We have better stuff...


I can't speak to the veracity or characterization of the events of this film, but that line was REALLY prophetic. More than the writers or the real-life heads of Apple and Microsoft could have ever known. The Gates character responds in a shrill voice that nobody cares. This movie played on tv a couple of years before the introduction of the iPod--a device that functionally did not bring much to the table, but in terms of user interface changed the entire landscape. After establishing a stranglehold of the portable media device market, the iPhone was introduced. Say what you want about all the hype, but the iphone revolutionized the smartphone market. Several companies tried and failed at establishing a foothold in the tablet computing market. Enter iPad. Granted, the hype of Apple's devices is over the top, but you can't argue with their success. They simply have better stuff.

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Well, the key to Apple's "better stuff" is that they make and integrate their stuff so it works.

Microsoft, on the other hand, is like buying generic parts for your car. It may fit. It may function. But it's not a perfect fit and eventually it my cause more problems than it solves.


Windows is Wal*Mart for your computer.



"Atlas Shrugged- Part 1"- Coming soon to Canada and on DVD!

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I wouldnt go as far as saying MS causes more problems than it solves, but the Wal-Mart analogy may be right. Wal-Mart is so big, you'll see a lot of dumb people buying stuff there. Same with MS. Their OS market share is so big, a lot of dumb people will have the OS, and will probably mess up their computers in less than a year.

The genius thing is, Apple invested in marketing things that didnt have a huge market share belonging to another. mp3 players were still kinda niche when the iPod came out. When the iPhone came out, smartphones were marketed for corporate use. Some random celebrities used Blackberry phones, but still, it was too expensive and not marketed to the regular Joe. Nobody was interested in tablets, until they marketed theirs as a cool internet device.

In the end, it really didnt matter that Apple had better stuff. They regained their glory with products that weren't part of MS main market, those being the OS and the Office Suite.

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To expand on that, the key to Apple's "better stuff" is that Apple controls the entire platform AND the software/applications that run on it. Much easier to have everything 'just work" when you exercise complete control over the total hardware and software configuration.

In the PC realm, you can easily have the chipset made by one supplier, the BIOS by another, and the motherboard by yet another. Packaged into a computer by another company using peripherals made by half a dozen other firms. Then you install Microsoft's OS, controlling the operation of user applications written by other software vendors. With a landscape like that, it's a wonder that PCs work at all!

It's all a tradeoff. The Apple model makes for a much cleaner and more consistent user experience, at the cost of the freedom to configure the system easily to meet your specific needs. The PC model gives you much more freedom to make the system do EXACTLY what you need/want it to do, at the cost of added complexity and occasional annoyances making various parts of the system get along with each other.

Personally, I like Apple's method for something like a cellphone. My iPhone "just works" without lockups and errors, unlike most of the Android phones I have tried. But I would NEVER cede that much control over my desktop or laptop computer to a single vendor.

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In the PC realm, you can easily have the chipset made by one supplier, the BIOS by another, and the motherboard by yet another. Packaged into a computer by another company using peripherals made by half a dozen other firms. Then you install Microsoft's OS, controlling the operation of user applications written by other software vendors. With a landscape like that, it's a wonder that PCs work at all!


I think you missed the entire point of what Microsoft planned to do: make their product available across the entire x86 spectrum. It's not a wonder that they work at all: that was the entire point. And it's the same thing that companies like Apple and IBM (with OS/2) refused to understand. Example: Not only was Windows 3.0 shipped with many new computers, but OS/2 lacked many hardware drivers that Win3 had. So even without the marketing support, Microsoft still had a leg up on compatibility. And things like that play a big part in making or breaking a system.

Microsoft sells Windows in OEM batches to manufacturers. it's primarily the manufacturer's job to make sure that the hardware devices that you mentioned all work in harmony with Windows on that machine.

Of course there are some compatibility issues along the way, and of course sometimes Microsoft has to answer for it. When you consider that Microsoft has about 10 times the userbase to maintain as Apple does, there will be more hiccups.

And the funniest part of it all is that if Microsoft locked its users in to a Windows-centric ecosystem the way that Apple does, more people would be complaining that they were tyrants. That's why they got sued in the first place! Like you mentioned, that ecosystem comes with a price. Lock yourself in to one platform and have higher guarantee of smooth functionality, or take the risks and operate your PC with much more freedom. And if Windows isn't enough freedom, that's why *Nix is around, ha.

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Just one question so that it is clear they do have better stuff.

How many of you Mac owners ever needed assistance with e broken, malfunctioning Mac?

In over 25 years of faithful use, I had to take one laptop beck to the store because it had problems. One time. That's all the assistance I needed because of malfunctioning. Actually, it's the only assistance I ever needed for whatever reasons. However, it was not Aplle's fault. My house cleaner helper had decided to drop it into the bucket filled with soap and water!

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[deleted]

Nothing prophetic about the Bill Gates "it doesn't matter" line because microsoft's breakout success already happened by the time the film was made in 1999. Apple was just coming out of the doldrums in 1999 with the iMac. It wasn't until 2001 that we had the iPod and everything else.

