MovieChat Forums > Lagaan: Once Upon a Time in India (2001) Discussion > did it even deserve to go to the oscars

did it even deserve to go to the oscars

posted 20 years ago by saatvik
42 replies | jump to latest

I really think that movie did not rdeserve to go to oscars. It was a good movie ok. But i dont think it deserved the attention it got. We have far better Indian movies that did deserve an oscar.

[–] ink786 20 years ago

Um... It definately did.. This film was realistic, and everything was perfect in the film... From the acting, to the cinematography, to the music and direction. Despite the long film, it was worth it...

[–] new_pa2 20 years ago

" It definately did.. This film was realistic, and everything was perfect in the film... From the acting, to the cinematography, to the music and direction. Despite the long film, it was worth it... "

No! NOOOOOOOOO it wasnt and didn't ,are all of the movies you seen sucky Teen Hollywood movies and Bollywood movies,Grrrrrrrr ^_^.
Realistic my arse,a REAL "ruthless" BRITISH soldier would have killed them on spot, or whipped them in front of everyone to show them who's boss ,and B slapped his sister and locked her in her room with soldiers on watch for betraying him.Now that's more realistic.

[–] 20 years ago

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[–] aruvielle 19 years ago

"REAL 'ruthless' BRITISH soldier would have killed them on spot, or whipped them in front of everyone to show them who's boss ,and B slapped his sister and locked her in her room with soldiers on watch for betraying him.Now that's more realistic."

well maybe the fact that he didnt do that proves that the character was not meant to be all that ruthless, but simply highly unfair and prejudiced. dont forget, he had superiors who would not approve of such "ruthless" behavior (some of them "really" didnt out of fear of how they will look in the eyes of other democratic superpowers). what you mentioned there is what i believe is the exact opposite of "real." it is the most one-dimensional, non-complex cookie-cutter villification of the "imperial white man." nothing "real" about that.

[–] new_pa2 19 years ago

I will let that respose go...

[–] Tomatish 10 years ago

(some of them "really" didnt out of fear of how they will look in the eyes of other democratic superpowers)

You forget, this is set in the Victorian Era.

[–] masterkage 20 years ago

I really dont think that it comes much better than this is bollwood. First of all there are really no other films in Bollywood that have this high level of production values.

Some of the Bengali films are very well done and are without the fluff of the bollwood films but nothing really in the last few years have been oscar worthy.

I hope you dont think devdas should have gone because that was a total mess.

[–] nikhilkubrick 20 years ago

I think it should have been Asoka for that year ... Legend of Bhagat Singh for 2002 and Pinjar for the last year ... without the songs that is ...

[–] WoooFy 20 years ago

Asoka suxxx beyond all

[–] mikham 20 years ago

asoka i thought was a good film. each shot was visually rich, the acting was excellent and the direction and writing were spot on. the wo flaws were the sets and the songs. the songs were good, but probably generally werent needed and should have been left out.

i thought lagaan was an excellent film. well acted, well written, well shot, well directed. story was very different (for indian films) and the songs were excellent. i thought they fit in well. my personal preference for the oscars would have been Dil Chahta Hai. it completely destroyed the mould of bollywood film making. songs fit in pretty well as well. either that or monsoon wedding.

in 2002, i would have sent legend of bhagat singh or chandni bar (i think it was 2002, might have been 2001.) possibly company too.

2003: india didnt send any. i would have said pinjar cos it was so damn good (munnabhai maybe if the ending wasnt so poorly handled in relation to the rest of the film.)

2004: well there are certainly a few choices i hope. veer-zaara, ab tumhare hawale watan sathiyo, black, swades, kisna all piling up at the end of the year, with the rising (i think this is meant ot be out in december.) i hope they dont release them too late, cos then whoever choose the film for the oscars will choose it before they even come out.

[–] DonJuan54 19 years ago

i think if Monsoon Wedding went instead of Lagaan, it would've stood a better chance of winning the oscar. i think everyone knew Lagaan would've won the oscar because it is just so o.t.t.

[–] mikham 19 years ago

I think you mean everyone knew it wouldn't have won, rather than would have won.

But Monsoon Wedding would probably have got nominated atleast as well. It was a fantastic film. I don't think it would have won though. The other films No Man's Land (which did win) and Amelie (which I think was the favourite) I looked and realised they had done alot better in the critics awards and other precursors before.

It's because I like you that I don't want to be with you. It's a very complicated emotion.

[–] MrNeurosis 19 years ago

In "Amelia" and "No Mans land" you didnt see main characters dancing and singing or running around trees with hoards of dancers in back ground every 15-20 minutes? do you?so no wonder Lagaan didnt win.

And i remember the very same year LORD OF THE RINGS swept the Oscars and one of the cast members from Lagaan commented that LOTR is nothing but english version of Chandrakanta ( a stupid indian TV show which was supposed to be fantasy but ended beign a hilarious comedy) lol..it was so damn funny that i had tears in my eyes...lol.. anyways Lagaan stood nowhere in comparison to other foregin language movies nominated same year it was obvious, very obvious that it wasnt going to win any oscar.

[–] mikham 19 years ago

First of all, its Amelie, not Amelia.

Second, Chicago won Best Picture over four films that did not involve the main characters singing and dancing, so that logic kind of goes out the window.

Thirdly, from a couple of posts of yours that I have read you dont seem to have any real reasoning for criticising, just something along the lines of 'Its a bad film because I say so.'

Sorry for picking on your posts slightly, but they just seem rather troll-ish.

[–] MrNeurosis 19 years ago

yeah CHICAGO did win but you know why?? because CHICAGO is a musical and so was MOULIN ROUGE (which was a nice movie too)and in Hollywood musicals songs are part of the story and they are not there just to fill plot holes or to make front row audience happy. Tell me one song which was absolutely necessary in Lagaan??

And how many hollywood musicals release every year?? except for Grease and West Side Story how many notable and popular colored musicals you know?? Its a rare thing for hollywood and yeah so it does deserve the recognition it got. But its pathetic isn't it?? the country which has been making mnusicals for 50 years still get whipped by the western musicals?

I am sorry too but close minded audience will never understand that its QUALITY and not quantity which matters and the day Indian film industry learns that we will win oscars till then.. keep dreaming.

And wow thanks for spell check i am sure you are a better person then me now. :)
Also i dont need to write 100 lines everytime explaining why some hindi movies suck so bad which i already did in KAL HO NAA HO board.

[–] mikham 19 years ago

Actually I remember reading your post in the Kal Ho Naa Ho board and I agreed with alot of it. I siad so in my reply.

It wasnt really a spell-check thing, it was just that I saw this really bad film a while ago, called Amelia or it had Amelia somewhere in the name, hence correcting you. Sorry if I didn't make that clear but Amelie is an absolutely brilliant film and should not be confused for this other film I was thinking of.

