Jolt of Slavery Reality


I was impressed that this movie touched on the relationship between slavery and the aristocratic English lifestyle. SOMEBODY has to work to pay for those fancy parties and exotic clothing materials. Nothing is free.

I like how the movie showed normally reasonable, religious, upstanding citizens could turn into evil exploiters, torturers and rapists given the right circumstances. The same kind of man who'd want his poor neice to marry the first rich seeming guy to come along, and be grateful, is the same type who'd think slavery is OK. No matter how ugly it was to see in Mansfield Park, it was reality.

I bet the ugliness of life as the son of a slave holder in Antigua is part of what drove Tom Bertram to drink himself into sickness.


Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not.

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[deleted]

Yeah, I see what you're saying, anarchyscat7.

I took the comment about the tobacco farms as ironic. Kind of like out of the frying pan, into the fire. Maybe it was the family's ignorance as Englishmen that they didn't know that tobacco farming slavery in America could be equaly as brutal as sugar farming slavery on Antigua.

Changing the commodity being sold does nothing to address the general exploitation, sexual terrorism and ruthless torture that was depicted in the drawings.

I guess the main point is the Bertram family will continue to wear their pretty dresses and throw their little parties without dirtying breaking a sweat to earn that lifestyle.

Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not.

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I didn't mind that they put slavery in the film, what I did mind is them turning Sir Thomas into a rapist and a lecher. That did not happen at all in the book. He was stern and used to getting his own way yes, and he did try to push Fanny into marrying Henry; but that in no way implies that he's capable of raping slaves or even that he thinks slavery is ok. He thought Fanny's refusal of Henry was out of excessive modesty, or that she was just being obstinate. He did feel that Fanny owed obedience to him because of what he had done for her, but let's not forget this was a time when marriage was rarely for love among the upper classes, and viewed mostly as a monetary or social contract. Daughters were also supposed to show strict obedience to their parents and never to have their own opinions, but be guided by their parents in all matters, especially in anything as serious as marriage. But here's the thing that really annoys me about turning Sir Thomas into such a horrible man; trying to force Fanny to marry Henry and leaving her to the mercy of Aunt Norris while she was growing up were really his only major faults in the book. At the end of the novel, he realizes just how wrong he's been about how he treated her, and wrong about a lot of things. He is the only parental figure in Austen's fiction which goes through a growth process and changes in a wiser and better individual--every other parent is the same at the end of the story as they are at the beginning, except for Sir Thomas. So for that, I have a soft spot in my heart for Sir Thomas, and I was appalled at what they did to him in the film.
And in the novel, Thomas drinks and parties simply because he lives solely for pleasure. There's absolutely no noble sentiment behind his reasons for nearly drinking himself to death.

There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. That will be the beginning.

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[deleted]

In the novel, Sir Thomas was good at willfully, purposefully avoiding the truth.

There are several occasions, after his return from Antigua, that he purposefully fails to dig deeper because he really doesn't want to know the truth about his children's [mis]behavior.

From chapter 20:
He did not enter into any remonstrance with his other children: he was more willing to believe they felt their error than to run the risk of investigation. The reproof of an immediate conclusion of everything, the sweep of every preparation, would be sufficient [emphasis mine].

In chapter 21, Sir Thomas is concerned about Maria, fearing she doesn't really have any attachement at all to Mr. Rushworth. He confronts her about it, offering to break the engagement himself. But then he accepts her explanations because he'd RATHER not lose the posiblity of the connection to Rushworth's family and fortune. Here is his rationalization:

Sir Thomas was satisfied; too glad to be satisfied, perhaps, to urge the matter quite so far as his judgment might have dictated to others. It was an alliance which he could not have relinquished without pain; and thus he reasoned. Mr. Rushworth was young enough to improve. Mr. Rushworth must and would improve in good society; and if Maria could now speak so securely of her happiness with him, speaking certainly without the prejudice, the blindness of love, she ought to be believed. Her feelings, probably, were not acute; he had never supposed them to be so; but her comforts might not be less on that account; and if she could dispense with seeing her husband a leading, shining character, there would certainly be everything else in her favour. A well-disposed young woman, who did not marry for love, was in general but the more attached to her own family; and the nearness of Sotherton to Mansfield must naturally hold out the greatest temptation, and would, in all probability, be a continual supply of the most amiable and innocent enjoyments. Such and such-like were the reasonings of Sir Thomas, happy to escape the embarrassing evils of a rupture, the wonder, the reflections, the reproach that must attend it; happy to secure a marriage which would bring him such an addition of respectability and influence, and very happy to think anything of his daughter's disposition that was most favourable for the purpose.

