MovieChat Forums > The Big Kahuna (2000) Discussion > Who of you out there can sympathize with...

Who of you out there can sympathize with Bob?

posted 17 years ago by John-G
31 replies | jump to latest

Who of you out there can sympathize with Bob?

Because I absolutely can not!

I'm not religious, but i have respect for my friends who are, and i can understand their reasons.
But i can't understand Bob, he's not in balance. Let me explain that:

Bob was at that convention for his job. He had to do his job by talking about lubricants. Instead, he chose to talk about God.
Now, if God is more important for you then lubricants, then I can understand that. But if you can't function normally in this world (read: just doing your job) because all you can do/talk/think about is God, then what kind of life do you have?
What a loser Bob is, such a simple job, and not being able to do it. In 10 years he'll be a bum lying on the street preaching about God. What's good about your life then?

Now don't get me wrong, i'm not a career guy. If i was religous, then surely God would have been a high priority. But come on, I would still try to keep my job if it required not to talk about God all the time. Just for the sake of getting some money to buy me food at least.

I really got into the movie, i really liked it. Especially near the end. When I heared that bob scewed up the second chance to talk to Fuller, i almost jumped up and wanted to yell to him what a complete moron he is. I almost hated him....

I wonder if there are people who watched this movie and got happy when hearing that Bob still talked about religion with Fuller the second time and not about lubricants. I think we can have a good discussion. It's not that i'm looking for a fight or something, but i just have very big emotional feelings when it comes to stuff like this (read: complete anger, disappointment etc), and i like to talk/debate about it :D

[–] gumborific 17 years ago

Maybe you can look at it this way.

People don't talk about these things regularly...these are characters speaking written lines, but "looking" as if they are real people.

Rather than say he is a loser I think it is just a very poorly written character that does not represent what we think to be a logical viewpoint or natural progression for him.

There are plenty of characters in plays and movies that have revelations and this character just doesn't do it for me, or you, apparantly.

I would have to believe in the character to think he was a loser, and I just don't believe in the character.

One guy is the sarcastic salesman who uses this sarcasm to get by, one is the guy who eventually realizes that he has wasted his time in a dead end job, and the other is the new kid on the block who could very well end up like either of the other two, or maybe even end up like the client they fawn over. Genius? No....essentially, it's boring crap.

"With our wings that bark, flashing teeth of brass, standing tall in the dark" - David Bowie

[–] dave1031 17 years ago

Well if you were religious and a Christian like Bob was, you'd know that in the Bible it tells you to spread God's word. "Everyone that acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly father. But whoever denies me before others I will deny before my heavenly father." Matthew 10:33.
That's what Bob was doing, spreding God's word, and putting his soul above material possessions. "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his soul?" Mark 8:36.
That was part of the message of the movie I'm assuming, and that was why the confict erupted.
Bob did'nt want to appear as a phony to The Big Kahuna, by switching the conversation away from God to business. He might have done it the opposite way though, and seem just as sincere I think. But then there would be no movie.

[–] John-G 17 years ago

But what kind of a life do you have,
if you can't even do a normal job anymore just because you have to spread the word of God?

(You will end up a homeless alcoholic bum, spreading the word of God through a sign laying on your lap....)

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] John-G 17 years ago

I'm the first to acknowlegde that you should do what makes you happy in life, and pursue it. If our (example) alcoholic bum is feeling fulfilled, i respect that.
I don't know if i allready told this: but i'm not a carreer or money guy too (so that's not the reason i didn't understand bob why he was throwing his job away)
So you're right on that point.

About what God wants you (us??) to do, and what he doesn't want (leading a miserable life), i can't say anything. I'm not religious...

No personal offence, but i kinda see God as a imaginairy friend for adults to make them feel better about themselves and life. And that's ok. (expect when Christians start burning other people like in the Inquisition)
But maybe he's real, i can't proof that (and you can't prove that he does exist). Just as love for a person can't be proved either...

[–] info-3700 17 years ago

I'm not religious in any way, shape or form. All religion has given us is war, terror and pain. For me that totally outweighs the supposed love of a mythical being.

For me to constantly live in fear of causing the wrath of this god is not a way to live life, and will go unrewarded.

While we are on this earth we need to put food on the table, clothes on our back and a roof over our head. Religion doesn't do that, no one is going to come along with loaves and fishes to feed us. We have to work, we have to have a career, we need to take care of our family.

