Bob Skir said that in his defense. On his website, and it's still up. Skir said, "True, but Hasbro wanted this series to be independent of the other series so that new audiences would be keyed-in, rather than being left behind by references to shows that were written 20 years before these kids were even born!
Put it this way, Marty and I told the Hasbro people that we were not Transfans, and they hired us anyway. We offered to read about the old shows and watch them and all, and Hasbro discouraged us from doing so, urging us to instead follow their edict to make the show more spiritual in nature. They encouraged us to follow our own path, and so we did.
All of the original G-1 writers are still around; Hasbro and Mainframe instead called on us, and let us do the show we wanted to do." As we know, Forward and DiTillo left on bad terms with Hasbro. Hasbro wanted the story to go there way.
Skir said he watched the series anyway. Does it show? Not really, unless you take Rattraps complaining in the pilot ep of BW as justification for the way his character went later, or if you only watched the multi-parters enough you to throw in line like "oh dark poison of my heart..." every now and again. That's what I think happened. The new writers and Hasbro had a story in their mind, or their "own edict" already, and being true to the characters came second to their vision.
http://bigbot.com/beast-machines-transformers-bob-skir/Beast-Machines-FAQ/Tue_07_Mar_2000.html
And really Sam, there's no need to start throwing unfound accusations and childish insults. Even Skir recognized he had a lot to live up to. "And whereas Marty and I are very proud of the work we're doing on Beast Machines, we fully recognize that we are building on concepts and characters made by others, most significantly Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward, who did such a great job on Beast Wars!"
http://bigbot.com/beast-machines-transformers-bob-skir/Beast-Machines-FAQ/Tue_07_Mar_2000.html
Furthermore, I don't know how he comes to the conclusion that his show had the characters winning by cunning as he said and not by gun violence. That does not mean that we needed bullets in the show. But a lot of the weapons didn't have any realistic bases in a sci-fi show, which is was, and not fantasy. You can't hang glide on swords and how would Cheetor's back be supported? Electricity does not travel over solid and sleek surfaces; it needs conduits such as cables in the floor. If they were to electricute some Vehicon the vehicon would not blow up or pop off the ground. I can't even tell you what it is Botanica does when she roots into the organic substances and screams. I prefer the guns at this point.
"I personally would rather see heroes winning the day using their natural abilities and cunning than firepower. That's my personal preference. Hasbro said that this approach was what they were looking for, so we were both in synch (I didn't approach them with this radical notion; we approached each other and agreed). And whereas Fox will allow certain forms of guns and ammunition to be used in their shows, they generally shy away from it when it isn't necessary (and with characters with as many abilities and as much smarts as our Maximals possess, why arm them?). So, let's just say that We (the writers), Fox, Hasbro, and Mainframe agreed to dis-arming our heroes, thus pitting them against a planet of heavily-armed villains which will push them to their very limits, making them all the more heroic for the victories that they achieve.
I'm sorry if my personal approach/preferences disgusts/annoys/offends fans who like seeing heroes heavily armed. But for them, there *are* heroes who *do* need guns (such as the Punisher). Spider-Man doesn't need guns. Neither does the Hulk. And neither do Optimus, Cheetor, Black Arachnia, et al."
And it always seemed like the day was saved by luck. The Maximals were always running away barely ever being detectives about a situation. I didn't even see them come up with stretegies they actually followed through with until the three parter that ended the series.
http://bigbot.com/beast-machines-transformers-bob-skir/Beast-Machines-FAQ/Sat_06_Nov_1999.html
On a different note, you know how a lot of us feel Rhinox was misportrayed. Hey Skir admitted he felt the same way. He wanted Rhinox to have a certain sadness about his decision not a maniacal anger. "In # 9, Rhinox explains that he disagrees with Optimus. The reading from the actor has Rhinox growling and shouting these lines, which makes him seem corrupted (or, at the very least, not in his right mind). It was my *actually* intent for the lines to be read SADLY, to give the turnabout a poignant tone! But I wasn't there, so what can you do? I wanted the friends to be reunited... only to part company. But the "angry" reading makes it look almost like Optimus is abandoning his friend just when he needs Optimus the most!" That kind of makes it better for me but in the end, Rhinox still would not have made this damn choice.
http://bigbot.com/beast-machines-transformers-bob-skir/Beast-Machines-FAQ/Fri_03_Dec_1999.html
In fact, I really want to read through all the FAQ's and see just how well they did what he said they'd do. He doesn't seem so much like the devil's spawn I made him out to be once. But what an atrocious sequel to create all the same.
