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The Last Days of the Big Lie by Eric Hunt


The Last Days of the Big Lie by Eric Hunt
A documentary about a "documentary"

YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-48HQpgQRz0
Home Website: http://holocaustdenier.com/

Want to know who did 911? visit http://www.911missinglinks.com/

Have a good day.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

You guys are bigots.

"What I don't understand is how we're going to stay alive this winter."

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C'mon, where is your common sense? That is the LAMEST of all cop-outs. Whatever happened to freedom of thought and ideas? Anyone who objectively analyzes the Revisionism movement can obviously see the difference between fact and bigotry. Anyone who upholds an opposite perspective is automatically labelled a bigot. There is nothing bigoted in understanding that a colossal fraud & deception has taken place. And it is so obvious & glaring at times that it really isn't funny at all, but is actually worse than embarrassing for the perpertrators involved. It is like calling Woodward & Bernstein BIGOTS for investigating Watergate and blowing that whole issue wide open. Was FBI Associate Director Mark 'Deep Throat' Felt a BIGOT for exposing Nixon's involvement in Watergate? The principle of the Holohoax revisionism is the same. Why is it that it is against the LAW to even publicly or literally question the Holocaust in Germany, France, & England? This is positively ABSURD in any democratic society. People are imprisoned, fined, and have their professional careers RUINED just for questioning the authenticity of the Holocaust or to even have a different opinion on it. The TRUTH or FACTS about a historical event do not need LAWS to defend their authenticity. The very fact that there is a law which prohibits any citizen of the alleged "free, democratic Western world" to question the authenticity of the Holocaust or hold a different opinion regarding it, is WRONG and incites suspicion.

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"Holohoax", huh? Well, whatever. You're still a bigot.

"What I don't understand is how we're going to stay alive this winter."

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That is your unsubstantiated opinion. I certainly don't consider myself a bigot in anyway, nor do any of my friends and acquaintances. This is just the point I illustrated: A difference of opinion on the alleged "holocaust" and one is dismissed as a "bigot". Lamest of responses. Then explain why Elie Wiesel (the Pope of the Holocaust survivors) somehow forgot to mention any gas chambers in his memoir NIGHT? He claims to have been an Auschwitz survivor. And yet he mentions krematoria and claims that there were mass extermination in burning pits with thousands of people being thrown alive into these pits. Hence the name HOLOCAUST (holo=sacrifice+caust=fire). I would rather be an aware or enlightened "bigot", rather than a deluded, brainwashed "liberal" or a shameless, parasitic fraud.

P.S.--That would make an interesting name for a pub or tavern: The Enlightened Bigot.

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slazenger -

I am ?!? at how certain and convinced you want to be. It amazes me.

I assume you have the same opinions on massacres perpetrated against other races throughout history.

How about the Armenians? How about the Ukrainians? How about the Cambodians?

etc etc

I wonder what your take is on those events.

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[deleted]

So let's back up. If you don't want to take actual Holocaust survivors stories at face value, you have to accept that there were actual American, English and even German soldiers who have openly discussed what they found in the concentration camps. Say what you will but the Holocaust isn't some made up genocide, it actually happened. Maybe Speilberg lied in this documentary, but it doesn't prove the Holocaust didn't happen.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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"Holocaust" means "fire sacirfice". And YES there was a holocaust: the Dresden FIRE-BOMBING of German civilians (mostly women, children, and elderly) by merry old England. The Red Cross didn't see a damn thing regarding death camps or gas chambers during the war. The 174,000 or upto 374,000 total Ashkenazim who died at the LABOUR CAMPS were due to the cutting off of food and medical supplies by the BOMBING OF THE ALLIED TROOPS. Those deaths were mainly due to typhus and famine. Bull**it allied war propaganda. They did the same thing when President Andrew Jackson caused the 'Trail Of Tears' near-genocide of the Cherokee nation. To quote some YT entries on the subject matter:

"There were as many as 45,000,000 American Indians that were killed from 1650 to 1850 and about 40,000,000 blacks died enroute from Africa to America over 200 yrs. Yet, not a single Holocaust museum for them, America had 262 Holocaust museums as of 2007. The building of them continues. Most are funded with American tax dollars.

The Zionist lobby pulled a 6,000,000 dying Jew scam in 1919, in NYC. Read - The First Holocaust, by Don Heddesheimer. The scam went on for 9 years, until the Catholic bishops in New York figured it out. The scam was shut down, but surfaced again in 1942. 1942? Yes, an article in the readers digest issue in 1942 talked about 6,000,000 dying Jewish victims. That was 3 yrs before the war ended. That is proof this is a scam.

Auschwitz had 12 kitchens, a theatre, chapel, hospital, library, classrooms, general store, brothel, swimming pool, sauna, soceer field and post office. There were also several orchestras and weekly plays. Auschwitz was hardly a prison. 3000 babies were born in Auschwitz. Weddings were performed and there was even a courthouse and a prison. 650 detainess were released from Auschwitz! Funny, not one of them wrote a book on gas chambers. Lie of the century."

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There are more than enough soldiers and non-Jews who saw the difference between labor camps and concentration camps. Americans and British who will testify that they saw it. However, you didn't see it and you "know" people who can argue against it so you don't believe it happened.

THEREFORE - by your own logic

How do you know there was Armenian genocide at the hands of the Turks. There is a WHOLE country of Turkey that says it didn't happen, so by your own logic - it didn't happen.

There is the whole country of England who will argue that Churchill didn't starve anyone in India and we know the Indians were just being vindictive about the British treatment of them so - It didn't happen (by your logic)

There are MANY MANY scholars who will argue that the 66 million under communism is a flat out fabrication. So it MUST be true what they say - they are "scholars" after all. Who are you to say they are wrong?

How the heck do you know that Soviets raped German women - did you see it? How many of those German women were just mad at the Soviets and making it up? Or maybe didn't want their husbands to know what they were doing when they weren't home.

Sorry but the Spanish Inquistion was waaaaaay too long ago and the records way too inaccurate for you to categorically state that it happened. We don't even have photos, just paintings that were definitely painted by people who weren't even there when it happened.

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Its funny that you bring up The English fire bombing Germany, but not the Germans bombing England...

In fact, you have nothing that was perpetrated by Germans.

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Let's face it, France and England were far more militaristic than Germany. Their political leaders were always colonializing bastards. Germany did their share of militaristic annexations but were NEVER the cutthroats that France and England were. Any REAL student of history knows this. Of the three European nations, the Germans were by far the most civilized. And I don't have a SINGLE GERMAN gene in my system. You might try watching the Carlos Whitlock Porter videos uploaded on YouTube...Especially the interview he granted Ernst Zundel. Also watch the YouTube videos of Dr. Fred Toben, David Cole (Jewish), Fred Leuchter, Prof. Roger Dommergue (Jewish), Germar Rudolf, Ditlieb Felderer, Arthur Butz, Richard Harwood, and Ernst Zundel. It might clue you in on the ever-increasing, growing "Holocaust"-revisionist movement. It is NOT a denial, it is a fact-finding investigation of mid-20th Century history.

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Of which they've found no solid evidence as of yet. When they do, I'll consider it.

But what you posted was completely besides the point. Why post all that and leave out Germany's attacks on English civilians, Japan's mass rape in China, and so many other? It seems like you wanted to concentrate solely on the US, England, and Russia.

By the way, something to consider about why the Red Cross said nothing about any "death camps" in Germany. Its a pretty well known fact that the Red Cross is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world.

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[copy-pasted]

Tuesday, November 09, 2010
Red Cross founder was a Zionist (WSJ)
From Tomas Sandell in the Wall Street Journal:

Last week marked the 100th anniversary of the death of Henri Dunant—the Red Cross founder who brought humanitarian laws to the battlefield. It is doubtful, though, whether the world's first Nobel Peace prize recipient would today still feel at home in his organization, or in similar human-rights bodies for that matter.

It's not just Dunant's Christian faith, which played an instrumental part in his humanitarian work, that would be at odds with today's post-Christian Red Cross officials. In the same small reformed church that commemorated his death last week, Dunant first learned about social responsibility as well as spiritual discipline.

But what would make Dunant really suspect in the eyes of modern human-rights activists is the fact that he was a Zionist. Already in 1867, almost 30 years before Theodor Herzl published "Der Judenstaat," his vision of a Jewish state, Dunant backed Jewish immigration to their ancestral homeland in Palestine. Dunant was one of only a few gentiles to attend the first Zionist congress in Basel in 1897. As was the case with other past Christian social reformers, like William Wilberforce 100 years before him and Martin Luther King 100 years after him, Dunant's support for the revival of the Jewish state went hand in hand with his work for other social causes.

[end copy-past]

------------------------------------------------------

...So you see, it shouldn't surprise anyone if the Red Cross is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world.

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Here is an interesting copy-paste:

March 18, 2011

Categories:
White House
.
Helen Thomas to Playboy: Jews 'own the White House'

Helen Thomas is not sorry, nor were the comments that ended her career accidental.

“I knew exactly what I was doing – I was going for broke,” she told Playboy in the magazine’s April interview. “I had reached the point of no return. You finally get fed up … I finally wanted to speak the truth.”

Thomas, of course, left her perch as the dean of the White House press corps last year after telling a rabbi and blogger that Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine” and “go home” to “Poland, Germany and America and everywhere else.” Her family is Lebanese and she grew up in the Detroit area, home to one of the country’s densest populations of Arab Americans.

She spoke to Playboy at length about the situation in Palestine, her feelings on American support of Israel, and her take on Jews.

But her most controversial comments echoed ones she’s made before about the influence of Jews in American life, which have contributed to her name being stripped from journalism awards.

"[The Jews are] using their power, and they have power in every direction,” she told Playboy. “Power over the White House, power over Congress … Everybody is in the pocket of the Israeli lobbies, which are funded by wealthy supporters, including those from Hollywood. Same thing with the financial markets. There's total control … It isn't the 2 percent. It's real power when you own the White House, when you own these other places in terms of your political persuasion. Of course they have power. [To the interviewer] You don't deny that. You're Jewish, aren't you?"

She also had some controversial views about memorializing the Holocaust.

"There's nothing wrong with remembering it, but why do we have to constantly remember?" she said. "We're not at fault. I mean, if they're going to put a Holocaust museum in every city in Germany, that's fine with me. But we didn't do this to the Jews. Why do we have to keep paying the price and why do they keep oppressing the Palestinians? Do the Jews ever look at themselves? Why are they always right? Because they have been oppressed throughout history, I know. And they have this persecution. That's true, but they shouldn't use that to dominate."

[end of copy-paste]

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So, you just ignored everything else I said... just to take a stab at Jews? I was trying to keep this a serious, rational, and intelligent conversation. I am now however, done.

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"Jews"??? What's a "Jew"??? It is a medieval European derogatory abbreviation that has always been offensive. Just like the offensive epithets "Nip" or "Jap" for the Japanese people. Also, the word JEW literally means LICE in the languages of Hindi and Urdu, when combined, spoken by about a HALF-BILLION people on this planet. There has NEVER been, nor EVER will be a "JEWISH" race. It is one of the great fallacies of the social sciences. Judaism is a respectable organized monotheist religion in its mainstream practice. However, it has had a long history of breakaway sects which branched out into cults. Some of them collectively put together the TALMUD. The Judaic religion has been taken over by an ethnic majority who were CONVERTS: the Ashkenazim. This very appellation was the name of the SCYTHIANS (i.e. SKUZA or ARCHERS), whom the ancient Assyrians and Persians identified as ASHKUZAIN and ASHKUZ. The SCYTHIANS (ASHKENAZIM) later came to be known as KHAZARS by neighbouring lands. SCYTHIA/KHAZARIA was located in what is Southern Russia (just above Armenia & Georgia). The KHAZARS were divided into two groups: the Ak-Khazar (White Khazars) and Kara-Khazar (Black Khazar); in reference to the fair-complected European looking Northern Khazars and the swarthy Southern Khazars. This very similar dichotomy is present not only among the Greeks and the Italians, but ALL Eastern Europeans. To the Greeks, the Ashkenazim were called Ascania. The Ascania, according to Eurasian folklore were the REAL descendants of the Trojans of Troas Province, Anatolia(Turkey). The name ASCANIA was derived from anyone or all three Trojan heroes: Ascanias, son of King Priam of Troy; a second Ascanias who was blood-relation to King Priam; a third Ascanias who was a Trojan hero as well. All three were superb ARCHERS (i.e. SKUZA or SCYTHIAN). After all, Paris the Trojan prince and brother of Ascanias, son of King Priam, slew the mighty Achilles with an arrow. In the Tanakh(Hebrew-language Old Testament), there is also an ASKENAZ who was the son of Gomer, son of Japheth (the third son of Noah after Ham, father of the Hamites, and Shem, father of the Shemites or Semites). Either way, ASHKENAZIM "Jews" are NOT SHEMITE or SEMITIC. Not even according to the Tanakh or Old Testament. The Ashkenazim/Khazars had a DIASPORA to Eastern Europe after two back-to-back catastrophes: First, the Christian Kievan Rus launched a war of attrition which reduced the Khazarian Empire down to its native borders in Southern Russia; Second, the Mongol invasion of Central Asia and Eurasia made the Scythians(Ashkenazim)/Khazars abandon their homeland and flee to Eastern Europe to avoid the horrific fate suffered by their neighbouring lands. However, centuries BEFORE their diaspora(dispersion), the once pagan Scythians(Ashkenazim) converted EN MASSE in year 740 A.D. to Judaism, when their king Bulan adopted Judaism as the state religion. Judaism of the Near East was NOT an Ethnic Religion, but a PROSELYTIZING one. All this was researched and reconfirmed by Tel Aviv history professor Dr. Shlomo Sand at length. Consequently, the so-called "Jews" are NO MORE descended from Moses, Aaron, and the Israelites than some American & West African blacks were from the ancient Egyptians & Carthaginians, or Pakistanis & East Indian Muslims were from Arabs, Turks, and Afghans; the Pakistanis & East Indian Muslims were descended from CONVERTS to Islam while their forefathers were once BRAHMAN and BUDDHISTS. So, once again, who and what are the so-called "JEWS"???
...Alleged descendants of the inhabitants of the province of Judea?
...Alleged descendants of the mythical Kingdom of Judah (which NO archaeologists have found ANY TRACE of to this day).
...Alleged descendants of Yahudah, son of Jacob Israel, translated as Judahites??

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Oh dear, yet another neo-Nazi to lighten the mood. "Anti-German"? "How dare you"? Yeah, whatever. Get a life.

"What I don't understand is how we're going to stay alive this winter."

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I have German in my family. My great grand parents were German citizens that moved to America. How dare you act like someone who acknowledges the existance of the Holocaust in an "anti-German bigot". I guess we should just pretend that everyone who saw what happened in the concentration camps have just lied about it for 60+ years? This must be the biggest conspiracy yet? Get a life.

You know what? Why don't you just continue spouting your ignorant anti-Semetic hatred on this board. Why not all over this site or the internet. Then everyone can see what an ignorant assclown you are. Anyone who denies the Holocaust happend is a retard. There I said it. Neo-Nazi skin heads like yourself need to realize that no rational person is interested in your hate-mongoring bull$hit.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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Typical reaction of a brainwashed d-i-p-s-t-i-c-k. Hold a different view on the alleged "Holocaust" and one is labelled a Neo-Nazi skinhead. LOL

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Well what's your different view? There's nothing you can say that can really disprove that it happend. It did happen. This may even be more pathetic than the people who claim the moon landing didn't happen or that 9/11 was an inside job.

Unless your differing view has any merit, I don't see how anyone could take it seriously. I don't know the specifics of The Last Days being a hoax. But I do that regardless the holocaust did happen. Now unless you can debunk the overwhelming amount of evidence that supports it (including former Nazi's that have talked about it) I don't have anything else to say to you.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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WTF are you talking about? Rudolf Hoss' (not Hess) confession was brought about by threats to his family and torture. Read the entire Nuremberg transcripts and you will find holes bigger than swiss cheese. The trials were kangaroo courts. Just look at the Auschwitz plaque which went from 4 million killed to 1.5 million killed to 750,000 killed. From 22 labour camps that were alleged "death camps" with gas chambers, pro-Holocaust historians have now brought that number down to only the SIX camps in Poland. Six camps to exterminate the alleged 6 million Ashkenazim??? Common sense and logic must prevail. Auschwitz survivor Paul Rassinier was the FATHER of Holocaust Revisionism. He was an Auschwitz prisoner from 1943-45. READ HIS MEMOIRS. He was a French resistance fighter caught by the Gestapo! How did the International Red Cross MISS all those alleged "gas chambers" in their multiple visits to the Nazi labour camps?? Holocaust high priest Elie Wiesel himself NEVER ONCE mentioned gas chambers in his most famous Auschwitz memoir "Night". And neither did Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle in ALL OF THEIR COLLECTIVE World War II memoirs & autobiographies. Enough said.

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[deleted]

"How did the International Red Cross Miss all thos alleged "gas chambers" in their multiple visits"

Same way that visitors to the USSR missed all the atrocities being commited there.

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"How did the International Red Cross Miss all thos alleged "gas chambers" in their multiple visits"

Same way that visitors to the USSR missed all the atrocities being commited there.

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Keep it up. If you keep telling yourself that it didn't happen it might come true.