Some of the songs in Chicago were not necessary, such as Cell Block Tango.

Anyway, its not about whether songs are necessary or not, its about whether they are well used, and in Lagaan I thought they were, although admittedly they werent necessary. But just imagine if they had replaced the song Mitwa with dialogue of Bhuvan and Gauri trying to convinvce other villagers to join the cricket team. It would have added alot of time, wouldnt have been as effective, and would have just been boring.

I agree, most songs are really badly used in Indian films, simply as time-fillers, and are almost always unnecessary. But I think Lagaan used songs in a much better way than an average Indian film, and that's what stood out. None of that stupid item number nonesense.

Too many filmmakers try and fit a story around the songs, whereas in Hollywood, the songs are put into the story.

Lastly, I'm sorry if my post seemed rather cynical, it wasnt meant to be. I just thought you made some blanket statements.

[–] abhinavspeak 19 years ago

I am not a big fan of songs and dances, but that isn't enough to say that it didn't deserve to be nominated. This movie is simply spell-binding. And I find it better than Chicago and Moulin Rouge. And I also believe that most of the bollywood flicks are crap. But not this one.

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] new_pa2 19 years ago

"And i remember the very same year LORD OF THE RINGS swept the Oscars and one of the cast members from Lagaan commented that LOTR is nothing but english version of Chandrakanta ( a stupid indian TV show which was supposed to be fantasy but ended beign a hilarious comedy) "

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HEYYYYY
Im sure from the arts veiw it is something different, they see it from a whole different perspective than the norms, and thats why LOTR won alot .

I didnt understand how Citizen Cane was such and extremely amazing movie or how Oreson Wells was so worn out and exhausted from makeing the Magnificent Ambersons and how it(Magnificent Ambersons) enfuriated the the studio and had it hacked and redone and burned what was left... until I learned more about photography and if you do that you will begin to notice theses things .You see its coming from the veiw of people who understand what goes into these movies and they rate it according ,so if your not knowledgeable about photography and directing and others you cant see it.

BUT if you had to rate movies on which ones people liked I would say Spiderman one and two are deserving of an oscar,i didnt have to cover my eyes or plug my ears or fast foreward...pluSS it was very entertaining.

[–] MrNeurosis 19 years ago

First of all i would like to tell you that i am a film student from UBC university currently doing my 2 years diploma in Film Production. So its obvious that i do know a lot about photography and directing as i myself had direcetd my very own two 30 mins short films.

Do you think movies win at OSCARS because they are hits at BOX OFFICE or because people like them a lot??

Also you dont need clever camera angles or beautiful cinematography to get critics love. Good movie means good characterisation and good screenplay, the two basic strengths of a classic.

LOTR won Oscars because it deserved it, and film students like me know the reason.

I could have taken Lagaan seriously but the useless songs and the long length of movie bored me so much that it was hard for me to concentrate on what was going on screen.

[–] mikham 19 years ago

There's the difference. You are studying film production in the US.

You cant equate what constitutes good production in the US with what is a good production in India. They are fundamentally different. Which is why while you found the songs useless and irritating, alot of peple really liked it. You have to be more flexible in analysing a film like that.

I mean a great film like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind would have truly bombed in India and would have probably gotten no acclaim at all. But it was one of the most popular films in the US last year.

[–] arvindsg 19 years ago

It's sad to see people have narrow views on opinions.

You forget a fundamental ground in acceptance or rejection of any movie for anything (awards, audience, you say it). Simply opinions.

If you want to say that it's good characterisation and screenplay that always gets movies into award shows - oh my friend you're so mistaken and so idealistic :)

Long been argued that the academy is biased and unfair. Long been hollered that it's NOT just those factors that will ensure you a place in anything. Long been discussed just how much of publicity and pushing will you get where all.

As for movies winning OSCARS because they're hits at Box Office - well... yes it HAS happened :)
I'm not a film student or what not, but I have seen "It's a Beautiful Life". LOVELY movie... but technically...well.. you have the attributes, you decide ;) Oscars was NOT it's game...but hellow !!

This is ONE instance... you want to look up on more of such examples :)

LOTR - I'll say I LOVED the movie, but honestly ! other than just the technical aspects of making a movie and a very good fantasy at that..ahem !
I believe there's more to it :)
And hey..how about if we put my previous two examples side by side -
LOTR and It's a Beautiful Life !
an parallels ? ANY !??!?
I'm not even talking story :) take technical, take non technical..take anything whatsoever !

naive discussions from a non-student of the films. But when you say "Lagaan was basically crap because of the songs and dances. Dude... I think you forget, songs and dances are not put as a technical requirement in Indian movies, but simply because people LOVE them :) If there isnt a single song in a movie... I dont believe there'd be as many people actually identifying it as an Indian movie anyway. It's part of our movie culture. It's also a lot of money in music sales. People overlook the fact that movies are primarily money making enterprises. Awards would be nice...but hey.. they're not throwing Rs.50 crore or somewhat just to win a statuette. Being a film student, well..I'm not entirely sure, but I would've expected this to be fundamental knowledge for you :)

When you talk of Hollywood musicals...and Indians been making musicals for 50 years ! oh hello... Hellowood been making them FAR LONGER :)

Again, you being a film student, I WOULD'VE expected this understanding of the audience on your part :)
Indian audience ARE different from American audience!
Our songs and dances ARE different from Americans!
Where you say Lagaan songs are just stupid and not required, Indians say "Chicago's" songs are just parts of the movie where they have an excuse to show women in minimal clothing making sensuous dance moves... which..is not exactly a mainstream effect in India :)
I have reason to believe, even if not perfect, the members of the academy will have that broad a view to accept the fact that this movie is from an entirely different culture. Us metro-folks being all "Friends" like and following "The OC" really does not make the Indian subcontinent so. The fact that the movie is such a hit in the metros just goes on to say that everyone..and EVERYONE identifies with the Indianness that is Lagaan :)

But then again...some like you would crop up and say - I'm a film student, I know it's sucky !!

oh god help the unlearned audience that's us ;)

cheers

[–] MrNeurosis 19 years ago

Even if hollywood has been making musicals for FAR longer, they have still made better use of songs and music. How many times do you see a hollywood musical and feel that certain songs are out of place or have been added just to fill the plot holes?? i havent have you??

Hindi movies are made for Indian audience obssessed with dance and music because its an integral part of there culture..is that what you trying to say?? in whole wide world only Indians spend millions on music?? Chinese and Japanese love music too, so does Americans but have you seen them making 3 hour MTV video in name of movies? who wants to see couple of jokers dancing in Europe and making themselves look like an ass in front of the locals?? i don't.