Family is more important than god. I have known many men who have sacrificed their family for a so-called god. One guy in particular preaches in Oxford Circus, instead of providing for his family. You can't stop hunger by preaching a gospel. You can't home the kids on the street by quoting scripture and you certainly can't buy shoes for the third world by saying god loves you.

When was the last time any miracles happened? For me it would be a single week to go by in Iraq without any bombs and killings. All done in the name of god? How many people are innocent bystanders? Is it god's choice that they die?

So back to the film, I was enraged and annoyed at Bob, in this world where the bottom line is paramount and people trust you to do a job, you need to do it right. Of course its only a character, but how many people like that exist? Especially in the US?

[–] jfuex 17 years ago

Wow. You have some issues. Mind the massive generalizations though. Any argument that begins with "All" or "None" tends to be flawed from the get go. If you are honest with yourself you will find that man has no trouble being horrible to others without invoking the name of God. Religion may be the source of some such conflicts, but I would argue the lack of religion would open the door to many more.

One thing that has always befuddled me is the question of why non-religious types have any inclination towards ethics without something to tether their morals to. In a random world with no moral authority, it is idiotic to be altruistic further than it benefits you. Social contracts only go so far. They justify the "Its okay if you don't get caught" mentality because the only debt owed is a superficial one that protects you from the wrath of others. I could be wrong, and maybe the world is filled with people pretending to care for others in the hopes of reciprocation or social karma. However, if I am wrong then it is meaningless anyway (no foul), if I am right then it means there is meaning and you are missing out on it.

As for Bob, I have to respect someone who puts ethics above their job duties. We have seen what happens in the furtherance of the interests of the company over personal ethics clearly. You just don't agree with the particular ethical framework. Would you feel differently if the guy was using his position to convince people to feed the poor or help the environment?

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] pulpfaction06 16 years ago

bob was entrusted to do a job.
and society wouldn't fall apart if there was no religion.

Anyways,
bob was entrusted by his coworkers to do a job, but he was innocent to the fact, that its not just him on the line, and he didn't realize that. It was all about God, spreading Jesus' love, when other men, need to live there lives, they need to score these associates. Its there liveliehood. He screwed two men out of this, just cause he talked about God first. good for him for believing that God is important, good for him for being a good christian, but he should find a new line of work, if he can't handle talking BS, to get things done. Cause thats what the job entails, a level of honest dishonesty.

And maybe he saves the man's soul, what about the other two men in that room, good men, who've devoted there lives to that BS, it's a crap thing to do to them. bottom line, he shouldn't be in that line of work, he should be a missionary, or work in a church, or something else, im not saying he shouldn't have any job, but you are workiing for someone.

Christopher Walken: "Im the anti-christ and you got me in a vendetta kind of mood." (True Romance)

[–] jfuex 17 years ago

Religion is a burden in a lot of ways. You have to learn to look at things like this from the other person's perspective to understand it.

Think about it this way. If you were absolutely certain in your mind and heart that another human being were going to suffer needlessly out of ignorance of the way to avoid it not only for life, but for eternity...wouldn't you feel obliged to "push your beleifs" on that person? Selling lubricants would seem pretty insignificant by comparison.

I know it is hard to do, especially if you aren't a religious person, but if you walk a mile in that person's shoes it seems a lot more altrustic than pushy. I mean, what does that person have to gain personally other than a sense of doing right by his fellow man by taking a chance at being belittled for trying to express his views to a normally hostile world?

By metaphor, would you consider someone trying to warn you about a bomb in the building as forcing their beliefs on you? What if you disagreed with them about whether the bomb was in the building or even existed? Does it make impune their efforts if you don't beleive them given that they are certain of it?

Food for thought...

[–] rileyjenkins28 17 years ago

I love how this guy (gumborific) says in multiple posts how much he thinks this movie sucks but then he takes time out of his life to write long posts on a movie he thought was horrible. i would rather spend time talking about movies i really liked.

[–] Swift-12 17 years ago

Yes, he was annoying. That's the POINT.
Bob is young, idealistic, and naive. I've known a lot of people like Bob. True Believers -- and I'm not talking just about Christianity.

He has a lot of growing up to do, and he's well on his way after his final chat with Phil. Hopefully he'll never stop growing.

What makes these characters so interesting to me is that they each have their own strengths and weaknesses. By the end they've all grown by their interactions with one another.

||||||
||||||

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Jakezen 16 years ago

Spot on andy, well said.