But I have a question: Is it easy being a giant douche?

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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Quote: "Is it easy being a giant douche?"

Answer: Is that a rhetorical question? That question should be posed to Steven Spielberg and Irene Zisblatt (who is in dire need of several douches)...

Question: Is it easy being a dumb-downed, brainwashed, deluded douche-bag?

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You still haven't provided any evidence to support that your claims are true. Forget this documentary. I couldn't care less if it real or fake. You're insinuating that the Holocaust itself is a hoax. There's so much overwhelming evidence that says it did happen and all you can give me is "The Nazis were forced to testify because of threats to their families", an unsubstantiated claim.

Face it, there's pictures and video footage of the mass graves found at the concentration camps. And if that wasn't enough, you can get DNA evidence from the concentration camps that still exist.

What do these pictures show:
http://www.thefuturejew.com/image/belsen01.jpg
http://www.glogster.com/media/5/28/35/27/28352750.jpg
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_limzfdI59Y1qct7n1o1_400.jpg

You might also find these articles intersting. They basically sum up what you are.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~jamie/the-hoax.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/07/holocaust-revisioni sm-and-forgeries.html

I bet it's really easy to try and get everyone to look at some of the other genocides that have happend over the years and try and pretend like they somehow discredit the Holocaust in some way. Whatever it is you're trying to prove, it's not gonna work. Nothing that you have said or can say will prove that the Holocaust didn't happen. You have absolutely no evidence on your side and unless you can give me evidence that can prove those pictures of the thousands of dead bodies were somehow faked (way back in the 1940's mind you) you really have no argument.

Question: Is it easy being a dumb-downed, brainwashed, deluded douche-bag?

Dumb-downed? Brainwahed? Interesting choice of words from someone who obviously doesn't have a clue what they're talking about, can't provide evidence and has obviously been raised or made to think that something that actually happend, didn't happen. Sounds like you're the one brainwashed here.




That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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[deleted]

You're basing your argument on one documentary being faked. I can't say either way if it's faked. But I can say that history proves the Holocaust happened. This one documentary doesn't prove your point.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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--Once again, the only thing during World War II that LITERALLY matches the linguistic appellation HOLOCAUST is the bombing of Dresden, Germany by the British (i.e. "Bomber" Arthur Harris & Co, et al).

--There were no 6 million Ashkenazim intentionally exterminated in any one of the 22 or so Nazi-run labour camps.

--There were no mass gassings.

--There were no burning alive of 6 million Ashkenazim (as insinuated by Elie Wiesel & a few others) which gave rise to the appellation HOLOCAUST.

--The TRUTH is that the Holocaust is the hoax of the 20th Century.

--And finally, since you stated you have some German ancestry, here is a German philosopher's quote on the TRUTH:

"EVERY TRUTH PASSES THROUGH THREE STAGES BEFORE IT IS RECOGNIZED:
IN THE FIRST STAGE, IT IS RIDICULED;
IN THE SECOND STAGE, IT IS OPPRESSED;
IN THE THIRD STAGE, IT IS REGARDED AS SELF-EVIDENT"

--ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER

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Just words. You still have no evidence to back any of your claims up. Those pictures I provided completely contradict your statements, as well as DNA evidence that remains inside of the former concentration camps. Sorry, you lose.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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[deleted]

I didn't ignore your response. It was just too stupid to take seriously.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/skeptic-magazine/skeptic-12.h tml
http://stevenlehrer.com/Hitler_threat.htm
You should pay special attention to that essay, because it has actual quotes from Hitler.

Not to mention is been proven that Zyklon B residue is still prominent within the walls of the alleged gas chambers.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Lethal_gas_crystal_ can_%26_documnets.jpg
That is a picture of a canister of Zyklon B along with a signed orders for the gas describing it as "materials for Jewish resettlement". It's on display at the Aushwitz museam.

Basically you have to be nuts not to believe it.

You claim "evidence" but like I said, who is telling us what this "evidence" is, The Last Days is a microcosm of the greater hoax.

Yes, because everything we are told is a lie. Just like 9/11 and the moon landing right? Not everything is a conspiracy dude. Hell, even Germany acknowledges that the Holocaust happend to this day. You so called "revisionists" deny these things happened and say the pictures are of those who died of diesease. Strange that all those bodies were of Jewish people who were being held in mass prison camps during the time.
The bodies do NOT prove that six million jews were killed in gas chambers. They do prove that tens of thousands of Jews died of disease and starvation at the end of the hell that was World War II. Thanks in MOST PART to the ALLIES THEMSELVES bombing supply lines and most of Europe.

The problem with that argument is this: Why wasn't there a greater mix of races amongst those that died? Why were they all Jewish (with some Gypsies and and other "inferior" races)? Why weren't there other citizens amongst the dead?

Your argument sucks.



That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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[deleted]

But why were the Jewish in those camps anyway? The Jews didn't do anything to start the war.

And what facts did you give me about those bodies? You didn't give me any facts. You merely presented another possibility that is only accepted by a minority of people.

And signed documents stating the use of Zyklon B is proof. You just deny it because somewhere in your warped mind you don't want to see the facts. They wouldn't be in the museam if they were fake. Any historian or scientist could examine the document to see if it was legit or not. I don't see why this is so hard for you to grasp.

Why defend the Nazi's? Germany doesn't. And even if you don't want to accept the Holocaust, you sure as hell can'g deny that they were bad people. Hitler was obviously a crazy person along with all the other high ranking members of his party.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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mwhite182:


Yes, because everything we are told is a lie. Just like 9/11 and the moon landing right? Not everything is a conspiracy dude. Hell, even Germany acknowledges that the Holocaust happend to this day. You so called "revisionists" deny these things happened and say the pictures are of those who died of diesease. Strange that all those bodies were of Jewish people who were being held in mass prison camps during the time.


Actually, if you do the research, 9/11 has been proven to be a fraud, I mean the official version of it. And the moon landing has too many holes and impossibilities that make it being a hoax a very high probability.

This would take hours to get into. But might I suggest you see these films on 9/11? They are all available on YouTube for free and are irrefutable.

Zero: An Investigation into 9/11
9/11 Blueprint for Truth
9/11 Explosive Evidence: Experts Speak Out

There are now 1500 professional credible architects and engineers that say that the government's theory that fire alone caused three steel skyscrapers to fall at free fall speed and pulverize to dust, is 100 percent impossible. It's a no brainer. Even children can see that it's BS. How sad that most American adults don't see that.

http://www.ae911truth.org
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com

The cell phone calls from airlines on 9/11 was also impossible. Next time you fly on an airline, turn on your cell phone during flight and you will see that it has no signal. Anyone can test this. It's another smoking gun that debunks the official 9/11 story.

In the alternative research community, there is no debate about the official story of 9/11 being a fraud. No one defends it anymore. The only question is how the perpetrators did it. That is what is being debated now.

As to the moon landing, see this site that has a FAQ that answers your questions.

http://www.moonfaker.com

This genius on YouTube has produced over 300 videos proving that the moon landing was a hoax. Here is his channel.

http://www.youtube.com/whitejarrah

I've researched this for years and can tell you that the official government conspiracy theory of 9/11 is definitely a fraud and lie, without a doubt. The moon landing can't be proven one way or another, but for a hundred reasons, the probability of it being a hoax is very high.

Do you really think that little LEM, which was the size of two cars, had enough fuel to travel 240,000 miles to the moon and all the way back? It would take a humungus rocket to carry that much fuel. A 747 doesn't even have a fraction of the fuel required.

Today, NASA cannot even safely send a man 1000 miles above Earth orbit. So it makes no sense that they were able to send men 240,000 miles to the moon and back six times with no casualties.


http://www.happierabroad.com - The Overseas Solution for Single Men

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Oh my goodness - you are just too cute for words; I bet you are fun to have at a party just for the entertainment value

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This is not a question about winning or losing. It is a question about FACTS and the TRUTH. Since you didn't quite understand this concept, here it is again:

"EVERY TRUTH PASSES THROUGH THREE STAGES BEFORE IT IS RECOGNIZED:
IN THE FIRST STAGE, IT IS RIDICULED;
IN THE SECOND STAGE, IT IS OPPRESSED;
IN THE THIRD STAGE, IT IS REGARDED AS SELF-EVIDENT"

--ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER



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I have a question for the holocaust deniers (or should i say revisionists?). Okay, I disagree with you, but I do think you have a right to express your views, and I think freedom of speech is more important. Despite having relatives who died in the Holocaust, I still find the topic of holocaust revisionism very interesting, although I don't agree with it. So I don't want to start any internet fights.

My question is: Are most or all holocaust revisionists anti-Semitic? When I hear them speak or read what they write they start off with evidence they believe supports their claims, but eventually it comes down to some sort of hatred towards the Jewish race/religion whatever. Are there any revisionists who believe the Holocaust did not occur purely on historical reasoning and not because they dislike Jews to some extent?

And do holocaust revisionists have any viewpoints on the violence against gypsies, Poles, homosexuals, Jehova's Witnesses, political opponents by the Nazi's? Do they believe that only Jewish atrocities are being exaggerated?

Thankyou very much for any answers you can give. I am genuinely interested!

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Finally, an intelligent responder...First of all, the very expression Anti-Semitism is INCORRECT. Ashkenazi Judeans are NOT SEMITIC. So the expression is null and void. If you read my earlier post, there is enough basic info on who and what constitutes a "Jew".

Also, you must remember, no Holohoax Revisionist DENIES that Ashkenazim, Gypsies, and Poles were put in LABOUR CAMPS. The Gypsies have a long history of being pariahs in European society and were persecuted by CHRISTIAN EUROPEANS. The National Socialists treated them FAR better than Christian Europe EVER had. This is historical fact. And anyone who has social contacts with Gypsies, knows that they are in general not an easy people to co-exist or deal with. Do your research.

The question of "Jews" comes up because it is the so-called "Jews" who keep PUSHING and SHOVING the MISNOMERED "Holocaust" down the entire world's throats.

I myself personally have a lot of Ashkenazim as my intellectual heroes: Stormin' Norman Finkelstein; David Cole; Shlomo Sand; Noam Chomsky; Rabbi David Yisroel Weiss; Roger Dommergue; Joseph Ginsberg; Franz Boas; Franz Kafka; Benjamin Freedman; etc...NO. I am no "Jew-hater".

David Cole and Norman Finkelstein are among the most socially RELEVANT figures of modern times. They too have been branded the misnomered label of "ANTI-SEMITE". Rabbi Weiss and his fellow Rabbis were PHYSICALLY ATTACKED by Zionists and branded "ANTI-SEMITIC". Now explain how do RABBIS get labelled "Anti-Semitic"??

There are videos uploaded on YouTube that CLEARLY caught on camera the vicious attacks upon some Rabbis INSIDE THE WALLS of their synagogues in ISRAEL by Zionist police!! Explain that?? Who and what is "Anti-Semitic"??

According to the Tanakh(Old Testament), Ashkenazim Judeans are NOT SEMITIC. They are NOT descended from Shem, son of Noah. Biblical chronology has Ashkenazi "Jews" descended from ASHKENAZ, son of Gomer, son of Japheth. Japheth was the 3rd son of Noah and younger brother of Ham and Shem. There is even a Biblical prophetic verse which states that the "SONS OF JAPHETH WILL DWELL IN THE TENTS OF SHEM..." Japheth is the traditional forefather/progenitor of ALL Ashkenazim "Jews". This is, of course, from a theological perspective. For those of us who are agnostic, historical evidence clearly shows that Ashkenazis are descended from Scythians/Khazars.

Also, look at our Near Eastern policies. Look at our lobby...They are DUAL CITIZENS (both Israeli-U.S.). To whom are they truly loyal?? Here is a list of members of OUR American government that are DUAL U.S./ISRAELI CITIZENS:

Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
White House Political Director – Ken Melman
National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
White House Speechwriter – David Frum
White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis

-------------------------------------

Do you wonder why some of us Americans are just a little concerned at this...Espeically since we are paying the bills with our blood and livelihood for the unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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The entire basis of your post and beliefs are lies.

The Bible that the Christians follow and the Tanakh which the Jews follow both state that Shem is the father of the Jews NOT Japeth. Just read the book of Genesis In fact, Japeth is believed to be the father of the Germans and Russians.

Makes your Biblical statement of the Tents of Japeth much more interesting now doesn't it.

Additionally,

the sign of a true "anti-semitic" is someone who can tell you the name of every Jewish government official but can not tell you how many ethnic Germans were in office in 1917 and 1940.

And what does Afghanistan and Iraq have to do with Israel I thought it was about oil. Or are those darn Zionist hoping to rid the world of the 1 billion Muslims, one country at a time. If you argued about the involvement in Syria and Lybia you would actually make more sense.

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You must be THE DUMBEST responder yet. Shem is the father of "Jews"?? ROFL
Listen genius, here are some copy-pasted articles you should consider:

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The Origins of Ashkenaz

Published July 01, 2008, issue of July 11, 2008.

Sol Schindler of Bethesda, Md., writes:

“Paul Kriwaczek tells us in his book ‘In Search of Zarathustra: Across Iran and Central Asia To Find the World’s First Prophet’ that the Hebrew word ashkenazi originally meant a Scythian. I myself always thought it meant a German. Did ancient Hebrew speakers use one term to describe all the barbarians beyond the Danube, or did they actually distinguish between Goths and Scythians?”

The place name Ashkenaz occurs three times in the Bible: In Genesis 10:3, in I Chronicles 1:6 and in Jeremiah 51:27. The first three verses of the 10th chapter of Genesis read:

“Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Yefet: and unto them were sons born after the Flood. The sons of Yefet: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Yavan, and Tuval, and Meshech, and Tiras. And the sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz and Rifat and Togarmah.”

The Bible represents Shem, Ham and Yefet as the ancestors of the three great ethnic-and-linguistic families of man known to the ancient Hebrews: the Semitic, the Hamitic or African, and the Indo-European. Yefet, the supposed progenitor of the Indo-Europeans, may derive, modern scholars believe, from the figure of Iapetos, the son of Uranus and father of Prometheus in Greek mythology. Of his seven sons, Gomer can be identified with the inhabitants of Asia Minor known to the ancient Assyrians as the Gimmiraya and to the Greeks as the Kymroi or Cimmerians; Madai with the Medes, a people akin to the Persians who lived in what is today western Iran; Yavan with the Ionians or Greeks. Magog, Tuval, Meshech and Tiras can be identified with, respectively, the seventh-century BCE King Gyges of Lydia in southwest Turkey and with two peoples known to the Assyrians as the Tabal and the Musku, and to the Greeks as the Tibaroi and the Moschoi, living along the southern shore of the Black Sea, and as the Tyrsenoi, as the ancient Greeks called the Etruscans.

As for Ashkenaz, it is almost certainly the Hebrew name of the land of the people known to the Assyrians as the Ishkuza and to the Greeks as the Skythoi or Scythians. The Scythians were a powerful confederation of Indo-European tribes who spoke a language of the Iranian family; their original home was the steppe-lands north of the Black Sea, in what today would be southern Ukraine, from where, in the mid-first millennium BCE, their armies spread southwestward into western Asia Minor and southeastward into the Assyrian and Babylonian empires. Jeremiah, vengefully predicting the downfall of the Babylonians in the early sixth-century BCE, after their destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, proclaims: “Blow the trumpet among the nations, prepare the nations against her [Babylon], call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni [both in Armenia], and Ashkenaz.”

As we have seen, the book of Genesis connects the Scythians, or descendants of Ashkenaz, with the Cimmerians, or descendants of Gomer, and historically indeed, the two peoples were closely related, since they were originally neighbors north of the Black Sea, from where the stronger Scythians pushed the Cimmerians further south. A rather fanciful account of the wars between them can be found in Herodotus.

By talmudic times, however, both the Scythians and the Cimmerians had disappeared from the world, swallowed up by other nations. Casting about for the location of Gomer, the rabbis of the talmudic period took it on the basis of phonetic resemblance to be Germania, as the Romans referred to the Teutonic areas west of the Rhine whose tribes they were constantly battling. “Gomer is Germamya [sic],” says the tractate of Yoma, while the tractate of Megillah tells us: “There are three hundred crown wearers [that is, petty kings] in Germamya and three-hundred-sixty-five lords in Rome, and every day they go forth and kill one another because they are too busy fighting to have time to unite under a single king.”

This is no doubt the reason that Ashkenaz, the biblical son of Gomer, came to be associated with Germany, too. This association may have been strengthened further by the name Scandza, as Scandinavia, the Germanic-speaking north of Europe, was often referred to in medieval times. By the middle ages, we find Ashkenaz being widely used for Germany in Jewish sources (when the 11th-century Rashi, for example, translates a Hebrew word into German in his commentaries, he gives it to us in “the language of Ashkenaz”), and before long it became the standard term.