And why OSCAR is always ignoring us have you ever thought about it?? French,chinese and even movies from Iran give indian movies a good beating every year, have you ever wondered why??
Music is part of every other culture and is as integral as our own. But indian directors just use it as an excuse to fill up there sorry movies which has no plot or story.
Best example is BUNTY AND BUBLY, i was actually enjoying this movie till the intermission but after that there were so many random song sequences that i left the theatre and went back home so did some other people. It was clear director ran out of ideas.

The problem with indian directors is that they think its impossible to make a good movie without 5-6 songs in it, it doesnt matter story demands for it or not. In last 50 years or more its the same over the top used formula and many of the intelligent film goers are getting sick of it. Lagaan could have done without songs but no director didnt have enough guts to do it. Take all songs out of this movie and you wont feel anythign missing.

You can keep crying about how our culture loves music so much but this excuse is getting stale. Indian movies has got so linear that they almost forget that there are other mediums to express there talent. And you dont have to be a film student to see that, you just need to be smart.

For best example when i was in INDIA, i tried to sell my script to one of the well known producer in Bombay. After months i finally got a chance to show him my script. He went through all pages in 10-15 minutes and then asked me... " Are there any item numbers in this movie??, i want atleast 4-5 songs in it"
I had this big WTF?? look on my face.
I tried to reason with him that my story has no place for songs. Its a very serious drama and i can't put any item songs in it..the result my script got rejected.
So my friend if you are in INDIA you are just stuck with one kind of movies, it doesnt matter you want to make horror,action,comedy or thriller..because all we need is 5-6 useless songs with girls dancing in skimpy clothes.
WHY?? i must ask..the reason is that people in INDIA love music way too much.

SO according to you if people dont want to match movies without songs who cares for them anyways?? its not that my career is going to end, is it my loss in any way?? nope because i will still find a larger audience out of India who care for such movies

Yes i understand that Indian and American audience is very different. We need to follow our culture to make our mark internationaly but we can do it without all naach gaana movies too. Why not trying showcasing our acting talents more then dancing talents?? you mean that INDIAN culture is non exsistent if we dont show songs in every movie?? what a pathetic excuse.

As a filmmaker one needs space to evolve and keep doing somethign different, or you will be stuck in a vicious circle just like indian movies. No wonder even after all these years nobody cares for our movies except for some few NRI audience in west, and its because of people like you who would close there mind to any changes or progress.

Most of the current movies insult our intelligence and clearly shows that directors take us for granted, if you are ok with that its your wish and once again you dont need to be a film student to realise that.

[–] mikham 19 years ago

For best example when i was in INDIA, i tried to sell my script to one of the well known producer in Bombay. After months i finally got a chance to show him my script. He went through all pages in 10-15 minutes and then asked me... " Are there any item numbers in this movie??, i want atleast 4-5 songs in it"
I had this big WTF?? look on my face.
I tried to reason with him that my story has no place for songs. Its a very serious drama and i can't put any item songs in it..the result my script got rejected.
So my friend if you are in INDIA you are just stuck with one kind of movies, it doesnt matter you want to make horror,action,comedy or thriller..because all we need is 5-6 useless songs with girls dancing in skimpy clothes.
WHY?? i must ask..the reason is that people in INDIA love music way too much.

Did that really happen? I can't believe producers have such rigid, backward thought. I dont know if its of any use to you now, but if you go to www.filmguildindia.com, the website for the film producers guild of india, they have a list of various production companies, top ones I mean, so you could try selling your script to one of them. An example is Applause Entertainment, who did Black.

Also, see if you can get Sahara One Motion Pictures to finance your film. they seem to do all kinds of films, like the typical, bog-standard musical melodrama Bewafaa, to films like Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose, and D, which was just released.

I suppose one of the reasons music and film are so closely tied together is the lack of any noteworthy pop industry. I mean you only have remixes of old film songs and playback singers doing their own albums.

But I do quite enjoy reading your strong opinions about films. Its weird cos alot of what you say I have not even thought of before.

There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't

[–] MrNeurosis 19 years ago

Yes it did happen. It was 3 years ago when i used to dream about single handedly revolutionarise indian movies..lol.. some dream haan!

There were not many screenwriters or filmmakers back then who were intrested in making a movie without songs. I knew i was going to run into censor board because of its dark theme and way too much violence but too sad i didnt even get past the first stage.

I know couple of guys in New York who left india because they wanted to make sc-fi and fanatsy movies, and i must say they are damn good writers. So India's loss is Hollywood's gain. Its indian audience who is losing its upcoming talent because they are stuck with one theme, until there is a big change in attitude of indian directors and audience more and more people will join hollywood.

[–] arvindsg 19 years ago

Well sorry for your loss, but that's little excuse for hollering that the whole Indian movie scene is bad.

I can imagine you didnt exactly hum numbers from any Indian movie you ever saw - ok - I'm being harsh in my judgement here, but you certainly make it seem that way.

You talk of rigid views and unwillingness of people to try something new or another way of expressing talent, yet you yourself harbour the very same emotions when you put down 'songs and dance sequences' in Hindi movies. I ask you, do you really NEED to be that harsh on that account ????

You say you dreamed of single-handedly revolutionising the way Indian movies were/are made. I applaud your thought and effort; though I seriously, and I mean, VERY seriously think - your revolution may not suite all !

It's amazing the number of people who will scream murder at concepts such as "narrow mindedness" and "backwardness" when, I'm terribly sorry to say, display the very same mindset while opposite millions of other people's opinion.

I'm surprised that you being a script writer and a movie person actually doesnt care a damn about the people who actually DO end up liking such movies and the songs and dances in the movies! THIS is pretty My-Jaw-Is-Hanging-Open kinda situation. In a broader perspective - I dont think you're very different from the producers and directors who'll just make a formula movie and NOT care about the audience. Before countering what is said - let me tell you that you DID say something to the account of *it's people like me because of who there is no change because we close our minds to progress*. A LOT said there.

Ofcourse stories can be told WITHOUT naach-gaana in the movies. Guess what...they can be told WITH naach-gaana too!
Rather than a reasonable explanation of why it's a good idea for a film maker to put less songs in the movie (notice - THE movie) your post seems more like a (apologies already) long rant about why you totally hate these song dance things in Indian movies.

No it's not essential for our "culture" to survive through songs in movies. I just said this is the way Indian movies have evolved. You didnt have music groups 20/30/50 years ago in this country. We just had classical singers, and everyone didn't/doesn't have a taste for that. The biggest musical conciousness of India comes through movies. Just as now the idea is shifting balance - and we DO have musical people/musical groups independent of movie music; in the same breath let me point out that there ARE Indian movies being made that DONT have songs in them. There are funny movies, serious movies, tragic movies, lovey dovey movies. You DO have all kinds actually (though I'm sure you didn't disagree with this point anywhere).