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The scene took place at a keynote in the early 80's where the first version of Windows had appeared, and it was at that moment the PC vs. Mac wars really took off, so "it doesn't matter" was actually rather prophetic.

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Well everything is prophetic in hindsight. The film was made in 1999 WAY after Microsoft took over the world in real life so nothing about Gates saying "it doesn't matter" was prophetic, because we already knew in 1999 that it didn't matter. Now giving Jobs the line that Apple was better than Microsoft and that they have better stuff in a film made in 1999--before Apple took over the world with the iPod (2001), iPhone (2007) and iPad (2010) along with a sharp increase in sales of macbooks after the film came out--is prophetic. When they gave that line to the Noah Wylie character, no one would have ever guessed that Apple would eventually eclipse microsoft.

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I don't want to discredit anything Apple has done in the last 10 years, but the idea that Apple has eclipsed Microsoft?

They have, in some ways... but not in the business they both started in and which was the focus of this movie, which was personal computers. Apple's PCs still have the same market share they've had for years, which is around 5% with Windows-based PCs making up most of the difference.

Smartphones, tablets, MP3 players... yes, definitely, Apple has done great things.

Although I think some people forget that the first iPods were Firewire devices only (Firewire was mostly only found on Apple computers) and didn't support USB, which was a huge oversight... they fixed that flaw pretty quickly, but it makes you wonder whether he had the vision he is sometimes credited with or whether he was just going to use the iPod as an Apple computer accessory initially.

iPods are hugely successful because they work with Windows PCs, not because they work with Apple computers.

For the future of consumer electronics, Apple looks in a far better position... but Microsoft is still a huge money-making machine and has the corporate market, as does IBM, which was also made fun by the Jobs character in this movie.

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BRA-VO!

iPods wouldnt have such a marketshare if they were Apple-exclusive. On the other hand, a successful MS product like Office would still have a huge market share even if there was no Apple version.

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Thats such bull....ipods were highly successful w/o the need of MS...they were so successful in fact that people were willing to find a way to use them with their crappy Windows OS. If you remember iPods were also formatted for Mac OS only....they had to be reformatted to work with Windows

Apple then gave in an decided to support iPod on Windows.

Only reason Windows is popular is because PCs are cheap junk...and most people are cheap. Apple computers are better quality but people just care about the price. Also why Wal-Mart is so big even if all they sell is mostly cheap junk

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People were also willing to figure out a way to watch video on the iPod classic's black and white screen with no audio but that doesn't mean it was popular...just that there were a few people with the capacity to do it. You obviously don't understand the tech culture at the time.

Also, you don't seem to differentiate between hardware and software. Windows is a piece of software that can be installed on most any set of hardware where up until very recently the Mac os could only be found on licensed Apple hardware. Since they controlled the construction at the factory and partially because of their draconian licensing agreement, upgrading and customizing an Apple computer was very limited and prohibitively expensive. On the other hand, PC hardware was relatively cheap and most certainly was not "junk" as you so ignorantly put. Let's just say there's a reason Apple's market share in the business world hasn't moved in 10 years...

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PCs are cheap junk?
I would not make statements like that. This just shows your ignorance.
All the internet is built on PC architecture There are NO apple servers to even speak of.
Yes PCs are cheaper but they are better than Apple hardware - comparing apples to apples (same pricepoints). Saying that they are "junk" is just an ignorant statement of an itard.
There is no question about that. Now you can have your own opinions about msft but PCs can run much more than MSFT.

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I don't want to discredit anything Apple has done in the last 10 years, but the idea that Apple has eclipsed Microsoft?

Apple has eclipsed Microsoft in the only things that matter in business - revenue, profit, market cap. Apple is the biggest tech company in the world. Microsoft can hang it's hat on their dominance in the desktop market, but that market is stagnant. In terms of total revenue and profits, Apple is now king. If anyone had said, back in 1999, that by 2011 Apple would not only be profitable again, but actually bring in far more revenue than Microsoft and be more profitable than Microsoft and the most profitable tech company in the world, that person would have been institutionalized. I'm not an Apple fan, but what they've done in the last 10 years is unbelievable.

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microsoft despite what people think isnt just about desktop and office

it has .net which has a huge share of the net techonlogy,

it has xbox and the kinect

they have diversified well even without bill riding them

now what happens to apple ? I dont think it will last...




An Idea is the most resilient parasite - Inception

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now what happens to apple ? I dont think it will last...


People have been saying that since the Apple 1 in 1976.

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Only after being bailed out by MS, which we see at the end of the movie.

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Amazing what just over 6 months can do to your comment. The iPad has become THE PC replacement in enterprise. We're talking Fortune 500. Also Apple is now worth more than Microsoft and Google put together. Sure an iPad will not replace a full-blown workstation but it certainly can replace much of what enterprise was buying PCs for in 80% of the cases.

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Except it costs more!

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Wrong, read, research and you'll find out that Apple has pretty much locked in the lowest prices for the hardware that makes the iPad. No other vendor can build a comparable tablet in the price range. The screen resolution alone is unique to the new iPad.