Originally, therefore, an ashkenazi in Hebrew was a Jewish inhabitant of Germany. (It doesn’t appear in any Jewish source in the sense of Scythian.) Yet as Jews migrated eastward and northward to Slavic lands from German ones, taking with them “the language of Ashkenaz” (which gradually turned into Eastern European Yiddish), “Ashkenazi” came to denote any Yiddish-speaking Jew, and eventually — as it does today — any descendant of Yiddish-speaking Jews. Ashkenaz, on the other hand, continued to refer in Hebrew to Germany alone, until it was replaced in the 20th century by germanya so as to avoid the ambiguity of ashkenazim meaning both non-Jewish Germans and Jewish speakers of Yiddish. As for germamya, it is gone from the world, along with the Cimmerians and Scythians.

http://www.forward.com/articles/13681/

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[copy-paste]

Abraham Wasn't A Jew
by Wayne Blank

Abraham is one of the best-known people of the Bible. He's a key figure in the history of both the Jewish and Arab people. He was the great-grandfather of Judah, whose descendants became known as the Jews, and he was also the father of Ishmael, from whom many of the Arab people are descended. Abraham was a Hebrew, and although the ancestor of both, Abraham himself was neither Jew nor Arab. From the Scriptural genealogical record comes some of the most well-known terms relating to Israelite people: Semite and Semitic originate from Noah's son Shem, and Hebrew is derived from Eber, the ancestor of Abraham. According to Bible History:

"The Sons Of Noah: Shem, Ham and Japheth...The sons of Shem: Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud and Aram. The sons of Aram: Uz, Hul, Gether and Meshech. Arphaxad was the father of Shelah, and Shelah the father of Eber. Two sons were born to Eber: One was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan. Joktan was the father of Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, Obal, Abimael, Sheba, Ophir, Havilah and Jobab. All these were sons of Joktan. Shem, Arphaxad, Shelah, Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah and Abram (that is, Abraham). The sons of Abraham: Isaac and Ishmael." (1 Chronicles 1:4,17-28)

From two other people come two other very well-known identities: Israelites are the descendants of Isaac's son Jacob, who God renamed Israel, and from Jacob's son Judah come the terms Jew and Jewish.

So how do all of these designations relate to the people involved?

The term Shemite is derived from Noah's son Shem.

The term Hebrew is derived from Shem's descendant Eber. Eber was a Shemite, and the first Hebrew, but not an Israelite or a Jew because neither existed yet.

Abraham was Eber's descendant. Abraham was a Shemite and a Hebrew, but not an Israelite or a Jew because neither existed yet.

Isaac was Abraham's son. Isaac was a Shemite and a Hebrew, but not an Israelite or a Jew because neither existed yet.

Jacob, who God renamed Israel, was Isaac's son. Jacob was a Shemite and a Hebrew, but not a Jew because Jews originated with his son Judah. The first Israelites were the children of Jacob.

Judah was one of Jacob's twelve sons (see Children of Jacob and The Tribes Of Israel). Judah was a Shemite, a Hebrew, and an Israelite. The first Jews were the children of Judah. The descendants of the other eleven of Jacob's sons were not Jews, but were themselves named accordingly e.g. from Levi came the Levites, from Benjamin came the Benjamites and so on.

A vitally important fact in understanding Bible Prophecy is that while all Jews are Israelites, not all Israelites are Jews. All are Hebrews, but only the descendants of Judah are Jews. Many prophecies apply specifically to the Jewish people of today, while other prophecies apply specifically to the descendants of the other so-called "lost" tribes of Israel (see Can You Spot The Mistake?)

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[copy-paste]

Are the Ashkenazi Jews Fulfilling Bible Prophecy?

April 18, 2011 by Omasiali

GENESIS 9:27

God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Many people do not know it, but this is the first prophecy telling us that the Jews will live in the land of Israel. Not as Israelites but as the sons of Japheth or Gentiles. Genesis 9:27 is a prophecy given by Noah to his sons, in this prophecy he pronounces a curse upon his grandson Canaan.

But Notice what he says about his other two sons Japheth and Shem, he says God shall enlarge Japheth and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem. Shem’s tents can be called his home, The people in that day lived in tents. This prophecy is telling us Japheth’s descendants (sons) shall dwell in the house of Shem. The house of Shem is the land of Israel, because this is where Shem’s descendants lived. [Even though they (Japheth) would be living in their (Shem’s) tents (house), the tents or property STILL belong to the original owners.]

The sons of Japheth (Gentiles) shall live in the land of Israel. But not only do they live in the tents of Shem, the land of Israel, they are living like Shem’s descendants. Those sons of Japheth are the Jewish people, the Jews are Gentiles. They are not Israelites [Hebrews]. Gentiles are descendants of Noah’s son Japheth. The European Jews (who control Israel) are called the Ashkenazi Jews, this shows us they are one of the sons of Japheth.

Noah’s prophecy reveals God knew the Israelites would sin and lose possession of the Promised Land. However, unlike the Canaanite, Israel’s loss would not be a complete forfeiture because God promised the land to Abraham and his seed forever. Their loss would be a temporary occupation of the land by the descendants of Japheth. Dwelling in the tents of Shem has dual significance. Not only does it imply the occupation of the land given to Shem, but also implies Japheth would cloak himself with Shem’s covering (tent) and appear to be Shem.

The original Hebrew working of this verse magnifies this important detail. In the King James Version the verse reads,

GENESIS 9:27

God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

The word translated here as ENLARGE is the Hebrew word PATHAH {Paw-thaw}. Pathah is used 28 times in the bible. In every instance, the word conveys the sense of someone enticing or being enticed, deceiving or being deceived. Obviously enlarge doesn’t fit as a meaning for the word Pathah. Even though Strong’s Concordance and dictionary lists enlarge as a possible meaning for this Hebrew word, we must realize that Strong’s dictionary only lists how the word has been translated in the King James Version.

A more accurate translation of Pathah may be ascertained by examining how the word was used throughout the Bible. Furthermore, in other verses where the English word enlarge is used correctly, it is translated from the Hebrew word rachab {raw-khab} or rabah {raw-baw}.

If Moses intended to convey the sense of Japheth being enlarged he would have used rachab or rabah. Since Moses used Pathah, we know that he intended to convey the sense of Japheth being either deceived or enticed. The reason the translators substituted the word enlarge for the correct translation may be that they could not understand why God would allow Japheth to be enticed or deceived. However, God has allowed the whole world to be deceived so that His plan will be fulfilled, a plan that will maximize the salvation of mankind.

(Revelation 12:9); And the great dragon, the serpent of old, called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of all humanity, was forced out and hurled to the earth, and his angels were flung out along with him.

Applying the correct translation to Genesis 9:27, the verse reads

God shall entice/deceive Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Japheth has been enticed and deceived into believing that they are the descendants of Shem. Many of the descendants of Japheth – the KHAZARS (JEWS), Anglos, and Saxons in particular – believe they are Israelites (Hebrews).

Thus the meaning of Noah’s prophecy is that Japheth would be enticed and deceived. Arthur Koestler points to this deeper significance of Japheth in the tents of Shem in his book “The Thirteenth Tribe.” He shows the Jews of today are the descendants of Japheth, not the descendants of Shem. They are dwelling in the tents of Shem as prophesied by God. They call themselves Jews, and subsequently, are thought to be the descendants of Shem. Koestler writes: “How important, in quantitative terms is that presence of the Caucasian sons of Japheth in the tents of Shem?”

By the Jews living in the land of Israel today, they are fulfilling the prophecy in Genesis 27: Japheth’s descendants are dwelling in the tents (house/land) of Shem’s descendants.

Modern Jews can be arranged into distinct ethnic and cultural groups which have originated from different areas of the world. They are known as the Mizrahim, the Sephardic Jews who originated mainly from the Iberian Peninsula, the Middle East (Moslem areas) and Africa, and the Ashkenazi Jews who originated from the European Christian countries.

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I can't even begin to go into the number of places you are wrong -

First off - your original source Paul Kriwaczek - says that Japeth fathered Gomer who fathered Ashkenaz believed to be the GERMAN people - you idiot! This is no doubt the reason that Ashkenaz, the biblical son of Gomer, came to be associated with Germany, too

Your Second Text by Wayne Blank- SAYS THAT ABRAHAM WAS A SHEMITE Abraham was a Shemite and a Hebrew, but not an Israelite or a Jew because neither existed yet

need I go on, you moron, you just proved me right with your own scholars.

edit to add - Ashkenaz is simply a term Jews used to describe German/Yiddish speaking Jews. Because Ashkenaz was the German people. And is no longer in use (based on YOUR scholar) because it became too confusing.



Here are a few TEXTS YOU should consider - especially since you CLAIM to be using Biblical scholars

Genesis 10:10-26

10 These are the family records of Shem. Shem lived 100 years and fathered Arpachshad two years after the deluge. 11 After he fathered Arpachshad, Shem lived 500 years and fathered [other] sons and daughters. 12 Arpachshad lived 35 years [a] and fathered Shelah. 13 After he fathered Shelah, Arpachshad lived 403 years and fathered [other] sons and daughters. 14 Shelah lived 30 years and fathered Eber. 15 After he fathered Eber, Shelah lived 403 years and fathered [other] sons and daughters. 16 Eber lived 34 years and fathered Peleg. 17 After he fathered Peleg, Eber lived 430 years and fathered [other] sons and daughters. 18 Peleg lived 30 years and fathered Reu. 19 After he fathered Reu, Peleg lived 209 years and fathered [other] sons and daughters. 20 Reu lived 32 years and fathered Serug. 21 After he fathered Serug, Reu lived 207 years and fathered [other] sons and daughters. 22 Serug lived 30 years and fathered Nahor. 23 After he fathered Nahor, Serug lived 200 years and fathered [other] sons and daughters. 24 Nahor lived 29 years and fathered Terah. 25 After he fathered Terah, Nahor lived 119 years and fathered [other] sons and daughters. 26 Terah lived 70 years and fathered Abram , Nahor, and Haran.

Luke 3:34-36

[son] of Jacob, [son] of Isaac,
[son] of Abraham, [son] of Terah,
[son] of Nahor, 35 [son] of Serug,
[son] of Reu, [son] of Peleg,
[son] of Eber, [son] of Shelah,

36 [son] of Cainan, [son] of Arphaxad,
[son] of Shem, [son] of Noah,
[son] of Lamech,

I would go on but I think you embarresed yourself enough. I don't need to add to it.

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Hey D-I-P-S-H-I-T. First of all these aren't "my scholars". I am an agnostic.

Secondly, you stated that the Jews were descended from Shem. I specifically mentioned ASHKENAZIM "Jews". The very appellation ASHKENAZIM is directly linked to ASKENAZ, son of Gomer, son of Japheth, son of NOAH. NOT Askenaz, son of SHEM, son of NOAH. You are now f___king around with SEMANTICS. This is for religious CLOWNS like you.

Any sane, modern person knows that the BIBLICAL chronology and its Table of Mankind is primarily FICTION and has no basis or support from archaeology or historicity, or ANY form of scientific research.

Do you think it is at all biologically POSSIBLE for any human to live for 500 years, or 430 years, or 950 years (as in the case of Noah)??? ROFL !!!!!

Also, YOU DID NOT READ OR UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ARTICLE IS SAYING, IDIOT...

Here is a portion of it again, for your EDIFICATION:

[copy-paste]

As for Ashkenaz, it is almost certainly the Hebrew name of the land of the people known to the Assyrians as the Ishkuza and to the Greeks as the Skythoi or Scythians. The Scythians were a powerful confederation of Indo-European tribes who spoke a language of the Iranian family; their original home was the steppe-lands north of the Black Sea, in what today would be southern Ukraine, from where, in the mid-first millennium BCE, their armies spread southwestward into western Asia Minor and southeastward into the Assyrian and Babylonian empires. Jeremiah, vengefully predicting the downfall of the Babylonians in the early sixth-century BCE, after their destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, proclaims: “Blow the trumpet among the nations, prepare the nations against her [Babylon], call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni [both in Armenia], and Ashkenaz.”

As we have seen, the book of Genesis connects the Scythians, or descendants of Ashkenaz, with the Cimmerians, or descendants of Gomer, and historically indeed, the two peoples were closely related, since they were originally neighbors north of the Black Sea, from where the stronger Scythians pushed the Cimmerians further south. A rather fanciful account of the wars between them can be found in Herodotus.

By talmudic times, however, both the Scythians and the Cimmerians had disappeared from the world, swallowed up by other nations. Casting about for the location of Gomer, the rabbis of the talmudic period took it on the basis of phonetic resemblance to be Germania, as the Romans referred to the Teutonic areas west of the Rhine whose tribes they were constantly battling. “Gomer is Germamya [sic],” says the tractate of Yoma, while the tractate of Megillah tells us: “There are three hundred crown wearers [that is, petty kings] in Germamya and three-hundred-sixty-five lords in Rome, and every day they go forth and kill one another because they are too busy fighting to have time to unite under a single king.”

This is no doubt the reason that Ashkenaz, the biblical son of Gomer, came to be associated with Germany, too.

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Now, D-I-P-S-H-I-T...Let me clarify a few simple things. The writer of this article got some of the historicity but was WRONG about the Scythians DISAPPEARING from the world. The KHAZARS WERE SCYTHIANS, or their direct genealogical descendants. Even the author of this article states that Talmudic Rabbis were--

"Casting about for the location of Gomer, the Rabbis of the Talmudic period took it on the basis of phonetic resemblance to be Germania, as the Romans referred to the Teutonic areas west of the Rhine whose tribes they were constantly battling."

This is a pure and simple case of MISPLACED identity by the Talmudic Rabbis based upon the superficial premise of "PHONETIC RESEMBLANCE". What part of that did you NOT understand??? What all of this clearly conveys, is how the appellation ASHKENAZ got TRANSFERRED from SCYTHIANS to GERMANS. How the identities got switched from the AUTHENTIC to the MISTAKEN.

Now WHO IS THE MORON. Stop EMBARASSING YOURSELF and get the f---k out of this message board, clown. ROFL

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Let me get this straight - YOU make claims you don't believe in. You use scholars you don't agree with and you use texts that you don't trust and you call me the idiot.

That is actually probably the very definition of MORON.

If you read my edit you will not that the text YOU chose to use states that the Jews only used the term to describe those IN GERMAN SPEAKING countries. Because ASHKENAZIM was the German people descended from Japher. Ashkenazim was the father of GOMER and EVERYONE knows that Gomer is the German people.

What you are claiming is that Ashkenazim Jews are different from all other Jews. That somehow both Japher and Shem gave rise to the Jewish people. That makes no sense and NO ONE BELIEVES THAT. Not even the people you are using.

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CLOWN...The German people were MISTAKEN for GOMER by Talmudic Rabbis. Again you don't read properly before you respond. Typical minion of pseudo-intellectualism. LOL

The etymological definition of ASHKENAZ is ARCHERS...

SCYTHIA[Grk]=SKUZA[Ask]=ASHKUZ[Old Per]=ASHKUZAIN[Assyr]=ARCHERS[Eng]

***THE ETYMOLOGICAL PROOF THAT ASHKENAZIM WERE SCYTHIANS AND NOT GERMANS***

Ancient Greek had many dialects: Macedonian, Thracian, Attic, Lacadaemonian(i.e. Spartan), etc...

The ASHKENAZ were SCYTHOI in one Greek dialect and ASCANIAS in another. They were the very SAME PEOPLE.

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And by your own scholar who didn't argue against it. He agreed with it. As did your second scholar and the 3 that I posted.

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Ashkenazim are CONVERTS to Judaism from year 740 A.D.

Ashkenazim ARE different racially and ethnically from MIZRAHIM and SEPHARDIM.

And what about the Lemba and the Ethiopian "JEWS"??? Are they ALL one people???

I hope you are aware that there are "Jews" in Iran, South Asia, and China.

How do you get Mongoloid "Jews", Negroid "Jews", Caucasoid "Jews" all descended from the "Kohen" or "Priest" AARON, brother of MOSES???

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Are There Really Jews in China?: An Update

by Daniel J. Elazar

Since the opening of China to Western tourism, there has been a renewed interest in the Chinese Jews; a bit of Jewish exotica which resurfaces in the West from time to time. (Because of its unusual nature, more has been written about the historically insignificant Jewish community of Kaifeng than about the Jewish communities of Chicago or Moscow.) In 1985, Time Magazine even had a full page article on the Chinese Jews of Kaifeng which effectively anointed them full-fledged Jews seeking to preserve their Jewish heritage.

In May 1985, I was in China by invitation to lecture at the Chinese Academy of the Social Sciences, the official government policy research institute, on "The Organizational Dynamics of American Jewry". One of my hosts was Professor Gao Wangezhi, whose own principal interest is Jewish studies, especially the study of the Jews in China. I also met with Professor Zhao, one of the vice-presidents of the Academy, himself a scholar of the philosophy of religion and interested in Jewish thought. I talked with Sidney Shapiro, a Brooklyn Jew who settled in China in 1947 to participate in the Chinese revolution and has since become a Chinese citizen and has raised a Chinese family. Since resurfacing in the West a decade ago, he has become a link between China and world Jewry, makes bagels and lox at home; has visited the United States several times since former President Richard Nixon opened Chinese-American relations in 1971; and pursues the study of the Jews of China as an avocation. Lastly I visited with various Americans, Jewish and non-Jewish, stationed in China at the American Embassy.

Needless to say, one of the major questions which I raised was, to what extent are there Jews in China? And, if there are any, who are they? What follows is I believe, the best available answer to these questions; one which accurately reflects the current situation.

