7.9???
Everytime I come on this board I can't understand as to why it has a 7.9 it should at least have an 8.8 or higher considering the films they rate so high on IMDB that are totally undeserving. I wonder if anyone else agrees?
shareI totally agree. But a 7.9 rating surprises the hell out of me. Especially since this masterpiece has a knack for alienating viewers.
Last Films Seen:
Iron Man(2008)- 8/10
I Think I Love My Wife(2007)- 3/10
I'm surprised to see the film has such a low rating compared to the television series. Its as if people prefer it to end in an uplifting manner, as oppose to delving deeper into the ideas that it sets forth.
Last film seen: Pan's Labyrinth 7/10
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I'm surprised to see the film has such a low rating compared to the television series
I'm surprised that it even has a high rating.
Its as if people prefer it to end in an uplifting manner, as oppose to delving deeper into the ideas that it sets forth
It's kinda hard to find those people. But the series ending does have many fans.
Last Films Seen:
Iron Man(2008)- 8/10
I Think I Love My Wife(2007)- 3/10 share
Haha, pretty much what this guy said!
To build on that, this movie (as with nearly every anime movie based on a anime series) was a disappointment on so many levels that it deserves a lower rating. At the most it should be in the 6's, and that's being generous. The crazy over-the-top second half and the lack of resolution ALONE ruin this movie, not to mention the levels of pretentiousness were through the roof, yet some people people actually fell for by thinking the movie was being "deep".
"I am an apprentice wizard, not a pack mule! Oh very well but make it quick."
If EoE isn't deep, then I guess I don't know the meaning of the latter. It's one of those films that can be talked about over and over again and new ideas will pop up each time. It truly is timeless in each and every aspect.
If you don't feel the same way, that's fine, but saying the second half is crazy over the top and also calling it pretentious is just plain stupid and you have no *beep* idea what you're talking about. Taste isn't something you can acquire, but neither is a functioning brain.
If EoE isn't deep, then I guess I don't know the meaning of the latter.
Probably.
It's one of those films that can be talked about over and over again and new ideas will pop up each time.
Oh it'll be talked about alright, just not necessarily in the way that you're thinking.
If you don't feel the same way, that's fine, but saying the second half is crazy over the top and also calling it pretentious is just plain stupid and you have no *beep* idea what you're talking about. Taste isn't something you can acquire, but neither is a functioning brain.
I don't even think the writers knew what they was talking about when writing the script, but I do when I criticize it. I'll repeat: it was crazy, it was over the top, and last but not least, it was pretentious. Only someone with a functioning brain can see that, instead of falling for it, and it takes a functioning brain to recognize bad taste.
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it was crazy
Ok.
it was over the top
When?
it was pretentious
What "artistic" film isn't though?
Only someone with a functioning brain can see that, instead of falling for it, and it takes a functioning brain to recognize bad taste.
How are people falling for it in any way? If you don't like something, then you don't really think about it at all. For example, I disliked LoTR. It's cheesy, it's unintentionally funny and I don't agree with some directional choices. If I would think like you do, I would say that people fell for it simply because it is the most decent film adaptation yet to one of the most popular books of all time. Do I have the right to do so?
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Ok.
Glad we agree.
When?
The entirety of the second half. The first half was actually decent. Not good, but enjoyable enough.
What "artistic" film isn't [pretentious] though?
Films and shows who's messages and symbolisms are integrated more seamlessly with the story, and not sticking out like sore thumbs with no real discussion or development, and therefore no real reason to be there in the first place.
How are people falling for it in any way? If you don't like something, then you don't really think about it at all. For example, I disliked LoTR. It's cheesy, it's unintentionally funny and I don't agree with some directional choices. If I would think like you do, I would say that people fell for it simply because it is the most decent film adaptation yet to one of the most popular books of all time. Do I have the right to do so?