As the previous quotation also reveals, Sir Thomas avoids the truth in matters that would force him to act against his own preferences or best interests. The following is another example of this point.


from chapter 25:
Sir Thomas was most cordially anxious for the perfection of Mr. Crawford’s character in that point. He wished him to be a model of constancy; and fancied the best means of effecting it would be by not trying him too long . [emphasis mine].

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I believe that Sir Thomas COULD have known all about how Norris treated Fanny; he simply chose NOT to know. He avoided the truth because what he didn't know about, he didn't have to worry about or act on.

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I see your point, and many others have made it on these boards; the Sir Thomas in the book was not accused of being a rapist or a cruel slaveowner. However, may I just suggest to you that anyone who owned slaves in the Carribean at this time must have been complicit in the kind of behaviors that you find so repellent? To me, the fact that you take offense with this depiction of a slaveowner suggests that you do not think that, on the whole, slaveowners were all that bad.

Rape, torture, beating, and general mistreatment were all a normal and (shudder) accepted part of that society. Just because Austen does not mention it in the novel doesn't mean we are meant to suppose that Sir Thomas is some kind of ideal man, a "good master" or some nonsense. Please. To assume that the default slave owner was kind and sympathetic is, frankly, naive. Perhaps Jane Austen was not aware of the conditions in Carribean sugar plantations, but we are today, and I refuse to be offended by the fact that the writer/director has added this layer of complexity to our modern understanding of the story.

While I am sure that not all slave drivers treated their slaves in this manner, you cannot deny that many, many slave women were raped. Many, many slaves were beaten. And the entirety of "polite" society just turned their backs on it. Sir Thomas's son's depictions of lurid, nightmarish drawings from Antigua reflected his own dark nature, but undoubtedy reflected the realities of life that he had witnessed. Their inclusion in the film actually made me sypathize with the wastrel son. One could see how he resented and judged his father. I found it very interesting to conceive of him as an artistic type who was deeply affected by what he saw in Antigua. He does nothing to change it, but in the end it is his horror over what he has seen, combined with Fanny's more stern and morally upright judgment, that influences the father to change his business (to something also dependent on slave labor, but I digress...)

What I love about this adaptation is that the filmmaker resists depicting Sir Thomas as a complete monster. He appears to be conflicted, seemingly mortified when Fanny realizes what he has done. And even though we judge him for his deeds, he is still the moral center of the family. He maintains an upright and virtuous code within his own household, despairing at the decadence of both his wayward son and daughter while recognizing Fanny's own superior character. He is both noble and deeply, deeply flawed. I like the ambiguity; it led me to a deeper reflection on the hypocrisies surrounding the slave-owning class.

Perhaps we are to think that Sir Thomas's own conflicted nature leads him to be unduly harsh and repressive to his own family...yet somehow, his moral faults lead to a decay in his household, which leads to his son's depressive behavior and his daughter's desperate and brazen willingness to escape. It's like some kind of darkness or rot that imbues the entire family. (The director has said as much in her commentary, so I'm not saying anything new here...just find it a very interesting theme to bring out).

Even Austen's novel contained foreboding hints that Sir Thomas was a somewhat dark and oppressive man, but she too depicted him as moderate and somewhat judicious in regards to Fanny. In this way, then, I honestly think the script was loyal to Austen's novel...maybe reading very, very deeply between the lines, but I think the book supports it. It's certain that abolition was a huge political issue of her day, and even if Austen was not writing directly about it, it must have been in the back of her mind as well as that of her readers.

I also think this film was scrupulously honest and brave in depicting the brutal reality of slavery. This is one of the most subversive of Austen's novels, and so it is seems to support this kind of modern critique fairly well. Perhaps it is "revisionist" to some, but to me it is just an honest look at the realities of life in Austen's day. Of course the filmmaker is inserting words into Fanny's mouth - elements of Jane Austen's own life, as well as a modern social critique that we would only hope Austen might sympathize with - but to me, it works in the context of this particular adaptation.

Sorry to ramble on for such a time. This is one of the most interesting adaptations of a novel I have ever seen.

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Also, just wanted to note something - on one of the drawings, Thom Jr. had labeled the scene of a slave woman being raped "the neighbors," suggesting that this was a scene he witnessed at a neighboring plantation.