The State of the Kaifeng Community

There are four groups of Jews, or people of Jewish descent in China. The first are the so-called Chinese Jews of Kaifeng, now estimated at some 100 families totalling approximately 500 people. The city of Kaifeng, located approximately 300 miles from Beijing, contains the remnants of a Jewish community which flourished in the city from about the ninth to the seventeenth centuries, and which continued to be identifiably Jewish until the 1840s. The origins of the community are unclear, although they appear to be derived from an invitation extended by a Sung Dynasty emperor to a group of Jews to settle and manufacture cotton fabrics in Kaifeng, which at that time was the imperial capital.

Approximately 1000 Jews responded as a group and formed a community, which reached its peak in the Middle Ages, when Jews from Western and Southern Asia (principally Iran, Afghanistan and India of today) were actively involved in the China trade. They settled in at least six other cities throughout China, including Beijing in the seventeenth century.

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Ashkenazim are CONVERTS to Judaism from year 740 A.D.

No you are wrong

A 2001 study by Nebel et al. showed that both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish populations share the same overall paternal Near Eastern ancestries. In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent. The authors also report on Eu 19 chromosomes, which are very frequent in Eastern Europeans (54%-60%) at elevated frequency (12.7%) in Ashkenazi Jews. They hypothesized that the differences among Ashkenazim Jews could reflect low-level gene flow from surrounding European populations and/or genetic drift during isolation.[40] A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y-chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their host populations in Europe. However, 11.5% of male Ashkenazim were found to belong to R1a1a (M17+), the dominant Y-chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europeans, suggesting possible gene flow.[41]

They did DNA testing and found that Ashkenazim, MIZRAHIM and SEPHARDIM are all very closely related.

And what about the Lemba and the Ethiopian "JEWS"??? Are they ALL one people???

I hope you are aware that there are "Jews" in Iran, South Asia, and China.

How do you get Mongloid "Jews", Negroid "Jews", Caucasoid "Jews" all descended from the "Kohen" or "Priest" AARON, brother of MOSES???


Thanks to DNA testing we will no longer have to actually debate this. I will wait for the test results

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The DNA tests are all bought and paid for, clown. No one in their right mind will ever believe any DNA results which lump the Negroid Lemba & Ethiopian "Jews" with Iranian "Jews", South Asian "Jews", Chinese "Jews", Eastern European "Jews", Eurasian "Jews", South American Latino "Jews", Scandinavian "Jews", etc. as being descended from the Kohen AARON, brother of MOSES. ROFL

Have you heard of history professor SHLOMO SAND of Tel Aviv University?

Here is his research into "JEWRY"...Straight from the State of ISRAEL itself:

[copy-pasted]

SHLOMO SAND by Jonathan Cook

Dr Shlomo Sand argues that the idea of a Jewish nation — whose need for a safe haven was originally used to justify the founding of the state of Israel — is a myth invented little more than a century ago.

An expert on European history at Tel Aviv University, Dr Sand drew on extensive historical and archaeological research to support not only this claim but several more — all equally controversial. In addition, he argues that the Jews were never exiled from the Holy Land, that most of today's Jews have no historical connection to the land called Israel and that the only political solution to the country's conflict with the Palestinians is to abolish the Jewish state.

The success of “When and How Was the Jewish People Invented?” looks likely to be repeated around the world. A French edition, launched last month, is selling so fast that it has already had three print runs.

Translations are under way into a dozen languages, including Arabic and English. But he predicted a rough ride from the pro-Israel lobby when the book is launched by his English publisher, Verso, in the United States next year.

In contrast, he said Israelis had been, if not exactly supportive, at least curious about his argument. Tom Segev, one of the country’s leading journalists, has called the book “fascinating and challenging”.

Surprisingly, Dr Sand said, most of his academic colleagues in Israel have shied away from tackling his arguments. One exception is Israel Bartal, a professor of Jewish history at Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Writing in Haaretz, the Israeli daily newspaper, Dr Bartal made little effort to rebut Dr Sand’s claims. Paradoxically, he dedicated much of his article instead to defending his profession. He suggested that Israeli historians were not as ignorant about the invented nature of Jewish history as Dr Sand contends.

The idea for the book had come to him many years ago, Dr Sand said, but he waited until recently to start working on it. “I cannot claim to be particularly courageous in publishing the book now,” he said. “I waited until I was a full professor. There is a price to be paid in Israeli academia for expressing views of this sort.”

Dr Sand’s main argument is that until little more than a century ago, Jews thought of themselves as Jews only because they shared a common religion. At the turn of the 20th century, he said, Zionist Jews challenged this idea and started creating a national history by inventing the idea that Jews existed as a people separate from their religion.

Equally, the modern Zionist idea of Jews being obligated to return from exile to the Promised Land was entirely alien to Judaism, he added.

“Zionism changed the idea of Jerusalem. Before, the holy places were seen as places to long for, not to be lived in. For 2,000 years Jews stayed away from Jerusalem not because they could not return but because their religion forbade them from returning until the messiah came.”

The biggest surprise during his research came when he started looking at the archaeological evidence from the biblical era.

“I was not raised as a Zionist, but like all other Israelis I took it for granted that the Jews were a people living in Judea and that they were exiled by the Romans in 70 AD.

“But once I started looking at the evidence, I discovered that the kingdoms of David and Solomon were legends.

“Similarly with the exile. In fact, you can’t explain Jewishness without exile. But when I started to look for history books describing the events of this exile, I couldn’t find any. Not one.

“That was because the Romans did not exile people. In fact, Jews in Palestine were overwhelming peasants and all the evidence suggests they stayed on their lands.”

Instead, he believes an alternative theory is more plausible: the exile was a myth promoted by early Christians to recruit Jews to the new faith. “Christians wanted later generations of Jews to believe that their ancestors had been exiled as a punishment from God.”

So if there was no exile, how is it that so many Jews ended up scattered around the globe before the modern state of Israel began encouraging them to “return”?

Dr Sand said that, in the centuries immediately preceding and following the Christian era, Judaism was a proselytising religion, desperate for converts. “This is mentioned in the Roman literature of the time.”

Jews travelled to other regions seeking converts, particularly in Yemen and among the Berber tribes of North Africa. Centuries later, the people of the Khazar kingdom in what is today south Russia, would convert en masse to Judaism, becoming the genesis of the Ashkenazi Jews of central and eastern Europe.

Dr Sand pointed to the strange state of denial in which most Israelis live, noting that papers offered extensive coverage recently to the discovery of the capital of the Khazar kingdom next to the Caspian Sea.

Ynet, the website of Israel’s most popular newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth, headlined the story: “Russian archaeologists find long-lost Jewish capital.” And yet none of the papers, he added, had considered the significance of this find to standard accounts of Jewish history.

One further question is prompted by Dr Sand’s account, as he himself notes: if most Jews never left the Holy Land, what became of them?

“It is not taught in Israeli schools, but most of the early Zionist leaders, including David Ben Gurion [Israel's first prime minister], believed that the Palestinians were the descendants of the area’s original Jews. They believed the Jews had later converted to Islam.”

Dr Sand attributed his colleagues’ reticence to engage with him to an implicit acknowledgement by many that the whole edifice of “Jewish history” taught at Israeli universities is built like a house of cards.

The problem with the teaching of history in Israel, Dr Sand said, dates to a decision in the 1930s to separate history into two disciplines: general history and Jewish history. Jewish history was assumed to need its own field of study because Jewish experience was considered unique.

“There’s no Jewish department of politics or sociology at the universities. Only history is taught in this way, and it has allowed specialists in Jewish history to live in a very insular and conservative world where they are not touched by modern developments in historical research.

“I’ve been criticised in Israel for writing about Jewish history when European history is my specialty. But a book like this needed a historian who is familiar with the standard concepts of historical inquiry used by academia in the rest of the world.”

[end copy-paste]

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The DNA tests are all bought and paid for, clown. No one in their right mind will ever believe any DNA results which lump the Negroid Lemba & Ethiopian "Jews" with Iranian "Jews", South Asian "Jews", Chinese "Jews", Eastern European "Jews", Eurasian "Jews", South American Latino "Jews", Scandinavian "Jews", etc. as being descended from the Kohen AARON, brother of MOSES. ROFL

Really? That is your argument. That the DNA test proving the Ashkenazi Jews are related to Sepherdic Jews are paid for by Jews to what purpose? So that crazy people like you can claim that we can not use the term anti-semitic. Because, hello, we are arguing Shem NOT Aaron.

And there are no test results on all the other Jews. That is why I refuse to argue it with you....POINTLESS.

Also not in the mood to look at Dr. Sand right now.

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POINTLESS?? ROFL

There are NO TEST results on the other "Jews" because it would SHATTER all the COMPLETE B.S. that we are being brainwashed and indoctrinated with!

Either way, Kohen or Shemite or Ashkenazim...They ONLY fact is that Ashkenazim are NOT Semitic and NEVER have been. And the so-called "Jewish" race is a COLOSSAL fallacy.

And if you look into Israeli Professor Shlomo Sand, he'll send your ignorant, deluded ideology right down the toilet...

And I am assuming he too is "Anti-Semitic" in your MORONIC mind...What you need is a cerebral enema to cathartically flush out all that irrational, illogical, improbable excrement the likes of you have been indoctrinated with...

When you do decide to look up Dr. Sand, remember to look up to see what is coming down...

Trying to convince Ashkenazi "Jews" that they are not "Semitic" is like talking to brick walls. It would be comparable to Copernicus & Galileo trying to convince the Christian Church that the earth and the other planets of our solar system orbit around the sun, not vice versa. The Church, of course, thought Copernicus, and later Galileo, to be heretics. But then again we go back to what German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer said about TRUTH:

"EVERY TRUTH PASSES THROUGH THREE STAGES BEFORE IT IS RECOGNIZED:
IN THE FIRST STAGE, IT IS RIDICULED;
IN THE SECOND STAGE, IT IS OPPRESSED;
IN THE THIRD STAGE, IT IS REGARDED AS SELF-EVIDENT"

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ONLY fact is that Ashkenazim are NOT Semitic and NEVER have been

Apparently if the science doesn't agree with your belief system then it isn't true. Because your belief is all that matters. Wow, you and Rush Limbaugh are like twins separated at birth.

"Jewish" race is a COLOSSAL fallacy.

That is sort of silly given the huge amount of Russian pogroms, Aryan-hatred, anti-Jewish laws (see England 1290s), and, yes, even, DEATH CAMPS that have been leveled against them. Why hold on to something that isn't true if for half your history it makes you a target.

cerebral enema to cathartically flush out all that irrational, illogical, improbable sewage the likes of you have been indoctrinated with...

Says the man who doesn't think Auschwitz was even a prison camp.

edit to add - I looked Dr. Sand has little historical documentation for his ideas and they are generally considered to be either wrong or only partly right (based on recent DNA done after his book was written). I don't find him antisemitic I find that he has opinions not based in fact. BIG DIFFERENCE.

If I were you though I would be careful using him as a reference. His parents were in the HOLOCAUST (you know, that thing that didn't happen). And he ends his book defending Israel's right to exist based on it - quote 'ask the Jewish Israeli people, after such a long and bloody conflict, and in view of the tragedy experienced by many of its immigrant founders in the twentieth century, to become overnight a minority in its own state may not be the smartest thing to do” (311-312)'.


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Some more from Professor SHLOMO SAND:

[copy-pasted excerpt]

Shattering a 'national mythology' By Ofri Ilani

Of all the national heroes who have arisen from among the Jewish people over the generations, fate has not been kind to Dahia al-Kahina, a leader of the Berbers in the Aures Mountains. Although she was a proud Jewess, few Israelis have ever heard the name of this warrior-queen who, in the seventh century C.E., united a number of Berber tribes and pushed back the Muslim army that invaded North Africa. It is possible that the reason for this is that al-Kahina was the daughter of a Berber tribe that had converted to Judaism, apparently several generations before she was born, sometime around the 6th century C.E.

According to the Tel Aviv University historian, Prof. Shlomo Sand, author of "Matai ve'ech humtza ha'am hayehudi?" ("When and How the Jewish People Was Invented?"; Resling, in Hebrew), the queen's tribe and other local tribes that converted to Judaism are the main sources from which Spanish Jewry sprang. This claim that the Jews of North Africa originated in indigenous tribes that became Jewish - and not in communities exiled from Jerusalem - is just one element of the far- reaching argument set forth in Sand's new book.

In this work, the author attempts to prove that the Jews now living in Israel and other places in the world are not at all descendants of the ancient people who inhabited the Kingdom of Judea during the First and Second Temple period. Their origins, according to him, are in varied peoples that converted to Judaism during the course of history, in different corners of the Mediterranean Basin and the adjacent regions. Not only are the North African Jews for the most part descendants of pagans who converted to Judaism, but so are the Jews of Yemen (remnants of the Himyar Kingdom in the Arab Peninsula, who converted to Judaism in the fourth century) and the Ashkenazi Jews of Eastern Europe (refugees from the Kingdom of the Khazars, who converted in the eighth century).

Unlike other "new historians" who have tried to undermine the assumptions of Zionist historiography, Sand does not content himself with going back to 1948 or to the beginnings of Zionism, but rather goes back thousands of years. He tries to prove that the Jewish people never existed as a "nation-race" with a common origin, but rather is a colorful mix of groups that at various stages in history adopted the Jewish religion. He argues that for a number of Zionist ideologues, the mythical perception of the Jews as an ancient people led to truly racist thinking: "There were times when if anyone argued that the Jews belong to a people that has gentile origins, he would be classified as an anti-Semite on the spot. Today, if anyone dares to suggest that those who are considered Jews in the world ... have never constituted and still do not constitute a people or a nation - he is immediately condemned as a hater of Israel."

According to Sand, the description of the Jews as a wandering and self-isolating nation of exiles, "who wandered across seas and continents, reached the ends of the earth and finally, with the advent of Zionism, made a U-turn and returned en masse to their orphaned homeland," is nothing but "national mythology." Like other national movements in Europe, which sought out a splendid Golden Age, through which they invented a heroic past - for example, classical Greece or the Teutonic tribes - to prove they have existed since the beginnings of history, "so, too, the first buds of Jewish nationalism blossomed in the direction of the strong light that has its source in the mythical Kingdom of David."

So when, in fact, was the Jewish people invented, in Sand's view? At a certain stage in the 19th century, intellectuals of Jewish origin in Germany, influenced by the folk character of German nationalism, took upon themselves the task of inventing a people "retrospectively," out of a thirst to create a modern Jewish people. From historian Heinrich Graetz on, Jewish historians began to draw the history of Judaism as the history of a nation that had been a kingdom, became a wandering people and ultimately turned around and went back to its birthplace.

Actually, most of your book does not deal with the invention of the Jewish people by modern Jewish nationalism, but rather with the question of where the Jews come from.

Sand: "My initial intention was to take certain kinds of modern historiographic materials and examine how they invented the 'figment' of the Jewish people. But when I began to confront the historiographic sources, I suddenly found contradictions. And then that urged me on: I started to work, without knowing where I would end up. I took primary sources and I tried to examine authors' references in the ancient period - what they wrote about conversion."

Sand, an expert on 20th-century history, has until now researched the intellectual history of modern France (in "Ha'intelektual, ha'emet vehakoah: miparashat dreyfus ve'ad milhemet hamifrats" - "Intellectuals, Truth and Power, From the Dreyfus Affair to the Gulf War"; Am Oved, in Hebrew). Unusually, for a professional historian, in his new book he deals with periods that he had never researched before, usually relying on studies that present unorthodox views of the origins of the Jews.

Experts on the history of the Jewish people say you are dealing with subjects about which you have no understanding and are basing yourself on works that you can't read in the original.

"It is true that I am an historian of France and Europe, and not of the ancient period. I knew that the moment I would start dealing with early periods like these, I would be exposed to scathing criticism by historians who specialize in those areas. But I said to myself that I can't stay just with modern historiographic material without examining the facts it describes. Had I not done this myself, it would have been necessary to have waited for an entire generation. Had I continued to deal with France, perhaps I would have been given chairs at the university and provincial glory. But I decided to relinquish the glory."

Inventing the Diaspora

"After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people remained faithful to it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom" - thus states the preamble to the Israeli Declaration of Independence. This is also the quotation that opens the third chapter of Sand's book, entitled "The Invention of the Diaspora." Sand argues that the Jewish people's exile from its land never happened.

"The supreme paradigm of exile was needed in order to construct a long-range memory in which an imagined and exiled nation-race was posited as the direct continuation of 'the people of the Bible' that preceded it," Sand explains. Under the influence of other historians who have dealt with the same issue in recent years, he argues that the exile of the Jewish people is originally a Christian myth that depicted that event as divine punishment imposed on the Jews for having rejected the Christian gospel.

"I started looking in research studies about the exile from the land - a constitutive event in Jewish history, almost like the Holocaust. But to my astonishment I discovered that it has no literature. The reason is that no one exiled the people of the country. The Romans did not exile peoples and they could not have done so even if they had wanted to. They did not have trains and trucks to deport entire populations. That kind of logistics did not exist until the 20th century. From this, in effect, the whole book was born: in the realization that Judaic society was not dispersed and was not exiled."

If the people was not exiled, are you saying that in fact the real descendants of the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Judah are the Palestinians?