I personally don't mind if you didn't like the Lord of the Rings films. I have friends who don't like them. But your reasons for not liking Lord of the Rings, while valid, are a far cry for why I don't like End of Evangelion. Many people haven't seen the Ralph Bakshi films or even read the books, and there are those who've read the books and praised the changes in the films. So saying people fell for it simply because it is the most decent film adaptation yet is actually quite a weak counter-argument, and doesn't really apply here, where as I've seen many times people praising pretentious films without understanding them simply because they didn't understand them, and assumed they were deep and profound. This is most notable among the Nolanites.
Also, I personally feel that pity for Ano's history is a root for people's praise for this film and the show. While my heart goes to anyone who suffers depression, that doesn't give them a free pass when making something inspired by what they're going through. If it isn't good, I'm going to call them out. Some viewers might also be going, or have gone through depression, and might relate to him, but otherwise I think pity-praise has something to do with it. I'm not necessarily saying you're one of those people, I'm just voicing out a suspicion
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So saying people fell for it simply because it is the most decent film adaptation yet is actually quite a weak counter-argument
Agreed.
I personally feel that pity for Ano's history is a root for people's praise for this film and the show.
Personally, I couldn't care less about his depression. Entertainment is entertainment and it shouldn't be influenced by other sources. The Evangelion series suffered from bad animation and some weird interactions because of budget problems, but I somehow managed to look past that and thought it was pretty good by the end of the series. That, of course, until I watched the original last 2 episodes. And then I watched Evangelion, which changed everything.
That having been said, the Evangelion series is definitely not one of the best anime series of all time; far from it, actually. However, I do think that watching it at least once in your lifetime doesn't hurt. You rarely see a cast of *beep* up characters with *beep* up backstories carry a 25 episode series (since the plot is actually pretty basic during the first half) - and they're certainly interesting.
End of Evangelion, on the other hand, truly is one of the best things I've ever seen. I don't know what it is that makes it appealing to me, but it just works. It's definitely not for everyone, but completely dismissing what it is, is kind of exaggerated.
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You rarely see a cast of *beep* up characters with *beep* up backstories carry a 25 episode series (since the plot is actually pretty basic during the first half) - and they're certainly interesting.
I certainly liked the idea, and the show carried it fairly well, but I still think its religious and psychological themes could've been developed better. The religious aspect was there for no real reason, and the psychological aspect came out of nowhere and took up the last third of the show. It was some trippy stuff, but it felt forced to me.
The Evangelion series suffered from bad animation and some weird interactions because of budget problems
I definitely noticed that, but while you decided to look past that and see what they show was trying to be, I decided to leave out speculation and took it at face value: A show with an ambitious premise, but fair execution that came up short. Does this show have potential? Sure. Could a bigger budget and better relations behind the scenes have improved it? Perhaps. But that's wishful thinking to me, and I won't waste my time with that. There's still taking into consideration how skilled the writers and directors actually are. Considering the direction the Rebuild of Eva films are heading, I'm inclined to think that it's not entirely the studio's fault that Evangelion ended on a bad note with me, or that its ambition on tackling all those themes ultimately fell short. Hence, I feel like Ano is like an Asian Damon Lindelof; a screenwriter with many interesting ideas, but can't seem to intertwine them into a cohesive story and doesn't seem to know how to end the story and instead it sort of just trails off.
I don't know what it is that makes it appealing to me, but it just works. It's definitely not for everyone, but completely dismissing what it is, is kind of exaggerated.
And this is where you and I heavily disagree, since I think that praising it for what its not is exaggerated. Even you don't know why you like it, which only supports my argument that people have superficial reasons for liking this movie. If you could explain what it is you like about it, maybe you just like the trippy visuals, or just appreciate all the themes its tackling, then maybe I could understand and respect your difference of opinion even though I don't agree with it. Me? I need reasons for trippy visuals, religious symbolism and psychological themes. Putting them there for the sake of it, regardless of how pretty they might look, takes points off in my book.
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The religious aspect was there for no real reason, and the psychological aspect came out of nowhere and took up the last third of the show.