Why swiss locales ? why stupid dances ?? why Why WHY ????
ahem..
I believe it wasnt ALWAYS like that. I dont think it's like that even NOW !! There was quite a period in the 90s that bought this about. I say "period" which means it's more or less a phase - an evolution - a change (take note mr. Shastra). Here is your much desired attribute - change ! probably NOT in the direction you so passionately desired. But it surely is not a directed course and will hit upon 80 different avenues before it even touches what you might deem as satisfactory. ALSO take note - what YOU deem as satisfactory might be trashed by the very audience you so want to claim. It's weird how every movie man will so confidently say - MINE is the formula! oh give me a break!

We DONT need songs, we DONT need dances or anything like that to showcase our talent, culture, whatever the heck. We just LIKE to ! and NO it's NOT to showcase our "talent, culture, whatever the heck" that we do that. It's just coz we LIKE watching it. It's just like you dont NEED to wear colourful clothes - you just LIKE wearing such! or then again...maybe you dont, but I'm sure you get my point.

Maybe the movie could've been told better without songs. Maybe it could've been WORSE! I'm just looking at what is and saying it's nice. Doesnt make a point to say ALL movies with songs are trash and ALL movies without them is the proper way to make em.

And as far as hollywood is concerned regarding musicals. I could probably give a tip or two regarding "Chicago"'s and "Moulin Rouge"'s songs and dance sequences. NO they dont all look and sound amazing and in place. Not to me. Guess what - I'm just ONE person, exactly like you are :)

cheers...have a broader view of things..it helps ;)

[–] MrNeurosis 19 years ago

Dude seriously i think whatever i said just went over your thick head.

Do you think i am ranting here because of my loss?? NO, its your loss my friend, its your loss not mine. You think a person like me or others who want to do somethign different are only dependent on audience like you?? lol thats funny.
I am where i always wanted to be, because here people actually listen and care if you have new ideas, so i will be workign exactly as i want.

Nobody is saying "HEY STOP MAKING MUSICALS", but why to dumb down the intelligent audience who want something DIFFERENT?? you know why the movies are they way they are? because directors think indian masses are so dumb that no matter what they show you on big screen you will happily pay them out of your pockets, and they succeed everytime. If you want to watch 3 hour nonsense its up to you.

And how come you are speaking on behalf of entire INDIAN audience?? how do you know everybody likes to watch it?? i am sorry but there are many who would disagree with you. Did i say nobody is allowed to make or watch musicals?? all i am saying is that is time for a change, if we really want to even get close to where American and other Asian movies are we must think GLOBALY.
MAKE ALL KIND OF MOVIES!! thats what my main RANT is about.

I actually care for my country and i am always waiting every year for the impossible to happen at OSCARS just like i cheer my cricket team in world cup every year. You see its a competiton, and only the best survive out there.

Change is part of nature, those who dont change according to time always lag behind. Just imagine Hollywood stuck in that time warp and only making musicals for next 50 years?? scary isn't it?? or making teen slashers like SCREAM and I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SUMMER for next 20-30 years?? every single release a teen slasher with half naked girls running and screaming.

Also you said that we do make different kind of movies like horror,suspense with no songs..hmm!! how many actually? every year 900 movies are made in INDIA, and such movies wont even form 5-10% for the whole number of releases. SO far NAINA and BLACK are the only two movis who actually care for the main plot and not for dumb audiences who just come to theatre to watch CHITRAHAAR. Just wait and see for rest of the year how many DIFFERENT movies we get.

I sometimes imagine what "IF" a genius director like NIGHT M SHYAMLAN had stayed in INDIA, what kind of movies he would have made.. maybe a musical SIXTH SENSE?
Can you imgaine him attaining the same international status if he had stayed back? and listened to your opinions and made musicals all his life? maybe he would have gagged himself due to lack of creative freedom.

Thanks to his parents they actualy saved there childs career by moving to America, if he had stayed here nobody would have even heard about him, and he must have been catering to the needs of obnoxious Indian audience who only want to see songs and dance.

"Rather than a reasonable explanation of why it's a good idea for a film maker to put less songs in the movie (notice - THE movie) your post seems more like a (apologies already) long rant about why you totally hate these song dance things in Indian movies."

I will try to get more reasonable. I gave an example where my script was rejected because it didnt have enough songs, to explain why its a good idea not to put songs in EVERY FREAKING MOVIE!!! you still didnt get it? ok i explain it again.

My script was based on character who was depressed, sad and on the edge, a danger to himself and society, now how the fuuck am i supposed to make this depressed and pathetic character of mine sing and dance?? who dont even take bath or shave everyday and carries a gun thinking about blowing himself every second, maybe singing is more important for him?? am i stupid or what?? or maybe singing songs or running around trees would cure this maniac and suicidial freak? MUSICAL THERAPY???

There are different genres in movies HORROR,ACTION,THRILLER,SUSPENSE,COMEDY... now since you know all about movies, maybe even more then FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA, can you please tell me how the hell you gonna make all above genres with 4-5 songs in it?? put some *beep* sense into my head pelase?? because right now my JAW-IS-DROPPING on the floor?

How can you make a serious thriller with 4-5 random songs?? would you even care for the main plot?? you need to make audience sit on the edge of there seats for thrillers to work, its about creating atmosphere. Imagine a killer approaching a girl from behind, he is holding a big knife in his hand, he slashes the girls throat, audience is gasping for air, they are scared waiting for his next move. Suddenly JOHNY LEAVER jumps into screen from nowhere making stupid jokes and next think you know you are in SWITZERLAND where your beloved hero and heroine are dancing and singing, changin clothes every 5 secs and running around trees. And locals are thinking who the *beep* are these monkeys?

Oh yeah and guy like you sits in front row with a big grin on his face, clapping and tapping foots on dance sequences, oh yeah thats fun!! huh.

"I believe the correct subject you might need to refer to for such analysis is "Film HISTORY" rather than Film Production :"

Thanks for enlighting me, now because of you i will get A+ on my next paper.

You keep referring to history and the origin of indian movies as musical, but isn't the first lesson of history is that everything changes with time?? or whats the point of reading history if nothing ever changes?

[–] arvindsg 19 years ago

First off - what's with the extreme reaction? did I strike you in the wrong place or something? does it really hurt you to just react to the post rather than to the person posting?
What's with your language? "thick head" ? well, that's one... and the rest of the sarcasm. I assure you I (and others reading this thread) will read your post and acknowledge your ideas without you resorting to frustrated lingo as such.

