MovieChat Forums > Hitman Hart: Wrestling with Shadows (1998) Discussion > HHH + HBKs involvement? Please Read.

HHH + HBKs involvement? Please Read.

posted 18 years ago by nails_s_o_b
34 replies | jump to latest

This post is not here to discuss the fact that Bret got screwed because I guess its fact that he did - although I know Bret couldn't leave with the belt as it would be a financial disaster for Vince - however tjings were agreed and Vince didn't stick to those things no matter what the consequences.

What I want to discuss is whether HHH & HBK were actually in on the screw job.
My opinion and I suppose its more of a hope is that they weren't. People are saying that they were in on it because of the way they acted on the following RAW thats not enough proof in my eyes. If you watch the climax of the Survivor Series match, HBK is actually about to sell Brets sharpshooter, he is willing to let Bret reverse it, however Vince has already asked for the bell to be rung. With HBK selling this move, it suggests he was sticking to the original plan - but of course they were cut short. Now in my eyes, if HBK didn't know about the screw job, HHH certainky wouldn't - and he seems very sincere when specking to Bret's wife "swearing to God" he had no idea. Well I believe them both. HBK was sat in tears in the dressing room later, and I doubt thats out of guilt.

I'm not denying that the way they acted on the following RAW was wrong, but if you think about it, Vince decides what happens and he would have been very angry, having just been punched out by Bret. Its clear that he had also sent out a clear message to superstars that he was in charge and that no-one was bigger than him. HBK and HHH probably knew this and didn't have a choice in what they did, even though it was shallow.

If anyone has any facts or information for this post, maybe we could come to some solid conclusion.

Cheers, Ross George

[–] boriken8314 18 years ago

HBK admitted about two years ago on an interview with legendary wrestling broadcaster "Mean" Gene Okerlund in a show called "WWE Confidential", that he was involved in the plan of the so called "Montreal Screwjob". He also said that Triple H,Chyna, and Referee Earl Hebner were involved as well on what was going to happen that night during the championship match.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] shadyvsesham 18 years ago

Sadly, they were in on it. Shawn denied it for years, but like someone else has said on Confidental he finally admitted himself, HHH, and Chyna all knew. Earl also knew.

Also, ive read other articles, and Triple H was the one with the idea. I heard the whole screw Job was Triple H's idea. I forgot where I heard it from, but it was a pretty reliable source.

[–] AJ420 18 years ago

Sad really, they probably did feel guilty about doing it (HHH AND HBK) but Vince was the guy calling the shots and in the end HBK went along with it.

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[–] kingcole_78405 18 years ago

I think that Triple H knew, but I dont believe he orchastrated the whole thing, as someone mentioned earlier. I think he was going along for the ride at the time.

[–] Gurtejdhillon 17 years ago

what about vince he's did knew about this

[–] scotty2375 17 years ago

Just as it says by another poster HBK In his book did say that he and HHH Knew about it. Infact if i remember correctly in the book HBK says HHH was the 1st one to bring up the idea in a phone call with Shawn and Vince.
The thing that puzzels me is in Shawn's book he claims it was his idea for the finish! In Vince Russo's book he says it was his idea! It is intresting topic that we may never know all the answers to!

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] mike316-2 17 years ago

HHH in no way feels bad about his part in the screw job of Bret. HHH has made it very well known the he does not like Bret at all. It's not an angle but real life heat between the two. HHH always thought Bret was overrated.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] mike316-2 17 years ago

I agree that HHH is over rated. I think that Hart is over rated as well not so much as HHH. The guy was fourty years old when he was in the 1997 Survior Series. He should have just dropped the title. He's like so many of todays wrestlers. They have the same four moves. HHH has the face buster, the sledge hammer, the knee lift, and the hay maker punch. Austin has the Lou Thesz press, the mud hole stomp, the close line, and elbow smash. Hart had the heart attack, the kick to the face, the punch to the face in the turnbuckle, and the best side russian leg sweep to this day.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] mike316-2 17 years ago

It does suck he had a stroke. Did you see the Vince appreciation thing they did and he commented on it. It was one of the funniest things I have ever watched. He looks bad too.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] mike316-2 17 years ago

Oh yeah I'am just saying he didn't look so good. I'am not saying a stroke is an easy thing to come back from.