Thus, perhaps we were meant to think that the only sin directly committed by sir Thomas was the affair with his mulatto slave, and the beatings and the rapes were peripheral to his estate, or just grim realities of society in generl. This sounds like I'm apologizing for him, but I'm actually trying to account for the fact that Fanny and even Thom seem to reconcile with the father's behavior by the end of the movie. I mean, how could Fanny look him in the eye and imagine that he had done all these things with his own hand? He was associated and complicit in all of them, so perhaps its a moot point, but it seems significant that one especially horrific drawing was labeled "the neighbors," as if to suggest that all the worst things happened on another estate.

While I do think that the affair with his slave was rape (as his social inferior, she was considered his property and likely had no choice in the matter) it may not have been considered quite as barbaric as the obviously violent rapings and beatings depicted in the other drawings. I'm not saying it wasn't vile and repulsive, but the picture book seems to make a distinction between the scenes showing "neighbors" violently assaulting and beating slaves, versus the one scene of the father standing over the slave woman in a clearly intimate situation.

I don't know...what do others think? Are we supposed to gather that Fanny just tried to forget all about it, having no other choice, or that she was able to forgive him because of that one speech he made at his son's death bed?

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"I see your point, and many others have made it on these boards; the Sir Thomas in the book was not accused of being a rapist or a cruel slaveowner. However, may I just suggest to you that anyone who owned slaves in the Carribean at this time must have been complicit in the kind of behaviors that you find so repellent? To me, the fact that you take offense with this depiction of a slaveowner suggests that you do not think that, on the whole, slaveowners were all that bad."

I don't think that's what people are saying. My problem is that the way the slavery issue was dealt with changed Austen's characters, which the movie seemed to have no problem doing in other areas as well. It makes Tom (the younger) seem troubled by demons of conscience, when in reality (figuratively speaking), he was just a spoiled brat who only changed his habits when his brush with death made him more serious and mindful of his own mortality.

"Perhaps we are to think that Sir Thomas's own conflicted nature leads him to be unduly harsh and repressive to his own family...yet somehow, his moral faults lead to a decay in his household, which leads to his son's depressive behavior and his daughter's desperate and brazen willingness to escape."

I think this reading seriously boils down Austen's point to something so simple it makes the characters less interesting. The children are all brats because Sir Thomas owns slaves? I don't think that was Austen's goal. I think, along with slavery, there was a anti-colonialism note she was striking, but also that the faults of the characters are more than the result of one very dark aspect of their lives, and even that involvement in the slave trade could be the result and symptom of those faults.

Austen was making some references to the slave trade in the novel, using the name Mansfield and having one conversation where Fanny attempts to converse with Sir Thomas on the slave trade. And there is a constant use of the language of tyranny when it comes to Sir Thomas and Fanny's father. But the movie used Austen's work cheaply. I don't think they were being "scrupulously honest and brave", I think they were exploiting a dramatic element they felt would shock the audience.

It is a subversive novel, but it is also subtle, something the movie definitely is not. It took Fanny from a quiet but observant woman to a mini-Austen, spouting quotes from different works, and different characters from the novel. They tried to make this novel a more 'interesting' period piece for a mainstream audience, and lost a great deal of the delicacy of the original.

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I thought it was interesting to see of Edmund's character his response to Fanny about the "abolitionists making inroads." She willingly agrees, "And that's a good thing, isn't it?" (even though she might not know just how dependent she is on slavery), but why is Edmund so reluctant to agree?

It seemed to me like his character wasn't really against slavery, despite all his other moral qualities. I mean his reluctance in agreeing with Fanny said a lot, I thought. So they all depended on the work of slaves---did it have to take that long for him to agree?

Any thoughts?

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My knee jerk reaction is that Edmund considered a political discussion about abolition socially inappropriate for a single young woman such as Fanny. Plus he may have considered Fanny too intellectually inferior to have opinions worth taking seriously. That was a topic to be discussed among men in the drawing room when the women weren't around.

I'd say the pause was more about how to steer the conversation to more appropriate topics like an upcoming social event. After he made the mistake of bringing it up.

Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not.

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I disagree. In the film, Edmund himself has been guiding Fanny's education by influencing her reading and discussing it. This includes her education about slavery and the abolitionist movement. This is mentioned later, after Sir Thomas's return from Antigua.

FANNY:
Correct me if I'm wrong, Sir Thomas, but I've read, sir, that if you were to bring one of the slaves back to England, there would be some argument as to whether or not they should be free here...

...If I'm not mistaken.

SIR THOMAS:
I must say you have changed considerably, my dear.