Ok - so here's the deal -

1) you dont KNOW what my loss is or isnt. Let's not argue about that point. I acknowledge that you probably have a vision; sorry to say, but for the moment I dont share it ALONG with you.

2) For a person denouncing Bollywood movies as "dumbed down", you dont seem to harbour a view anywhat similar for Hollywood. I noticed that you mentioned - teen screamers made by hollywood - but even other than that, it's not ever third movie that's a mind grabber from Hollywood. We DO make 900 movies a year (do notice - a nearly decade old statistic this one) but that's exactly what this is - a statistic! A majority is made up of regional movies that dont see the light of the day beyond state boundaries. Then there are B and C grade movies - I dont really suppose that's your target movie base as you speak. Coming to what you actually might consider as proper bollywood material, you dont have a lot to work with (when compared to the initial number - 900). I'll be plently generous and say - Bollywood makes between 1 and 3 GOOD movies a year. When I say GOOD movies, I dont mean - movies that just LOOK good, but which are ACTUALLY good! I form part of an audience... I have preferences too :)
Coming to Hollywood - The ones you refer to as "smart" movies (I'm hypothesizing your library here) are more often than not - reality based. That is to say - it's tried that the portrayal be as true to life as possible. This also leads to plenty of LOOPHOLES! why? since life hardly packs as much drama as a movie in 1.5 hours, so things have to be spiced up a hell lot, leading to plenty of holes in the whole idea.
Indian movies - a fundamentally different style of movie composition. Here we're looking at a much heightened DRAMA. Even when we talk different genres, we STILL differ in the way we carry it out.

3) Getting CLOSE to American and other Asian movies??? dude, you have a REALLY low opinion of the Indian film industry! As you mentioned "other Asian movies", I can (i believe - correctly) assume that you mean the latest streak of Chinese movies. Well if you've liked them and understood them to be of a higher descent - I salute you and end this debate right here. I dont see eye to eye with someone who has actually seen and appreciated these movies on an intellectual level (you did mention something regarding 'dumbing down' of Indian movies - so I'm assuming intellectual superiority here).
As for American movies. Well there are superiors and there are inferiors. Your absolute generalization leaves MUCH to be desired.

4) THIS point I totally wanted to avoid speaking about - and to clarify, in my previous post I didnt pinpoint such a question as to WHY ur movie was rejected. Your point on HOW you can put songs and dances in a movie about a sad and depressed character. I am not going to (and am hardly qualified to) suggest musical inputs to ur movie, but if ur question and wonderment is regarding HOW that is possible - I suggest you look at other such examples in the long list of such Indian movies. When "music" is mentioned - it doesnt by default mean - colourful songs and group dances. You might need to research other forms of music. Really good music directors know how to alter the mood/scene/setting through music. Since (by your own admission) most INdian movies are musicals...and you already know that we DO have a lot of genres, you should find plenty of good examples where directors HAVE put music in Horror, suspence, drama, tragedy, thriller - type movies. After this much elaboration on this point, any further will just be an insult to the intelligence that you posses and what you believe I possess!

5) Oh.. and yes - guy like me can be sitting in the front row clapping and tapping his foot. Well.. doesnt hurt, I'll admit!
You need to be a little less agitated while making a point, so that your point may come across as a point!
What you described is such a hugely berserk exhaggeration that I dont even feel the need to slice through the hash. This scene better suits a pathetically failed 80's movie. If that's the timeline you're competing against - god help!

Finally -
No I DONT represent ALL Indian audience. I acknowledge the fact that even YOU are one of them as a matter of fact. What YOU are forgetting though is that I make one of the audience too.
Why Indian movie makers are the way they are? Small budgets, therefore smaller arenas! Why so? of the 900 movies you confidently stated, a HUGE majority (closer to 875) are made by small time movie makers with small budgets for a SAFE audience. Excuse me if I hurt your feelings - but it's harder for a producer to risk losing a few crores, than for a scriptwriter to alter a script! You can well imagine what ends up happening.
Even movies that you might deem as sophisticated and 'intellectually enriched' are destined for select regions in the country and beyond. These are NOT, repeat - NOT for mass consumption. They DO flop in MAJOR areas (surprised?). More than artistic reach and international applause - the primary thing these movie makers look for is - collections!
I'll repeat - a statuette isnt gonna help otherwise.

A small note - in future posts please take care to reign in the language you might want to use. It may be hard being civil, but I am still counting on it to continue a debate if any.

[–] MrNeurosis 19 years ago

Yes you read it right i said DUMB audience. And if you are going to be my audience,atleast i will respect your intelligence and wont throw the old recycled stuff in your face and expect you to enjoy it and at the same time steal your money. But as i said everybody has its own choice, you can be dumb or intelligent its up to you. I am not beating my point, i am just trying to say that nobody can shove their ideas down your throat against your free will.

My sarcasm is in response to your sarcasm, read your previous post once again, you were just trying to prove that i am stupid. You stay on topic and so would i. And if its hard being civil for you then dont be, its free world and you have right to react in any way you like.

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1.) "you dont KNOW what my loss is or isnt. Let's not argue about that point. I acknowledge that you probably have a vision; sorry to say, but for the moment I dont share it ALONG with you."
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Its fine really, i dont want anyone to share my VISIONS. If i had to make movies about INDIA or INDIANS i can still do it by staying in US OR CANADA.

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2.) "For a person denouncing Bollywood movies as "dumbed down", you dont seem to harbour a view anywhat similar for Hollywood. I noticed that you mentioned - teen screamers made by hollywood - but even other than that, it's not ever third movie that's a mind grabber from Hollywood. We DO make 900 movies a year (do notice - a nearly decade old statistic this one) but that's exactly what this is - a statistic! A majority is made up of regional movies that dont see the light of the day beyond state boundaries. Then there are B and C grade movies - I dont really suppose that's your target movie base as you speak. Coming to what you actually might consider as proper bollywood material, you dont have a lot to work with (when compared to the initial number - 900). I'll be plently generous and say - Bollywood makes between 1 and 3 GOOD movies a year. When I say GOOD movies, I dont mean - movies that just LOOK good, but which are ACTUALLY good! I form part of an audience... I have preferences too :)
Coming to Hollywood - The ones you refer to as "smart" movies (I'm hypothesizing your library here) are more often than not - reality based. That is to say - it's tried that the portrayal be as true to life as possible. This also leads to plenty of LOOPHOLES! why? since life hardly packs as much drama as a movie in 1.5 hours, so things have to be spiced up a hell lot, leading to plenty of holes in the whole idea.
Indian movies - a fundamentally different style of movie composition. Here we're looking at a much heightened DRAMA. Even when we talk different genres, we STILL differ in the way we carry it out."
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Are you sure that every third movie that comes out of hollywood is not a mind grabber? lets see some of the movies released so far.
1.) KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
2.) CINDERALLA MAN
3.) LORDS OF DOGTOWN

I have given you the three latest relases here, if these movies dont grab your mind then nothing will. Yeah a lot of hollywood movies suck but if we compare it with the amount of indian releases, you know who gives us better films.