[–] the_godfather_43 16 years ago

In relation to the screw job HHH and HBK did know about it as previously stated. The thing is Vince McMahon didn't want Bret to go on WCW in a few weeks holding the WWF Championship Belt. But Bret promised the next night on Raw after Survivor Series he would give up the belt, he just wanted to win his last fight in his home country. Vince tried to tell Bret it would be best for the company for him to lose to HBK at Survivor Series but he didn't want too, so they came to an agreement that the match would end in a DQ. Bret should have given up the title at survivor series but his huge ego and not wanting to lose in front of his home fans lead him to disagreeing with Vince's original decision for HBK to defeat Bret.

In the end "Bret Hart...Screwed Bret Hart." (Jim Ross)

[–] boowallace 16 years ago

um...no. The reason (and like Bret said on his DVD that we could never have all the facts from both sides when this happened) that Bret refused to job once again to HBK is b/c HBK would never return the favor back to him. This is the '97 HBK. I'm not sure if Born Again Christian Shawn would do a thing like this, but who knows. I can promise you that had it been Undertaker, Mankind, Ken Shamrock, and anyone else who would gladly have returned the favor he would have said yes. Shawn had a hurt knee and "lost his smile" when he could've say done like in WM14 and go out for one last time and drop the belt in a match. Not the dumb forfeits he has become known for. HHH was capable of finishing a match with a torn quad twice, how come HBK couldn't walk out and have a match on that "lost his smile" day to Hart/Taker/Austin/Vader/Mankind/etc? I guess we'll never know that either. I'm not done with Bret's book yet so I'll post again when I have.

[–] itm5004 16 years ago

In regards to those of you that say Bret Hart is over rated, you must be part of the new generation of WWE fans. Bret Hart has been in numerous "top matches" of all time, find any list online. Vs Owen at WM 10 and Summerslam 94, Roddy Piper at WM8, Shawn at WM12, Austin at WM13, Mr. Perfect at Summerslam 1991 and the list goes on. I can't think of one real match (not Elimination Chamber or Hell in a Cell) that HHH has been in that is close to entertaining as any of those Bret Hart matches I just mentioned. HBK is a hypocrite in the sense that he didn't want to job to Hart after Hart jobbed to him, but he gets pissed in 2005 when Hogan doesn't want to job to him.

[–] nails_s_o_b 16 years ago

Thanks for all the info and replies to this topic guys.

Gutted that they were in on it. I do love HHH...but when I watch wrestling with shadows and know he's in on it, I kind of hate him!

[–] the_godfather_43 16 years ago

Um yes mate. Bret Hart screwed Bret Hart the selfish S.O.B he should have dropped the title and done what was right for the company that had been so good to him over the years regardless if he didn't want to job to HBK. Put that crap aside and get on with it the crybaby. He got what was coming too him.

[–] boowallace 16 years ago

In a business that you love, wouldn't you want to leave with some dignity and your head held high as a hero? Or would you like to be DISGRACED by the company he loved for so long? Is that how you repay his many years of servitude by doing this. I didn't see Vince try to renegotiate his contract or try to do what Chipper Jones did to keep Atlanta going when Time Warner didn't want to give any money to the Braves. How hard is it for Vince to defer payments that he would have made to Bret? I know Bret would have been more than happy to do that to keep the company afloat. Would HBK do that since he was the 2nd highest paid person in WWF or so it's lead to believe. Would you job to someone who told you personally that he appreciates that Bret would job to him, but he wouldn't do the same?

So don't put this "Bret screwed Bret" and "time honored tradion" *beep* on me. Watch the Bret Hart DVD or book to understand anything before you run your mouth.