[–] johnnyx_xcat 16 years ago

it seems pretty simple.

true believers believe that you either believe in god or go to hell for eternity. with that belief, a compassionate believer will value nothing other than trying to get people to avoid hell. they look at this life as a speck in eternity. they are willing to sacrifice their job, etc, for others.

with that perspective, bob is doing what he should. good for him. sure he's annoying if wrong. he's doing the only thing anybody will ever remember or be thankful for, if right.

true skeptics believe this life is all you get. with that belief, a skeptic will seek their own pleasure and fulfillment above all else. they are never willing to sacrifice their job, pleasure, fulfillment, etc. for others, especially not strangers.

however, most people hedge their bets. they think about the possibility of both scenarios. they don't believe in the strict dogma, but they try to do good just in case something is watching or judging. they rationalize that empathy makes sense and keeps everybody comfortable. i won't kill you, if you don't kill me.

however, if you think god doesn't exist and are 100% convinced, what is stopping you from lying, cheating, stealing, at every opportunity to better your life? if you knew you wouldn't get caught, why not kill for your own benefit?

Nietzsche teachings, if you focus solely on, "god is dead", don't take much tweaking until you become an immoral tyrant. look at nazi germany. sure they created some weird religion out of it. but it was mainly all pageantry.

both athiests and the religious have done horrible things. neither offending group proves whether god exists or what his nature is. compassiontae athiests nor the compassionate religious prove anthing either.

[–] bunnywithanaxe 16 years ago

(sigh)

To respond to the OP--

I was so much like Bob when I was a young Lutheran girl. I totally would have been incensed at the portrayal in this movie. It would have hit way too close to home.

Now that I am a more mature (but still quite religious) person, I want the other two to give him hell, and the main reason is this-- there is nothing honorable, praiseworthy, or CHRISTLIKE about going back on an agreement with a friend, or by putting the professional reputation--perhaps even the careers-- of your teammates in jeopardy simply to score some religious Brownie points. Sure he might have turned one guy on, but in a much more important way he turned two guys off.

In other words, Bob was being a selfish jackass, and tried to hide it under a halo. However, he seemed to realise this as the film closed.

As per the Bible verse, when Bob gets to heaven, Jesus is gonna say, "I was hungry, you fed me not. I was thirsty, you gave me not to drink. I was counting on you to square a really important career-saving business deal for me, and you DORKED ME OVER!"

(Well, probably not, but you know what I mean.)

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Mindless0426 16 years ago

Now i'm not in any way defending Bob so don't get me wrong. I was just as annoyed with the characters actions as anyone else but I do have to point one thing out and if I am mistaken please tell me. Bob isn't actually a marketing rep. he is part of the technical support and research team that was sent there for such reasons as his position would entail I.E for technical questions. He has never been to one of these sales conventions before and most likely didn't completely grasp the idea of what they were supposed to be doing there. The everyday tasks that his job entails most likely has little to do with the actual selling of a product but more the develpoment and design of it. So in his line of work his religious beliefs probably don't deter him from his job as it did trying to the job set before him in the movie. like I said I'm not defending Bob but did have to add that.

Could you blow me where the pampers is? PCU

[–] reason07 16 years ago

Bob's argument that he was just spreading the word of God is WRONG.

Here's why:

In Bob's view you can either spread the word of God

OR

live a materialistic lifestyle where a job makes people into "functions".

Bob CHOSE to do this job. Therefore he should do it. The job isn't harming people and it is a legal job, therefore, him doing his job properly is the right thing to do.

Likewise, to a degree (a small on probably too), Bob CHOSE to believe in God.

Now here's the problem, Bob, like others have said is an idealist. He wants both (obviously-unless you choose to live off wildlife you need money for food), but jeapordises one for the other.

HOWEVER, you can have both, and it's this he doesn't realise. You do your job and to survive/live a fulfilled life, and then after work you spread God's message or w/e he would want to do. It's this bit which made me so annoyed with him. Because all he's done in his argument is have two polar points and said you can only choice one. It's as if he's said;
"Which one's better; Facism or Communism?"
And you say (for eg) Communism and then he calls you a communist, when in fact you believe in a different form of government, but were forced to make a choice from a close question.

