into the intent of Korine in making the film or the motivation behind anyone enjoying it? This is parallel to say some "bloviating fool" trying to produce a concrete message out of a non-linear plot.

reply

Pretentiousness or self indulgence is rife in this film; e.g.s the over-use of Herzog's improvisational turns and the dead fetus theft incident at the end of the film, which has no moral purpose or message but is used, IMO, as a means of mimicking the "bad taste" elements of the previous Dogme films "The Idiots" and "Festen". This film does not actually get inside the mind of its character; all it does is give us a series of imitations of the mannerisms of Harmony's uncle and tacks on a few jump cuts to attempt to "explain" what is going on in his head. As a result, Harmony is "pretending" to get inside the mind of the character but is really just showing off by using technique and adhering to the dogme guidelines.

reply

There's nothing more pretentious or self-indulgent than when a film presents a message or assumes a moral position.

reply

There's nothing more pretentious or self-indulgent than when a forum poster presents a message or assumes a moral position.

reply

Although the film may strike one as pretentious or even ostentatious, any film that has an incestual fetus killed by its ice skating mother is everything but typical.

reply

[deleted]

That's a very good point, and there are many filmmakers out there who think putting their characters through terrible situations will automatically merit cinematic praise, and for the most part, that's exactly what they get. However I honestly can't see that so much with Julien Donkey-Boy. Gummo? Yes, but not Julien Donkey-Boy. I can't say the whole film isn't pretentious, because some scenes certainly are, but I don't think Julien Donkey-Boy should be the indie film you should be going after.

reply

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Pot meets kettle!

The answer to any and all questions is yes, we love you even if you are fat, with pimples.
~FZappa

reply

[deleted]