"No population remains pure over a period of thousands of years. But the chances that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Judaic people are much greater than the chances that you or I are its descendents. The first Zionists, up until the Arab Revolt [1936-9], knew that there had been no exiling, and that the Palestinians were descended from the inhabitants of the land. They knew that farmers don't leave until they are expelled. Even Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, the second president of the State of Israel, wrote in 1929 that, 'the vast majority of the peasant farmers do not have their origins in the Arab conquerors, but rather, before then, in the Jewish farmers who were numerous and a majority in the building of the land.'"

And how did millions of Jews appear around the Mediterranean Sea?

"The people did not spread, but the Jewish religion spread. Judaism was a converting religion. Contrary to popular opinion, in early Judaism there was a great thirst to convert others. The Hasmoneans were the first to begin to produce large numbers of Jews through mass conversion, under the influence of Hellenism. The conversions between the Hasmonean Revolt and Bar Kochba's rebellion are what prepared the ground for the subsequent, wide-spread dissemination of Christianity. After the victory of Christianity in the fourth century, the momentum of conversion was stopped in the Christian world, and there was a steep drop in the number of Jews. Presumably many of the Jews who appeared around the Mediterranean became Christians. But then Judaism started to permeate other regions - pagan regions, for example, such as Yemen and North Africa. Had Judaism not continued to advance at that stage and had it not continued to convert people in the pagan world, we would have remained a completely marginal religion, if we survived at all."

How did you come to the conclusion that the Jews of North Africa were originally Berbers who converted?

"I asked myself how such large Jewish communities appeared in Spain. And then I saw that Tariq ibn Ziyad, the supreme commander of the Muslims who conquered Spain, was a Berber, and most of his soldiers were Berbers. Dahia al-Kahina's Jewish Berber kingdom had been defeated only 15 years earlier. And the truth is there are a number of Christian sources that say many of the conquerors of Spain were Jewish converts. The deep-rooted source of the large Jewish community in Spain was those Berber soldiers who converted to Judaism."

Sand argues that the most crucial demographic addition to the Jewish population of the world came in the wake of the conversion of the kingdom of Khazaria - a huge empire that arose in the Middle Ages on the steppes along the Volga River, which at its height ruled over an area that stretched from the Georgia of today to Kiev. In the eighth century, the kings of the Khazars adopted the Jewish religion and made Hebrew the written language of the kingdom. From the 10th century the kingdom weakened; in the 13th century is was utterly defeated by Mongol invaders, and the fate of its Jewish inhabitants remains unclear.

Sand revives the hypothesis, which was already suggested by historians in the 19th and 20th centuries, according to which the Judaized Khazars constituted the main origins of the Jewish communities in Eastern Europe.

"At the beginning of the 20th century there is a tremendous concentration of Jews in Eastern Europe - three million Jews in Poland alone," he says. "The Zionist historiography claims that their origins are in the earlier Jewish community in Germany, but they do not succeed in explaining how a small number of Jews who came from Mainz and Worms could have founded the Yiddish people of Eastern Europe. The Jews of Eastern Europe are a mixture of Khazars and Slavs who were pushed eastward."

'Degree of perversion'

If the Jews of Eastern Europe did not come from Germany, why did they speak Yiddish, which is a Germanic language?

"The Jews were a class of people dependent on the German bourgeoisie in the East, and thus they adopted German words. Here I base myself on the research of linguist Paul Wechsler of Tel Aviv University, who has demonstrated that there is no etymological connection between the German Jewish language of the Middle Ages and Yiddish. As far back as 1828, the Ribal (Rabbi Isaac Ber Levinson) said that the ancient language of the Jews was not Yiddish. Even Ben Zion Dinur, the father of Israeli historiography, was not hesitant about describing the Khazars as the origin of the Jews in Eastern Europe, and describes Khazaria as 'the mother of the diasporas' in Eastern Europe. But more or less since 1967, anyone who talks about the Khazars as the ancestors of the Jews of Eastern Europe is considered naive and moonstruck."

Why do you think the idea of the Khazar origins is so threatening?

"It is clear that the fear is of an undermining of the historic right to the land. The revelation that the Jews are not from Judea would ostensibly knock the legitimacy for our being here out from under us. Since the beginning of the period of decolonization, settlers have no longer been able to say simply: 'We came, we won and now we are here' the way the Americans, the whites in South Africa and the Australians said. There is a very deep fear that doubt will be cast on our right to exist."

Is there no justification for this fear?

"No. I don't think that the historical myth of the exile and the wanderings is the source of the legitimization for me being here, and therefore I don't mind believing that I am Khazar in my origins. I am not afraid of the undermining of our existence, because I think that the character of the State of Israel undermines it in a much more serious way. What would constitute the basis for our existence here is not mythological historical right, but rather would be for us to start to establish an open society here of all Israeli citizens."

In effect you are saying that there is no such thing as a Jewish people.

"I don't recognize an international people. I recognize 'the Yiddish people' that existed in Eastern Europe, which though it is not a nation can be seen as a Yiddishist civilization with a modern popular culture. I think that Jewish nationalism grew up in the context of this 'Yiddish people.' I also recognize the existence of an Israeli people, and do not deny its right to sovereignty. But Zionism and also Arab nationalism over the years are not prepared to recognize it.

"From the perspective of Zionism, this country does not belong to its citizens, but rather to the Jewish people. I recognize one definition of a nation: a group of people that wants to live in sovereignty over itself. But most of the Jews in the world have no desire to live in the State of Israel, even though nothing is preventing them from doing so. Therefore, they cannot be seen as a nation."

What is so dangerous about Jews imagining that they belong to one people? Why is this bad?

"In the Israeli discourse about roots there is a degree of perversion. This is an ethnocentric, biological, genetic discourse. But Israel has no existence as a Jewish state: If Israel does not develop and become an open, multicultural society we will have a Kosovo in the Galilee. The consciousness concerning the right to this place must be more flexible and varied, and if I have contributed with my book to the likelihood that I and my children will be able to live with the others here in this country in a more egalitarian situation - I will have done my bit.

"We must begin to work hard to transform our place into an Israeli republic where ethnic origin, as well as faith, will not be relevant in the eyes of the law. Anyone who is acquainted with the young elites of the Israeli Arab community can see that they will not agree to live in a country that declares it is not theirs. If I were a Palestinian I would rebel against a state like that, but even as an Israeli I am rebelling against it."

The question is whether for those conclusions you had to go as far as the Kingdom of the Khazars.

"I am not hiding the fact that it is very distressing for me to live in a society in which the nationalist principles that guide it are dangerous, and that this distress has served as a motive in my work. I am a citizen of this country, but I am also a historian and as a historian it is my duty to write history and examine texts. This is what I have done."

If the myth of Zionism is one of the Jewish people that returned to its land from exile, what will be the myth of the country you envision?

"To my mind, a myth about the future is better than introverted mythologies of the past. For the Americans, and today for the Europeans as well, what justifies the existence of the nation is a future promise of an open, progressive and prosperous society. The Israeli materials do exist, but it is necessary to add, for example, pan-Israeli holidays. To decrease the number of memorial days a bit and to add days that are dedicated to the future. But also, for example, to add an hour in memory of the Nakba [literally, the "catastrophe" - the Palestinian term for what happened when Israel was established], between Memorial Day and Independence Day."

[end copy-paste]

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Look you moron your scholar clearly states that it ONLY refers to Jews in Germany NOT Jews anywhere else in the world.

edit to add - Ashkenazi Jews descended from the medieval Jewish communities along the Rhine in Germany from Alsace in the south to the Rhineland in the north. Ashkenaz is the medieval Hebrew name for this region and thus for Germany. hus, Ashkenazim or Ashkenazi Jews are literally "German Jews." (wikipedia)

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I NEVER upheld that Auschwitz wasn't a labour camp or concentration camp. I just KNOW that it NEVER was an intended DEATH CAMP where mass gassings took place.

And your Rush Limbaugh crack just shows you are getting tired. Your witticisms have been exhausted and you've got no balls left to even attempt to effectively refute...Not tonite anyway...

And you have yet to respond to Professor Shlomo Sand's research and study...

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I edited my previous post to add my Shlomo thoughts

But here is a nice quote from you from 3 days ago at the beginning of this thread

Auschwitz had 12 kitchens, a theatre, chapel, hospital, library, classrooms, general store, brothel, swimming pool, sauna, soceer field and post office. There were also several orchestras and weekly plays. Auschwitz was hardly a prison. 3000 babies were born in Auschwitz. Weddings were performed and there was even a courthouse and a prison. 650 detainess were released from Auschwitz! Funny, not one of them wrote a book on gas chambers. Lie of the century.

unless you are again quoting people you don't agree with.

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All those things stated about Auschwitz ARE DOCUMENTED FACT...Straight from the mouths of some your "Holocaust" survivors. All you have to do is watch Eric Hunt's LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE where he added all the footage from some of the interviews of "Holocaust" survivors by Spielberg's Shoah Visual History Foundation.

Auschwitz was officially a labour camp but in reality was more like an enclosed community. There IS SURVIVING DOCUMENTARY FILM FOOTAGE OF ALL THESE THINGS MENTIONED ABOUT AUSCHWITZ. They have been UPLOADED ON YOUTUBE. Watch for yourself and also listen to the interviews of some of your "Holocaust" survivors in Eric Hunt's LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE...

The TRUTH is SELF-EVIDENT...

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So now you are saying it WASN'T a prison camp just a nice place to hang out during the war. Hmmm bit confused here.

As for the video itself:

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - not worth my time.

But if you get me some footage of killing of 40,000,000 blacks on slave ships I am sure I will believe that. Cuz if you say it and make a video of it - then IT MUST BE TRUE. But if you do a DNA test - it is a lie.

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You won't watch the video because you are AFRAID to see the FACTS. You can't handle the TRUTH...(To quote the line from A FEW GOOD MEN). That is why it is not worth your time. BTW those were not my own quotes you are throwing at me...If you revisit that post, it is some quotes from YouTube comments. However, I did find them interesting enough to post them here. The problem with you is you don't really read what is being posted in detail. Consequently, you keep getting your ass handed to you...Now, you are just going back-and-forth, playing word games to find some desperate way to make a point about a colossal falsehood which you believe is the truth.

GIVE IT UP. You are just rambling on.

As for Dr. Sand, you didn't say anything worth a sh_t. Dr. Sand is important in establishing who the Ashkenazim are and what constitutes a so-called "Jew"...But as is becoming predictable about your methods, you played some angle about his parents in labour camps to evade confronting the real issue: Dr. Sand's stance on 'when and how the Jewish people were invented'...

GIVE IT UP, MAN. You are not getting anything across that carries any weight. All you seem to want to do is get in the last word...No matter how fruitless or pointless it may be...

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No, I won't watch it because it isn't worth my time. I will admit I don't know if it was your quote, Eric Hunt or one of the people you quoted but anyone who believes that 40,000,000 blacks died in slave ships and there are 66 million communist victims (MANY scholars say no to BOTH) are obviously people who don't base their beliefs in anything more than what they want to believe in. And I don't need the truth from someone whose defense attorney described him as a lost soul with mental problems.

I know they weren't your quotes. In fact, if you ACTUALLY read what I said - "or are you using quotes from people you don't agree with again?" Something you seem to do on a regular basis.

Dr. Sand used opinion. I want fact, I want data, I want historical documents. And so does everyone else because few people actually find him important. Interesting, yes. Important, not so much. Again, DNA mostly proves his theories wrong. So the question is what does he offer to prove DNA wrong? Apart from your belief that the Jews bought off the test results.

And my point to his parents was that he defends something YOU call a LIE. Because his biography says that his parents were in "the holocaust" not a labor camp.

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YOU ARE SUCH A F__KING HYPOCRITE. You believe and defend the Holohoax, yet you are unwilling to believe that 40,000,000 blacks died in slave ships...Or that 66 million people were victims to Soviet Communism. I see, so only the Ashkenazim have a MONOPOLY on being victims with outrageous exaggerations regading their victimization. ROFL

I use quotes from other people to show that I am not some isolated ideologist. Others have SIMILAR and VARIED views on the subject matters debated here.

Dr. Sand did not use opinion. HE USED FACT. He is a historian with a degree in history.

YOU HAVE BEEN PRESENTED WITH MANY FACTS. Yet, what you really want is like-minded version of "FACTS" such as that which you believe in. NOT REAL FACTS. You are unwilling to handle the REAL FACTS.

Dr. Sand is the most COURAGEOUS of all possible Israeli citizens to write the book he did. Even IF he secretly KNEW that the Holocaust was in reality a hoax, he would NEVER come out and admit it. Israel and the supporters of the State of Israel are not ready for this yet. And Dr. Sand would be deported from Israel or worse.

He could also be unwilling to accept the fact about the Holohoax. He is after all human. But his out-of-the-jewish-box historical research is long overdue. However, he isn't the first one to cover such ground. He is just the most recent one. His book HOW AND WHEN WERE THE JEWISH PEOPLE INVENTED covers this extensively. But, I don't think you have even READ the actual book. As you like having your ass handed to you in such debates.

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Okay, read the website and all I can say - "is that all you got?" That is Hunt's "proof" that Auschwitz was a nice camp. That is all there is to "prove" the holocaust didn't happen.

Hello, if any Holocaust "believer" used that documentary as "proof" that the Holocaust happened they would be laughed out of town. For one thing, Hunt has to constantly use people who were there to deny the words of those who weren't. Except that the people he uses NEVER say it didn't happen or the camps weren't what they were said to be. They only say that the people in the film weren't there. So even if the interviewees are liars doesn't make the Holocaust untrue. And he never establishes that.

Furthermore, Hunt makes claims that Auschwitz was a nice place. Hmmmm, apparently after getting your panties in a bunch that I didn't quote you right about what a nice place it was, it is actually in the documentary you want me to accept as fact. Now i am not sure how the documentary differs from the website but on the website Hunt doesn't give a single name to a survivor that experienced the "true and nice" camp. Here is a nice website using the British soccer photo from Hunt's website. Apparently, the British POW's actually agree that the Jews were killed on a regular basis even though they "mostly" had Geneva Convention protection. http://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/lifestyle-features/26001/revealed-british-troops-imprisoned-auschwitz

and this British POW who describes the "nice" camp pffft. http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article7039572.ece

and then Hunt starts his closing on the website with a quote from Hitler about how nasty the Jews are. Hmmm, note to Hunt, want people to take you seriously - DON'T QUOTE HITLER for anything.

Pst, Hitler called them a race not a religion. Too bad he didn't read Dr. Sand maybe he wouldn't have hated them so much

This isn't a documentary. But it will be a great teaching tool for how not to make a documentary.

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And to touch upon Hitler calling the "Juden" a race. Hitler was not a professional historian, sociologist, epigraphist, or archaeologist according to our contemporary standards. He was wrong about certain things. He obviously didn't do enough research on the SCYTHIANS(ASHKENAZIM)/KHAZARS or read Hugo von Kutsera's book on the subject. Hitler was wrong about Europeans being Aryan. But he wasn't the ONLY ONE. The general "white" race of Europe, North America, and Australia held themselves to be ARYAN. That was the ideology of the TIMES.

Hitler despised the "Juden" because THEY STABBED THEIR ADOPTIVE COUNTRY GERMANY IN THE BACK. Plain and simple. I already covered this. How world "Jewry" BOYCOTTED Germany's exports internationally which further plunged Germany into a horrible economic depression. Prior to that, Ashkenazi Germans WORKED FROM BOTH ANGLES, within their adopted homeland in Germany and abroad in the U.S. to make Germany LOSE in World War I, just so they could realize Theodore Herzl's Zionist ideology for a "Jewish State". The Ashkenazim Germans DID NOT WANT TO WAIT FOR THE MESSIAH TO COME as it states in Talmudic doctrines. They brazenly VIOLATED their OWN TALMUDIC PROPHECY which expressly states that the "Judeans" cannot return to PALESTINE (i.e. ISRAEL) UNTIL the MESSIAH ARRIVES.

First of all, in Christian theology, the MESSIAH ALREADY CAME: ISA/YESHIVA/JESUS. However, the Palestinian Yahudi(Judeans) DID NOT ACCEPT JESUS AS THEIR MESSIAH. Why? Because the prophecy expressly states that the MESSIAH WILL COME FROM THE HOUSE OF DAVID. Well, Jesus HAD NO BIOLOGICAL FATHER. And the Palestinian Judeans(Yahudi) suspected MARY of fornication and they were not SURE WHO THE BIOLOGICAL FATHER OF JESUS WAS. However, being the HYPOCRITES they are, the Judeans VIOLATED THEIR OWN RELIGIOUS PRECEPTS BECAUSE IN JUDAISM, Judaic lineage depends on MATRILINEAL DESCENT FOR "JEWISH" LEGITIMACY. It doesn't matter who or what lineage the biological father may be, as long as the MOTHER is of the House of David. MARY WAS OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID. So it didn't matter if JESUS had a father or not. Now here is the contradiction, in order to be descended from the Kohen or Priest AARON (brother of MOSES) the DESCENT has to be PATRILINEAL. It is the KOHEN GENE which defines the so-called "JEWISH" DNA.



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I was being freakin' sarcastic. And really and truly do not care how Hitler or you came by your antisemitic attitude.

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As it begins to wind down, you have really nothing left to offer except sarcasm.

And it was clearly EXPLAINED how Hitler came to have Anti-Juden attitude.