The movies i listed are based on reality and struggle of a comman man and are not some SCI-FI like STAR WARS or HITCHIKER GUIDE TO GLAXY.
And people from all over the world can identify with these movies. Also i would like to mention here that STAR WARS- REVENGE OF SITH is doing a very good business in INDIA better then most of the domestic releases and its not REALITY BASED. So we do have audience for such movies in our country but no director has enough brains to give them something like this.

An average Hollywood movies script takes 4-5 years to complete which can involve sometimes 10-15 times of rewriting and editing. KILL BILL alone took 8-10 years to be written, while in span of 10 years just imagine how many Hindi movies can be made? also indian scripts are completed in 5-6 months. This alone shows the amount of effort hollywood filmakers put into there movies, do i need more reasons to say INDIAN MOVIES are not DUMBED DOWN??

Out of 900 movies released every year 150 are hindi movies. Now lets forget rest of the numbers. Out of 150 mainstream hindi releases how many good movies we get? maybe 2 or 3 if lucky we cant get 4 and i am talking about YEAR not month. I dont think there is anything to be proud of here, it only shows that audience is tired and its time for change. I dont know what are you trying to defend here? how pathetic movies can get? i dont know how someone can be satisfied by the current state of Indian movies?? this is something i can't understand.

Lets not talk about Reality Based or Fictional movies or how Indians are not ready for this stuff, these are just excuses to work hard and actually do something different. Because the kind of movies we are making are way too easy and doesnt take a very high IQ level to make it. And thats why i use the word being DUMBED DOWN. In your posts you make indian people appear as if they are not intelligent enough to understand sci-fi movies like THE MATRIX or CLOCKWORK ORANGE or BLADE RUNNER??
Also you think to add much drama we need 3 hours?? sorry my friend its not the length but the content in the movie. You can show as much drama in 1.5 hours as you can in 3 hrs, you dont have to drag it forever.

The American movie industry is smarter indeed. As you mentioned about FILM HISTORY in your previous post, you must be aware with fact that like INDIA even in hollywood there was a big trend for musicals. Every major studio was releasing musicals, but then with time they reinvented themselves and make movies on all subjects. Now if we are so different in carrying out things why do we fail miserably at our attempts?? the key thing here to understand is very simple. You need to adapt yourself with time in order to survive. Its just a common sense.

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3)"Getting CLOSE to American and other Asian movies??? dude, you have a REALLY low opinion of the Indian film industry! As you mentioned "other Asian movies", I can (i believe - correctly) assume that you mean the latest streak of Chinese movies. Well if you've liked them and understood them to be of a higher descent - I salute you and end this debate right here. I dont see eye to eye with someone who has actually seen and appreciated these movies on an intellectual level (you did mention something regarding 'dumbing down' of Indian movies - so I'm assuming intellectual superiority here).
As for American movies. Well there are superiors and there are inferiors. Your absolute generalization leaves MUCH to be desired."
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No i dont have very low opinion about Indian films, there achievements speak for themselves. They have hardly contributed to international cinema except for genius directors like SATYAJIT RAY or GURU DUTT. It's funny actually that these directors had greater visions and were way ahead there times then the recent breed of hacks who call themselves directors. And if you watch some movies from RUSSIA, IRAN, CHINA and JAPAN you will understand what i am saying. You will realise we are at the bottom of the ladder. Few examples:

a.) HERO (chinese movie) -This film holds a political message which is relevant to all times, even in modern times with all the voilence going on in IRAQ and is just not another martial art movie. But still many indian audience will cry why its in imdb 250 and LAGAAN is not?? can we blame IMDB if people relate it to more all over the world then LAGAAN?

b.) HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS - another chinese masterpeice, with message of human struggle and survival.

c.) SOLYARIS - russian movie from legendery director Andrei Tarkovsky which has been adapted and remade number of times worldwide.

d.) Ugetsu Monogatari - Japanese masterpeice which can put even major hollywood movies to shame in drama and emotions and it was made in 1953.

e.) Tokyo Story - another 1953 drama from Japan and has a very moving and touching story.

f.) Seven Samurai - This movie is legend in itself and has inspired directors all around the world including QUENTIN TARANTINO. The style of this movie was way ahead of its time. Truly revolutionery.

g.) RAN- directed by genius AKIRA KUROSAWA

h.) ZELARY - CZECH REPUBLIC

e.) CITY OF GOD - made in Brazil a country poorer then INDIA in terms of money spent on movies.

This is just a small list of movies from some not very BIG film industries as comapred to INDIA but these movies can still put any indian so called 3 hours NAACH GAANA drama to shame. No hindi movie can pack the same amount of punch like the above i mentioned and yes they all are REALITY BASED. I have long list with me but if you havent seen any of these movies then i wont even bother posting the rest. If you can rent these movies then please do, otherwise all discussion is pointless.

And i dont even want to start with AMERICAN movies. When indian directors will release some serious stuff like GODFATHER or DOG DAY AFTERNOON we will talk about how indian movies are so different and are able to potray a much heightened DRAMA.

No indian movie has ever brought to me tears like RAIN MAN, no indian movie showed me the reality and cruelity of wars like SCHINDLERS LIST, THE PIANIST or SAVING PRIVATE RYAN and made me feel disturbed for years...no, JP DUTTA'S mockeries of india-pakistan war dont even come close.
No indian movie ever showed me how real violence can be, like PULP FICTION, CITY OF GOD and RESERVIOR DOGS did. I didnt know what epic really was until i saw GANDHI, BEN HUR or LORD OF THE RINGS. Surprisingly GANDHI was also made by a non-indian and no other indian movie has succeeded in potraying its own beloved leader to that effect. I can go on and on... but in the end yes Hollywood is SMARTER then indian film industry.
With the exception of very few hindi movies which i can count on my finger tips everything else just SUCKS. Again nothing to be proud of when this industry releases close to 1000 movies every year.

Not to mention that i discovered hollywood at the age of 16 and till then i grew up on heavy dose of indian musicals. So its not that i havent seen them. But now i feel cheated and humiliated as an audience.