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DuskQ
17 years ago
It's better than the $h*tty fanwank BW was turning into by season 3. I'll take morally ambigious, deep chars over goody two-shoes any day.
Depth Charge was the ultimate contrast to that statement. Silverbolt we never saw in such a rage prior to Crossing the Rubicon. And Blackarachnia, especially went against the typical Predacon ideal several times including in Cutting Edge, then embrasses her defect to Maximals with an "Even if I'm good I'm still bad." Essentailly characters in BW were morally ambiguous, deep, and everything else you're talking about, even in Season 3. Then lets not even get strated on Dinobot throughout season 2.
Season 3 suffered in the fact that they had to introduce too many new character that they couldn't develop (Tigerhawk and DInobot II). Depth Charge's mean streak due to his grudge got old got old. And Episodes that would have expounded on some character such as the imfamous "Dark Glass" were cut and replaced with fillers. I also felt the multi-parters to end seasons previously were better when characters and their relationships were driving the plot (i.e. Blackarachnia and Terantulas in Other Voices) instead of the need to pack as many explosions and warcruisers as possible into a sole battle. Rampage and Depth could have settled things earlier than "Nemesis" and I would have been happy. All that being said, Beast Wars as a whole was a far superior show to Beast Machines.
And I really hate Star Trek. I don't know it front to back to continue this analogy. But how in the world did you assume I meant there's something wrong with spin-offs or sequels? Star Trek: Deep Space 9 and all those had new crews, not old characters like Capt. Kirk. It's only when you use old characters and don't respect the personalities, outlooks, and desires that defined them that you've ruined the prequel. And the points of all these characters are to grow and change but they still have a basic character to be true to.... You know I'd like to use a character introduced for Beast Machines as an example to how a character rremains true to a personality and and can still grow, but BM characters don't have definable personality traits and outlooks.
Nightscream was defined by his brooding loner syndrome that quickly became whining. But if I could use a hypothetical BM character I'd say something like, "He's logical, and passionate about an idea he get's his mind set onto." Then he's a character defined by his traits and outlooks, not the plot. Then I would say something like it's ridiculous for a character as analytical as Figurative Nightscream to trust a figurative floating orb that claims to be speaking from the grave to him. He'd want to disect it and probe it. Why then did Figurative Nightscream just take the advice of the orb and attack all the Maximals with an explosive device? This is a disgrace to the Figurative Nightscream I grew to know and love!
That's all I've ever been saying. There's a difference between being out of character and character development.
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lars10561
17 years ago
If you ask me the shows were about evolution, Beast Machines showing the final stages of evolving from metal life to technoorganic life....granted they didn't do the best job of explaining it, but that's how I viewed, they became more "goody" because they were evolving into more peaceful lifeforms, I find the G1-beastwars-Beast machine story to be captivating.
Granted if it were aimed at an adult audience it would have been 10 times better.
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DuskQ
17 years ago
That's not what either of us were saying, whether or not you see the concept of the show to be intriguing.
If you ask me the shows were about evolution, Beast Machines showing the final stages of evolving from metal life to technoorganic life....granted they didn't do the best job of explaining it, but that's how I viewed, they became more "goody" because they were evolving into more peaceful lifeforms, I find the G1-beastwars-Beast machine story to be captivating.
Sam thinks the
Beast wars was full of one-dementional "goody-goodies," Not Beast Machines. he's not arguing that BM made them more goody-goody. Nor am I.
I don't think either show was filled with stereotypical heros who can do no wrong.
I think Beast Machines didn't develop characters at all, and they disregarded who characters were from before. They either got stuck in brooding jerk mode, or come to new outlooks without any real reasoning, let alone reasoning that makes sense for their characters. For instance Optimus in the second season realizes his error was failing to find a balance between organics and technology, but really it was that he kept mindlessly taking orders from the Oracle which was corrupted by Rhinox. Then he
continues to take orders from the Oracle without double checking! WTF. Optimus from BW was not the kind of leader to fall apart from guilt. He didn't sulk off when things went wrong; he took charge and made it better. BM doesn't get him.
Granted if it were aimed at an adult audience it would have been 10 times better.
I also disagree about aiming it at an adult audience. The best shows reach all demographics and age ranges, like Batman the Animated Series and Gargoyles.
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