Also, his "function" argument is *beep* up. Any job you do, all you are is a function. JOB=FUNCTION. When a PC does a job it is functioning, likewise for people. Even if you are helping AID victims (as this is your job), you are only functioning. Talking to a client about God doesn't make you better because you aren't functioning. You could talk about anything. Say you were talking about sport instead of getting the deal done, would that make you a better person? Especially in these conventions where people CHOOSE to be "used" and where they know that conversation will probably lead to a business deal.

All-in-all he's annoying and needs to learn that his idealistic views can't and will never work in a world where people do "functions" to survive and be fulfilled.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jaddjamar 14 years ago

I wanted to wring his neck, I was on Spacey's side of the argument the whole way. Bob was being paid to do a job and he failed to do it, he should be fired. If I was paid to go to a convention and instead I went to a movie it would amount to the same thing.

Too old to die young, and too young to grow up.

[–] zephyr-123 14 years ago

"however, if you think god doesn't exist and are 100% convinced, what is stopping you from lying, cheating, stealing, at every opportunity to better your life? if you knew you wouldn't get caught, why not kill for your own benefit?"

I'm not an atheist but I will never understand the religious belief that if you are, you must automatically be unethical, immoral and evil. An atheist is just as capable of doing the math that there are consequences to one's actions. An atheist doesn't have to believe that someone is watching them or is going to throw them into some hell at the end of their life to be persuaded to do the right things in their life. An atheist is just as capable of living a loving ethical existence as someone religious and often without hypocrisy. They don't need to be babysat to do the right thing--they can see the right thing with their own eyes. To believe that if you are religious you are automatically a superior person in the way you live is hypocrisy. There are plenty of religious people who do evil and sometimes because of their religion or because of their twisted version of religion.

"Thanks for the Dada-ist peptalk. I feel much more abstract now."-Buffy

[–] bunnyhugger52 14 years ago

I can sympathize with Bob. He was Not a sales rep. He was also told it wasn't his job. He was also new at his tech job and he was also young. Larry was a bully. Arrogant, Overbearing, obnoxious. He put down everyone for everything.
He stomps on other people's feelings without any care. He was critical of even everything Phil did. But just like any Bully. They are filled with low self worth. But there is a child down deep inside that is crying out, that wants to be loved and cared for. Phil felt powerless and defeated. He felt he had lost everything including his self respect. He knew he should have taken Larry down a peg years ago, because if you don't a bully can't grow. When each of these guy's has their dream, Larry was to wear a crown and have everyone bow down to him, Bob's was to be a cool bartender and Phil's was to have a good drink, a good smoke and then jump off the balcony. But Bob awakened a long buried feeling in Phil and gets a revelation that he has a mission from God. He has new understanding of things he never understood before, one that he truly loved these two guys and his mission was a go between for Larry and Bob and help them both grow and understand each other and in doing his mission, he would also no longer be powerless and defeated.

[–] psdhart 13 years ago

i agree

[–] HaroldCarter 14 years ago

"however, if you think god doesn't exist and are 100% convinced, what is stopping you from lying, cheating, stealing, at every opportunity to better your life? if you knew you wouldn't get caught, why not kill for your own benefit?"

So the only reason you don't do those things is because you believe an invisible man in the sky is watching you? I hope I'm not standing anywhere near you when you figure out that's not the case.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 11 years ago

LOL, well said!

--------
See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc

[–] PsychoDingo 12 years ago

*** Spoilers Within ***

The easy answer is that Bob is an idiot. The team had a goal: to talk to Fuller that night and pitch him on the product line. Bob blew it...dropped the ball...stopped the team from achieving the goal.

But that's just a near term goal. And maybe the easy answer isn't the right one in the big picture.

At the end of the movie, we see Bob with Fuller, yet again. Larry and Phil have Fuller's phone number, but can't even get an appointment with him. On the other hand, Bob has his full attention, not once, but three times. Maybe Fuller loves Jesus as much as Bob does.

If the scope of the story were to be extended, we might see that Bob should not be given sympathy, but credit for developing a real relationship with a very important client. For all we know, Bob's Bible thumping could be laying the groundwork for a hugely-profitable long-term business arrangement.

[–] GuyOnTheLeft 11 years ago

IF he ends up landing the client, then yes. And I think the next day, he was headed that way. But the night before, he seemed very loath to even hint at anything about business, for fear of seeming insincere. And Larry had a very fair point that the company was not sending him to Wichita and paying for his room and board so he could spread the Good Word. He should go get a grant from his church if he wants to travel and evangelise.

--------
See a list of my favourite films here: http://www.flickchart.com/slackerinc