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4) THIS point I totally wanted to avoid speaking about - and to clarify, in my previous post I didnt pinpoint such a question as to WHY ur movie was rejected. Your point on HOW you can put songs and dances in a movie about a sad and depressed character. I am not going to (and am hardly qualified to) suggest musical inputs to ur movie, but if ur question and wonderment is regarding HOW that is possible - I suggest you look at other such examples in the long list of such Indian movies. When "music" is mentioned - it doesnt by default mean - colourful songs and group dances. You might need to research other forms of music. Really good music directors know how to alter the mood/scene/setting through music. Since (by your own admission) most INdian movies are musicals...and you already know that we DO have a lot of genres, you should find plenty of good examples where directors HAVE put music in Horror, suspence, drama, tragedy, thriller - type movies. After this much elaboration on this point, any further will just be an insult to the intelligence that you posses and what you believe I possess!
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Its amazing really how in whole wide world we think that only we need music and songs in every subject to reflect our emotions?? really whats the logic behind it?? country like BRAZIL is also known for its musical culture all around the world, but the BRAZILIAN director didnt put 5-6 brazilian dance numbers or SAMBA in CITY OF GODS and its still a very good movie, way better then majority of indian films. This country is even poorer then INDIA but nobody there uses excuses like these or cry for low budget or mindset of there audience.

In hindi movies there is song for every ocassion, even when they want to pee they want to sing about it... once or twice is fun but every damn time? after a while it starts appearing like unintentional comedy.

Also i repeat my question how can you put music in HORROR?? if i make a musical horror how the hell am i supposed to scare the audience? isn't that the main purpose of horror movies? no wonder not even a 5 year old will be scared after watching a RAMSAY BROTHERS musical ghosts. Once again JAPAN steals the limelight from us with movies like THE RING and THE GRUDGE in horror genre.

SONGS and DANCE doesnt work with all themes, songs and dance works majorley wih musicals.. how hard it is to understand? i dont remember any major film studios running to INDIA desperately trying to buy copyrights from RAMSEY brothers for there horror movies to make its American version..or maybe i missed something?

Indian movies evolved with music i agree but hardly did our old directors knew that they are making the biggest mistake of there lives. I am sure they never imagined that the future generation will cling to this one theme for ever. I am sure it wasnt there intention. They expressed thmselves through music, they didnt say copy our style for rest of your lives or dont do something different.But as i said Indian filmmakers just want to fill there pockets and its the easisest way out.
How is it possible to make a THRILLER,WAR MOVIE or HORROR movie with 5-6 random songs?? no matter how hard you try to integrate them along with the story line they will always appear out of sync and will never move along well with the main theam. And if it was possible INDIAN movies would have SUCCEEDED long time back but they failed miserably and what more proof do we need that all these genres and songs don't mix? name one musical thriller from INDIA which had a big impact on audience world wide like ALFRED HITCHCOKS "PSYCHO" had? bottom line is it doesnt work.

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5.)5) Oh.. and yes - guy like me can be sitting in the front row clapping and tapping his foot. Well.. doesnt hurt, I'll admit!
You need to be a little less agitated while making a point, so that your point may come across as a point!
What you described is such a hugely berserk exhaggeration that I dont even feel the need to slice through the hash. This scene better suits a pathetically failed 80's movie. If that's the timeline you're competing against - god help!
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Really?? pick any movies from 90 or even recent releases you will still find our hero and heroines..maybe not around trees but still running around a lot of other stuff in european countries. In one movie i even saw them running around PYRAMID in EGYPT oh yes GOD HELP!! maybe they dont change clothes every 5 secs but down below the core its the same tried and tested formula of songs and dance which make no freaking sense.
The recent examples was BOLE SONE HAAL where Sunny Deol was jumping like an ape in a busy street (USA??) along with his heroine.. are you sure indian movies crossed timeline of 80's??

Finally the debate i always get in. THE LEGEND OF SMALL BUDGET.

We dont need big budgets to make good though provoking intelligent movies i can give you the best example "DONNIE DARKO", this movie had the lowest budget and still was criticaly loved everywhere. Directors who have some real talent can do wonders with low budgets. And i think we make enough B and C class movies which caters to the need of audience who want to watch brainless stuff, something on the line of MITHUN DA's films but they are not best example of low budget being put to good use.

So in the end the moral of the story is that INDIAN fimmakers only care for money, since they only care for money they will keep serving us the same old and stale recepies and we will happily keep accepting them in name of entertainment.
Movies are lot more then just a medium of getting rich but most of the indian filmmakers dont realise that. No wonder in international film festivals like CANNES and OSCARS we get critical acclaim only for the way AISHWARYA RAI dresses and not for the movies we make. Its sad really.
But to satisfy there bloated egos they will arrange some stupid awards like IFFA or whatever its called in some foreign country every year, invite some B class celebrities from Hollywood, do the same item numbers on stage and try to act as if they have done so much for international cinema. While nobody abroad would even care.

Once again OSCARS will come and we will wonder why we lost again this year, but hardly we will make an effort to do something about it because all we care is about making safe movies, so i think its ok to gagg the creative freedom and shun the new ideas. Yeah...way to go Indian filmmakers.

[–] mikham 19 years ago

Shahstra, I respect and largely agree with your opinion, but how come you desided to point it out on the message board of what even you must admit is one of the better films to have come out of India in recent years. There are loads of much worse movies with more active message boards where you can release your frustration.

There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't

[–] MrNeurosis 19 years ago

No way i am not venting my frustration thats for sure. Its just a discussion but people can interpret it in anyway they like. But due to the size of posts me and the other guy are posting its quite obvious that many wont even completely read it before arriving to any conclusion. And i think i am in too deep to take it to some other board now. I am at the point of NO RETURN :P

Also we are talking about hindi movies in general not about Lagaan.

[–] mikham 19 years ago

There is a whole board for Indian cinema. I'm not sure if you already knew that:

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000033/threads/

But ya, you are in pretty deep in this conversation I guess. And I dont really read either your's or the other guy's post properly or fully.

There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't

[–] arvindsg 19 years ago

Come a long long way...haven't we ?

I preferred defending...or more accurately...arguing about a NARROW band of whatever was the subject of argument. But on the width of the level you defined in the last post, dude, that's not a cake, that's a mountain!

Zimbly zpeaking - my arguments were keeping a movie like "Lagaan" in mind and the "generic" nature of your initial comments. Slashing out against a sad movie for a stupid failed concept - understandable. Doing something similar while commenting on a movie that's much liked - I think you might be taking on something somewhere.

I'll just gloss over most of what you posted (though I read ALL of it).
1) NO I'm NOT against change in Indian movies (though you havent accused me of such...I believe). My point has just been that the way Indian movies are made arent all a recycle-bin material.

The (i'll repeat) generic-quality of your initial comments had indicated that it was against Indian movies in general - and that was teh point I spoke against. I went point by point in the aftermath as it boiled down to specifics.