[–] the_godfather_43 16 years ago

Hey Pal, you don't get it! I have read the book and seen the DVD and I like Bret Hart but he went about it the wrong way. Since when is Bret Hart bigger than the company? Since when was Bret Hart the boss of the WWF? He ain't the boss and he doesn't decide if he wins or loses! He would have been a nobody if it wasn't for Vince in the first place. When the boss says you do something you do it whether you like it or not. Everyone in life has to do things they don't want to do! Bret was selfish, he should have dropped the title as instructed but noooooooo, Bret didn't want to do that, he wanted to do things his way! Well bad luck buddy society and life doesn't work like that. He should have copped it on the chin, respected Vince's decision and got on with it, you don't always get what you want and not everything goes your way in life. Bret had a good run. He had to cry and complain about it, then he got screwed, bad luck. He DISGRACED himself! I get told to do things all the time at work I don't want to do, and have to work with people I don't want to, but do I cry about it and complain? No. I get on with it. HBK was an arrogant prick so what, he doesn't run the show, Vince makes the decisions. Bret Hart got what he deserved.

[–] boowallace 16 years ago

well he did have creative control on his character due to his contract, so as far as that is taken into account Vince breached his contract... If he wanted to forfeit the title and walk away with his head held high, he had the right to do so.

As to if it wasn't for Vince, he wouldn't be a star. I just can't agree with you on that one. He was a huge star in Canada, which is why Vince wanted to acquire Stampede Wrestling. Also, Bret was known in Japan having wrestled over there and taking on wrestlers such as Tiger Mask. If it wasn't for the formation of the Hart Foundation, Bret would've went to Japan or something to wrestle b/c he didn't like the idea of being "Cowboy" Bret Hart.

A lawsuit couldve happened in today's society if a breach of contract were to happen. Thats what a buyout is for.

Also, why did Vinnie Mac even put the title on Bret if he knew he was in deep *beep* and couldn't honor Brets contract. Why not let Taker keep the title? Go into the Hell In A Cell match and drop the title to Shawn. Wouldn't that make more sense?

I dont think Bret deserved going out the way he did, going to a company that *beep* up when it came to using him as McMahon stated that u could really build a company around him, and getting brutally injured b/c of a Goldberg sorry assed attempt at a superkick.

I applaud u for reading his book and watching his dvd, but we both will never know all the facts or the real story about this Montreal incident. All we have is speculation or opinions.

[–] the_godfather_43 16 years ago

hey buddy good post . Ive actually agreed with a lot of you have been saying. The whole situation was pretty f###ed up. I just enjoyed the argument and the different points to the "Montreal Screw Job". Have a good one mate.

[–] boowallace 16 years ago

I remember watching it live and wondering why if Bret was in a submission like he was, why they didn't get a close-up of his face or his body so we could see him give up? I knew something was up when that bell rang and the fact mentioned above. It was just surreal.

[–] CptHowdy87 15 years ago

Since when is Bret Hart bigger than the company? Since when was Bret Hart the boss of the WWF? He ain't the boss and he doesn't decide if he wins or loses! He would have been a nobody if it wasn't for Vince in the first place.

Bret had creative control for his last 30 days in the company, he had every right to go out the way he wanted even without the fact that Michaels flat out said infront of the boys in the dressing room that he would never return the favour to Bret. Bret worked his F'ing ass off for years in the WWF from 1984 until 1990 putting over other guys, Vince acknowledged him as a good worker but only ever used to him to build useless hacks like Dino Bravo, Bad News Brown and many others. Even when Bret was given his break it was cut short constantly having to drop the belt to Yoko after 3 months even though he was promised at-least a year with the title, then Hogan won back the belt and wouldn't even have a match with Bret let alone put him over, then Vince wanted to push Luger, then push Diesel and then Backlund. Bret was by far the biggest over seas attraction, clearly the most popular wrestler in the states, sold by far the most merchandise but Vince never fully got behind him.

This arrogant drug abusing prima donna who'd only speant a few years as part of a high flying tag-team gets a massive push and Bret has to put him over at Wrestlemania and carries Shawn to the best match he'd had or will ever have and get's told by this prick to "get the F out of my ring this is my time".

Shawn wouldn't put over Bret at WM13 and came up with the poorest excuse in history that his knee was hurt even though guys working with Shawn at the time said there was nothing apparantly wrong with his knee and then Shawn was fine the day after Mania anyway.

All through 1997 Shawn took the ultimate cheap shots at Bret and took real life pot shots at Bret during many of his promos and did nothing but cause headaches for everyone who had to work with him that year.