However, I AM HARDLY ANTI-SEMITIC : I HAVE NO REAL PROBLEM WITH ARABS AND OTHER MIDDLE EASTERNERS. ASHKENAZI "JEWS" ARE WANNABE MIDDLE EASTERNERS. AND THAT IS ALL THEY EVER WILL BE. THEY EVEN STOLE THE PALESTINIAN DISH HUMMUS AND CLAIM IT IS "JEWISH".

The Anglicized appellation A-R-A-B does not clarify the DISTINCTION that there are TWO words in the Arabic language which identify "Arabs":

A'ARAAB [Alif=long A + Ayin=short A + Ra=R + Alif=long A + Ba=B]--

These are the TRUE Arabs, indigenous inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula.

'ARAB [Ayin=short A + Ra=R + Ba=B]--

These are Arabic-language speakers and NOT TRUE (PENINSULAR) ARABS. They include the neighbouring peoples such as the Jordanians, Palestinians, Mesoptamians/Iraqis(Arabized Assyrians included), Lebanese(Phoenicians), Syrians, Egyptians, Libyans, Algerians, Tunisians, and Moroccans.

In English and other Indo-European languages, the two distinct categories are BOTH collectively classified as "ARABS".

I am disapproving of Zionist propaganda, lies, and distortions. Yes, I am Anti-Zionist IDEOLOGY.

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And DNA proves that they are all MUCH more closely related to each other than to Europeans and as long as your entire belief system is based on the argument that DNA "is bought" you will be nothing short of delusional.

And the Zionists had NOTHING to do with the "evil" you claim the Jews wreaked on Germany causing Germany and Hitler's wrath. Unless you are now going to argue that they planned the whole thing out.

Hmmmm, I can see it now
1. get hitler to hate us.
2. pretend that he is persecuting us.
3. get British and American soldiers to lie for us.
4. get the world to let us have land in Palestine.

You are RIGHT! It was always the Zionists behind it that is why you claim in earlier posts that the Jews destroyed the German economy!

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So you came out of the closet and reveal you are, SURPIRSE! A "Jew"...Whatever happened to being just plain AMERICAN??

IF the DNA is an exact match with the INDIGENOUS Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians (i.e. the TRUE Levantines), then YES they are most likely descended from them.

But the DNAs you're talkling about are comparing Ashkenazim with Sephardim. The Sephardim are also Europeans: Spaniards & Portuguese. The Sephardim are NOT North Africans who are Imazighen (i.e. Berbers). The Ashkenazim are Eurasian.

So you still are INSANELY DELUDED enough to believe that the Negro Lemba and Ethiopian "Jews"; the South Asian "Jews" (i.e. Indo-Pakistanis); the Afghan "Jews"; the Iranian "Jews"; the Scandinavian "Jews"; the Eurasian "Jews"; the Polish "Jews"; the French "Jews"; the Italian "Jews"; the Chinese "Jews", etc., etc., ARE ALL CLOSELY RELATED?? ROFL

You see, you deluded Zionists are in a catch-22 situation. If you admit that some of the above mentioned ARE CONVERTS to Judaism, then your entire delusion of Judaism being an ETHNIC religion goes out the window. Once it is established that Judaism is NOT an ethnic religion but was in FACT a proselytizing one, then that opens up the Pandora's Box of the Ashkenazim also being CONVERTS to Judaism. So conveniently, the National Academy of Sciences DID NOT do the DNA tests of the Negro Lemba & Ethiopian "Jews", the Chinese "Jews", the Iranian "Jews", the South Asian "Jews", the South American & Latin American "Jews", etc., etc...

How CONVENIENT...

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http://articles.sfgate.com/2007-02-17/bay-area/17233246_1_san-francisco-police-eric-hunt-argent-hotel

Eric Hunt attacked a holocaust (holohoax) survivor).

Nice guy.

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Now you are getting PATHETIC. Eric Hunt fully covered his unfortunate arrest and imprisonment for just grabbing that Holohoax pimp Elie Wiesel by the sleeve for an interview. Anyone can listen to Hunt speak about it candidly in his interview with Carolyn Yeager on YouTube. Hunt eventually fought the justice system in regards to his unjust imprisonment and won. But then again, you probably won't because it may not be worth your time to LISTEN TO PERTINENT FACTS about any given situation or event. BTW Elie Wiesel has his own problems...Here is an excerpt of it:

[copy-pasted]

Auschwitz Survivor Claims Elie Wiesel is an Impostor

March 4, 2009

English Language Exclusive!

http://www.henrymakow.com/translated...hungarian.html

This article was based on this one
Miklos Gruner personally approached the journal a few days ago to propose a free interview. Gruner was accompanied by an Hungarian surgeon.
-----------------------------------

In May 1944 , when Miklos Gruner was 15, he was deported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau with his mother, father as well as a younger and an elder brother. He says that his mother and his younger brother were immediately killed after their arrival in the camp. Then he, his elder brother and their father had an inmate number tattooed on their arms and were sent to perform hard work in a synthetic fuel factory linked to IG Farben where the father died six months later. After that, the elder brother was sent to Mauthausen and, as the young Miklos was then alone, two elder Jewish inmates who were also Hungarians and friends with his late father took him under their protection. These two protectors of the young Miklos were the Lazar and Abraham Wiesel brothers.

In the following months, Miklos Gruner and Lazar Wiesel became good friends. Lazar Wiesel was 31 years old in 1944. Miklos never forgot the number Lazar was tattooed with by the Nazis: A-7713. In January 1945, as the Russian army was coming, the inmates were transferred to Buchenwald. During the three months this transfer took, partly by foot, partly by train, more than half of the inmates died and amongst them was Abraham, the elder brother of Lazar Wiesel. In April 8, 1945, the US army liberated Buchenwald. Miklos and Lazar were amongst the survivors of the camp. As Miklos had tuberculosis, he was sent in a Swiss clinic and therefore was separated from Lazar. After recovering, Miklos emigrated to Australia while his elder brother, who also survived the war, established himself in Sweden.

Years later, in 1986, Miklos was contacted in Australia by a Swedish journal and was invited to come in Sweden in order to meet "an old friend" named Elie Wiesel... As Miklos answered that he doesn`t know anyone with this name, he was told Elie Wiesel was the same person Miklos knew in the Nazi camps under the name Lazar Wiesel and with the inmate number A-7713... Miklos still remembered that number and he was therefore convinced at that point that he was going to meet his old friend Lazar and happily accepted the invitation to fly to Sweden in December 14, 1986. Miklos recalls:

" I was very happy at the idea of meeting Lazar but when I got out of the plane, I was stunned to see a man I didn`t recognize at all, who didn`t even speak Hungarian and who was speaking English in a strong French accent... so, our meeting was over in about ten minutes. As a goodbye gift, the man gave me a book titled "Night" of which he claimed to be the author. I accepted the book I didn`t know at that time but told everyone there that this man was not the person he pretended to be!"

Miklos recalls that during this strange meeting, Elie Wiesel refused to show him the tattooed number on his arm, saying he didn`t want to exhibit his body. Miklos adds that Elie Wiesel showed his tattooed number afterward to an Israeli journalist who Miklos met and this journalist told Miklos that he didn`t have time to identify the number but... was certain it wasn`t a tattoo. Miklos says:

- After that meeting with Elie Wiesel, I did research everywhere I could for twenty years and found out that the man calling himself Elie Wiesel has never been in a Nazi camp since he doesn`t figure on any official list of detainees.

Miklos also found out that the book Elie Wiesel gave him in 1986 as something he has written himself was in fact written in Hungarian in 1955 by Miklos old friend Lazar Wiesel and published in Paris under the title "A Világ Hallgat", meaning approximately "The Silence of the World". The book was then shortened and rewritten in French as well as in English in order to be published under the author`s name Elie Wiesel in 1958, under the french title "La Nuit" and the English title "Night". Ten million copies of the book were sold in the world by Elie Wiesel who even received a Nobel prize for it in 1986 while -says Miklos- the real author Lazar Wiesel was mysteriously missing...

- Elie Wiesel never wanted to meet me again, says Miklos. He became very successful; he takes 25 thousand dollars for a 45 minutes speech on the Holocaust. I have officially reported to the FBI that Elie Wiesel is an impostor but had no answer. I have also complained to the Swedish Royal Academy of Sciences with no result. The American and the Swedish media which I tried to contact were indifferent. I have received anonymous calls telling me I could be shot if I don`t shut up but I am not afraid of death any more. I have deposited the whole dossier in four different countries and, if I died suddenly, they would be made public. The world must know that Elie Wiesel is an impostor and I am going to tell it, I am going to publish the truth in a book called "The Story of a Stolen Nobel Prize Identity".
----------
[end copy-paste]

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I actually did read the report - on an Aryan nation website and even that site says that he tried to drag Wiesel into the hotel room against his will. And even that site states that his own defense attorney calls him a lost soul with bipolar disorder and was mentally ill and his own mother helped turn him in.

Interesting report on Wiesel. But there are WAY more people than Wiesel who wrote books and said that they were there. Including Miklos.

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"Aryan nation websites" are extremists. Like many, their ideology is mixture of TRUTH and DELUSION. First of all, ARYANS are not EUROPEANS. They NEVER have been. ARYANS are people from NW India (including Pakistan), Afghanistan, and Iran(Persia). ARYA is a word found in Vedic Sanskrit as literally meaning NOBLE. India's OLDEST known name was ARYAVARTA (Noble Monarchy). The very apellation I-R-A-N literally means A-R-Y-A-N in FARSI. It goes back to Middle Persian of the Sassanian times. Afghanistan at one time was listed on the world maps as ARYANA. Europeans are no more ARYANS than ASHKENAZIM are SEMITIC.

Listen to Eric Hunt SPEAK in the uploaded interview he gave Carolyn Yeager on YouTube. He hardly sounds like a mentally imbalanced young man. He is just an average American kid who is quite intelligent and articulate. The media tried to portray him as a white-supremacist, mentally disturbed kid who attacked Wiesel.

People were there at Auschwitz. But what REALLY happened there is what is being debated. You CONVENIENTLY ignored the recorded INTERVIEWS with Auschwitz survivors which CLEARLY SUPPORT the truths about Auschwitz. The plays, hospital, the post office, the orchestras, the sports ground, the swimming pool, etc. There is NOT ONLY multiple interviews of the Auschwitz survivors regarding these FACTS, but there is SURVIVING documentary footage which are uploaded on YouTube which ANYONE CAN VIEW !! You are unwilling to accept what is accessible to SHATTER YOUR OPINION. And you speak of wanting FACTS!? LOL

Go away, man. You are just going around in circles and have had your ass handed to you on several occasions...Which you don't seem to accept or even be aware of. Now speak about being DELUDED. I must say though, thanks to you people like myself managed to unload rather sizable information so others who may have been brainwashed or indoctrinated with Holohoax lies and Zionist lies can re-evaluate them. You have served a valuable purpose.

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And you conveniently ignored the websites of British POW who were there and SMELLED the ovens and saw the gas chambers.

Like I said - I am not wasting 2 hours of my life watching the video but I did read Hunt's website and he used a photo from an on-line article where the POWs say the exact opposite of what he does. And they have no stake in proving the Jews right. In fact they admit to being antisemitic and still finding the German treatment of the Jews appalling and disgusting. As you and Hunt have so conveniently pointed out PEOPLE lie and photographs can be doctored so what is on his site is of little importance when there is overwhelming evidence by a large majority of people who WERE there who say the opposite of Hunt.

And I don't care if he sounds normal. That is the whole point of being bipolar. You 'appear' normal. It was HIS defense attorney and his mother - NOT the media that said this.

I must say though, thanks to you people like myself managed to unload rather sizable information

I was thinking the exact same thing. My reading the website, posting DNA information and pointing out the lies saves them from thinking you know what you are talking about.

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Hunt's defense attorney said this probably because heavens NO, you cannot be a Holohoax revisionist in Europe, Canada, and now even in the U.S. Otherwise, he would be branded a hate-criminal and forced to serve time for what was a misdemeanor. What Hunt probably wanted to see was Elie Wiesel's ALLEGED Auschwitz tattoo which he has yet to show to the world. Wiesel is supposedly Hungarian but has never been known to speak Hungarian. His English accent is hardly Hungarian. Are you old enough to remember the Gabor sisters? You remember Eva from GREEN ACRES?? That is what a Hungarian accent sounds like. Not the accent in which Elie Wiesel speaks.

So you don't want to "waste" your time to find out the TRUTH. Yet you will waste more than that on this message board debating through your ass.

Unless you view and analyze your opponents in ideology, you will NEVER truly KNOW what to refute and what you CANNOT refute. You haven't read Dr. Sand's book (yes, it has been translated in English); you haven't watched Eric Hunt's LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE. Have you watched Ashkenazi David Cole's Auschwitz video? Or Dr. Fred Toben's video series on JUDEA DECLARES WAR ON GERMANY?? How about any of Fred Leuchter's or Ernst Zundel's videos?? Not to leave out Carlos Whitlock Porter, Germar Rudolf, David Irving, Bradley Smith, Robert Faurisson, Carlo Mattogno, the late Francois Duprat (who was killed by Zionist extremists)...

First LISTEN and ANALYZE your opponents to understand what it is they are truly saying without CRYING "ANTI-SEMITISM", "WHITE SUPREMACISTS", "NEO-NAZIS", and any other COP OUTS that come to mind. If you can't handle that than you might consider changing your username here on IMDb to Claude Balls the Fifth. You are clawing at your balls to see if you really have any...And you might as well take the Fifth Amendment to avoid speaking the TRUTH.

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you don't want to "waste" your time to find out the TRUTH.

Are you blind as well as stupid. I read the website, so I don't need to see the 2 hour video. It is not needed because unless you haven't actually been to the website all the information is in the website. He completely breaks down his video into segements of his "facts." I DID waste my time finding out the "truth" from Hunt's own written words.

And the truth is that he used a photo of British soldiers who COMPLETELY refute his claims. I do know what Hunt says in his video and there is beyond massive amounts of people (MUCH MORE than in LAST DAYS video) who were there, people that Hunt even uses and say that it was a death camp. Not originally but eventually.

And if any of your above mentioned videos are as "good" as Hunt's I will pass. I also don't need to read Dr. Sand's book because it was written before the DNA testing and is no longer relevant to people who believe in science more than conspiracy theories. I have read enough personal accounts of people actually there.

,

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You're just desperate. You are doing the old confuse and distort trick. Now you are just some typical Zionist clown running around in circles. There is NO SCIENCE in LIES.

IF the Ashkenazim are closely related to the Palestinians and the neighbouring Middle Easterners, than WHY DO THE ZIONISTS HATE THEM ALL SO MUCH?? It was the Zionists WHO DREW FIRST BLOOD.

THE ASHKENAZIM ARE NOT IN ANY WAY FROM THE LEVANT. THEY ORIGINATED FROM SOUTHERN RUSSIA. THEY ARE THE DIRECT DESCENDANTS OF SCYTHIANS/KHAZARS.

Of course, having intermarried with various Eastern and Western Europeans, most are no longer 100% PURE SCYTHIAN/KHAZAR anymore.

Those are the facts. You can discard the B.S. bought-and-paid-for DNA tests.

The BIGGEST FRAUD is that the tests are really of MIZRAHIM "JEWS" WHO ARE MIDDLE EASTERN, NORTH AFRICAN, and SOUTHERN ARABIAN. They are being falsely portrayed as DNA tests of ASHKENAZIM and SEPHARDIM.

The appellation MIZRAHI is from MISR, the Assyro-Babylonian appellation for ancient Egypt. MISR=TWO STATES. In Old Hieratic (the native Egyptian language), it was TA-WY (TWO LANDS): TA-DESHRET(RED LAND) & TA-KHEMET(BLACK LAND). It was in reference to the reddish desert of Upper Egypt and the blackish SILT of Lower Egypt.

ANY MIZRAHI "JEW" WILL ALWAYS MAKE THE DISTINCTION THAT THEY ARE NOT ASHKENAZIM. I KNOW SOME PERSONALLY. They are quite adamant in this ethnic distinction. So don't pull any B.S. about this DNA test crap.

Who conducted these tests?? Look at the organization that conducted the tests: The National Academy of Sciences...IT IS PRACTICALLY OWNED & FUNDED BY ZIONISTS.

This is their last, desperate attempt to legitimize an essentially ILLEGAL occupation of Palestine.

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Good find c_haiden. Hunt assaulted a Holocaust survivor and he is checked in at a mental health clinic. It's good to know these guys back up a guy who gets treatment for his mental health.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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Who said that the peanut gallery can speak up?

See, ALL you guys can do is make ad hominem attacks on the person...Since you cannot refute what the actual message of the person is about.

You should at least HEAR Hunt speak in his own voice to judge for yourself if those reports are justified. Remember the Randall Patrick McMurphy character in ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST?? Was he really crazy or the only SANE one in that asylum he was put in...?

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So you came out of the closet and reveal you are, SURPIRSE! A "Jew"...Whatever happened to being just plain AMERICAN

OMG are you a complete idiot or what!!! I was speaking rhetorically you moron. I am NOT a Jew although I wouldn't care either way. But I am actually a German/Irish/Norwegian.

Unless you are Native - no one is just plain American. Seriously!


And you don't believe in the DNA tests so please stop trying to "prove" them wrong through "logic." It isn't working.