2) Indian movie scene IS changing. 900 movies... most of which I never hear of. You just gave me a number of 150 for Hindi movies..and amusingly enough, even out of the more successful ones among those.. I'm really not the kind of guy who'll even get to HEAR about half of them! I saw BLACK after the DVD was out - and honestly - the performances and technicals didnt leave me dazed. It was the concept and the path the story took that made me gape. Yes - Hollywood would've done it better (I've heard that they HAVE); but there is a certain INDIANIZATION that Hollywood cannot achieve (nor will they aim for). This something that Indian audience recognize and relate to. The part of the world where I can get that from - is Bollywood (howmuchever we hate or love it). The way Indian movies are made is evolving. Unfortunately as a guy who doesnt watch a lot of Hindi movies - I cant give you a number/names of recent good movies. But I HAVE heard about such - Black, My Brother Nikhil, Ram Gopal Verma movies, Tango Charlie.. most of them I havent personally seen, but I dont have to evaluate them personally each time :)

3) Songs and dances...songs and dances. I'm not fighting FOR songs and dances in Indian movies. God knows a heck load of those movies could do WITHOUT them! My argument was against yours denouncing them too early on! Songs in a movie like "Lagaan" - I believe are well placed and REALLY dont present an argument AGAINST songs in Indian movies.

How songs can be placed in Horror movies...and how can they be horrifying is such a feat is accomplished... here you again took the end of a loose rope. Dude, the point was to state that there ARE intelligent examples of putting songs in Indian movies. In EVERY genre! surprised? well when you watch them... you'll be even MORE so. A SONG by itself is NOT a package of 15 dancers/5 trees/foriegn locales/a hero/a heroin. How can I explain to you that there ARE songs for quite a HELL LOT of moods. It's a bit futile arguing how songs/lyrics/music can fit to different genres and emotions.

4) Quite a few movies from those you mentioned - I havent seen!
But for some that I have -...
-The Hero - SUCKED ! EVERYONE who watched it with me... started "LIKING" it for DIFFERENT reasons. Each of their reasons started coming together after they started talking about it and hesitantly started agreeing with one another.
If "Showing Political planning and instability" is ur USP for the movie...it's a weak choice. There are PLENTY of movies showing political scenarios in Hindi. By the way - please DONT start quoting the WORST of the lot among the Indian movies.
The version of "liking" that I LIKED among all...was that the strong point of the movie was "Story telling". How the same scenario was changed and repeated 3 times...and each time really well told.
Nothing to do with whatever political theme blooh bleah etc.

- The house of flying daggers - Human emotions and struggle? that's pretty much what 90% of your Indian movies are based on. I have more than enough reason to believe - we do a MUCH better job!
I'll accept ur arguments on superiority of quite a few movies...but THIS being argued as a good movie on human etc.? I fail to see or understand. Not because I CANT understand..but simple because it's not HALF of what it promises to be. Weak movie... plot/story/execution everything reminded me of a low level hindi masala movie.

Sadly enough..i havent seen the rest from teh enumerated ones.

One interesting point was - Star Wars doing better etc...and Indian directors cant make such coz they're dumb. No arguments FOR Indian directors, but for THIS particular movie, your argument is way off! Star Wars - Sith is NO directional marvel. It has mediocre performances and an okayish screenplay. It's winning points are
- Part of a cult franchize
- FINALLY tied the loose ends together to continue the story onto IV, V and VI
- AMAZING @(*#@LOADS of money spent on CGI effects

You forget - Star Wars was about the VISION! that was a vision in the 70s. Now it's just a continuity of the cult. It's not a directorial equivalent of hypnocism.

Accepted - There are countries which pour LESSER money on movie making and come up with better ventures. But not so many of them :)
Even in Indian movie chain..its not the most expensive ones that always take the cake. Since you have seen more...you'll agree with me here.
One of the more memorable tragedies of my past is the "Roop ki rani Choron ka raja" thingie. I still havent recovered! To think of it - they spent a planet and a half on it (according to the time and the regular Indian movie budget).

But if pitted against science fictions with CGI and *beep* DOES become a matter of how much you pour in. One of the finest examples of OUR Sci-Fi has been - Mr. India. The Sci-Fi and the vision was in the concept, not in CGI.

I hope for this to be my last post on the topic as this argument is GROWING out of control. My point was stated against some particulars against a particular movie and a particular concept in Indian movies :) I'd rather not stand and fight for/against every concept in every Indian movie and about every director just coz they're Indian and so am I.

My point on the original theme =
Songs were quite well placed in Lagaan.
Songs dont just mean = you dance around trees (ok..buildings/locales/wahtever)
Putting music/songs in a movie as a concept is not an entirely flawed idea OVERALL !

cheers and have a good life.

[–] arvindsg 19 years ago

A little addendum...

I just reread a line from your post -

<i>SO far NAINA and BLACK are the only two movis who actually care for the main plot and not for dumb audiences who just come to theatre to watch CHITRAHAAR.</i>

DUMB audience?? did you just say "Dumb audience" ??

Let me think who's the other movie making person who thinks like you..
umm...OH...EVERYONE !!
no wonder the quality of movies is what you consider as... well..all said :)

If they're going to be YOUR audience sometimes - I suspect you might want to give them a little more respect. If not, then you're just uselessly beating out your point with a guy who forms part of the DUMB audience!

[–] arvindsg 19 years ago

Oh yes, I believe the correct subject you might need to refer to for such analysis is "Film HISTORY" rather than Film Production :)

cheers

[–] j_jenny 19 years ago

Of course it did! have you even bothered watching it????

[–] new_pa2 19 years ago

I DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all 4 gerzillion(i know its "Ga") hours of it....lolI guess I dont have the Oscar nominees chooseerers standard for movies because I cant see why it got there ...You people are so intelliagent...MU HU HA HA HA

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] arvindh-mani 12 years ago

Lagaan was a truly great movie, definitely deserved to go to the Oscars! Also good it didn't win.. Amelie was better, maybe it deserved to win, havent seen No man's land so not sure..

"Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of *beep* and came out clean on the other side."

[–] first_oceans 12 years ago

Of-course it deserved to be there.Whats amazing about the movie is that it managed to woo the critics while being a crowd pleasure.For me it was better than no mans land but not better than Amelia(which deserved the Oscar that year a/c to me).

[–] Catgurl22 10 years ago

I think it was a stupid decision by the Indian Film Board to send "Lagaan" to the Oscars. There was no way in hell it would have won! Instead of choosing commercial entertainer like "Lagaan", they should have picked a more serious and mature film.

Not only is "Lagaan" just another usual standard Bollywood movie, its main focus is cricket, which may be worshiped in India but Americans have no idea or interest in the sport. But then I am not surprised because the Indian Film Boards were stupid enough to send "Jeans" to the Oscars! LOL!

Mr McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!

[–] 10 years ago

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