Ano himself stated that the religious imagery was put there for no actual reason, but that was during his depressive state so I can't really take that for granted. The psychological aspect is the reason why the series is popular in the first place (starting with episode 14), so saying it came out of nowhere would mean dismissing the whole series.
Considering the direction the Rebuild of Eva films are heading, I'm inclined to think that it's not entirely the studio's fault that Evangelion ended on a bad note with me, or that its ambition on tackling all those themes ultimately fell short.
Haven't watched them yet and don't really plan to anytime soon. I've heard complaints from fans of the original series about the rebuild series, but I'd have to watch them myself to decide.
Even you don't know why you like it, which only supports my argument that people have superficial reasons for liking this movie. If you could explain what it is you like about it, maybe you just like the trippy visuals, or just appreciate all the themes its tackling, then maybe I could understand and respect your difference of opinion even though I don't agree with it.
I believe that anyone who has ever questioned their existence, or have felt depressed at one point of their lives are going to relate with Evangelion - film and series.
I like the visuals, the dialogue, the pain the characters go through, which eventually leads to their demise; the fact that it leaves room for interpretation without being completely senseless or feeling forced (at least in my opinion), that infamous ending, the fact that it's edgy mostly in a psychological manner without being too pornographic or gory (which is what is considered edgy nowadays)...
I need reasons for trippy visuals, religious symbolism and psychological themes. Putting them there for the sake of it, regardless of how pretty they might look, takes points off in my book.
Depends on what you mean by trippy. It's a fantasy film and not everything has to make sense. Adding fantastical elements out of place or proper introduction is annoying most of the time, but in my opinion everything in EoE does make sense.
It's the end of the world after all. Instead of the usual destructive imagery we see in most sci-fi films, we were shown something different in EoE. Of course it isn't going to make sense if you look at the scientific side of the story only.
Why do you need any explanation for the religious and psychological themes of the series? The religious part is mostly depicted in the imagery rather than talked about anyway. If someone's going to make a show about aliens and the end of the world, then religion should play a part somewhere.
The psychological themes are obviously there because the main characters aren't psychologically stable.
Also, as far as I know, trippy imagery doesn't necessarily have to make sense, although I don't personally find the scenes in EoE trippy at all. They're sort of weird, yes, but not trippy.
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Haven't watched them yet and don't really plan to anytime soon. I've heard complaints from fans of the original series about the rebuild series, but I'd have to watch them myself to decide.
The first two films aren't that bad. The first film is a mostly faithful recreation of the first six episodes, while the second one is when it starts to take more liberties while still not being that bad in my opinion. You might notice that the writing seems simpler, more accessible for a mainstream audience. The new character, Mari Makinami, had potential and I found her kinda likable, but I read that behind the scenes that the writers struggled with what the hell to do with her.
And it shows in the third movie. Despite a promising trailer at the end of the second one, NONE of those scenes appear in the third movie. The has a major time-skip with little time to explain, making it feel jarring, Mari has no development at all, and all we get is a bore of a movie after two stupid action set-pieces in the beginning, the first of which was quite difficult to watch considering the way it was choreographed. Kaworu is given more screen time, but his buildup ended up with little payoff, and his role in the third movie felt hollow and wasn't expanded upon nearly enough. The fourth film hasn't come out yet, but I expect no better than the original ending to the series, or End of Evangelion.
I like the visuals, the dialogue, the pain the characters go through, which eventually leads to their demise; the fact that it leaves room for interpretation without being completely senseless or feeling forced, that infamous ending, the fact that it's edgy mostly in a psychological manner without being too pornographic or gory
I agree with the first part of this section, though for me, it applies to the series as a whole. The movie, to me, caught them in a moment where there really is no progression for them as characters, but instead more of a limbo state where they're just there to appear for the sake of the plot, hence when the ending came about, I was on the side of those who were left disappointed and empty. I'm not necessarily asking for a happy ending (though I still welcome it after all the characters went through), but I do expect closure, which I feel I did not get. The whole "leave it up to interpretation" sounds like a cop-out to disguise poor writing.