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...Unique resolution as in lower resolution than even competing tablets that cost much less than the inferior over-priced Apple product? lol

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Just do a search for "Apple recalls", just focusing on the apple.com domain its over 220k hits, most of them are ofc. from their forums but ignoring those its still a long list.

Battery issues (going bad, bulging), Chipset faults, Overheating etc...

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problem with macs are because of the closed source not enough software. and the software titles that there is is way overpriced compared to pc equivalent. same goes for macs. yeah it doesn't crash but less selection and more expense. furthermore it's much easier and cheaper to upgrade a pc than a mac.
all that combined - for the tech savvy and those that need specific software there is really no choice but pc (and pc doesn't mean msft if you didn't know that already)

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Nope, I think with the Ipod, they actually did what the Bill Gates character say "that doesn't matter" it doesn't matter that its sounded like crap. Creative MP3 players sounded better, the GUI wasn't that great.

LOL @the IPad 3...

its all marketing... ".imo"

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The biggest irony of all is now the Apple fans are the drooling corporate drones sitting down watching big brother on the screen chanting "yes,yes", the sad thing is they still think they are hip, cool and unique. I have a pc I built to my specs that is unlike anyone's and reflects my individuality.It is more rugged, flexible and less costly than any Apple computer and it runs circles around them. And it wasn't assembled using 12 year olds.

"MACS don't get viruses".
True, the point of writing a virus is for it to propagate. Nobody wants to take the time to code for an OS nobody uses. At the last gathering the Apple OS was cracked in 2 hours while the Win7 machine wasn't cracked until day 2. Of course there will be more problems with a pc and the Microsoft operating system, that is because they aren't overpriced fashion accessories and are readily available to all income levels which results in far more computer illiterate people having access to them.

As far as the other markets go, there are better products for cheaper than the iPhone. I had an iPhone, I'll take my Droid any day.

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Apple's "better stuff" is the business model. Hardware barely matters; besides the iPhone 5, the previous iPods/Phones/Pads have all provided hardware competitors either already outperformed or quickly outperformed--but that is not the point. Apple knew what was "good enough" for the consumer in terms of tech specs, and they focused on the big picture, the service model (plus great branding and marketing). All of their products would be just as useless as those random portable MP3 players if not for the iTunes store. iTunes and the service model ("Apple Genius") is what really compels the average consumer to choose Apple over everyone else. In fact, iTunes is comparable to what the GUI in this movie did for computers--it made the hardware useful.

The company Apple needs to fear today is Amazon, which is trying to offer everything from an iTunes copy to a Netflix copy to an e-library to free 2-day shipping all in 1 package. Google is a decent competitor, but it barely tries to directly compete--the Android OS and Market are generally sold as tools that other phone companies get to toot so that they don't have to start from scratch when they try to compete against against Apple's devices.

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Wow!

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I don't get what you mean by the greatness of iTunes. In a way I hate iTunes, as a PC user. I feel like it limits me. I would have preferred to just put a CD in and get all the files displayed like ordinary mp3 files on a PC. And just scroll it over to whichever mp3 player I'm using. Like with regular USB sticks.

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And now Samsung is eventually going to destroy Apple. Android is already more popular outside the Western world and their smartphones are the most widely used.

They should have had some Korean kid in this movie working on his own project. Now that would have been awesome.

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It's amazing how prophetic this film was and it was made almost 14 years ago, or forever in computer years.

This was just one of those prophetic things.

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[deleted]

You're wrong of course, Apple is doing pretty good.

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[deleted]

I used to have a 3G (the slowest piece of junk I've ever owned), and now I have a 4S. I hate Apple passionately, but I bought these 2 for the app store only.

Now, that argument is gone. Sure, the app store is bigger than anything else, but the important apps come to all devices, as they have for a long time already.

The only reason why the app store is bigger, is because they have 2000 flash light apps, and so forth in that direction. I really don't see that as an advantage if I'm trying to find one.

The real deal-breaker for me was when my mom bought an iphone. Then, I knew I could never own one again. Being a Windows guy, Android is a generous slice of heaven compared to IOS.

Never Apple again, and it feels truely wonderful :)

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I wouldn't say the iPhone revolutionized the smartphone market. That's just a silly statement considering the iPhone at launch was slow, buggy, lacked features (offering less than the [then current] smartphones but costing just as much and more.) It did though open up a new market for consumers (one that originally was catering to the business crowd.) The iPhone was simplistic and easy to use, so that made it the most consumer friendly smartphone at the time. It's no wonder it made some serious bank, there's far more dumb people with spending problems than there are smart people in this world.

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Oh, the iPhone was a revolution. True, it was seriously lacking in features, compared to Symbian for example. You could even say it was not really a smartphone at first. But its cool interface, its sleek design, were beyond anything else at the time. This brought mainstream attention to smartphones, that's the true revolution.

And they were quick to make it more advanced. I recall being very impressed when they showed it running Super Monkey Ball on a keynote. That was a pretty high-end 3D arcade, back when people were still used to playing simple 2D Java games on the awful tiny blurry screens of their Nokia featurephones.

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it is obvious to anyone with a brain that microsoft has no culture

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