FANNY:
I have done some reading on the matter. Thomas Clarkson to be specific. Under Edmund's guidance.

EDMUND:
Fanny has a voracious mind. As hungry as a man's, father.


So I don't think that Edmund would feel that Fanny [is] too intellectually inferior to have opinions worth taking seriously. Or that it was a topic to be discussed among men in the drawing room when the women weren't around. :-)

IMO, the pause shows that Edmund is unsure because it is a very complex issue. He has thoughts and feelings about the matter which are at odds with each other. Morally, he opposes slavery. However, he also realizes that the entire estate of Mansfield and its inhabitants are dependent upon the income that is derived from Sir Thomas' interests in Antigua - interestes that include the use of slave labor.

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I just wanted to let you know that this exchange does not happen in the book. There is only one mention of slavery, which takes place after Sir Thomas returns from Antigua:

[Edmund] "Your uncle is disposed to be pleased with you in every respect; and I only wish you would talk to him more. You are one of those who are too silent in the evening circle."

[Fanny] "But I do talk to him more than I used. I am sure I do. Did not you hear me ask him about the slave–trade last night?"

[Edmund] "I did—and was in hopes the question would be followed up by others. It would have pleased your uncle to be inquired of farther" (ch. 21).



It seemed to me like his character wasn't really against slavery, despite all his other moral qualities. I mean his reluctance in agreeing with Fanny said a lot, I thought.

Indeed it does. IMO, this shows that the issue is very complex to the Edmund of the film. Morally, he's opposed to slavery. But his moral side is at odds with the part of him that knows Mansfield as his home. He hasn't come to grips with it yet, so he tells Fanny (in the film):

EDMUND:
Well we all live off the profits, Fanny...including you.

=============================================================================

I thought you might be interested to learn how the original script went in this scene. The conversation between Edmund and fanny is vastly different from the one that made the final cut of the film. I borrowed the scriptbook from my local library this week. Here is what it says:
FANNY:
(mock dramatic)
Oh yes, I am a wild beast. I'm sure Sir Thomas would agree.

EDMUND:
Don't concern yourself with his gravity, Fanny, he...has many things to preoccupy him.

FANNY:
Like?

EDMUND:
Like...he bought a shipload of men and a few women from Loanga, West Africa. They work our sugar plantation in Antigua. And they are unhappy at the moment, the abolitionists are making inroads and...

FANNY:
And they must miss their families, they must be furious. Wouldn't you be?

EDMUND:
Oh, yes, terribly. Their misery seems to require more than a few weighty sighs, but...at the same time Mansfield Park is entirely dependent on the profits of that operation...It's not, it's not...clear (Rozema, Patricia. Mansfield Park: A Screenplay, pp. 32, 33).


Notice how in this earlier version, Fanny doesn't comment on whether the abolitionists making inroads is a "good thing." She doesn't make an assessment about abolition. She is concerned about the slaves' feelings because they have been taken from their homes (something she has experienced herself). Fanny relates to this issue on a personal level rather than an intellectual level. Yet it's her intellectual reaction that is portrayed in the version of the script that appears in the final product.

Edmund's attitude in this version is rather cavalier, imo. I don't like it at all.

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Excellent and appreciated points (Devans and randommovies). I think I must have been exerting my 21st century thinking onto that particular scene.

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exerting my 21st century thinking onto that particular scene

Actually, Patricia Rozema (writer/director of this film) does that quite a bit. I thought you made a good point and I agreed with you. :-)

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[deleted]

Are you speaking of the Mansfield Case? "The power of a master over his servant is different in all countries, more or less limited or extensive, of the exercise of it therefore must always be regulated by the laws of the place where exercised."
http://www.umich.edu/~ece/student_projects/slavery/the_mansfield_case.htm

The Mansfield Case is from 1772. Many scholars of Austen's work believe that she purposefully named the estate Mansfield Park after this famous case.

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[deleted]

anarchyscat7
Ahhh i was wrong, 1807 saw the end of the slave trade by Parliament.
But that's interesting Randommovies2002 i had read a small reference to it but hadn't fully read about it.
Thanks for the link! :)
If she did write it for that purpose it was a clever move.


Most definitely, Jane Austen was a smart lady. It's kind of like she's the William Shakesphere of the 1800s. Ms. Austen has many layers in her writing that future generations peel back based on their own points of view.

Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not.

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Well said Devans00 and randommovies2002, you both have mentioned excellent points and I too was very impressed with the fact that they brought the theme of slvery so realistically into this movie...


Serve the Servants

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