Depends on what you mean by trippy.....but in my opinion everything in EoE does make sense.......The psychological themes are obviously there because the main characters aren't psychologically stable.
We get a montage of scenes that seem to show Shinji's unstable mental state, but otherwise don't offer anything new. They go as far as to show a naked Rei and Shinji talking to eachother (at one point with Rei cowgirling on top of Shinji) to a scene of real-life Japan (I assume, haven't seen the film in a little while), all so that Shinji could come to the conclusion that he is alone and that everyone should die. This all could have been done more cleanly and coherently. I don't mind being bold and abstract, so long as you have the skill to execute that, which I don't think Ano had now or with the Rebuild films.
And by trippy, in this case I mean an acid trip, which I felt I was on.
The psychological themes were a 180 degree change, and seem to completely replace the religous ones. Had the shift felt more seamless, or had the show indicated earlier on on what kind of show it wanted to be, then I'd probably be ok. Instead, the show felt like it was trying too hard.
Why do you need any explanation for the religious and psychological themes of the series? If someone's going to make a show about aliens and the end of the world, then religion should play a part somewhere.
Yes it should, but a part that feels like it belongs and actually goes somewhere, maybe make interesting comparisons to religion and science, and contemplations about our existence in the universe, and if Religion should even still be viable under these circumstances. I don't recall any of that happening, we just have aliens called angels because the first one kind of looked like a Seraph, and when they die they leave cross-like explosions, which looks visually cool, but after a while I need more substance than style.
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We get a montage of scenes that seem to show Shinji's unstable mental state, but otherwise don't offer anything new. They go as far as to show a naked Rei and Shinji talking to eachother (at one point with Rei cowgirling on top of Shinji) to a scene of real-life Japan (I assume, haven't seen the film in a little while), all so that Shinji could come to the conclusion that he is alone and that everyone should die. This all could have been done more cleanly and coherently. I don't mind being bold and abstract, so long as you have the skill to execute that, which I don't think Ano had now or with the Rebuild films.
And by trippy, in this case I mean an acid trip, which I felt I was on.
Just gonna chime in here: Those scenes take place during Human Instrumentality. Thus, the characters are all integrated into a single hive being, and are able to interact with eachother inside that hive mind and bypass the Hedgehog's Dilemma which was central to the social conflicts in the TV series. They do mean something, and they are coherent. This is the climax of the film, the ultimatum Shinji is faced with: Does he want to save or destroy humanity? Shinji is a character who suffers from severe social issues, confronting conflict by retreating into his own little shell. Thus, he has a substantial fear of social interaction. These internal sequences are the characters both bringing repressed thoughts and emotions to the surface, as well as arguing for one decision or another. When Shinji rejects instrumentality, it represents his final realization and the overall message of the show: Without the bad there is no good. Human interaction can be painful for him and for others, but that is the very thing that makes it worthwhile.
The psychological themes were a 180 degree change, and seem to completely replace the religous ones. Had the shift felt more seamless, or had the show indicated earlier on on what kind of show it wanted to be, then I'd probably be ok. Instead, the show felt like it was trying too hard.
The show never had religious themes to begin with. The whole idea of Angels and the Christian imagery was just to keep a consistent aesthetic and provide a catalyst to both psychologically analyze the characters and convey the series' ultimate message.
Yes it should, but a part that feels like it belongs and actually goes somewhere, maybe make interesting comparisons to religion and science, and contemplations about our existence in the universe, and if Religion should even still be viable under these circumstances. I don't recall any of that happening, we just have aliens called angels because the first one kind of looked like a Seraph, and when they die they leave cross-like explosions, which looks visually cool, but after a while I need more substance than style.
That's a very superficial analysis of the show. I'd suggest you look a bit deeper before completely writing a series off. share