Why the hell should Bret have felt obliged to put Shawn over at Survivor Series?

And you talk about having to do things in your workplace that you don't want to do and work with people you don't like well then imagine you'd started off in a company from the very bottom and worked your way up for many years going un-noticed for the better part and then finally after you'd gotten a break and recongnition for your efforts the boss suddenly promoted a dissagreeable pain in the ass suck up to your level and the promoted him and demoted you below him, would you think that's fair? no, and you'd protest that you were a harder worker and more deserving, you'd want to fight to keep your place and wouldn't take it lying down while someone who made a 10th of the effort you did got to sky rocket ahead of you.

It's a rather common pattern that everyone who sides against Bret on the Montreal issue doesn't seem to have seen or heard anything beyond Vinces speach on RAW the next night. Anyone who knows the circumstances can't possibly believe Bret was in the wrong for not wanting to job to a guy who wouldn't job to him and that's really what it comes down to.

Why should Bret put over Shawn if Shawn wasn't willing to do the same? answer that one!

[–] grims4ever 11 years ago

Just like Bret thinks Triple H is 4/10

When Gotham is ashes, then you have my permission to die.

[–] Whisper928 16 years ago

What always puzzled me was whether or not a settlement was reached for violating Brett Harts contract, in which BH said (basically)"...Stipulated I could leave on my own terms".

All in all it was a pretty sad affair.

On a funny note. After Vince recieved a little chin tune-up, he, his family, HHH, HBK, Chyna, the ref and a few others all hid out in Vince's office.

[–] boowallace 16 years ago

I'm not sure, but I think by now it's water under the bridge b/w Vince and Bret at least. It was Vince, surpisingly enough, that called him first after he had his stroke.

I just have to ask, have Shawn and Hunter both asked Bret personally or by phone or any other means of direct communication that they were sorry about all this.

[–] BettOnThat 16 years ago

supposedly Bret still refuses to forgive Shawn, I don't think he cares one way or another about HHH, but he hasn't forgiven him either.

[–] shadyvsesham 10 years ago

Ill be honest, if I was Vince, Id done the same thing. In the end, Bret should have just jobbed the title to Shawn. That's what you do when going to a new company. I dont blame any of them, Ive always been in the small camp that blames Bret.

Also, idc about "creative control" you job the title.
Bret got his little butt butthurt when Hogan would not job to him. Listen to what Jimmy Hart says about that.

Jim Cornette summarizes it the best. Shawn-Bret were 2 little girls. Im tired of the,"I didnt wanna drop it in my hometown Canada."
1. You are from Calgary
2. What is an American star did this, from Detroit but wont drop it anywhere in America, nonsense.

Im tired of HBK said he wouldn't do the favor for Bret. He did do the favor to Bret. Watch SS92, Watch THE FIRST official ladder match. Two jobs right there.

Bret worked his @$$ off? They all do, what makes Bret high and mighty. Flair summed it up great. He didnt draw money, in the end this is about money. You really believe if Hart drawed SCSA type of $$$ Vince would have let him go? You say yes, youre delusional.

Nash said Bret was a big reason he left. Undertaker (He threatened Shawn at WM14, why he didnt threaten Bret, idk why)but in the IYH event, Nash wanted to powerbomb bret, then Undertaker would drag him down and Bret wins. Bret didnt wanna "look weak." Mark (Undertaker) finally said dude this company isnt all about YOU. This makes our match at wrestlemania have more meaning.

In the end, Nash got the call Bret said no. Nash went into the dressing room with Scott (Hall) and told him to tell Bischoff,"I'm in."

Bret was as big as a prima donna as was Shawn. Jake also said he didnt know why Vince were letting the boys run the asylum. Who did Bret job to cleanly - Shawn? Yoko had to throw powder in his eyes.

How about Mr. Perfect, doesnt he owe him a job? (2-0)

So in the end, Bret screwed Bret. You job the title, this isnt Jon Jones and the UFC. This is a fake wrestling title. Eric said Bret would whine about it for years. Scott said Bret sucked in WcW cuz he couldnt pre-shoot his promo, it was live.

I have no sympathy for him.

[–] 11 years ago

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