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One of the crucial points of Eric Hunt's THE LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE, is that the so-called 6 "death camps" (all in Poland), were LIBERATED EXCLUSIVELY BY THE SOVIET COMMUNIST ARMY. An army which was totally controlled by Communist Khazars(i.e. Ashkenazi "Jews").

And since you did NOT bother to watch Eric Hunt's LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE, then you should get F___K out of this thread. You are no longer even serving your purpose. There is NOTHING more to be debated.

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what is so funny is that there is almost nobody on this thread. I think 6 people total actual commented at all, 3 of them to tell you and art how stupid you are. The original poster who is long gone and phil who made 3 comments.

Hmmmm, I would also like to go back and find out how many times you and art have asked everyone who disagrees with you to leave (but not really that interested). What does that say about your confidence in your belief if you keep wanting your debators to leave the debate. I find these debates interesting because if I am wrong people who see it will know that. if I am right people will see that also. but i don't feel any great need to beg my debate partner to quit. sounds too pathetic.

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Since you REFUSE to watch Eric Hunt's THE LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE or listen to his uploaded interview with Carolyn Yeager, you really have NO DEBATE. I don't know if that has sunk in to your moronic mind, yet. LOL

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I don't need to see his video. The premise is that Hunt denies the holocaust and says that Auschwitz was a nice place. I don't need to see the video to find HUGE holes in his argument. Originally, I didn't even begin this debate about either movie at all. It isn't necessary. In fact, Hunt's movie doesn't even talk about Dr. Shlomo Sand's hypothesis of the Jewish origins and we spent a large portion of time on JUST that.

Problems with HIS movie that I don't need to see to find

#1 - He uses a picture of British POW soldiers in soccer uniforms in Auschwitz.

problem - those same soldiers claim to have smelled the ovens and saw the treatment of the Jews as being different and horrific from them and they called it a hell hole.

#2 - He uses "survivor" accounts

problem - there are other "survivor" accounts that say differently (he can't prove that his survivors are less liars than the 10s of thousands of other survivors he says that are liars.

#3 - He has pictures

problem - he claims the Jews doctored their pictures but can't prove that his weren't doctored.

#4 - He says that Auschwitz was a nice place and there were no death camps.

problem - there were death camps for the populations that helped hide the Jews, such as Ravensbruck so he has to explain why the Germans killed people for hiding Jews but not the Jews themselves.

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You have pre-determined NOT to watch Eric Hunt's film based on some false critiques by clowns who are attempting to discredit his documentary by saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the Shoah Visual History Foundation interviewees have openly stated.

He has NOT used pictures of British POW's playing soccer. You must be confused with the John Huston B.S. propaganda piece from 1980: ESCAPE TO VICTORY (aka VICTORY).

IF YOU SAW THE DOCUMENTARY, HUNT DOES PROVE THAT EVEN HOLLYWOOD "JEWS" WERE EMPLOYED IN DOCTORING "HOLOCAUST ATROCITY" PHOTOS & FILMS. IN FACT, THERE IS ONE BRIEF CLIP WHICH CLEARLY SHOWS BILLY WILDER ACCIDENTALLY STEPPING IN FRONT OF CAMERA TO DIRECT ONE OF THESE STAGED SURVIVOR "ATROCITIES". HAD YOU ACTUALLY SEEN THE DOCUMENTARY, D-I-P-S-H-I-T, YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS.

How much longer do you intend to make a complete ass out of yourself???

SEE THE DOCUMENTARY. DON'T READ ABOUT IT...

FOR CHRISSAKES!

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He has NOT used pictures of British POW's playing soccer

no he used a British POW soccer team photo and even ARTGARDNER used it on this thread! Have YOU even seen it? Apparently not since I got the picture from HIS website.

http://sites.google.com/site/spielbergshoax/

it has eric hunt as the email address. whose site do YOU think it is?

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Now I see why you keep bringing up the British POW soccer team. Among the Ashkenazi "Jewish" survivors of Auschwitz...(And when I mean 'survivors', I mean those who didn't die from the typhus epidemic or starvation--not the FICTIONAL "mass gassings")...Talks about games between the POWs and the Ashkenazi "Jews". He fondly recalls how some of the Nazi SS officers also participated in these games. Some of the Ashkenazi "Jews" had callisthenics as part of their daily program at Auschwitz.

Watch this segment on YouTube, a-r-s-e-h-o-l-e...This is from one of the Auschwitz survivor's OWN MOUTH. If you have the balls to watch and listen...LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua_CgKIcbyM&NR=1

There is no business like Shoah business...LOL

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Who conducted these tests?? Look at the organization that conducted the tests: The National Academy of Sciences...IT IS PRACTICALLY OWNED & FUNDED BY ZIONISTS.

This is their last, desperate attempt to legitimize an essentially ILLEGAL occupation of Palestine


That has got to be the stupidest argument ever. You are saying that Ashkenazim Jews faked tests in 2010 in order to keep Israel as a country.

I would LOVE to see the website you get your information from. That ought to be a hoot of antiJewish/Zionist rants!

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It is HARDLY the "stupidest argument ever". It is the general, widely held public view in a great many places around the globe. Since our American media is virtually owned by the Zionists, we are not given the popular world opinion of Zionism in general.

We Americans could never be more unpopular around the world mainly due to our foreign policies orchestrated by these unpatriotic, un-American a-r-s-e-h-o-l-e-s below:

American / Isreali Dual Citizens Running the American Government

Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs – Lincoln Bloomfield
Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
White House Political Director – Ken Melman
National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
White House Speechwriter – David Frum
White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis

Daniel Kurtzer
Ambassador to Israel.

Cliff Sobel
Ambassador to the Netherlands.

Stuart Bernstein
Ambassador to Denmark.

Nancy Brinker
Ambassador to Hungary

Frank Lavin
Ambassador to Singapore.

Ron Weiser
Ambassador to Slovakia.

Martin Silverstein
Ambassador to Uruguay.

Brad Blakeman
White House Director of Scheduling.

Ben Shalom Bernanke
Chairman of the Federal Reserve

Adam Goldman
White House's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community.

Joseph Gildenhorn
Bush Campaign's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community. He was the DC finance chairman for the Bush campaign, as well as campaign coordinator, and former ambassador to Switzerland.

Dov Zakheim
Zakheim is an ordained rabbi and reportedly holds Israeli citizenship. Zakheim attended Jew's College in London and became an ordained Orthodox Jewish Rabbi in 1973. He was adjunct professor at New York's Jewish Yeshiva University. Zakheim is close to the Israeli lobby.

Zakheim is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and in 2000 a co-author of the Project for the New American Century's position paper, Rebuilding America's Defenses, advocating the necessity for a Pearl-Harbor-like incident to mobilize the country into war with its enemies, mostly Middle Eastern Muslim nations.

He was appointed by Bush as Pentagon Comptroller from May 4, 2001 to March 10, 2004. At that time he was unable to explain the disappearance of $1 trillion dollars. Actually, nearly three years earlier, Donald Rumsfeld announced on September 10, 2001 that an audit discovered $2.3 trillion was also missing from the Pentagon books. That story, as mentioned, was buried under 9-11's rubble. The two sums disappeared on Zakheim's watch. We can only guess where that cash went.

Despite these suspicions, on May 6, 2004, Zakheim took a lucrative position at Booz Allen Hamilton, one of the most prestigious strategy consulting firms in the world. One of its clients then was Blessed Relief, a charity said to be a front for Osama bin Laden. Booz, Allen & Hamilton then also worked closely with DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which is the research arm of the Department of Defense.

Judicial Inc's bio of Dov tells us Zakheim is a dual Israeli/American citizen and has been tracking the halls of US government for 25 years, casting defense policy and influence on Presidents Reagan, Clinton, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. Judicial Inc points out that most of Israel's armaments were gotten thanks to him. Squads of US F-16 and F-15 were classified military surplus and sold to Israel at a fraction of their value.

Jonathan Jay Pollard
Was an American-Israeli citizen who worked for the US government. He is well known because he stole more secrets from the U.S. than has any other spy in American history. During his interrogation Pollard said he felt compelled to put the "interests of my state" ahead of his own. Although as a U.S. Navy counter-intelligence specialist he had a top-secret security clearance, by "my state" he meant the state of Israel.

Literally tens of thousands of Americans holding U.S. passports admit they feel a primary allegiance to the state of Israel. In many instances, these Americans vote in Israeli elections, wear Israeli uniforms and fight in Israeli wars. Many are actively engaged both in the confiscation of Palestinian lands and in the Israeli political system. Three examples come to mind:

Rabbi Meir Kahane
Who founded the militant Jewish Defense League in the U.S. in the 1960s, then emigrated to Israel where, eventually, he was elected to the Knesset. Until he was shot and killed at one of his U.S. fund-raising rallies in 1990, the Brooklyn-born rabbi shuttled between Tel Aviv and New York, where he recruited militant American Jews for his activities in Israel against Palestinians. He claimed to be a "dual citizen" of America and Israel.

--------------------------

I suppose these DUAL U.S./Israeli "citizens" are the figment of the imagination of "anti-Jewish/Zionist" websites...

And to get back to the main topic, since you DID NOT bother to watch Eric Hunt's THE LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE, as artgardner2010 put it, what the HELL are you doing debating here on this thread?? Your input has reached its limit of value. Now, you are just some MORON fruitlessly and pointlessly going back-and-forth.

GET LOST...

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Again - the true sign of an antisemitic is one who can name all the Jews in power "running" the government but couldn't do the same for any other ethnic group at times in history. Ethnic Englishmen during the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Ethnic Germans during WWI, WWII.

And to get back to the main topic, since you DID NOT bother to watch Eric Hunt's THE LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE, as artgardner2010 put it, what the HELL are you doing debating here on this thread?? Your input has reached its limit of value. Now, you are just some MORON fruitlessly and pointlessly going back-and-forth.

Again, suggesting I leave. Worried?

I came because Art has been spamming message boards all over IMB with his stupid link to Eric Hunt. This was the only thread that actually discussed it because all the others simply mocked him or ignored him (when his posts weren't deleted for breaking spamming rules). People like you fascinate me and I am enjoying myself with finding out how your mind works.

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In order for there to be "anti-Semitism" there has to be "Semitism"...Or did you forget this rudimentary rule from your days in schooling???

Also, the very term "anti-Semitism" is a MISNOMER because Ashkenazi "Jews" ARE NOT SEMITIC AND NEVER WERE.

If artgardner2010 has been mocked or ignored, it is because some people are in general IGNORANT and INDOCTRINATED with stupidity.

Me worried? Hardly...LOL

It is just that you are no longer bringing anything to this debate worthwhile...ESPECIALLY, SINCE YOU REFUSE TO WATCH ERIC HUNT'S DOCUMENTARY...And continue to comment and critique through your uninformed A-S-S...ROFL

How can anyone LOGICALLY argue or debate something they haven't even seen??

You don't see a problem with this?? You would be LAUGHED OUT OF TOWN in any formal debate session, if you kept claiming that the very subject matter you are debating has NOT BEEN VIEWED BY YOU. You wouldn't even QUALIFY to debate...LOL

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How can anyone LOGICALLY argue or debate something they haven't even seen??


Says the man who 3 days ago got offended by a quote from his own post saying that Auschwitz had all these nice amenities (I believe you said you were quoting a comment from someone else). Until he found out that Eric Hunt was the person he was quoting and now all of a sudden - viola, Auschwitz has all these nice amenities. So apparently YOU haven't seen the video either or you would have claimed that quote for yourself.

"anti-Semitism" is a MISNOMER because Ashkenazi "Jews" ARE NOT SEMITIC AND NEVER WERE.

Again, this is only true is you believe the Jews control everything and falsified DNA research to show that they were more closely related to middle easterners then to Europeans.

Which is up there with falsifying moon landings, 9/11 truthers, and Obama birthers.

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Now you are playing word games. Playing around with semantics. Only a pathetic loser tries this when all else fails. The quote about Auschwitz was copy-pasted from the YouTube site where Eric Hunt's THE LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE is uploaded, btw.

And I have seen it 4 times already. Not to mention that I have heard Hunt's interview by Carolyn Yeager twice.

Your game plan is typical of Zionist ideologists: keep running around in circles in a verbiage war of attrition, hoping an unintentional slip here or there occurs, then pounce upon it to thoroughly discredit all that has been presented.

You stated that you are German/Irish/Norwegian, but you could be lying or telling only the partial truth. You definitely have some Ashkenazim Zionist in you, if not genetically, then in your mentality. No goyim would go to this length to utterly embarass or humiliate themself and have their ass handed to them this many times.

And another clever psychological ploy is the occasional tossing of the "conspiracy theorist" nutjob scenario by mentioning falsified moon landings, 9/11 Truthers, and Obama birthers. Nice try, cabron.

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Again, as I tried to politely explain to Art - Hunt's entire premise is based upon saying that his "survivors" are telling the truth and all the other "survivors" are lying. I am not sure how Hunt creates an entire documentary claiming 10s of thousands of survivors (along with liberators and POWs who aren't Jews) are lying but HIS are telling the truth and expect ANYONE with common sense to believe him. Gee, I could probably find a few "survivors" hand them some scripts and come up with something this assine too.

Additionally the the British say otherwise. The POWs say that they were kept completely separate from the Jews. And the British have nothing to gain by telling their story about Auschwitz being a hell hole where they smelled the ovens.

Again, Hunt (and people like you) must also explain why non-Jews were sent to concentration camps for hiding Jews while Jews were sent to a nice (I think you called and enclosed community) labor camp such as Auschwitz. Again those people have nothing to gain from telling their story as being a hell hole.

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It is NOT really for Hunt or people such as myself to explain why there are contradicting statements regarding what actually went on at Auschwitz...

It is for the so-called "Holocaust survivors" of Auschwitz and the other labor camps who have to explain why some of their fellow survivors are offering a very different picture of what went on at those camps...

Those photographs of British POWs in German WW2 camps hardly depicts them being kept in a hellhole. They not only appear to be in good physical health but they are SMILING and in GOOD MORALE !

And again, you have NO business debating any further UNTIL YOU HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN ERIC HUNT'S "THE LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE" IN IT'S ENTIRETY.

What part of that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?? LOL

Haven't you EMBARASSED & HUMILIATED yourself enough? LOL

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Here is Hunt's problem - NOBODY of importance actually considers his few "survivors" of enough of an importance to actually explain anything to contradict them. He has so few "survivors" and his entire basis of "proof" is exactly the same that claims is unreliable for the other side. Only difference is the 10s of thousands vs. the less than a hunderd or so. Therefore, nobody takes you guys seriously enough to care.

Maybe you should read the actualy biographies of the British POWs to understand why they are smiling. I have already linked a few of the interviews already so I am not going to do it again.

I don't need to see the video. I read Hunt's own words. I have gotten as much if not more information from his own website.

What was it that you said.....?

He has NOT used pictures of British POW's playing soccer. You must be confused with the John Huston B.S. propaganda piece from 1980: ESCAPE TO VICTORY (aka VICTORY).

I never said he did - I always said he used a picture of the soccer TEAM.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that watching something is not necessary to getting the information necessary (in fact you have already argued that videos can be lies and manipulated). I know what is in the video based on HUNT'S own website. Sheeeesh, you are like a child throwing a tantrum. I have to do it exactly your way or it isn't good enough. Get over it.

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ROFL...

You really suffer from sort of mental deficieny...ADD or ADHD...And no offense or insult to others who also suffer from it...

The "survivors" who did speak of the rather different living conditions at Auschwitz cannot be dismissed at all. In fact, their recollections are the most crucial since they have brought forth information that was not generally known to the public. Not to mention that those "survivors" Hunt has included ARE FROM SPIELBERG'S SHOAH VISUAL HISTORY FOUNDATION.

And again you are trying to piece things together from Hunt's website. SEE THE ACTUAL FILM, IF YOU HAVE ANY BRAINS AT ALL. ROFL.

You are really becoming funny...LOL

Why do you think I am responding to you?? If I didn't find you amusing...LOL

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I will keep repeating myself so that you will understand how utterly ridiculous you sound claiming a Jewish conspiracy of DNA falsification. And if not you, then others will understand the mentality of people like you who are holocaust deniers and deny everything including science and blame everything on the Jews even to go so far as to accuse people who defend the holocaust as being "Zionist". First rule of debate for the losing, call names, or beg them to stop debating. First rule of debate for holocaust deniers, blame it all on the Jews.

As for you not knowing what was in the video here is your exact comment when I quoted you.

BTW those were not my own quotes you are throwing at me...If you revisit that post, it is some quotes from YouTube comments. However, I did find them interesting enough to post them here

You didn't claim them as your own; you didn't claim that Hunt's; you didn't claim them as a survivor's account - you blamed it on a random youtube commentor. If that quote was fact about Auschwitz, man-up and own it. Say that you believe that. Don't get your knickers in a twist when I quote you and blame some random person.

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LOL...You are nitpicking at straws...I stated YouTube comments. I didn't specify at the time that they were YouTube comments from PRECISELY the comment boxes from Eric Hunt's LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE upload. What point are you trying to make with this ridiculous word game...?? LOL

Because you have nothing substatial to offer of reflect upon, you pull crap like this...LOL

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Whatever, if it helps you sleep at night....I will concede.

You have seen the video and when you stated at the beginning of this thread that it was a hard labor camp you really meant that it was an enclosed community with theaters and kitchens and murals in babies rooms. And when you claimed no knowledge of the British POW soccer team you really meant, the ones who played with the Jews and SS guards

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LOL...Well, you know you ran around in so many circles with your responses, I couldn't help but get just a little confused...I am only human, buddy.

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Now, would you consider Winston Churchill a "Jewish" conspiracy theorist based on his famous 1920 article:

EXCERPTS from the 1920 article by Winston Churchill: Bolshevism is Jewish and Jews need homeland in Palestine--

International Jews

This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

Terrosist Jews

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews.

A home for the Jews (Zionism

Zionism offers the third sphere to the political conceptions of the Jewish race. In violent contrast to international communism, it presents to the Jew a national idea of a commanding character. It has fallen to the British Government, as the result of the conquest of Palestine, to have the opportunity and the responsibility of securing for the Jewish race all over the world a home and a centre of national life.

Of course, Palestine is far too small to accommodate more than a fraction of the Jewish race, nor do the majority of national Jews wish to go there. But if, as may well happen, there should be created in our own lifetime by the banks of the Jordan a Jewish State under the protection of the British Crown, which might comprise three or four millions of Jews..."

--Winston Churchill. Illustrated Sunday Herald. 8 February 1920.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

NOW, IT IS THE RT. HONOROUBLE WINSTON S. CHURCHILL HIMSELF THAT HAS USED THE WORD "TERRORIST JEWS" IN THIS ARTICLE WHICH IS PRESERVED IN THE HISTORICAL & JOURNALISTIC ARCHIVES...

WAS WINSTON CHURCHILL "ANTI-SEMITIC"???

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While I did not see this particular Churchhill speech I am not surprised about it at all. Antisemitism was rampant in England and the U.S. Even the British POW's admit to it and some refused to help the Jews because they felt they were getting what they deserved; while others were appalled at the murders, gassing and ovens. The Allies never went to war with Germany because their governments were specifically appalled at Hitler's hatred of the Jews. Even Roosevelt told his wife that he had no plans to turn his 'New Deal' into a 'Jew Deal' so he wasn't going to be letting a lot of Jewish refugees into America during WWII.

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The actual photocopy of the original Illustrated Sunday Herald article by Winston Churchill is available online. I have seen and read it online. It is much longer than what I posted. But one gets the picture of what Churchill was talking about.

As for your statement about President Roosevelt telling Eleanor that he had no plans to turn his 'New Deal' into a 'Jew Deal'. This sounds like tabloid rumour or gossip. I cannot accept that as any type of fact, unless it appears in an official article like Churchill's which is readily accessible online. Look it up for yourself:

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/siteinfo/newsround/zvb/zvb1.html

I believe that sovereignty.org is David Irving's website but an excerpt of it is also posted in Daniel Pipes' website:

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/165516

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[deleted]

You haven't seen The Last Days?

Then what the hell are you doing arguing here, you igoramous?

No wonder why you make no sense.


I came here all because of you, Art :) Your spamming and trolling posts on my regular boards finally got to me and I wanted a chance to discuss and this is the only place where people actually care to talk about it because everyone else is too busy mocking or ignoring you.

although the comments you are getting on Shindler's List are particularly entertaining.

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[deleted]

The "survivors" who did speak of the rather different living conditions at Auschwitz cannot be dismissed at all


Not only can they but they have been. Just as you, Hunt and other holocaust deniers dismiss everyone of the 10s of thousands and Jews and non-Jews alike who say that Ravensbruck, Auschwitz, etc. were death camps - so do most other people dismiss Hunt's "survivors".


SEE THE ACTUAL FILM, IF YOU HAVE ANY BRAINS AT ALL.

See now that is what is called a non-sequitur.


Why do you think I am responding to you?? If I didn't find you amusing...LOL

Oh good, we have something in common. Here I was worried we wouldn't find common ground :)

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Look, it is plain and simple:

The "Holocaust" revisionists are never going to be convinced otherwise...

And the Holohoax believers are going to be convinced that there was a "Holocaust" (="Fire Sacrifice")...

Let's leave it at that. On a closing note, the only main problem with the "surviviors" of the alleged "death camps" is that they couldn't settle on exactly how the so-called "mass killings" took place. In the early stages, after spewing out a few incredulous methods of these "mass exterminations", it was settled on the "Fire Sacrifice" (=HOLOCAUST) with live burnings in giant crematoriums (as Elie Wiesel wrote in his memoir NIGHT). Then, that was switched to "mass gassings" in gas chambers. That is the main problem: the major switch to the "gas chambers". Neither did Elie Wiesel mention it ONCE in his Holocaust memoir NIGHT, nor was it mentioned ONCE in any of the WW2 memoirs and autobiographies of Eisenhower, Churchill, or De Gaulle. The main problem lies in that the "Holocaust survivors" initally couldn't settle on ONE story on how the "mass killings" took place, before they finally settled on the "gas chamber" method.

And on a closing not on Adolf Hitler, some great allied lies and myths about Hitler:

1. That he persecuted Catholics --
Adolf himself was a Catholic , his wife Eva was Catholic as was his beloved mother. Mussolini & Italy and Ante Pavelic & Croatia, two of his strongest allies were Catholic countries as was Franco & Spain, whom he helped in their civil war.

2. That he persecuted all "Jews" --
150,000 Jews fought for Hitler in WW2: They included 2 field marshalls, 15 generals, (2 full generals, 8 lieut. generals, 5 major generals) 20 Jews were awarded the Iron Cross.

3. That he was a toy soldier --
As a soldier he was a hero in World War I and was awarded Germany's highest medal of honour, the Iron Cross not once but twice, the first when he captured 4 French soldiers single handed. It was December 1915 when Hitler was awarded the first Iron Cross. On the 4th August 1918 he was awarded his second Iron Cross (I don't yet know the exact details, but I believe it was for saving the lives of 3 or 4 fellow German soldiers), an exceptional achievement for a Corporal. In all he was awarded 6 medals.

Adios...

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Goodbye. Thank you for the spirited debate.

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Your welcome. For what its worth, I DO SINCERELY retract the name-calling.

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It is ok. I completely understand and apologize also.

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There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a historic revisionist & denyer!

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care to explain the difference.

cuz so far they may call themselves different things but their beliefs are the same. So maybe they are confused.

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Sure. Denyers believe it never happened & Revisionists think since numbers and facts were wrong in the past & called for correction, that some things are still not crystal clear. Stop tripping. I'm a Choctaw -Jew & the farthest thing from an Anti-Semite. Opinions aren't illegal on any topic.

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Wow! You sure are touchy. I simply asked for the difference and never said a thing about anyone being an anti-semite. Sheesh. The problem with the revisionists who I have talked to is that they believe the number to be down around the same as any other political group and that there was no anti-semetic component to Hitler's final solution. I am not sure how that truly differs from the deniers. Was is EXACTLY 6 million - probably not. But to argue that the British POWs were treated the same as the Jews in Auschwitz is NOT revisionism. It is just plain denying the truth.

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Sorry, not trying to be touchy... I just recently started siding with revisionist views.. not even entirely... mor elike understanding... so i guess it is touchy with myself... lol

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You have got ask why would a country like Germany turn on its own citizens who were not ethnically Germanic but Ashkenazim from Eastern Europe? NO COUNTRY IN CHRISITAN EUROPE embraced and welcomed the gradual immigration of Judean Ashkenazim as did Germany. As ethnic Germans, the Ashkenazim were NEVER more prospersous than they were in Germany. This is irrefutable historical FACT. What caused Germans to turn against these ethnic Germans?

When Germany was initially winning the first World War against France & England, U.S. "Jews" met with officials of France & England (who had control over the Middle East, especially Palestine) and proposed that they would lobby for America to enter WWI against the Germans...IF they would hand them Palestine so they could transform it into a Jewish State. "Jewish" Germans fully supported their American "cousins" in this endeavour in every which way, politically and financially. When the Germans finally found out about this at the Versailles treaty, that was the inception of the latent resentment against ethnic Germans (i.e. Ashkenazi Germans). When the National Socialist Party took power and espoused a mass emigration of Ashkenazi ethnic Germans, the powerful, influential Ashkenazis responded by BOYCOTTING all German businesses & exports not only in Europe, but internationally. In 1933, there was a New York Times headline that literally read 'JUDEA DECLARES WAR ON GERMANY'. This can be viewed online. The result of this highly effective boycott caused about SIX MILLION (note the numerical figure) Germans to be unemployed when German factories shut down operation. Most amazingly, the working class "Jewish" Germans were bailed out by "Jewish" owned banks, much like our unemployment insurance. However, ONLY "Jewish" Germans received this assistance. The REST OF GERMANY were down and out of work and went hungry. These aren't fairy tales. These are DOCUMENTED facts.

When Hitler shutdown the unions and RESURRECTED the German economy which EMPLOYED THOSE SIX MILLION GERMANS that were unemployed, he became their saviour. It was those UNEMPLOYED Germans who began to persecute the "Jewish" Germans, of whom NONE were starving or broke. Especially, when those of the working class "Jewish" Germans were the ONLY ONES getting supplemental funds from the "Jewish" owned banks when the rest of the Germans had very little. Hitler himself was a World War I veteran who won the Iron Cross for bravery and valour on the battlefield; he risked his life to save four fellow German soldiers in the trenches. Hitler was no "paper-hanging son-of-a-bitch". Yes, he did have theatrical flair in emulating the Caesars of ancient Rome, much like Fascist leader Mussolini. Unlike Mussolini, Hitler was truly BELOVED by his fellow Germans. Hitler was no more a "white supremacist" than any Britisher or White Anglo-Saxon Protestant North American. His thinking along those lines was a product of the times; at least Hitler was no double-standard hypocrite about it. Hitler did not initiate World War II by any means. He did his best to avoid all out war. These are documented facts, not our allied propaganda. Furthermore, it was what the Bolshevik Poles did to the German civilians at Danzig (their wholesale slaughter of 58,000 Germans in 1939) which forced Hitler to invade Poland. Hitler also came up with the world's very first national expressway concept called the Autobahn, as well as the 8-hour work day with overtime pay. Something we Americans ADOPTED. This is something that is not made public in the media, but can only be discovered through research as they are recorded only as footnotes in history. But they are preserved to be accessed by those who want to research all of this HISTORICITY.

Germans weren't a bunch of bipolar, split-personality people to suddenly turn on the Ashkenazi "Jewish" Germans, who had NEVER been better established within a European nation as they were in Germany. There WAS A REASON.

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Ahhh, so you are saying it was the Jews fault. Not bad! Was wondering when you would get around to it.

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Just in case you get the wrong impression that I am some "Neo-Nazi" for pragmatically conveying a more realistic, balanced analysis of Adolf Hitler, here are some rather well-known people who also had similar thoughts:

[copy-paste]

"After visiting these two places (Berchtesgaden and the Eagle's lair on Obersalzberg), you can easily understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambitions for his country which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world, but he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and in the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made." --John F. Kennedy 'Prelude To Leadership - The European Diary of John F. Kennedy - Summer, 1945. Regnery Publishing, Inc. Washingon, DC. p 74

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"I have always said that if Great Britain were defeated in war I hoped we should find a Hitler to lead us back to our rightful position among the nations." (Winston Churchill in The London Times, Monday, November 7, 1938)

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"Yes, Heil Hitler. I, too, say that because he is truly a great man." --David Lloyd George, Prime Minister, UK

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"It is not the Germany of the first decade that followed the war- broken, dejected and bowed down with a sense of apprehension and impotence. It is now full of hope and confidence, and of a renewed sense of determination to lead its own life without interference from any influence outside its own frontiers. One man has accomplished this miracle. He is a born leader of men. A magnetic and dynamic personality with a single-minded purpose, a resolute will and a dauntless heart."

--David Lloyd George, Prime Minister, UK The Daily Express 9-17-36

[end copy-paste]
----------

Now do President JFK, PMs Churchill and Lloyd-George come across as "Neo-Nazis" for praising Hitler??

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First off - Hitler was an amazing leader. He LEAD his people to atrocities that most humans can not fathom! Doesn't make him a good guy just a great leader.

Secondly, the Kennedy father was a notorious anti-semite. He had no problem with Hitler killing all the Jews and said as much. I wouldn't expect his son in 1945 to think much differently

Third, Churchill was being sarcastic because Hitler had just made a speech declaring Churchill a warmongerer.

Forth - Lloyd's comments came before Hitler showed his true colors. Because again, Hitler was a good leader. By 1940 he completely denounced that idea and helped get rid of Chamberlain because of his appeasement policies and usher in Churchill.

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[deleted]

Thanks for the info guys, it's been interesting reading so far!

I got another question if anyone would care to answer, I was wondering what do revisionists believe the reason is for the Holocaust being a hoax? Who is gaining from it? I don't mean directors who make money out of portraying it in movies, I mean after the War ended, what was the purpose of staging a holocaust?

I've heard some people say the Jews profit from it, but from what I've seen of the world theres still massive anti semitism despite the holocaust, so i don't see how that can be it.

Answers appreciated!

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Most revisionist believe it helps keep the money flowing from the U.S. to Israel. That without the money and the "high profile" Jews in the U.S. government Israel would be left to fend for herself in the middle east and then the "chips would fall were they may," i.e. the surrounding nations would destroy the country completely since they feel it has no right to exist.

If the holocaust had never happened, the leading United Nations countries wouldn't have felt guilted into giving Israel land in Palestine. Land that was at the time under the control of Britain and occupied by Jews and Palestinians. It has been war ever since. But war that must be funded.

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[deleted]

You have made my day. After weeks of trolling and spamming to the point of removal, I have actually gotten you to say something beyond a cut and paste of the same crap that gets you laughed at/mocked/ignored on every board it appears on.

And yet you still managed to come up with nothing new or intelligent. Still I consider it a productive day.

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[deleted]

Dozens!!!! Really!!!!

wow all your work of the last 10+ days and you got dozens of people out of all of that. Well, there are huge segments of the population that don't believe we landed on the moon so "dozens" sounds like a fair number.

Few people are as stupid as you, to defend The Last Days,

Says the man who has posted the same post more than 50 times on dozens of boards and threads and doesn't get anymore of a response than getting laughed at.

But I am not defending The Last Days. Never have been, cuz I have never seen the movie. I started by refuting Salzender's ideas of Jews not being Semitic. I am now refuting Hunt who claims to have found "survivors" that call it a pleasant fun filled camp. Hmmmmmm, seems like survivors are crawling out of the wood work now, aren't they. Who to believe? Such a tough choice. Guess I will have to believe Hunt's own photographic picture of British soldiers. They must be telling the truth because Hunt uses them as "evidence." and they say he is wrong.

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one last thing

There isn't actually a really good reason the revisionist can come up with for why the several hundred admittedly antisemitic British POWs who were housed at Auschwitz would say that they smelled the stench from the ovens and the smoke from the chimneys and saw the horrific treatment of the Jews. Or why they say that they were also mistreated and half starved but still managed to get Red Cross parcels while the Jews in the other half of the camp were purposely starved to death.

So what they gained by lying hasn't yet been answered.

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It's nice to see that someone else has joined this fight with me. These revisionists have not backed up any of their claims with solid proof and continually deny the proof we give them by saying it was a lie.

I don't know why they insist on believing the Holocaust is a lie. Maybe they're from Germany and can't accept that their country would actually do that to people. Or maybe they're really anti-Semetic (use of the word "jewry" doesn't help their case). Who knows, but they're obviously misinformed.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.

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[deleted]

fine. admit that Hunt uses pictures British POW's who claim that Auschwitz was a death camp hell hole for Jews and we will call it even.

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[deleted]

This is really interesting reading both sides of the argument in such detail!!

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[deleted]

I saw the photo and linked the article in the UK that talked about the team members what what THEY said they saw. Not what Hunt claims they saw. The team members specifically said they smelled the ovens and saw the killings of the Jews. and they talk about why the photo looks like it does. Because they were in a seperate camp from the Jews and early on they were treated differently with access to Red Cross packages.

So NO it doesn't speak for itself. The words of the survivors do a better job of it.

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[deleted]

I read enough of Eric Hunt's crap ideas to know that he uses British soldiers to bolster his belief the the camp was a nice place. And yet the words of the British soldiers say the exact opposite of what he does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Dodd_(Auschwitz_survivor)

He even wrote a book

See this is Eric's and your biggest problem. He uses "survivor accounts". And yet there has been literally 10s of thousands of American Soldiers, British POWs and other camp survivors who say the exact opposite. Thousands of books written in the last 60+ years. He claims the photos were doctored or the camp was changed by the Soviets and yet people can make the exact same claim about him. That the pictures were pre 1942. Or of the POW camps.

So no I don't intend to watch his fakumentary. I also don't intend to watch The Last Days either because I don't need to see it to know that the Holocaust happened.

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You can watch THE LAST DAYS OF THE BIG LIE in parts on Youtube -
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyMVWVBmGVo
Or the whole documentary is here -
http://codoh.com/library/document/1531/
The claim that anyone who questions the holocaust is a neo nazi or white supremacist is not true as there are Jews who are holocaust revisionists. David Cole made the following documentary -
http://codoh.com/library/document/1001/
There is a thread about Jewish revisionists here -
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6912

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